Eng in India
+23
ChequeredJersey
LivinginItaly
jimbohammers
dummy_half
wisden
sirfredperry
Corporalhumblebucket
JDizzle
Hammersmith harrier
king_carlos
GSC
Mad for Chelsea
dyrewolfe
guildfordbat
Good Golly I'm Olly
CaledonianCraig
Jetty
SimonofSurrey
alfie
msp83
VTR
Gooseberry
KP_fan
27 posters
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
Page 5 of 20
Page 5 of 20 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 ... 20
Eng in India
First topic message reminder :
Nov 09, Wed - Nov 13, Sun
India vs England, 1st Test
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot
Nov 17, Thu - Nov 21, Mon
India vs England, 2nd Test
Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium, Visakhapatnam
Nov 26, Sat - Nov 30, Wed
India vs England, 3rd Test
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali
Dec 08, Thu - Dec 12, Mon
India vs England, 4th Test
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai
Dec 16, Fri - Dec 20, Tue
India vs England, 5th Test
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai
Jan 15, Sun
India vs England, 1st ODI
Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Pune
Jan 19, Thu
India vs England, 2nd ODI
Barabati Stadium, Cuttack
Jan 22, Sun
India vs England, 3rd ODI
Eden Gardens, Kolkata
Jan 26, Thu
India vs England, 1st T20I
Green Park, Kanpur
Jan 29, Sun
India vs England, 2nd T20I
Vidarbha Cricket Association Ground, Nagpur
Feb 01, Wed
India vs England, 3rd T20I
M.Chinnaswamy Stadium, Bengaluru
England tour of India, 2016-17
Nov 09, Wed - Nov 13, Sun
India vs England, 1st Test
Saurashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Rajkot
Nov 17, Thu - Nov 21, Mon
India vs England, 2nd Test
Dr. Y.S. Rajasekhara Reddy ACA-VDCA Cricket Stadium, Visakhapatnam
Nov 26, Sat - Nov 30, Wed
India vs England, 3rd Test
Punjab Cricket Association Stadium, Mohali
Dec 08, Thu - Dec 12, Mon
India vs England, 4th Test
Wankhede Stadium, Mumbai
Dec 16, Fri - Dec 20, Tue
India vs England, 5th Test
MA Chidambaram Stadium, Chennai
Jan 15, Sun
India vs England, 1st ODI
Maharashtra Cricket Association Stadium, Pune
Jan 19, Thu
India vs England, 2nd ODI
Barabati Stadium, Cuttack
Jan 22, Sun
India vs England, 3rd ODI
Eden Gardens, Kolkata
Jan 26, Thu
India vs England, 1st T20I
Green Park, Kanpur
Jan 29, Sun
India vs England, 2nd T20I
Vidarbha Cricket Association Ground, Nagpur
Feb 01, Wed
India vs England, 3rd T20I
M.Chinnaswamy Stadium, Bengaluru
Last edited by KP_fan on Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Was pretty impressed with Hameed in his first outing itself. He has reinforced that with a better effort in the 2nd innings. And he even hit a 6! The general refrain here and elsewhere from England supporters and those who know the domestic game by and large has been that he's more of a blocker, who would strike in the late 30s and put a big price on his wicket. He isn't the flashy, strokeplaying opener who takes the attack to the bowler right away, but he can play his shots and move along at a decent enough clip, by the initial looks . Much greater challenges are to be faced, and no way can we say he's the real deal yet. But there certainly is something to work with, and clearly worth a good run in the side.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Think India should preserve Ashwin, Jadeja and Shami in particular. They are the real deals on test pitches. Umesh is rightly there, but hasn't done enough yet to make the position his...... Bhuvneshwar is playing the coming Ranji round along with KL Rahul. Hope they prove their match fitness and be back in the test side soon. A few wickets and a good innings or 2 with the bat would be even better for both of them as that would give them the confidence straight away.
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
CaledonianCraig wrote:guildfordbat wrote:Good of you to show up, Craig - Alfie grassed on you being too busy with the tennis when you should have been here doing your road maps!
Unless the wicket starts to misbehave on the last day and gives real encouragement to the spinners, I've no issue with Cook looking for England to bat out the day.
Whilst that may seem very negative and disappointing, we need to keep in mind this is a 5 match series condensed into an extremely small time period.
India actually batted slightly longer in the first innings than England. Our guys sent down 162 overs. As I've often said, Test match bowling is hard work and so it should be. If there is a small chance of us forcing the win, it's only right that our bowlers be stretched tomorrow. However, if there is considered to be no realistic chance of victory, I would leave the bowlers with their feet up for as long as possible. As regards momentum, I'm inclined to think that's already slightly with England barring any last day screw up.
Just for you guildfordbat here is my roadmaps for tomorrow.
England will look to score quickly tomorrow and can now afford to throw the bat at plenty of balls. By lunch they'd hope to be around 275 runs ahead with 3 or 4 wickets down. A quick dart after lunch to build the lead up to 300 and declare giving them around half a day to inflict mental scars. I can't see it being enough to win the test but if they can reduce India to around 100 for 5 it will be a psychological blow they can take, along with momentum, into the next test.
India obviously will look for their own little victories. They'd hope to get early wickets quickly and reach lunch about 230 behind with 6 or seven English wickets down. They'd hope to bowl England out with no more than 260 to chase in about 45 overs. If they can bat through to close and get the draw with 150 on the board with just a wicket or two down they'd feel they had the momentum going into the next test.
Craig - thanks for the personal service.
