Wales v Australia, 5 November

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 31 Oct 2016, 6:52 am

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Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 9 Wales_11 Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 9 Austra10
WALES v AUSTRALIA  
5 November 2016
KO: 14:30 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on BBC Sports

Referee: Craig Joubert (South Africa)
Assistant Referees: Jérôme Garcès (France), Federico Anselmi (Argentina)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)

A. Head to Head

39 Played 39
10 Won 28
1 Drawn 1
28 Lost 10
596 Points 912

B. Recent Form

10 October 2015:
Twickenham Stadium
15 – 6 to Australia
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

8 November 2014:
Millennium Stadium
28 – 33 to Australia
2014 Autumn International

30 November 2013:
Millennium Stadium
26 – 30 to Australia
2013 Autumn International

1 December 2012:
Millennium Stadium
12 – 14 to Australia
2012 Autumn International

23 June 2012:
Sydney Football Stadium
20 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

16 June 2012:
Etihad Stadium
25 – 23 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

9 June 2012:
Suncorp Stadium
27 – 19 to Australia
Welsh Tour of Australia

3 December 2011:
Millennium Stadium
18 – 24 to Australia
2011 Autumn International

C. Teams


WALES 
Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 9 Dragon10
15 Leigh Halfpenny, 14 Alex Cuthbert, 13 Jonathan Davies, 12 Jamie Roberts, 11 George North, 10 Dan Biggar, 9 Rhys Webb, 8 Ross Moriarty, 7 Justin Tipuric, 6 Dan Lydiate, 5 Luke Charteris, 4 Bradley Davies, 3 Samson Le, 2 Ken Owens, 1 Gethin Jenkins

Replacements: 16 Scott Baldwin, 17 Nicky Smith, 18 Tomas Francis, 19 Cory Hill, 20 James King, 21 Gareth Davies, 22 Sam Davies, 23 Hallam Amos

AUSTRALIA  
Wales v Australia, 5 November - Page 9 Wallab10
15 Israel Folau, 14 Dane Haylett-Petty, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Reece Hodge, 11 Henry Speight, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Nick Phipps, 8 Lopeti Timani, 7 Michael Hooper, 6 David Pocock, 5 Adam Coleman, 4 Rory Arnold, 3 Sekope Kepu, 2 Stephen Moore (c), 1 Scott Sio

Replacements: 16 Tolu Latu, 17 James Slipper, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Rob Simmons, 20 Scott Fardy, 21 Nick Frisby, 22 Quade Cooper, 23 Sefa Naivalu


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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 2:53 pm

beshocked wrote:No 7 & 1/2 is a Lancaster apologist. Rarely has a bad thing to say about him.

Munkian of course it's embarrassing to be out of the pool stages but the good thing is England got rid of Lancaster and co. Just as Gatland and co should have been given the boot.

I was annoyed about losing to Wales and Australia but the more deserving sides won, you won fair and square. Bringing in decent coaches has worked so far too.

Short term suffering for long term gain.

Lancaster is still a very good coach. England were mugged v Wales. I dont think Eddie Jones is as good as people in England think he is. He reinvigorated an already pretty strong England side. Nearly every good coach in the last 10 years has won the 6 nations in their first year because teams do not know what to prepare for against them. Schmidt, Gatland, Howley and Lancaster and now Jones all did it in their first year in charge.

If Jones manages to lead to England to another 6N win this year Ill change my mind about him.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:13 pm

Luckless Pedestrian sometimes the obvious is ignored sadly.

Gunsgerms mugged vs Wales? It was a well deserved victory for Wales. England cannot be hard done by. We did not take our chances plus Wales had injuries too, they were playing with a patchwork backline by the end of the match. Have to be fair, can't even blame the ref.

Lancaster hasn't won a 6 nations. Of those coaches only Jones and Gatland have won a GS.

Also obviously Lancaster failed to take England out of the pool stages.

I am sure if Wales or Ireland did likewise the coach would be given their marching orders.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:19 pm

And of the GS coaches you consider one as ok and the other not as good as Schmidt. Funny old game.

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:25 pm

beshocked wrote:Luckless Pedestrian sometimes the obvious is ignored sadly.

Gunsgerms mugged vs Wales? It was a well deserved victory for Wales. England cannot be hard done by. We did not take our chances plus Wales had injuries too, they were playing with a patchwork backline by the end of the match. Have to be fair, can't even blame the ref.

Lancaster hasn't won a 6 nations.  Of those coaches only Jones and Gatland have won a GS.

