World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll

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Total Votes : 61

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:16 am

The list of nominees sees two players from NZ, three from England, plus one from Ireland. What is surprising to me is that NZ do not have 5/6 players on the list of nominees. I think Heaslip is a good player but if an Irish player is on the list then should it be him? I get the feeling a fair few Irish would be saying no to Heaslip. Also, no idea how Owen Farrell keeps on making the list...

http://www.espn.co.uk/rugby/story/_/id/17996261/vote-win-world-rugby-player-year

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Post by tigertattie on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:19 am

who made this list? Why isn't Sam Burgess on it?
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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:19 am

Jamie Heaslip Headscratch

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Post by beshocked on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:32 am

I find it amusing that Billy Vunipola can be nominated for world player of the year but lose the nomination for 6 nations player of the year to Hogg. He was clearly the outstanding player in the 6 nations. As much of a travesty as Harinorduquy losing the nomination to Bowe in 2010.

Barrett will probably win, he has been probably the best player in a dominant AB side.

I'd say Itoje should win the breakthrough/rising star award so give this award to either Barrett or Billy.

Neither Farrell or Heaslip should be there IMO.

I'll vote for Billy simply because I think he deserves recognition whilst Barrett will in all likelihood stroll to victory in this poll.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:32 am

Certainly some odd ones, but don't they have them every year? I wonder who decided the list of nominees and how?

I agree with Itoje, Barrett and Coles. I think Read should have also been on the list, and perhaps Whitelock or Retallick again.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:35 am

Is Bernard Foley unlucky to miss out?

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Post by BamBam on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:37 am

I'd go Coles

Don't think Foley has been particularly great other than the last 2 games

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:38 am

I dont think Barrett should win. He is statistically the worst goal kicker in world rugby this year. You shouldnt win world player of the year if you have such a weakness to your game that is key for your position. This weakness isnt that obvious as his team has been so dominant.

http://goalkickers.co.za/ filter for all competitions.

I would give it to Itoje with Coles second as itoje is the only stand out player this year on one of the weakest shortlists of all time.

Conor Murray should be on the list.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:42 am

BamBam wrote:I'd go Coles

Don't think Foley has been particularly great other than the last 2 games

All last season he was pretty good and isn't that the year this is based on? Hard to tell I guess with opposite seasons.

Murray is actually a good shout, he hasn't really got much recognition until that game against NZ.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:50 am

GunsGerms wrote:Conor Murray should be on the list.
Wasn't he badly off form for much of this year?

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Post by BamBam on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:51 am

Oh I hadn't even thought about what seasons it applied to

Weird to have Itoje and Farrell in if they're factoring in the RWC

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:51 am

Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Conor Murray should be on the list.
Wasn't he badly off form for much of this year?

He had a couple of bad games alright but some really good games.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:57 am

Hard not to give it to a NZ player considering they are coming off of a WC win and take the 4N at a canter with a ridiculous winning streak in there to boot.
Out of Barrett and Coles I feel Barrett is getting plaudits because he took over from Carter quite well but I agree with others his kicking for an outhalf lets him down.
Coles is becoming the heart of that usually dominant NZ pack and he does some nice noteworthy stuff out wide also.  Coles gets it for me.

Itoje is a close second.

Heaslip shouldn't be on the list.  I defend him plenty and he has been the popular target for criticism from the not-so-silent-majority out there.  But he wasn't one of the top 6 players in the world this past year, he wasn't even in Irelands top 3 (which I'd have as Murray, McGrath and Stander in some order).

===Edit===
Heaslip feels like a 'we should include a minnow, a Parisse, or someone not to be seen as too centric on NZ and England'.
How has Aaron Smith's latest newsworthiness impacted this list?
I look back at it and think that either Barrett or Heaslip has been put into the list in his place, probably Barrett if so.


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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:58 am

BamBam wrote:Oh I hadn't even thought about what seasons it applied to

Weird to have Itoje and Farrell in if they're factoring in the RWC

If they did factor in the RWC then Foley should definitely be there.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 10:59 am

GunsGerms wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Conor Murray should be on the list.
Wasn't he badly off form for much of this year?

He had a couple of bad games alright but some really good games.
He's improved but I wouldn't say he's done enough to be shortlisted though. He's not up there with the likes of Aaron Smith (before his misdemeanour).

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Post by beshocked on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:01 am

Bambam can hardly blame Itoje not getting picked for the RWC. It was Lancaster..... Wink Of course Lancaster shot himself in the foot.

Billy actually had a very good RWC in his limited appearances before his injury. Made a massive impact vs Fiji and he was playing well vs Wales till his injury.

His injury really damaged England's chances of beating Wales and Australia.

Billy V has had an immense season.

Itoje had 30 consecutive victories as a starter for club and country.