In line with my earlier post and the recent one from MfC, I think it all depends upon whether the wicket deteriorates. If it doesn't noticeably do so, I'll settle for us batting on.
I note several comments about us gaining momentum from taking a few Indian wickets. True but we could also gain momentum (and not tire our bowlers) with another fine batting display. How about a 200+ opening stand with tons for the skipper and teenage debutant? That would rattle the hosts' cage! An unbeaten 30 or 40 later in the day for Duckett would be handy too - he's the one England player who hasn't really figured so far in this match.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Eng in India
Impressive batting by Hameed. Very encouraging that England have the upper hand in an almost certainly drawn match. This playing surface may have offered England's best chance of winning a match in the series. But, assuming a draw, England will have certainly gained confidence by showing they can be competitive.
Corporalhumblebucket- Posts : 7413
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Day's march from Surrey
Re: Eng in India
Hmm no I think racking up runs does wear down the Indian bowlers but that is about it. To me that method shows a lack of belief/confidence that you can get a result and hands a moral victory to India. Bat and score quickly and declare(demoralises the bowlers and shows no fear and then inflict mental scars on some of the openers in the Indian line-up. More to be gained that way in my opinion.
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 55
Location : Edinburgh
Re: Eng in India
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Hmm no I think racking up runs does wear down the Indian bowlers but that is about it. To me that method shows a lack of belief/confidence that you can get a result and hands a moral victory to India. Bat and score quickly and declare(demoralises the bowlers and shows no fear and then inflict mental scars on some of the openers in the Indian line-up. More to be gained that way in my opinion.
Craig - ''It is a game of opinions'' as Alec Stewart has said to me more than once. A bit of blatant name dropping there, particularly for the Corporal who is looking in and always likes and expects it from me!
I do understand where you are coming from and am most certainly not dismissive of it. I just place emphasis differently.
Rightly or wrongly, my own thinking is being considerably influenced by the other battles our bowlers will inevitably have to go through in the rest of this (ridiculously per MfC) condensed series. If we have a realistic chance of a win tomorrow, I'll strongly say, ''go for it and b*gg*r what may happen later on''. However, if it's decided a moral victory is the most our bowlers can achieve (and that's the way it seems to be looking), I would leave them to rest as long as possible. Although definitely not to be sneered at, a moral victory for our bowlers will not put us 1-0 up and may increase the need for some of them to miss later Tests. It's also hard for us to judge from here the effect of the heat there plus that recently in Bangladesh - I would guess though that's another factor pointing towards ''have a blow, lads''.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Eng in India
guildfordbat wrote:
Craig - ''It is a game of opinions'' as Alec Stewart has said to me more than once. A bit of blatant name dropping there, particularly for the Corporal who is looking in and always likes and expects it from me!
Alec Stewart is of course a man of infinite wisdom and sagacity (apart from his support for Chelsea)
Corporalhumblebucket- Posts : 7413
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Day's march from Surrey
Re: Eng in India
Unless the pitch has turned into a minefield overnight, grind them into the dirt all day.
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
- Posts : 51021
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 28
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe
Re: Eng in India
Corporalhumblebucket wrote:guildfordbat wrote:
Craig - ''It is a game of opinions'' as Alec Stewart has said to me more than once. A bit of blatant name dropping there, particularly for the Corporal who is looking in and always likes and expects it from me!
Alec Stewart is of course a man of infinite wisdom and sagacity (apart fromas shown by his support for Chelsea)
Fixed that for you
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 36
Re: Eng in India
Anyways I don't think things like momentum are that important. Particularly with a side like England who usually find ways to follow a good test up with a not so good one. It will be a different pitch, different challenge, and if the ball starts doing things from the outset and if the spinners are on song, England would find their old doubts returning rather quickly.
However, there is defenit benefit in keeping the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja bowling as much as possible, as Guildford said, test match bowling is difficult, and there is not a great deal of time to recover for the 2nd test. Rather than a matter of psychology, think it is a matter of physiology....... It would be psychology if say a young Hameed manage to get a hundred. He would be reassured that he belongs at this level, and that he can take on the challenges that would certainly come his way in a far more positive mindset. So if you have a score under the belt, it helps your confidence. If you manage to take wickets it helps your confidence. So it is confidence for individuals, rather than momentum for the team.......
However, there is defenit benefit in keeping the likes of Ashwin and Jadeja bowling as much as possible, as Guildford said, test match bowling is difficult, and there is not a great deal of time to recover for the 2nd test. Rather than a matter of psychology, think it is a matter of physiology....... It would be psychology if say a young Hameed manage to get a hundred. He would be reassured that he belongs at this level, and that he can take on the challenges that would certainly come his way in a far more positive mindset. So if you have a score under the belt, it helps your confidence. If you manage to take wickets it helps your confidence. So it is confidence for individuals, rather than momentum for the team.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Not just a case of keeping them bowling but also saving us from bowling.
Broad and Woakes will struggle with their loads over a 5 match series if stokes' injury continues to need maintenance
Broad and Woakes will struggle with their loads over a 5 match series if stokes' injury continues to need maintenance
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
Yeah, it might be worth having 25/30 overs at India if possible (with the ball kept out of the seamers hands), just to give the spinners more match practice bowling at the Indians. But I would not be too fussed if they just batted pretty much all day, touch wood...
JDizzle- Posts : 6862
Join date : 2011-03-11
Re: Eng in India
Mad for Chelsea wrote:Corporalhumblebucket wrote:guildfordbat wrote:
Craig - ''It is a game of opinions'' as Alec Stewart has said to me more than once. A bit of blatant name dropping there, particularly for the Corporal who is looking in and always likes and expects it from me!