Also obviously Lancaster failed to take England out of the pool stages.

I am sure if Wales or Ireland did likewise the coach would be given their marching orders.

It was a good win for Wales but England were in control for most of the match.

Grand slams arent everything. Some years are more competitive than others.

Yes Lancaster deserved to get the chop as did Eddie O'Sullivan and Declan Kidney before. None deserved the scrap heap though.

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And of the GS coaches you consider one as ok and the other not as good as Schmidt. Funny old game.

I think back to back six nations titles is a bigger achievement than a grand slam. It shows it wasn't a once off. Too much is made of slams anyway. I dont care if Ireland get the slam if they win the tournament.

Gatland was a good coach but is waining. For me the jury is still out on Jones but yes Schmidt is a better coach than both of them.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:30 pm

Disagree. A grandslam is indeed what everyone should strive for because it means you've beaten everyone.

England might have been control at some point but they lost in the end and Wales deserved the victory.

Wales must look to improve.

Ireland won 8/10 just like Lancaster's 8/10 - just because you won on points difference does not really mean that much.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:31 pm

Hey, I'd take several things into account and it was a great achievement. Lancaster's overall record ain't too shabby when you look at it. I like Schmidt, obviously at slightly earlier stage in his international career than both, but think he'll get the NZ job one day.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:32 pm

A slam is worth more imo although I'd prefer to beat the SH sides on a regular basis. I guess they generally go hand in hand when a side is dominant, unless you're Wales....Wink

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:32 pm

So why rate one GS coach as ok and the other below Scmidt?

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:34 pm

beshocked wrote:Disagree. A grandslam is indeed what everyone should strive for because it means you've beaten everyone.

England might have been control at some point but they lost in the end and Wales deserved the victory.

Wales must look to improve.

Wales did deserve the win but for England it wasnt the end of the world. It is the same thing for Ireland in the WC. The reaction to the Argentina loss was ridiculous. They got it wrong in a game, big deal. It doesnt magically undo all the good work you have done. You learn from it and improve.

Its just my opinion on the GS. With away and home fixtures if you lose one game and still win the championship you are still the best team in it IMO.

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So why rate one GS coach as ok and the other below Scmidt?

Gatland is only ok now because Wales have been poor. He used to be better but the game has moved on and he hasnt. Im judging him as a coach now compared to his peers now. Wales havent won a championship in a few years and the GS in 2012. Thats not that recent. Wales have been on the decline since then and thats his responsibility.

As for Jones yes England were great in the last 6N but that isnt enough time to judge him. Declan Kidney won a GS in '09 and hen the team went on the slide every year after. Schmidt has been with Ireland since 2012 and he has broken all coaching records with Ireland in that time.

A lot will be revealed re Jones after the England SA game and in next years 6N.


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Post by munkian on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:40 pm

Well, obviously, but if you get a GS then its more of an achievement.

But then I'd probably try and dismiss it if my team had won fupp all of them too Smile
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:41 pm

Sorry directed to beshocked, he holds the GS in such high regard, the holy grail yet doesn't seem to rate the 2 coaches who have accomplished it.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:47 pm

no 7 & 1/2 when did I rate Jones as merely okay? I said he was good.

Schmidt has been doing better than Gatland currently.

You cannot rest on your laurels, Gatland's last GS was in 2012.

Gunsgerms easy for an Irish fan to say it wasn't the end of the world. You did not go out of the RWC in the pool stages in your own RWC. Lancaster didn't learn, that was one of his biggest problems. Too many near misses for it to be bad luck.

I thought that in 2013-15, there were a few teams equal, in 2012 and 2016 there was one team clearly ahead of the rest.

Winning on points difference is not the same as outright victory.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:48 pm

You said he was only decent, you're upgrading now.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:50 pm

Yeah I was thinking England are clearly ahead of the rest when I was wtaching Wales come back strongly and nearly win it in the last ten min with us down to 14...

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:54 pm

munkian wrote:Well, obviously, but if you get a GS then its more of an achievement.

But then I'd probably try and dismiss it if my team had won fupp all of them too Smile

Maybe you would but it is not about that for me. In any case by your logic then surely a coach winning back to back six nations with a team that has only won a handful of championships is a greater achievement that a coach winning a GS with a team that has won lots of GSs? Check mate Very Happy ?


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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:54 pm

I didn't say only decent,  I said he's been decent when I say decent I mean good.