Of course he won MOTM in quarter finals,semi finals and final of the HC and won European player of the year.


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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:02 am

Two AB players included from a side that has won 18 games on the trot...............

Where is that Skudder guy?

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Post by profitius on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:06 am

Has to be Beauden B.
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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:07 am

Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Conor Murray should be on the list.
Wasn't he badly off form for much of this year?

He had a couple of bad games alright but some really good games.
He's improved but I wouldn't say he's done enough to be shortlisted though. He's not up there with the likes of Aaron Smith (before his misdemeanour).


He has a fairly similar points per match record as Smith and to be honest I think he is a much more rounded player than Smith. Smith is a better passer but a worse defender and not as good at making breaks. Murray is a better player now and TJ Perenara the second best SH in the world IMO not Smith.

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Post by Sin é on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:10 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Certainly some odd ones, but don't they have them every year? I wonder who decided the list of nominees and how?


There is an expert panel - don't know who exactly is on it at the moment, but the system was explained back in 2009 when Brian O'Driscoll missed out on world player of the year to Dan Carter I think.

Basically, there is a committee of about 6 or 8 experts - people like Keith Wood (who was on the 2009 one), Philip Contempomi, maybe Sean Fitzpatrick etc. They watch each game and selected 2 players from each game and give points on their effectiveness and contribution to their team's efforts. Players can miss out if they are injured as they will not accumulate points- the more you play, the better your chances of winning. It is only based on international rugby.


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Post by rodders on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:10 am

Has to be Itoje.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:13 am

Sin é wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Certainly some odd ones, but don't they have them every year? I wonder who decided the list of nominees and how?


There is an expert panel - don't know who exactly is on it at the moment, but the system was explained back in 2009 when Brian O'Driscoll missed out on world player of the year to Dan Carter I think.



He missed out to a guy who only played half a season and kinda admitted himself that he didn't deserve it that year.

Oops!..... The Player of the Year is a Political Football?  Who'd have guessed? Wink

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:17 am

Shouldn't England have more nominations as they are the only unbeaten side this year Whistle

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:21 am

The year ain't over yet.

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Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:23 am

Both shortlists were selected by independent panels featuring former internationals and members of the media, who deliberated on every major test from the Six Nations through to those on November 5.

The men’s panel is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999-winning captain John Eales and comprises former players Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Chris Paterson, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace as well as journalists Pierre Galy (AFP), Stephen Jones (The Sunday Times), Jim Kayes (TV3) and Sergio Stuart (Ole, Argentina).

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:28 am

Stephen Jones.... Well that explains a few things.

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Post by rodders on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:29 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Both shortlists were selected by independent panels featuring former internationals and members of the media, who deliberated on every major test from the Six Nations through to those on November 5.

The men’s panel is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999-winning captain John Eales and comprises former players Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Chris Paterson, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace as well as journalists Pierre Galy (AFP), Stephen Jones (The Sunday Times), Jim Kayes (TV3) and Sergio Stuart (Ole, Argentina).

So basically the sky sports panel.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:30 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Both shortlists were selected by independent panels featuring former internationals and members of the media, who deliberated on every major test from the Six Nations through to those on November 5.

The men’s panel is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999-winning captain John Eales and comprises former players Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Chris Paterson, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace as well as journalists Pierre Galy (AFP), Stephen Jones (The Sunday Times), Jim Kayes (TV3) and Sergio Stuart (Ole, Argentina).

Pfft, what would those guys know about the game....... Whistle

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:30 am

Stephen Jones counts as a second English so that's a little unfair. There are also to Kiwis and two Argies. What a weird panel.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:31 am

rodders wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Both shortlists were selected by independent panels featuring former internationals and members of the media, who deliberated on every major test from the Six Nations through to those on November 5.

The men’s panel is chaired by Australia’s RWC 1999-winning captain John Eales and comprises former players Will Greenwood, Raphaël Ibanez, Francois Pienaar, Chris Paterson, Agustín Pichot, Scott Quinnell, Tana Umaga and Paul Wallace as well as journalists Pierre Galy (AFP), Stephen Jones (The Sunday Times), Jim Kayes (TV3) and Sergio Stuart (Ole, Argentina).

So basically the sky sports panel.

Laugh

No bias there then.

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Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:45 am

Stephen Jones is Welsh...
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:46 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:Stephen Jones is Welsh...

Only at a token Level at this point.... Whistle

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Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:50 am

GunsGerms wrote:Stephen Jones counts as a second English so that's a little unfair. There are also to Kiwis and two Argies. What a weird panel.


Why does a pro Wales Welshman count as English?!
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:50 am

SecretFly wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Stephen Jones is Welsh...

Only at a token Level at this point....  Whistle
He's biased towards the Welsh rugby set up as well!
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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:51 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Stephen Jones counts as a second English so that's a little unfair. There are also to Kiwis and two Argies. What a weird panel.