Alec Stewart is of course a man of infinite wisdom and sagacity (apart fromas shown by his support for Chelsea)
Fixed that for you
Corporalhumblebucket- Posts : 7413
Join date : 2011-03-05
Location : Day's march from Surrey
Re: Eng in India
Englands top 4 need time in the middle together a lot more than the spinners need time bowling.
Chances are england will be all out or close after tea and have to bowl anyway. Talking of a "competitve" declaration is getting a bit ahead of the game. They arent going to score quickly
Chances are england will be all out or close after tea and have to bowl anyway. Talking of a "competitve" declaration is getting a bit ahead of the game. They arent going to score quickly
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
I think id probably just keep batting if I were Cook. Play the long game, having the fresher bowlers can definitely make a difference come series end.
GSC- Posts : 42843
Join date : 2011-03-28
Age : 32
Location : Leicester
Re: Eng in India
Stokes at 4, a couple of wickets to Mishra. Seems England working to a plan here. Think they might put India in at some point today. And they might give away a wicket or 2 more to Mishra so that he's picked for the next test too!
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Seriously good stuff from England. They set a target of 310 and has chipped out Gambhir straight away!
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
England will be claiming moral victory then. India have already given up hope of the chase it seems
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
Rashid bowling beautifully again so far
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
- Posts : 51021
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 28
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe
Re: Eng in India
So India 2 down at tea, as a terrible call from Dharmasena that was horrendously not reviewed send Pujara back LBW to Rashid for 18.
At 49-2, there is some pressure on the Indians.......
At 49-2, there is some pressure on the Indians.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Gooseberry wrote:England will be claiming moral victory then. India have already given up hope of the chase it seems
Well given that England set them over 300, they probably decided to play it safe and "live to fight another day", rather than risk heading into the second test 1-0 down.
Anyway, great to see the skip finally make a ton. Brilliant support from Hameed...have England finally found the second opener they have so sorely needed?
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe
Re: Eng in India
Well well well...
Rashid with a second wicket, getting Vijay for 31. Moeen follows up, bowling Rahane for just 1.
India having a bit of a wobble at 71-4.
Probably up to Kohli to prevent a collapse, but the pitch is suddenly looking quite lively. Can England force a result here?
Rashid with a second wicket, getting Vijay for 31. Moeen follows up, bowling Rahane for just 1.
India having a bit of a wobble at 71-4.
Probably up to Kohli to prevent a collapse, but the pitch is suddenly looking quite lively. Can England force a result here?
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe
Re: Eng in India
I hate to agree with Botham but he's right imo about Ashwin deliberately padding Moeen away and not playing a shot. Could have had him a couple of times.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Eng in India
Looking ahead to the next game - only one change I'd make to the side would be Batty for Ansari. Ansari has been "ok" (tooshort too often for me), but I think Batty would offer a bit more of a threat and nous.
Don't see how Anderson comes in unless you rest either Woakes/Broad - pitch in Wizag is meant to be like those in Bangladesh
Don't see how Anderson comes in unless you rest either Woakes/Broad - pitch in Wizag is meant to be like those in Bangladesh
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
- Posts : 51021
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 28
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe
Re: Eng in India
And as I say that Zaf gets Ashwin!
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
- Posts : 51021
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 28
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe
Re: Eng in India
Ashwin gets cocky after thumping a few boundaries and is caught by Root off Ansari for 32. India 118-5.
England running out of overs though...
If only England had declared 10 overs earlier, a result might have been on the cards.
England running out of overs though...
If only England had declared 10 overs earlier, a result might have been on the cards.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe
Re: Eng in India
dyrewolfe wrote:Ashwin gets cocky after thumping a few boundaries and is caught by Root off Ansari for 32. India 118-5.
England running out of overs though...
If only England had declared 10 overs earlier, a result might have been on the cards.
It's not guaranteed to work like that though, dyre. Yes, an extra 10 overs added on to the end would have been extremely handy for England. However, there's no certainty that India would have been in the same pickle if they had started their 2nd dig that much earlier.
I normally much favour low scoring Test matches but I really enjoyed this one. A lot of quality and massive effort shown by both sides. Only lacked decent catching.
Certainly a moral victory for England but whether that sets a trend remains to be seen.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Eng in India
Well I did say might guildford.
I disagree about the match though. Pitch was far too flat and made for extremely boring periods where nothing happened. Didn't really start to give the bowlers any help until the last day, by which time a result was highly unlikely.
Guess I'm not a fan of "old fashioned" test cricket.
On the plus side England played as well as the conditions allowed on all fronts. Bowling got a bit loose at times and perhaps the fielding could have been a bit sharper, but nothing to really worry about.
If the hosts have some better pitches prepared for the following tests, I'd fancy us to win.
I disagree about the match though. Pitch was far too flat and made for extremely boring periods where nothing happened. Didn't really start to give the bowlers any help until the last day, by which time a result was highly unlikely.
Guess I'm not a fan of "old fashioned" test cricket.
On the plus side England played as well as the conditions allowed on all fronts. Bowling got a bit loose at times and perhaps the fielding could have been a bit sharper, but nothing to really worry about.
If the hosts have some better pitches prepared for the following tests, I'd fancy us to win.
dyrewolfe- Posts : 6974
Join date : 2011-03-13
Location : Restaurant at the end of the Universe
Re: Eng in India
I'd say England can take more from the match than India. I say that for the following reasons:-
Pre-series all the talk was of an India whitewash and that has been clearly nipped in the bud as it was England that were the only team who looked in with a chance of winning after four days.