For your knowledge.

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/decent

I do not mean it in a negative manner. It's not upgrading. You are merely trying to criticise me.


The GS is indeed an impressive accomplishment and Gatland has done well to do so twice but that was in 2008 and 2012.

A semi final in 2011 RWC was also impressive but it is 2016. Wales have gone from the best side in the NH to 3rd best.

Still could be worse I guess but Wales  would think would want to improve.


Do you honestly think that Wales are currently on par with England? Seriously? Come on no 7 & 1/2 that's deluded....

In 2012 Wales did not win by much either but it was enough for Wales to become the best side in the NH.


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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:56 pm

beshocked wrote:no 7 & 1/2 when did I rate Jones as merely okay? I said he was good.

Schmidt has been doing better than Gatland currently.

You cannot rest on your laurels, Gatland's last GS was in 2012.

Gunsgerms easy for an Irish fan to say it wasn't the end of the world. You did not go out of the RWC in the pool stages in your own RWC. Lancaster didn't learn, that was one of his biggest problems. Too many near misses for it to be bad luck.

I thought that in 2013-15, there were a few teams equal, in 2012 and 2016 there was one team clearly ahead of the rest.

Winning on points difference is not the same as outright victory.

Maybe not but we got thrashed in the quarterfinals by Argentina, a team we whitewashed in the same year in a tour to Argentina. I also didnt think that was the end of the world.

England were never going to win that world cup anyway.

You get nothing extra for a grand slam so your wrong. Winning the championship you get the trophy and the glory regardless if its on points.


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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:58 pm

Ah, decent is of an acceptable standard, unless you're talking about him as a person rather than as a coach?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:59 pm

beshocked comes from a place where only wins are acceptable for England and can't or won't make a judgment based on anything other than the win column. You get used to it.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 4:03 pm

Personally, I'd take that one victory over the All Blacks over two Slams....and I'm serious.  Beating the Best is the top prize for me. It isn't easy and it's very very rare, but that should be the ultimate goal of any Nation. Everything should be geared towards constructing a team with the ability to beat the best.  
6N is a great competition in its own right, and boy does it get the passions going.  But it's also a competition that is cagey and often happens when sides are thinking about other things.  Players can often be thinking of club games down the line.  Teams can often be thinking about Summer tours to big hitting SH sides.  The weather can be awful.  The rugby can be dire.  The fans can often be demanding that lesser players are given a run-out to see what we have in the tank before meeting those big hitting SH sides. There are so many variants these days that have made the 6N almost an experimental competition - a time when coaches can see what they have and test out positions and partnerships.
So 6N, great competition; grew up watching it, learned to love rugby through it - but that one single isolated win against the Best side in the World still beats a Slam in my mind.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 4:09 pm

Argentina in the RWC were an impressive beast. They even caused NZ some problems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34295464

England might not have been able to win it but a semi final was possible.

Well actually I disagree. You say you get nothing extra from a GS, it means you have beaten everyone. Why do you think grandslam and a 6 nations win are differentiated? - it's because it matters.

no 7 & 1/2 when I say decent I mean he's been good, he's done well.

Not true, Saracens have lost this season but because the games they've lost have been largely irrelevant, the losses do not matter much.

To be honest if England were to lose one game in the AIs, the one that would upset me the least would be Australia.

Improvement is important to me. Under Lancaster, England did not improve, under Jones they have.

I am sure Welsh fans would want Wales to improve but with Gatland in charge they haven't.

A GS for Ireland is very rare indeed. Only 2 in their history - 1948 and 2009. Even Scotland have won more....

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 4:41 pm

beshocked wrote:Argentina in the RWC were an impressive beast. They even caused NZ some problems.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/34295464

England might not have been able to win it but a semi final was possible.

Well actually I disagree. You say you get nothing extra from a GS, it means you have beaten everyone. Why do you think grandslam and a 6 nations win are differentiated? - it's because it matters.

no 7 & 1/2 when I say decent I mean he's been good, he's done well.

Not true, Saracens have lost this season but because the games they've lost have been largely irrelevant, the losses do not matter much.

To be honest if England were to lose one game in the AIs, the one that would upset me the least would be Australia.

Improvement is important to me. Under Lancaster, England did not improve, under Jones they have.

I am sure Welsh fans would want Wales to improve but with Gatland in charge they haven't.

A GS for Ireland is very rare indeed. Only 2 in their history - 1948 and 2009. Even Scotland have won more....

