South Africa in Australia 2016

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South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:03 pm

Quite a bit of test cricket around. New Zealand in India and England in Bangladesh are done, West Indies is starting to look like a test side towards the end of their series against Pakistan. England in India is about to kick off. And along side that series, is the South Africa in Australia series.
First test to start at the WACA tomorrow. South Africa usually are at their best when traveling though they were utterly thrashed by India last year, and they don't seem to have completely recovered from that. However, the Australian chasllenge should see them refreshed and ready to go, particularly after inflicting a home ODI whitewash on the Australians in a 5 match series recently. Australia on the other hand, remain as formidable at home as ever. Their home record is consistently challenged in recent times by the South Africans and Steven Smith's side would want to set the record right.
All in all, a good series on the cards.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:03 pm


South Africa, it seems are contemplating an all pace attack for the first test, Steyn, Rabada, Philander, and Morne Morkel....... Not sure about that, the WACA has become an atrocious road in recent times. Even when it is not a road, it is on the flatter side. You would need a spinner in such conditions, particularly when Philander is not likely to be a massive threat with the older ball, and they having only 4 bowling options and Duminy. Should play either Keshav Maharaj or Tabraiz Shamsi....... The former has recent form, the latter has already tasted international cricket in limited overs format with some success, and is unorthodox as a spinner as he bowls chinaman....... Morkel bowled his heart out in India, when conditions offered him not much help, but was pretty ordinary subsequently. Has had fitness issues in recent times.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:07 pm

Between Shamsi and Maharaj, Shami the Chinaman has a slightly better overall FC record. But Maharaj is a much better bat. He seems capable of holding a bat, while Shamsi is a proper tailender.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by VTR on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 3:16 pm

Good to see a thread for this series. Just to flag to those based in the UK, this is being shown live on BT Sport, which obviously a lot of people get for free

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by ShankyCricket on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 5:06 pm

msp83 wrote:Quite a bit of test cricket around. New Zealand in India and England in Bangladesh are done, West Indies is starting to look like a test side towards the end of their series against Pakistan. England in India is about to kick off. And along side that series, is the South Africa in Australia series.
First test to start at the WACA tomorrow. South Africa usually are at their best when traveling though they were utterly thrashed by India last year, and they don't seem to have completely recovered from that. However, the Australian chasllenge should see them refreshed and ready to go, particularly after inflicting a home ODI whitewash on the Australians in a 5 match series recently.  Australia on the other hand, remain as formidable at home as ever. Their home record is consistently challenged in recent times by the South Africans and Steven Smith's side would want to set the record right.
All in all, a good series on the cards.
Off topic but I think WI have competed really well in the UAE throughout the Test series, not just in the last test. Lost the first Test by 56 runs, one of Pak's narrowest wins in the UAE that too despite conceding a 200+ 1st innings lead. Scored 300+ in the 4th innings of the 2nd Test and nearly 300 in the 4th innings of the 1st. And are now on the verge of winning their first away Test win vs a proper team in almost a decade (SA PE 07)!!!! Especially after losing badly in their preferred formats to Pak who are also a bad LOI side and now competing against a very good Pak Test side who were ranked #1 not too long ago, this has been an unbelievable turnaround. Their home series vs Pak next year now looks a lot more interesting especially as Pakistan are likely to be without Misbah who'll surely retire after the Australia tour.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 6:15 pm

Hi Shanky, welcome back, think seeing you here after a while?
Yes, to be fair to West Indies, they've been better than their usual garbage self though they played true to their style in the 2nd game and for initial parts of the first one. In the first game thought Pak were a bit overconfident after they took a massive first innings and nearly lost the plot. And then here the series is already in their pockets.......
But in the likes of Brathwaite, Bravo, and Dowrich, they have a few decent players who can crack it at test level.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 6:26 pm

VTR wrote:Good to see a thread for this series. Just to flag to those based in the UK, this is being shown live on BT Sport, which obviously a lot of people get for free

A shame it starts at blooming 2:30am!