England have strived for so long for an opening partner for Cook and although it is early days Hamed looks like he could be the way forward.
Four England batsmen scored a century to bolster their confidence and there were no batting collapses.
The spinners gained confidence getting the majority of the wickets and bowled for long spells allowing them to get into a nice rhythm
Pre-series all the talk was of an India whitewash and that has been clearly nipped in the bud as it was England that were the only team who looked in with a chance of winning after four days.
England have strived for so long for an opening partner for Cook and although it is early days Hamed looks like he could be the way forward.
Four England batsmen scored a century to bolster their confidence and there were no batting collapses.
The spinners gained confidence getting the majority of the wickets and bowled for long spells allowing them to get into a nice rhythm
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 55
Location : Edinburgh
Re: Eng in India
-- I have always maintained that there are no moral winners...but Eng defnitely came out on top.....with all boxes checked......batters scored runs, spinners picked wicket...got India under pressure and themselves into a winning poisiton....
--many will say Eng declared too late...probably right....but you can understand they wanted absolute safety and a draw, putting India under pressure still far exceeds their own and everyone's expectations...
WIN would have been great...
anotehr blessing in disguise would have been had Eng been bowled out with a lead of 230ish and had been forced to bowl more overs at India......game might have been tight but Eng was likely to win.
--India.....what could they do more or better ?
a) should first applaud the resolve of English batters...
b) must go back and look at the bowling of their spin bowlers....what is unpardonable is their inability to pick Eng's wickets on D4 and D5.
c) Get out of the mindset , we are stronger and a series win is a given...
d) Get rid of Gambhir....his feet don't move
e) replace a pure bowler( Yadav) with a batsman or at the least with an allrounder
--many will say Eng declared too late...probably right....but you can understand they wanted absolute safety and a draw, putting India under pressure still far exceeds their own and everyone's expectations...
WIN would have been great...
anotehr blessing in disguise would have been had Eng been bowled out with a lead of 230ish and had been forced to bowl more overs at India......game might have been tight but Eng was likely to win.
--India.....what could they do more or better ?
a) should first applaud the resolve of English batters...
b) must go back and look at the bowling of their spin bowlers....what is unpardonable is their inability to pick Eng's wickets on D4 and D5.
c) Get out of the mindset , we are stronger and a series win is a given...
d) Get rid of Gambhir....his feet don't move
e) replace a pure bowler( Yadav) with a batsman or at the least with an allrounder
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
More interesting finish than we might have expected. England were fairly generous with their declaration, and can go forward with the confidence thatbthey are caoable of taking wickets and that the top 4 can score runs.
Its not going to be a whitewash and there will be results pitches at some time in the series. Given how it was looking at stumps day 3 to have india on the rack is was pretty impressive all round.
Rashid is finaly starting to do something.
The positives are with england, even if it was a moral victory only. I still fancy india for the series but its much better than england have started well rather than this being a car crash from the start.
Its not going to be a whitewash and there will be results pitches at some time in the series. Given how it was looking at stumps day 3 to have india on the rack is was pretty impressive all round.
Rashid is finaly starting to do something.
The positives are with england, even if it was a moral victory only. I still fancy india for the series but its much better than england have started well rather than this being a car crash from the start.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Looking ahead to the next game - only one change I'd make to the side would be Batty for Ansari. Ansari has been "ok" (tooshort too often for me), but I think Batty would offer a bit more of a threat and nous.
Don't see how Anderson comes in unless you rest either Woakes/Broad - pitch in Wizag is meant to be like those in Bangladesh
Olly - yep, I too think Ansari has been ''ok''. On the plus side: 30 odd runs in his only innings together with a half-century partnership alongside Stokes; a couple of wickets in India's first innings plus a boundary catch; one wicket today which but for Broad spilling a sitter would have been two; and all that in only his second Test. However, as you say, too short too often. Also, as msp might say on a good day, not overly threatening. 6/10 from me.
I also agree with you about what Batty would bring to the table. However, I thought that before this Test and had Batty in my team ahead of Ansari (and also Rashid who now leapfrogs both). Whilst Ansari didn't cement his place with a stunning performance as we've said, I'm not sure that he raised enough doubts about his performance to be replaced by Batty so soon. From what you say about the track for the next Test (I know nothing about particular Indian pitches), I assume we'll want to again go with 3 spinners. If that's not the case, it would probably be easier to leave Ansari out now as part of a tactical change to bring in an extra seamer.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Eng in India
A very encouraging start to the series by England with plenty of positives. Interesting that no visiting batsman had hit a Test 100 in India for something like three years. Well, England managed FOUR in one match.
Clearly, Hameed is going to be around for a long time and it was good to see Rashid get among the wickets.
Clearly, Hameed is going to be around for a long time and it was good to see Rashid get among the wickets.
sirfredperry- Posts : 6856
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 73
Location : London
Re: Eng in India
Having Anderson back will make a big difference for T2. His control of what little reverse swing might be available and his consistency should allow pressure to be built and maintained.
1.Cook (c)
2.Hameed
3.Root
4.Duckett
5.Ali
6.Stokes
7.Bairstow (wk)
8.Rashid
9.Ansari/Batty
10.Broad
11.Anderson
Nothing against Woakes there. I rate him highly and really like him as a player. However, if 3 spinners is our best bet on these surfaces then stick with it I say. Horses for courses.
I thought Ansari had a solid game but I wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced. He appeared to be there to give control but had a higher economy rate than Moeen in both innings. As a SLA orthodox he should threaten the India right handers with his natural angle and shape. I think this variety may be what gives him another chance.
