The Donald Trump Incredulity Thread

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 8:36 am

First topic message reminder :

I know that this doesn't relate to rugby, but feel free to say what you want about the 45th (and presumably final) president of the United States.

A man John Oliver once described as "a large clown made of dessicated foreskin and cotton candy".
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 12:12 pm

Gwlad wrote:I do enjoy seeing a Trump supporter offer more reasoned argument than the man he is supporting is actually capable of expressing himself. Bodes well for the future prosperity and security of the free world.

It's also amusing to see someone claim that he won't justify voting for Trump - perhaps because given the medium of reasoned argument its an indefensible position- and then proceed to justify voting for him ad nauseam.

That's the great thing about being a Trumpeter, secret or not, you don't have to justify anything. Anti reason is the true Winner, it makes you cooler and Trumpier, a collective wallow in the banality of bigoted ignorance where to be ignorant is a benchmark of how low you've sunk. The lower the better right? A vote for Trump isn't nihilist (please), to vote Trump means ignorance has actually triumphed again as it did in the UK, make no mistake.

Truth is, to support Trump all you need is to be inherently weak, a sheep sucked in with a lot more sheep, by a Hitler-esque pedagogue,
a man who doesn't actually want to be President of the USA but does wants to exploit the power and privilege that adorns such a grave office Ask yourself do you really identify with and support a racist, bigoted misogynist idiot with the IQ of, well, a Trump supporter?

Watch as he reaps what you and yours have sown. He will de-construct global security, destroy the global economy (while advertising his daughter's jewelry) and with it millions of lives will be destroyed while he ignores the killing of more innocents as he starts his first war - this is one President we know will be a war President.

He breeds hate and misunderstanding at a time when we need hope, compassion and stability in the White House.

Yes, America has been listening to all that for........... how long? - It's been so long now that I forget.  Months - lots of months.  America has been listening to all that.  They then went and voted for Trump.  They thank you and others for the alternate view.  It's always good to go to the voting booths with a rounded view on the issues involved.  

It'll take a while for the Post Traumatic Shock to wear off on the people who kept telling Americans they were the dumbest breed on the planet yet still hoped they had enough sense to vote for the Woman they didn't want so as to placate the epidemic of fear and hysteria around the world from a certain bunch of people they didn't like.  Americans proved not to be that dumb though and remembered just at the right time that they wanted the wild boy and not the woman.

Progressives.  The names keep changing.  No longer 'Liberal' but 'Progressive'.  I understand the change.  Those Young Turk eejits expressed it well on the Night.  The new way against Trumpism is to now challenge Democracy itself (oh and go dip schidt crazy when democracy wins Wink ).  To hell with Liberty for those folks - some grand empty catchphrases like "Hope, Compassion and Stability" now need to be imposed.  The fools who voted for Trump don't deserve a vote.  We need prisons and concentration camps for the stubborn basterdes who just keep getting in the way with their Goddamned Vote!

If you want a good laugh, look at those Turk young boys (looking pretty middle aged to me, btw) - but look at them as they crowed like cocks at the beginning of the night when they thought their gal was gonna win; and then watch the gradual meltdown of sanity when reality hit the fan.  

The American Election in genuinely the Greatest Democracy on the Planet was absolutely first class comedy - all the way.  I thank all participants for the entertainment - including all you contributors here on 606.  What a party. OK

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 12:16 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


clap

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 2:08 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?...
Gee, thanks. Baaa!

I accept what you're saying but, no, I don't think all Trumpeters are exactly alike, or even have infinitesimally small IQs. However, based on what he's said and done, I'm not sure how people voted for him really. Sure, the apparently myriad racists and right wing wackos were always going to, but I presume the so-called 'rust belt' etc that went for him in big numbers did so out of desperation, despite knowing he's an utter c0ck and an obvious fraud.

I guess at the basic level, people have priorities and they prioritised the idea that Trump could magic them jobs/decent pay as significantly higher than anything else and worth going for even if the misogynistic, lying turd has no, and never had any, chance of pulling that trick off. I wonder what I'd have done in their situation? Dunno actually, but I hope I wouldn't have voted for Trump.