They arent differentiated. You dont get an extra trophy nor extra prize money for a GS. It is a media creation. Before 1957 no one even commented on it.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 4:49 pm

http://www.cityam.com/234265/england-six-nations-payments-revealed-players-to-share-600000-bonus-for-winning-grand-slam

Well the players got more for winning a GS.....

Might have been a media creation but winning a GS is a big deal.

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 4:57 pm

That's an internal incentive and utterly meaningless to all other teams. It might be a big deal but winning the championship for me is the most important thing, anything after that being a bonus only including the triple crown.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 5:03 pm

Of course it would be to a team that has struggled utterly in both acquiring a GS or triple crown. Neither since 2009.

Winning a tournament by a small points difference doesn't really make you better. Winning all your games would though.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 5:05 pm

I meant you struggle or can't differentiate performance from result.

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Post by GunsGerms on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 5:12 pm

beshocked wrote:Of course it would be to a team that has struggled utterly in both acquiring a GS or triple crown. Neither since 2009.

Winning a tournament by a small points difference doesn't really make you better. Winning all your games would though.

Again by your logic surely Schmidt winning two championships for a team that rarely wins championships is more impressive than Jones picking up 1 GS for a team that has won lots of them. You just slam dunked against yourself.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 5:42 pm

Winning a tournament by points difference is not the same as winning it outright IMO. You can agree to disagree.

Well no because Schmidt didn't win a triple crown or GS in 2014/15.

I do think the GS of Eddie Jones is more impressive than Schmidt's 4 wins out of 5 because he managed to win every game.

Lancaster in the 6 nations won 4/5, 4 6 nations in a row but I don't hear people praising him for that.

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Post by doctor_grey on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 6:25 pm

SecretFly wrote:Personally, I'd take that one victory over the All Blacks over two Slams....and I'm serious.  Beating the Best is the top prize for me.  It isn't easy and it's very very rare, but that should be the ultimate goal of any Nation.  Everything should be geared towards constructing a team with the ability to beat the best.  
I just realized that, statistically speaking, with Ireland's current win rate v. All Blacks, a 30 year old Ireland fan will be 141 years old for the next win over New Zealand.

On the other hand, given the flexible and morally ambiguous way hard and fast numbers and statistics can be interpreted, Ireland haven't lost to the All Blacks in two years......

And I will be proven correct when they play each other again in two weeks.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 6:50 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Personally, I'd take that one victory over the All Blacks over two Slams....and I'm serious.  Beating the Best is the top prize for me.  It isn't easy and it's very very rare, but that should be the ultimate goal of any Nation.  Everything should be geared towards constructing a team with the ability to beat the best.  
I just realized that, statistically speaking, with Ireland's current win rate v. All Blacks, a 30 year old Ireland fan will be 141 years old for the next win over New Zealand.  

On the other hand, given the flexible and morally ambiguous way hard and fast numbers and statistics can be interpreted, Ireland haven't lost to the All Blacks in two years......

And I will be proven correct when they play each other again in two weeks.  

Unfortunately, I'll be older than that, doc.  The Six Nations, however, will have morphed by then into The Fifty Nations (to placate those who wanted a fully inclusive 'European' Championship.)  It'll take place over a three year period with only a two day break for Non-Christmas Day and the X Factor Grand Final.  
And it'll be broken into a Gay 50, a BI 50, a Black 50, a Transgender 50, a Fluid 50, a Quota 50 (an equal number of men and women on the one 15 personages team!) and I'm sure in 141 year's time, paedophiles will have broken down the 'intolerance' barriers and have a sub 50 championship of their own too.  
I think a Slam will be worth something then.... to every human person or persbeing.

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Post by doctor_grey on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 6:57 pm

SecretFly wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Personally, I'd take that one victory over the All Blacks over two Slams....and I'm serious.  Beating the Best is the top prize for me.  It isn't easy and it's very very rare, but that should be the ultimate goal of any Nation.  Everything should be geared towards constructing a team with the ability to beat the best.  
I just realized that, statistically speaking, with Ireland's current win rate v. All Blacks, a 30 year old Ireland fan will be 141 years old for the next win over New Zealand.  

On the other hand, given the flexible and morally ambiguous way hard and fast numbers and statistics can be interpreted, Ireland haven't lost to the All Blacks in two years......

And I will be proven correct when they play each other again in two weeks.  