1.Cook (c)
2.Hameed
3.Root
4.Duckett
5.Ali
6.Stokes
7.Bairstow (wk)
8.Rashid
9.Ansari/Batty
10.Broad
11.Anderson
Nothing against Woakes there. I rate him highly and really like him as a player. However, if 3 spinners is our best bet on these surfaces then stick with it I say. Horses for courses.
I thought Ansari had a solid game but I wouldn't be surprised to see him replaced. He appeared to be there to give control but had a higher economy rate than Moeen in both innings. As a SLA orthodox he should threaten the India right handers with his natural angle and shape. I think this variety may be what gives him another chance.
king_carlos- Posts : 12194
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Ankh-Morpork
Re: Eng in India
Anderson returning does really present a selection headache.
Assuming the 3 and 3 bowlers split is going to continue it pretty much has to be Woakes who goes....through no fault of his own. Hes really stepped up in all formats this year and offers a hell of a lot more with the batbthan Anderson ever will.
Its pretty unthinkable that england would go without Anderson, and Broad has been bowling well. But this does leave them with only Stokes to offer real pace...and he hasnt been at his best with the ball, and the one whos maybe "due a rest".
Woakes does seem the most likely though. And with that Ansaris batting becomes a thing, so Battys chances look goosed.
If its a seamers wicket of course Ansari is the most vulnerable. But you cant imagine india allowing a pacy pitch, much more likely is some help for the spinners.
Assuming the 3 and 3 bowlers split is going to continue it pretty much has to be Woakes who goes....through no fault of his own. Hes really stepped up in all formats this year and offers a hell of a lot more with the batbthan Anderson ever will.
Its pretty unthinkable that england would go without Anderson, and Broad has been bowling well. But this does leave them with only Stokes to offer real pace...and he hasnt been at his best with the ball, and the one whos maybe "due a rest".
Woakes does seem the most likely though. And with that Ansaris batting becomes a thing, so Battys chances look goosed.
If its a seamers wicket of course Ansari is the most vulnerable. But you cant imagine india allowing a pacy pitch, much more likely is some help for the spinners.
Gooseberry- Posts : 8384
Join date : 2015-02-11
Re: Eng in India
Well, I was expecting India to get away 4 or at worst 5 down, but they lost at least 1 too many in that chase. So England pretty much with all the positive. Their batters made runs, their spinners took wickets, their seamers bowled with terrific discipline. And they had India on the mat in the last session of the match.
For India, there are issues. Rahane continues to have a bit of a problem in the first test of the series. The good news for India is that he's usually fabulous in the 2nd tes! The spinners were disappointing. Jadeja bowled with discipline but didn't threaten a great deal. Ashwin started brilliantly and then fell away though he more than made it up with the bat. Mishra, despite the 2 wickets in the 2nd innings, was absolutely disappointing, not keeping the runs in check, not taking wickets either. And then his propensity to bowl no-balls irritates the hell out of me! And, then he failed to do the job with the nightwatchman too. So a complete failure of a match for Mishra.
Don't really have much issues with the seamers. Both of them had multiple catches dropped of their bowling. Though they both couldn't reverse the ball for long periods, they bowled much better than their figures would suggest.
And as for Gambhir, since return, he had a rather frenetic 29 and a more composed 50 against New Zealand, then not the most convincing 28 and a duck here. As a reserve opener, you are unlikely to get too many chances, and Gambhir hasn't really made use of this opportunity that he got late in his career. Rahul's set to return for T3, if he lasts the ongoing Ranji game without any discomfort, think they should fasttrack his return and get him back in for the next game itself. He scored a confidence boosting 76 on the opening day of the match.......
For India, there are issues. Rahane continues to have a bit of a problem in the first test of the series. The good news for India is that he's usually fabulous in the 2nd tes! The spinners were disappointing. Jadeja bowled with discipline but didn't threaten a great deal. Ashwin started brilliantly and then fell away though he more than made it up with the bat. Mishra, despite the 2 wickets in the 2nd innings, was absolutely disappointing, not keeping the runs in check, not taking wickets either. And then his propensity to bowl no-balls irritates the hell out of me! And, then he failed to do the job with the nightwatchman too. So a complete failure of a match for Mishra.
Don't really have much issues with the seamers. Both of them had multiple catches dropped of their bowling. Though they both couldn't reverse the ball for long periods, they bowled much better than their figures would suggest.
And as for Gambhir, since return, he had a rather frenetic 29 and a more composed 50 against New Zealand, then not the most convincing 28 and a duck here. As a reserve opener, you are unlikely to get too many chances, and Gambhir hasn't really made use of this opportunity that he got late in his career. Rahul's set to return for T3, if he lasts the ongoing Ranji game without any discomfort, think they should fasttrack his return and get him back in for the next game itself. He scored a confidence boosting 76 on the opening day of the match.......
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
The track was an obnoxious one, absolute inaction for 4 and a half days, then a bit of life in the last 2 sessions. Ridiculous road that just doesn't help test cricket. Ideally the tracks should offer help to good batting and good bowling in a balanced way. If at all that balance is slightly shifted in anyone's favor, it has to be for the bowler. The tracks for the England Bangladesh series were excellent I felt. Even the tracks for the New Zealand series weren't bad, but this was just the good old stretch of the National Highway on which they used to play stupid ODI games in the past!
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
In all honesty, I think England should go into T2 unchanged. OK, Jimmy may be fit enough to play if needed, but he must be short of sharpness. He will be needed later on to give Broad and Woakes a rest, but I don't see the rush to bring him back in Indian conditions.