Australia should win fairly comfortably?
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by VTR on Wed 02 Nov 2016, 6:39 pm

Yeah a bit late to watch. But a chance to catch a bit before work and highlights at 6:30 each day by the looks

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 9:15 am

South Africa bowled out for an underwhelming 242 in their first innings, winning the toss and batting first. The top order struggled, with the best score in the top 5 being Faf du Plesis' 37. They were 32-4 at 1 stage, then 81-5. Half-centuries from Tembavuma 51, and Quinton de Kock 84, with a few lower order contributions eventually pushed them to a semi decent score of 242.
Mitchell Starc took 4 wickets, Hazelwood took 3 and Nathan Lyon, who struggled in spin friendly conditions earlier this year, took 2 wickets.
David Warner seems intent upon showing the South Africans that their score means nothing, as he has gone flying to 30 in an opening partnership of 37 so far, with Shaun Marsh.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 9:27 am

Warner is running away with it, 54 of 40 already, and Australia 72 without loss.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by KP_fan on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 10:12 am

yeah...Warner is sehwag-ish....he could flatten the opponent quickly
they must get him quickly tomm...and it might turn into a diffrent pitch for other batsmen to follow
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 10:40 am

Wow pretty huge statement from Autralia here. Less than 150 in arrears without a wicket down, pretty much a perfect start.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by VTR on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:10 am

Warner could turn out to be the Australian version of Alex Hales!

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by VTR on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:15 am

Tongue in cheek comments aside - time and again, if you are out for an under par score in Australia expect to be absolutely savaged by Mr Warner. A very fine and destructive opener in his own conditions, and not too bad elsewhere.

SA did well to recover but only turned a terrible score into a bad score really

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 11:20 am

And on the plus side Bavuma is starting to look less like a purely political selection

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by kingraf on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 12:37 pm

Gooseberry wrote:And on the plus side Bavuma is starting to look less like a purely political selection

Only averaging 40. Maybe England should look for more political selections, given the sterling job their merit selections (ahem... Hales, Vince, Ballance, Robson, Lyth) have done so far.

Anyway, horror start to the tour. this was not what we needed. But the opposition is allowed to play well. Need to try keep the lead under 100 and then bat a lot better in the second dig. The first session tomorrow will be crucial. Australia well on top, but it's worth noting that Mitchell Marsh averages 24 and Nevill 20, so from 6 down, they can be rattled through
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 1:20 pm

Bavuma is a fine batsman. He has a great temperament, the one batsman who was more than willing to tough it out in India when the likes of Faf du Plessis had given up even before the series had started. He made runs against England, he made runs against New Zealand, and he has now started well against the Australians.
And if the alternatives are the likes of van Zyl, Bavuma any day! the colour or politics doesn't even matter.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 03 Nov 2016, 2:38 pm

kingraf wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:And on the plus side Bavuma is starting to look less like a purely political selection

Only averaging 40. Maybe England should look for more political selections, given the sterling job their merit selections (ahem... Hales, Vince, Ballance, Robson, Lyth) have done so far.

Anyway, horror start to the tour. this was not what we needed. But the opposition is allowed to play well. Need to try keep the lead under 100 and then bat a lot better in the second dig. The first session tomorrow will be crucial. Australia well on top, but it's worth noting that Mitchell Marsh averages 24 and Nevill 20, so from 6 down, they can be rattled through

We already top our quota on gingers. The likes of Ian Bell get dropped for avergaing over 40.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by alfie on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 7:42 am

kingraf wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:And on the plus side Bavuma is starting to look less like a purely political selection

Only averaging 40. Maybe England should look for more political selections, given the sterling job their merit selections (ahem... Hales, Vince, Ballance, Robson, Lyth) have done so far.

Anyway, horror start to the tour. this was not what we needed. But the opposition is allowed to play well. Need to try keep the lead under 100 and then bat a lot better in the second dig. The first session tomorrow will be crucial. Australia well on top, but it's worth noting that Mitchell Marsh averages 24 and Nevill 20, so from 6 down, they can be rattled through

Got your wish , raf...