Unfortunately, I'll be older than that, doc.  The Six Nations, however, will have morphed by then into The Fifty Nations (to placate those who wanted a fully inclusive 'European' Championship.)  It'll take place over a three year period with only a two day break for Non-Christmas Day and the X Factor Grand Final.  
And it'll be broken into a Gay 50, a BI 50, a Black 50, a Transgender 50, a Fluid 50, a Quota 50 (an equal number of men and women on the one 15 personages team!) and I'm sure in 141 year's time, paedophiles will have broken down the 'intolerance' barriers and have a sub 50 championship of their own too.  
I think a Slam will be worth something then.... to every human person or persbeing.
Well, that will give a different meaning to being on the bottom of a ruck......

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Post by Gwlad on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 2:51 am

I honestly think Gatland needs to go asap but of course we know he always does enough to stay in place.

He is not committed to Wales and sees it as a part time job. And in his stead, in Howler we have a guy who can't coach for toffee. The fact he won the 2013 6 Nations allowed the WRU to give Gats the 2nd sabbatical I guess. Beating England at RWC 2015 was enough to keep Gats in the job until 2019. One wonders if he would have got the sack if he'd failed….i doubt it.

Events have conspired against Welsh rugby.

Gatland is now untouchable until RWC 2019 - you have to admire how he has stacked it up. He holds hostage the hopes of Wales against his own ambitions. He'll return from the Lions to coach Wales until RWC 2019. Wales are careering backwards, coaching isn't fit for purpose.

All we can pray for now is that Howley loses this weekend or is deemed to fail badly either during the autumn or 6 Nations. He has already been made a laughing stock; last week we were listening to aspirations to get into the Top 4 now we are praying to stay in the top 8. It sounds unbelievable to admit to but i really think we need a tactical defeat for a strategic win. If he does fail i hope he or Edwards will be fired and Gats will be forced to accept changes for the remainder of his tenure.

Whats most worrying though is that I think he may fail and stay. And if so you know that the WRU have been partly responsible sending Welsh rugby into decline.

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 5:18 am

Gatland has boxed clever this time and totally and has on the face of it at least distanced himself from the Welsh set up.

We've been told that this time round Howley is head coach as opposed to interim and it is his side etc etc, so when we lose all autumn games and get the wooden spoon in the 6 Nations Gatland can say well it was nothing to do with me.

I'm not convinced that if we do lose remaining games and get the wooden spoon that the idiots at the Union would even sack Howley then.

Would they admit their mistake and pay him a small fortune in compo, I don't think they would.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 8:55 am

Gatland go ASAP? We need him back for the weekend's game!

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 9:47 am

Are ranking points a concern for Wales again? When are the next RWC seedings finalised? Wales are within a whisker of 9th position now and playing dreadfully badly.

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Post by munkian on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:13 am

GunsGerms wrote:Are ranking points a concern for Wales again? When are the next RWC seedings finalised? Wales are within a whisker of 9th position now and playing dreadfully badly.

One bad game in the first game of the AIs - Ireland's unexpected win has upset the rankings somewhat, lets see where we all are come December eh ?

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:20 am

munkian wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Are ranking points a concern for Wales again? When are the next RWC seedings finalised? Wales are within a whisker of 9th position now and playing dreadfully badly.

One bad game in the first game of the AIs - Ireland's  unexpected win has upset the rankings somewhat, lets see where we all are come December eh ?


Irelands win didnt have that much impact on the rankings really. 2 point rise for Ireland and 2 point drop for NZ. Only Ireland moved up 1 place. Wales losing at home by a large margin had much more an impact and Argentina winning v Japan too.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:55 am

GunsGerms wrote:
munkian wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Are ranking points a concern for Wales again? When are the next RWC seedings finalised? Wales are within a whisker of 9th position now and playing dreadfully badly.

One bad game in the first game of the AIs - Ireland's  unexpected win has upset the rankings somewhat, lets see where we all are come December eh ?


Irelands win didnt have that much impact on the rankings really. 2 point rise for Ireland and 2 point drop for NZ. Only Ireland moved up 1 place. Wales losing at home by a large margin had much more an impact and Argentina winning v Japan too.
Wales lost fewer points than Ireland gained though. Ireland's freakish result helped their ranking a lot too.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:57 am

Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
munkian wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Are ranking points a concern for Wales again? When are the next RWC seedings finalised? Wales are within a whisker of 9th position now and playing dreadfully badly.

One bad game in the first game of the AIs - Ireland's  unexpected win has upset the rankings somewhat, lets see where we all are come December eh ?