Overall, I think England will rate that as a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 performance - 5 of the top 6 got runs and the bowlers played well on an unhelpful surface in the first innings and a more helpful one late on. A few dropped catches that if taken would have increased the chance of forcing a win, but we had the better of the match.
Agree with MSP that the wicket was too good for batting - you really need so see some significant deterioration by early on day 4, or for there to be more there for the bowlers throughout to make it a true contest.
Overall, I think England will rate that as a 7.5 or 8 out of 10 performance - 5 of the top 6 got runs and the bowlers played well on an unhelpful surface in the first innings and a more helpful one late on. A few dropped catches that if taken would have increased the chance of forcing a win, but we had the better of the match.
Agree with MSP that the wicket was too good for batting - you really need so see some significant deterioration by early on day 4, or for there to be more there for the bowlers throughout to make it a true contest.
dummy_half- Posts : 6320
Join date : 2011-03-11
Age : 52
Location : East Hertfordshire
Re: Eng in India
Catching from both sides was poor. Had Cook been taken for a duck in the very first over, or when he offered a repeat chance in the next, or Hameed even before he got into double figures, perhaps a different tone would have ben set. Eventually someone would played a big innings because that track was so obnoxious that it kept demanding the same, but the England top order would have been under a great deal of pressure early on. And had Stokes been taken early on day 2 if not the first time but at least when he offered a repeat chance in the next over, then perhaps England wouldn't have gone pass 500.
Likewise, had Murali Vijay been held on 66, the Pujara Vijay stand wouldn't have inflicted that much damage, or had Cook held onto the offering from Shami, England would have had a much better advantage going into the 2nd innings. So pretty poor catching standards overall, not the best of umpiring, and an absolutely obnoxious road of a track, are the absolute negatives from the game.
Likewise, had Murali Vijay been held on 66, the Pujara Vijay stand wouldn't have inflicted that much damage, or had Cook held onto the offering from Shami, England would have had a much better advantage going into the 2nd innings. So pretty poor catching standards overall, not the best of umpiring, and an absolutely obnoxious road of a track, are the absolute negatives from the game.
msp83- Posts : 16069
Join date : 2011-05-30
Location : India
Re: Eng in India
Well now I have a bit to catch up on ...was able to watch the game but my Internet connection failed on Saturday so am only now looking at the comments of all my learned friends on here
To take msp's and dummy's notes above : I am less critical of the pitch : certainly it was very good for batting ; but as msp himself points out , several chances were missed on both sides which might have seen resulted in rather briefer first innings for each team - and as it was the game ended with one team six down and under at least some pressure to save the (apparently nailed on ) draw...to me , this makes a pretty good Test Match ; albeit one I wouldn't like to see replicated every game in a series. Had there been just a little more assistance for the bowlers , it would have been even better ; but who can prepare a pitch with that degree of accuracy ? I think the groundsman did a pretty good job for a first Test at this venue and I don't really think either players or spectators should be complaining too much. As I've said before ; I believe in a mixed set of pitches in a series ; and I'm fairly sure we will see several more conducive to a result as this one goes on - quite happy with a full five days cricket in the first one !
To take msp's and dummy's notes above : I am less critical of the pitch : certainly it was very good for batting ; but as msp himself points out , several chances were missed on both sides which might have seen resulted in rather briefer first innings for each team - and as it was the game ended with one team six down and under at least some pressure to save the (apparently nailed on ) draw...to me , this makes a pretty good Test Match ; albeit one I wouldn't like to see replicated every game in a series. Had there been just a little more assistance for the bowlers , it would have been even better ; but who can prepare a pitch with that degree of accuracy ? I think the groundsman did a pretty good job for a first Test at this venue and I don't really think either players or spectators should be complaining too much. As I've said before ; I believe in a mixed set of pitches in a series ; and I'm fairly sure we will see several more conducive to a result as this one goes on - quite happy with a full five days cricket in the first one !
alfie- Posts : 20896
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
Plus and minus points : England clearly taking more from the game , not least because they were expected to struggle in the series - apart from achieving the upper hand in a drawn match , they must take confidence from an improved batting effort against spin , and some better than generally expected performances from their own spinners.
Thought the Indian seamers acquitted themselves quite well in the first innings , at least until worn down by the unhelpful pitch And although he didn't have much effect with the ball , Ashwin both underlined his all rounder status and showed that the policy of picking five bowlers is viable with him at six : in truth you could possibly say his batting was the difference between a draw and a loss for his team...
Thought the Indian seamers acquitted themselves quite well in the first innings , at least until worn down by the unhelpful pitch And although he didn't have much effect with the ball , Ashwin both underlined his all rounder status and showed that the policy of picking five bowlers is viable with him at six : in truth you could possibly say his batting was the difference between a draw and a loss for his team...
alfie- Posts : 20896
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
News is that Rahul may play per the report below if he shows no discomfort in fielding....2 selectors are watching the Ranji game...and the venue is not too far from the test match venue.......Gambhir in a 5 man batting line up is neither assuring in the present ...nor has a future.msp83 wrote:Mishra, despite the 2 wickets in the 2nd innings, was absolutely disappointing, not keeping the runs in check, not taking wickets either. And then his propensity to bowl no-balls irritates the hell out of me! And, then he failed to do the job with the nightwatchman too. So a complete failure of a match for Mishra.
Don't really have much issues with the seamers. Both of them had multiple catches dropped of their bowling. Though they both couldn't reverse the ball for long periods, they bowled much better than their figures would suggest.