Astonishing turnaround today : when Steyn broke down I thought Australia were poised to slaughter the undermanned attack as the day went on...instead they simply folded up , rather meekly. Lead a long way "under 100" Smile

Now comes the tricky bit ; batting better - although Cook and Elgar have already beaten the first innings score at three down so maybe.
If they can see Starc and Hazelwood off I think SA might even lay claims to being on top...at least for the moment...

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by alfie on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 7:50 am

Was only following via text so I am not in a position to judge the new SA spinner ; but he seemed to do a good job , keeping it steady , grabbing a couple of important wickets (I see Smith wasn't best pleased at being given lbw ; but if the drs couldn't prove Dar's call wrong then he can't really grumble too much.)
Rabada and Philander did a great job ...but they certainly won't want to be out bowling again for a while , especially as they'll be missing Steyn from the start of the second innings. Number one priority for SA must be to bat all day tomorrow ...forecast is for 37 degrees.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by KP_fan on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 7:50 am

it becomes a different ball game literally when the likes of Sehwag & Warner get out.....but still a stunning colapse from Aus.

Given that Steyn was missing and SA have only 2 seamers....should make Aus feel even more sick
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 8:29 am

kingraf wrote:

... Australia well on top, but it's worth noting that Mitchell Marsh averages 24 and Nevill 20, so from 6 down, they can be rattled through

Good spot and call, Raf.

I haven't watched any of this Test so far but from a review of the scores South Africa have twice come back very well. Firstly from the ominous position of 34/4 and then from Australia's opening onslaught led by Warner. Whether Australia will most regret not cashing in on those positions or South Africa still allowing them to occur remains to be seen,

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 9:30 am

If this were Pakistan a decade ago youd assume there was some serious money changing hands at bookmakers!

I think that can be described as and Englandesque collpase. 158 of 244 runs for the first wicket is pretty bonkers long tail or not. Aus do need to find a better alternative to Marsh as an allrounder.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by alfie on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 9:40 am

Wasn't too surprised at M Marsh failing , though Nevill actually hung around for a while. The real damage was done in knocking over both Khawaja and Smith along with both openers in that remarkable period before lunch : considering the way Warner and Marsh had powered their way to 150 it must have taken the home team by surprise.
I had the impression that SA had actually bowled rather well right from the start this morning so perhaps their rewards came with a rush...
Of course one of the features of the WACA often commented on by local players is that it is a difficult place to get "in" ...but once you are set it can be very good to bat on.
None of the Australians really got "in" after the openers...

At 94/2 Elgar and Duminy really need to go on from here.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by alfie on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 9:42 am

Gooseberry wrote:If this were Pakistan a decade ago youd assume there was some serious money changing hands at bookmakers!

I think that can be described as and Englandesque collpase. 158 of 244 runs for the first wicket is pretty bonkers long tail or not. Aus do need to find a better alternative to Marsh as an allrounder.

I think they do. But as Henriques is being mentioned in the local media as an alternative I am not sure that is something which will be easily achieved.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 10:08 am

Steyn out of the series with a fractured shoulder
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by alfie on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 10:16 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Steyn out of the series with a fractured shoulder

A blow for SA . And a loss for all cricket fans.

After his previous shoulder issues , and considering his age , there must be a fear that we may have seen the last of this magnificent bowler. I hope not ; but it is going to be a tough one to come back from.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by kingraf on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 10:46 am

Pretty much went as well as could be hoped for. Certainly better than any team has a right to hope for when a team is 160/1 and your best bowler is out with a shoulder injury. Basically 100/2 and if steyn was still here, I'd say we're in the driver's seat, with Australia all but tied up in the trunk. As it, it's interestingly poised. Need to bat the whole day tomorrow. At least. That would put us at least 350 up.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 11:18 am

Well thats a big twist, it does leave SA a bit short on the bowling front. Is there anyone who bowls a bit of occasional seam or is the backup just Duminys spin?