Irelands win didnt have that much impact on the rankings really. 2 point rise for Ireland and 2 point drop for NZ. Only Ireland moved up 1 place. Wales losing at home by a large margin had much more an impact and Argentina winning v Japan too.
Wales lost fewer points than Ireland gained though. Ireland's freakish result helped their ranking a lot too.

And helped England too up there in 2nd trying to gun down those ABs up there above them. Every little bit counts in the circus of numbers that are the rankings....

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Post by Cyril on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:01 am

SecretFly wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
munkian wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Are ranking points a concern for Wales again? When are the next RWC seedings finalised? Wales are within a whisker of 9th position now and playing dreadfully badly.

One bad game in the first game of the AIs - Ireland's  unexpected win has upset the rankings somewhat, lets see where we all are come December eh ?


Irelands win didnt have that much impact on the rankings really. 2 point rise for Ireland and 2 point drop for NZ. Only Ireland moved up 1 place. Wales losing at home by a large margin had much more an impact and Argentina winning v Japan too.
Wales lost fewer points than Ireland gained though. Ireland's freakish result helped their ranking a lot too.

And helped England too up there in 2nd trying to gun down those ABs up there above them.  Every little bit counts in the circus of numbers that are the rankings....
Indeed Smile Given that NZ have dodged England this year it's up to the rest of you to beat them. Shame Ireland couldn't have got the 15+ win.

England could easily be World No.1 by the end of the A1s the way NZ are playing.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:06 am

Cyril wrote:

England could easily be World No.1 by the end of the A1s the way NZ are playing.

Jesus Cyril, you never take a break OK

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Post by munkian on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:21 am

As good as ireland were, and they were very good, NZ were uncharacteristically bad (for them)
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:26 am

They weren't allowed to be good.  Ireland could easily have lost that game by a bucket load.  Look how quickly and slickly the ABs scored their three second half hits.  They had the tools.
Ireland simply pressured them too much for 80 to give them the platform to do that through a whole game.  Their rhythm wasn't given an opportunity to develop.  That's a team not being let play, not a team playing badly.

But there you go, already the revisionism begins Wink

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:32 am

The last two times NZ have lost to NH opposition their kicker had a bad day with a boot and they made some very uncharacteristic errors. Both NH teams gained a big lead early on in each match, then at some point in the 2nd half NZ went on a major burst and scored 3/4 tries - only for the NH opposition to get one back near the end thus sealing the game. The only thing people will remember from this is that England beat NZ in 2012 and Ireland beat NZ in 2016.

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:44 am

munkian wrote:As good as ireland were, and they were very good, NZ were uncharacteristically bad (for them)

Hahaha. There's always one.

It was a fairly typical game for NZ. Slow to get going in the first half and try to completely blitz teams in the second half with their subs and an increase in intensity.

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:49 am

mikey_dragon wrote:The last two times NZ have lost to NH opposition their kicker had a bad day with a boot and they made some very uncharacteristic errors. Both NH teams gained a big lead early on in each match, then at some point in the 2nd half NZ went on a major burst and scored 3/4 tries - only for the NH opposition to get one back near the end thus sealing the game. The only thing people will remember from this is that England beat NZ in 2012 and Ireland beat NZ in 2016.

Beauden Barret had one of his best days this year with his boot v Ireland. He is statistically the worst goal kicker in international rugby this year but the second best in the Autumn Internationals based on his performance against Ireland:

http://goalkickers.co.za/

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:50 am

The reason Australia beat Wales on Saturday was because ( A ) Australia was the better team by far. and
( B ) Wales made Australia look better than they was. ok.


But in all honesty the way Wales played on saturday was the worst i have seen them play for a very long time.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:54 am

GunsGerms wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:The last two times NZ have lost to NH opposition their kicker had a bad day with a boot and they made some very uncharacteristic errors. Both NH teams gained a big lead early on in each match, then at some point in the 2nd half NZ went on a major burst and scored 3/4 tries - only for the NH opposition to get one back near the end thus sealing the game. The only thing people will remember from this is that England beat NZ in 2012 and Ireland beat NZ in 2016.

Beauden Barret had one of his best days this year with his boot v Ireland. He is statistically the worst goal kicker in international rugby this year but the second best in the Autumn Internationals based on his performance against Ireland:

http://goalkickers.co.za/

Interesting - but without seeing the match I hear had a bad day. I know he missed one conversion for definite, did he miss many penalty kicks at goal?

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