Rahul's set to return for T3, if he lasts the ongoing Ranji game without any discomfort, think they should fasttrack his return and get him back in for the next game itself. He scored a confidence boosting 76 on the opening day of the match.......
Mishra will get another test....he was the highest wicket taker for India in the match .....thereafter if he fails we may consider Jayant Yadav for T3
KL RAHUL FOR GAMBHIR IN VIZAG?
By Vijay Tagore | Nov 14, 2016, 10.52 AM IST
KL Rahul (left) and Gautam Gambhir (right)
India may have wriggled out of jail in the first Test but Gautam Gambhir may get pushed into cricketing hibernation. The India opener, on a comeback trail in international cricket, could make way for KL Rahul should the young opener prove fitness. Although the current squad was announced for the first two Tests, there is a chance that selectors and team management could go for a 16th member in the squad and should that 16th member be Rahul, it could spell doom for Gambhir.
Gambhir did no good for his cause in the first Test, having failed in both innings. His second innings dismissal, for naught, put India on the back foot instantly but his first innings batting seems to be causing a debate among experts.The open-chested stance, which he, apparently, started adopting after having a training stint with Justin Langer in Australia, has been a subject of debate in the commentary box and majority view appears to be that he could be a candidate for LBW. It was exactly the way he got out in the first inning, playing across to Stuart Broad for 29.
In the second innings, of course he fell to a good delivery from Chris Woakes and that, as Ravi Shastri would often say, set the cat among pigeons before Virat Kohli took India to safety. Gambhir's scores since his international comeback last month have been 29, 50, 29, 0, not the scores that the 57-Test 35-year veteran would be proud of. Meanwhile on Sunday, Rahul was in Vizianagarm representing Karnataka in the Ranji Trophy against Rajasthan and the young opener did well for his state side to begin with. But an impressive knock of 76 may not be enough to convince the selectors, a couple of whom, it is learnt, have gone to Vizianagaram. The selectors may watch him field to study his fitness before taking a decision.
Vizianagarm being in close geographical proximity to Vizag, the venue of the second Test, helps the selectors take the call as late as possible. The second Test starts on November 17.
http://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/sport/cricket/KL-Rahul-for-Gambhir-in-Vizag/articleshow/55410546.cms
KP_fan- Posts : 10098
Join date : 2012-07-27
Re: Eng in India
Very pleased with the way the much disparaged England spin bowlers performed : thought they all had their moments. Rashid the standout ...I have been disappointed with him in the past (in Tests) but thought this time he showed signs of real development : he will always give away a few runs but that can be accepted if he takes top order wickets...will be very interesting to see what he does against this Indian lineup on a pitch that has a bit more menace...
However the big event for me was the first appearance of Hameed. Saw nothing but a few highlights of his first innings ; but that second innings performance convinced me that this time England have at last unearthed someone who can replace Strauss at the top of the order. He came in to a situation still full of danger ; a scanty lead , ball turning , fielders round the bat , and even his very experienced skipper looking less that assured at the other end - and he handled it superbly. That straight six somehow changed the whole feel of the innings ; and unlike Duckett's similar early strike in Bangladesh it neither seemed like recklessness nor was followed by a further overdose of exuberance. He settled into a fine rhythm : true he became somewhat becalmed on the last morning as Cook took over the scoring , and eventually lost his wicket to a bit of impatience ; but all in all a really excellent innings. Especially for one so young.
Now it won't all be so smooth : he will face different challenges - Australian or South African quicks on bouncy pitches , for example ; and his progress may not be uninterrupted (even Root lost his place , briefly , at one stage) ; but if I am any sort of judge of a cricketer , England have found one here.
However the big event for me was the first appearance of Hameed. Saw nothing but a few highlights of his first innings ; but that second innings performance convinced me that this time England have at last unearthed someone who can replace Strauss at the top of the order. He came in to a situation still full of danger ; a scanty lead , ball turning , fielders round the bat , and even his very experienced skipper looking less that assured at the other end - and he handled it superbly. That straight six somehow changed the whole feel of the innings ; and unlike Duckett's similar early strike in Bangladesh it neither seemed like recklessness nor was followed by a further overdose of exuberance. He settled into a fine rhythm : true he became somewhat becalmed on the last morning as Cook took over the scoring , and eventually lost his wicket to a bit of impatience ; but all in all a really excellent innings. Especially for one so young.
Now it won't all be so smooth : he will face different challenges - Australian or South African quicks on bouncy pitches , for example ; and his progress may not be uninterrupted (even Root lost his place , briefly , at one stage) ; but if I am any sort of judge of a cricketer , England have found one here.
alfie- Posts : 20896
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
As to the England tactics/ declaration timing : no real complaints. They might have tried to push on a bit earlier , perhaps : though when the excellent Root attempted early aggression it merely resulted in his cheap dismissal - not so easy on a fifth day pitch scoring quickly against an experienced opponent employing (perfectly justifiable) negative tactics.
I doubt they seriously expected to dismiss India in two sessions , given the pitch wasn't looking like becoming unplayable : suspect they felt , as did a number of posters on here , that they'd be better off wearing down India's bowlers that tiring out their own ; but after reaching a three hundred lead they took the reasonable option of a fifty over go , secure in the knowledge there would be no need to use the seamers for more than a handful of overs ; and see how much damage they could do ... As it happened , perhaps more than expected! As guildford noted above , ten more overs from the start of the innings may well have had no extra effect.
I think they struck about the right balance. And to be honest , the way Jadeja and Kohli were playing out the last few overs , ten more might not have made any difference even had they been dropped in on top !