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by KP_fan on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 11:30 am

Dean Elgar I have seen is  a SLA....and not a bad one....better than Duminy's Off spin
and Bavuma could bowl medium pace
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 11:50 am

I wouldnt talk down Duminys spin too much, he has a better average, strike rate and economy than Moeen Ali. he, and to some extent Elgar, can certainly be called on to bowl a fair number of overs ....but assuming it doesnt suddenly become a spinners wicket that still leaves a lot of load on Phil and Rabada. Bavuma has 4 first class wickets ... that really would be fill in change bowling than a genuine option/Jacques Kallis.

With Rabada in particular not being a "bulk overs" bowler the Aussie top 4 must know they have a chance for big runs if they can survive the new ball.

SA are on their way to a decent first innings lead (104/2 as I wirte), if they make it a big one theyll still be in the driving seat but the loss of Styen could really hit them.

I wouldnt like to make a call at this point after being shamed on the assumption SA had won on day 1.


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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 1:20 pm

Great comeback from South Africa, and an outrageous, England/Bangladesh like collapse from Australia.
Have never been convinced about Marsh as an all-rounder, lacks test quality in both departtments, at least as of now, at this stage of his career. Henriques? Not really. One name that doesn't get that much mention, but I believe should be strongly considered, is that of James Faulkner. The guy can be very good with the ball, and is a fighter with the bat, and surely better than Marsh. He's tagged a limited overs specialist, but as was shown in his first and only test, he can hold his own at the test level too, and is bettr than the other options they've got. They say Nevill is a better bat than his batting position suggests, and that his style of batting needs him to be batted up the order. Nevill at 6, Faulkner at 7.
For some reason, they just aren't willing to consider the option.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 1:22 pm

Sad to see this happening to Dale Steyn. His body has just refused to cooperate for the last year or so, and though he retains the best of his qualities, the body isn't listening any more. It will be tough to overcome this latest setback, but I just hope he somehow manage that. Even today, he was right on target right away, and provided the all important breakthrough that opened the gates.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by KP_fan on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 1:41 pm

agree with you on both points msp---> good observation 
Faulkner is better than any others Aus are trying as allrounders

and Dale Steyn's body let down needs to be reviewed by SA....they have to play a 5th bowler / seam bowling allrounder if Steyn is in the side.
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by ShankyCricket on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 5:31 pm

Faulkner is a slower ball specialist, not a Test bowler. He is like a DJ Bravo. Even in ODIs, he has been utterly $hite since that WC final. Will be a ludicrous selection.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 6:58 pm

Faulkner averages nearly 32 with the bat and 24 with the ball at First Class level. Hardly ludicrous numbers I would say! And he has played most of his cricket in rather demanding FC environments. Has 180 wickets from 57 matches, so clearly a frontline bowling option.
He's not the next Jacques Kallis or Sobers. But he can do a job, and a much better job at that, in comparison to the other options the Australians have tried out in recent times, Marsh, Henriques, and Maxwell....... Faulkner is any day better than any of them in my book, clearly with the ball, and I would say with the bat too.


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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 7:08 pm

And yes, agree KPF, South Africa most certainly need that 5th bowling option. One of Morris or Parnell, or if he continues to develop, even Andil Phehlukwayo could be that option. A side that used to have a ready supply of seam bowling all-rounders at one point, seems the breed has become rather rare in South Africa these days. Morris would be my preferred option, and think he should come in for Duminy. But then, when AB returns, would, could and should they sit du Plessis out?