Why does a pro Wales Welshman count as English?!

Because he is more pro England.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:53 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:Stephen Jones is Welsh...

Only at a token Level at this point....  Whistle
He's biased towards the Welsh rugby set up as well!

He loves you guys. Just accept the love, Chequered. It don't come from many Welshmen if you're an Englishman Wink

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Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:53 am

He's just not though. He's pro making outlandish selections of a few personal favourites, some English but many Welsh, dissing New Zealand, making claims he knows will never be tested and slagging off Stuart Lancaster and jumping on bandwagons late. He's also pro building up players only to tear them down again, but not actually pro the English side, as you'll see from any player match up he ever gives
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Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:54 am

He also is probably the only person possible that can completely counteract the rugby knowledge and insight of the rest of that panel
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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:57 am

Yes, this award doesn't cover the World Cup. That was last year's award.

Interesting ref nominations. Peyper, Garces, Rasivhenge (mainly 7s, with 15s Super Rugby action from this season) & Nievas (Womens).

World sevens players: Kolinisau (Fiji) Senatla (SA) Vakatawa (France)

England are nominated for Team of the Year but that's obviously going to Fiji Sevens.

Coach of the year is tricky, as Ben Ryan, Hansen & Jones are up for it. Hansen might get a second snub in a row, because a lot of people will want to acknowledge Ryan.

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 11:59 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:He's just not though. He's pro making outlandish selections of a few personal favourites, some English but many Welsh, dissing New Zealand, making claims he knows will never be tested and slagging off Stuart Lancaster and jumping on bandwagons late. He's also pro building up players only to tear them down again, but not actually pro the English side, as you'll see from any player match up he ever gives

He is a head case.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 12:05 pm

Jones has done a tremendous job with England but it can't go to anyone other than Hansen - if anyone thinks otherwise then you haven't been watching NZ play rugby.

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Post by Cyril on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 12:07 pm

GunsGerms wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGerms wrote:Conor Murray should be on the list.
Wasn't he badly off form for much of this year?

He had a couple of bad games alright but some really good games.
He's improved but I wouldn't say he's done enough to be shortlisted though. He's not up there with the likes of Aaron Smith (before his misdemeanour).


He has a fairly similar points per match record as Smith and to be honest I think he is a much more rounded player than Smith. Smith is a better passer but a worse defender and not as good at making breaks. Murray is a better player now and TJ Perenara the second best SH in the world IMO not Smith.
Sorry, but that's crazy talk Shocked

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 12:08 pm

beshocked wrote:...Of course he won MOTM in quarter finals,semi finals and final of the HC and won European player of the year.
World Rugby awards are for performances in international matches, not club/region/province/franchise fixtures.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 12:09 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Jones has done a tremendous job with England but it can't go to anyone other than Hansen - if anyone thinks otherwise then you haven't been watching NZ play rugby.

There seems to a case in these contests that there is often a clear cut top candidate, a clear cut low end candidate (let's call them token inclusions to make up the numbers) and then there is the guy in the middle that most people want to pick because it allows them to show/pretend that their knowledge of rugby is more esoteric/greater than the people who would automatically choose the obvious best Wink

These polls always bring out that strange trait and often keeps the top prize from going to the top contender.

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Post by GunsGerms on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 12:09 pm

Smith is criticised in NZ for his running game so its fair to say Murray who makes a lot of breaks is better in that dept. Smith is a little squirt (former hairdresser) so its also fair to say Murray is much more physical and a better defended. Where is the craziness?

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 12:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Jones has done a tremendous job with England but it can't go to anyone other than Hansen - if anyone thinks otherwise then you haven't been watching NZ play rugby.
Ryan making history with Fiji has a pretty strong case.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 12:25 pm

Best 7s team in the world, who also happen to be one of the best in the world every single year win a trophy - not much there. Could say the same about NZ I guess, but it's the manner in how a team that good could improve under Hansen since the RWC that stands out - they're newest winning streak was always coming to an end, just didn't see it being against Ireland in Chicago.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 1:14 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Best 7s team in the world, who also happen to be one of the best in the world every single year win a trophy - not much there.
Fiji hadn't won the world sevens title for 10 years until Ryan took over. He got them to the title last year, and this year went one better by doing a world and Olympic double.

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World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll Empty Re: World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 1:19 pm

So basically the world cup to now and only for international tests and not clubs. Barrett for me, followed by Vunipola.

No 7&1/2

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World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll Empty Re: World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll

Post by Cyril on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 2:52 pm

I can't see beyond Barrett. He's been phenomenal, even if he can't kick. Like the rest of the NZ side he had a poor game on the weekend, but that one-off game doesn't take away from his stellar year.

Cyril

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World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll Empty Re: World Rugby Player of the Year and V2 poll

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