I doubt they seriously expected to dismiss India in two sessions , given the pitch wasn't looking like becoming unplayable : suspect they felt , as did a number of posters on here , that they'd be better off wearing down India's bowlers that tiring out their own ; but after reaching a three hundred lead they took the reasonable option of a fifty over go , secure in the knowledge there would be no need to use the seamers for more than a handful of overs ; and see how much damage they could do ... As it happened , perhaps more than expected! As guildford noted above , ten more overs from the start of the innings may well have had no extra effect.
I think they struck about the right balance. And to be honest , the way Jadeja and Kohli were playing out the last few overs , ten more might not have made any difference even had they been dropped in on top !
alfie- Posts : 20896
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
I think its only fair that I highlight that Rashid had a good Test with the ball - the kind of performance that I thought was beyond him. If he can build on this I will gladly eat my words, but I am reserving judgement until there's some consistency there - let's hope he doesn't become the Steven Finn of spin bowling!
Hameed does look to be a real find, but as noted above it might take a few years for him to mature. And lighting an absolute grenade Alex Hales did also have a few scores of 80-odd opening!
Hameed does look to be a real find, but as noted above it might take a few years for him to mature. And lighting an absolute grenade Alex Hales did also have a few scores of 80-odd opening!
VTR- Posts : 4881
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg
Re: Eng in India
Last : next game is apparently going to be played on a more spin friendly pitch , right ?
So I can't see England changing their 3/3 bowling set up. I suppose Batty for Ansari is possible , as is Anderson for Woakes : but I suspect they'll prefer to leave the team as is , with the likelihood Jimmy will come into the side for the third match to add much needed freshness as well as all his experience .
India must be disappointed by Mishra , surely ? KPf and msp will know better than I whether a change there is likely or reasonable. Gambhir does look to be on borrowed time ; but he may get a second chance as his most likely replacement , Rahul , may not be deemed ready just yet.
Could be the two teams actually line up the same again ?
So I can't see England changing their 3/3 bowling set up. I suppose Batty for Ansari is possible , as is Anderson for Woakes : but I suspect they'll prefer to leave the team as is , with the likelihood Jimmy will come into the side for the third match to add much needed freshness as well as all his experience .
India must be disappointed by Mishra , surely ? KPf and msp will know better than I whether a change there is likely or reasonable. Gambhir does look to be on borrowed time ; but he may get a second chance as his most likely replacement , Rahul , may not be deemed ready just yet.
Could be the two teams actually line up the same again ?
alfie- Posts : 20896
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
VTR wrote:I think its only fair that I highlight that Rashid had a good Test with the ball - the kind of performance that I thought was beyond him. If he can build on this I will gladly eat my words, but I am reserving judgement until there's some consistency there -let's hope he doesn't become the Steven Finn of spin bowling!
Hameed does look to be a real find, but as noted above it might take a few years for him to mature. And lighting an absolute grenade Alex Hales did also have a few scores of 80-odd opening!
Amen to that ! I am hopeful...
Good point re Hales. But fair to say that he never really looked as comfortable as this youngster even when he was making runs (and I say that as a Hales fan)
alfie- Posts : 20896
Join date : 2011-05-31
Location : Melbourne.
Re: Eng in India
Yes - I was only joking on Hales really, I am no expert but some commentators are pointing out that Hameed doesn't seem to have an obvious weakness whereas Hales is set up to be caught in the slips sooner rather than later
VTR- Posts : 4881
Join date : 2012-03-23
Location : Fine Leg
Re: Eng in India
alfie wrote:Last : next game is apparently going to be played on a more spin friendly pitch , right ?
So I can't see England changing their 3/3 bowling set up. I suppose Batty for Ansari is possible , as is Anderson for Woakes : but I suspect they'll prefer to leave the team as is , with the likelihood Jimmy will come into the side for the third match to add much needed freshness as well as all his experience .
India must be disappointed by Mishra , surely ? KPf and msp will know better than I whether a change there is likely or reasonable. Gambhir does look to be on borrowed time ; but he may get a second chance as his most likely replacement , Rahul , may not be deemed ready just yet.
Could be the two teams actually line up the same again ?
Alfie - yep, that's what is being said about the pitch. I believe Olly went out there yesterday and put his tractor keys in the wicket!
I too would expect an unchanged England line up. Having been chosen for the first Test of this series, Ansari did (just about) well enough to retain his place for the second. Given how well the bowlers did as a whole, it would seem an unnecessary rush to bring Anderson back and try to fit him in so soon. Another week on the sidelines may ultimately be good for him and shouldn't do us any harm provided we match with the ball what we've just done.
Btw, I think msp's opinion of Mishra is so low it becomes difficult for msp to become disappointed by him.
guildfordbat- Posts : 16588
Join date : 2011-04-07
Re: Eng in India
VTR wrote:Yes - I was only joking on Hales really, I am no expert but some commentators are pointing out that Hameed doesn't seem to have an obvious weakness whereas Hales is set up to be caught in the slips sooner rather than later
There was a thought on the county scene that he can be troubled by the short ball...but that won't be tested here.
Much like Cook/Root when they came into the side, it's clear he's got the talent to be something special. But like those two there are likely to be rough patches, but he must be stuck with until he cracks it like they have done so!
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
- Posts : 51021
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 28
Location : Chris Woakes's wardrobe
Page 5 of 20 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 12 ... 20
Similar topics
» India in Zimbabwe and India A in South Africa 2013
» NZ in India
» BD in India
» Northants vs india
» What now for India
» NZ in India
» BD in India
» Northants vs india
» What now for India
The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
Page 5 of 20
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
|
|