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by wisden on Fri 04 Nov 2016, 7:35 pm

Chris Morris is certainly a good shout..and no they shouldn't leave out Faf...he arguably should captain the side in all formats...very good captain, and would let AB focus on batting

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 6:07 am

Elgar and Duminy piling it on with a big partnership, over 200 now. Duminy has at last scored a test ton, a really innings of substance. South Africa 248-2, leading by 246.
Second new ball time for Australia, they would need to open up a window here, otherwise, even without Steyn, this could get ugly for them, at the hands of Rabada, Philander and Maharaj.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 6:48 am

Ton up for Elgar too, and SA are marching on. 281-2. New ball not providing the wickets for Australia......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:05 am

The big ton from Duminy means that the fight for positions when AB comes back in, gets intensified. Faf du Plessis and Steven Cook would need big runs....... Cook is an opener, but they have the option of converting Bavuma into the role. He is more suited to a middle order role, but for ensuring team balance, they might have to go that way.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:17 am

Duminy gone in the last over before tea. Will the doors open for Australia or Faf and co continue to keep them under the pump? The pitch has lost all life by the look of things, looks more like the flat road in recent times.

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 7:55 am

Elgar has been batting at his own pace and holding the innings together. And that's fine. But du Plessis have to play the situation here, should ensure the innings retains a decent momentum, has to keep the scoreboard moving........

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 9:06 am

msp83 wrote:The big ton from Duminy means that the fight for positions when AB comes back in, gets intensified. Faf du Plessis and Steven Cook would need big runs....... Cook is an opener, but they have the option of converting Bavuma into the role. He is more suited to a middle order role, but for ensuring team balance, they might have to go that way.......

Surely you'd just move De Kock up to open?
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 9:41 am

Quinton de Kock opened with considerable success in a recent test and he's the limited overs opener. But keeping and opening in test match together, too demanding on I feel. And at 6 or 7, he can really influence the course of the game better. So I'll leave him at 7.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:05 am

Though South Africa lost a few quick wickets after tea, Quinton de Kock and Vernon Philander arrested the collapse and took their side to stumps at 390-6.
That is a strong position for South Africa.
But lots of time left in the match, with no Steyn available to bowl, and a track that is really for batsmen, they would still need to do some more work with the bat to take the game away from the Australians.......

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 10:25 am

19 times in the history of test cricket has a team batting 4th scored more than 400

South Africa are in complete command of this game, even minus Steyn.
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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by msp83 on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 11:12 am

Olly it is a bit of a road of a track as of now! Absolutely even bounce consistent pace. No swing, no spin. There could be just a little bit of seam movement at times, but nothing really challenging for the batsmen. And South African bowlers have to even start at a lower intensity as they need to conserve themselves. For someone like Rabada,, who is more like a wickettaking, aggressive shortish spell bowler, that could be difficult and might eventually reduce his effectiveness.
And didn't South Africa chased down 414 here in 2008?

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by alfie on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 11:53 am

msp83 wrote:Great comeback from South Africa, and an outrageous, England/Bangladesh like collapse from Australia.
Have never been convinced about Marsh as an all-rounder, lacks test quality in both departtments, at least as of now, at this stage of his career. Henriques? Not really. One name that doesn't get that much mention, but I believe should be strongly considered, is that of James Faulkner. The guy can be very good with the ball, and is  a fighter with the bat, and surely better than Marsh. He's tagged a limited overs specialist, but as was shown in his first and only test, he can hold his own at the test level too, and is bettr than the other options they've got. They say Nevill is a better bat than his batting position suggests, and that his style of batting needs him to be batted up the order. Nevill at 6, Faulkner at 7.
For some reason, they just aren't willing to consider the option.......

I like Faulkner (though he is injured at present) but I don't think he is a top six Test bat. And if you think Nevill can bat at six I question how often you have seen him ...he is barely a seven.

Reckon Australia would do better to find six proper batsmen and let Warner and Smith bowl a few overs...Mitch Marsh is a luxury they cannot currently afford.

alfie

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

Post by alfie on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 12:05 pm

390 ahead with four wickets (actually three) ...I'd sooner SA position.

Yes the WACA allows large 4th innings totals ...but this chase may well be 450 or close to. Road or not , that's tough. And , Warner and Smith apart , who in the Australian order can be relied upon ?

alfie

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Re: South Africa in Australia 2016

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