Some decent points in that linked article, so thanks for posting that.
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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 2:15 pm

In effect what the Americans have done is protested the exploitation and the low wages by voting for the guy who does those things. Seems about as wise as responding to taunts about your intelligence by picking a fist fight with a professional boxer.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 2:16 pm

The challenge for the left now is to produce a coherent argument for reform. Centre-right neoliberalism has quite obviously failed in its stated aim to allow wealth to trickle down from rich to poor. The wealth gap now looms larger than ever.

The right has won the day recently with the Trump and Brexit votes. They have provided convenient and low-hanging scapegoats in immigrants and Muslims and the left, to their shame, have either pandered to these arguments, ignored them or, worse, sneered at them. I count myself as one of these people. It's easy to sneer. It requires no effort.

But now we're at a point where Britain has effectively shot itself in the foot with Brexit and we have a right-wing, populist fraud as President-elect of the USA. Worse still, and this is something that isn't picked up on nearly enough, we have a truly dangerous, xenophobic, homophobic evangelical maniac as VP.

The left needs to present its argument in a different way. No more sneering. How do you expect to capture the votes of the desperately poor by ridiculing them? No, solutions must be offered. Sanders started well and was cheated out of his spot at the table, hopefully the DNC have learned their lesson from that. He and Corbyn must fight the already hostile press and try to get their argument across in a constructive way.

Neoliberalism has failed the people but hard-line conservatism and fascism cannot be allowed a free run.

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 2:57 pm

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/you-are-still-crying-wolf/

Haven't had time to read all this, but from what i've seen so far it's a pretty good read and try's to put a bit of perspective it on it all.

(top answer their Pr4wn, I think we need to start moving away from labelling each other left/right or whatever and start looking at what we think are good ideas and why)

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:22 pm

Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


If that makes me a sheep the I am a proud and woolly one. Baaaaaaah.

If Americans were disillusioned (spelt correctly) and ignored (whatever that means) then they should have voted Bernie as a candidate. To protest Trumpeters and Trump is not to condone Hillary and I understand that a sector of American society took their chance to destroy Obama's legacy. Point is Trump won't deliver on anything, has already 180 reversed on various issues and the ultimate case of bait and switch. Amercians bought the lie, just like the Brexiteers.

I live in North America but luckily not in the USA; it has suddenly become a very,very uneasy place.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:24 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


clap

Thanks for underlining my point, a pity you can't make a reasoned reply yourself thumbsup

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Post by Guest on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:35 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


If that makes me a sheep the I am a proud and woolly one. Baaaaaaah.

If Americans were disillusioned (spelt correctly) and ignored (whatever that means) then they should have voted Bernie as a candidate. To protest Trumpeters and Trump is not to condone Hillary and I understand that a sector of American society took their chance to destroy Obama's legacy. Point is Trump won't deliver on anything, has already 180 reversed on various issues and the ultimate case of bait and switch. Amercians bought the lie, just like the Brexiteers.

I live in North America but luckily not in the USA; it has suddenly become a very,very uneasy place.

Sanders was taken out of the running after being betrayed by the DNC, and the lies of DNC Chairman, Debbie Schultz.

The Republican Party isn't at fault for the loss. The Democrats are, including Obama and Clinton.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:35 pm

Gwlad wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


clap

Thanks for underlining my point, a pity you can't make a reasoned reply yourself thumbsup

Oh get off my back, Gwlad - I carried the entire Trump campaign virtually alone on this damn site - apart from a few welcome intercessions from Profitius Wink  I deserve a rest, I worked hard on that one. Cool  Hell, I even deserve a slice of the action!  A role in Trump's Red Button Room would prove his gratitude.

Meanwhile, reasoned stuff is everywhere - read through the treads - this one included.  But yeah, it takes reason to decipher reason.  Wearing a blindfold won't help you OK


Last edited by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:40 pm

Gwlad wrote:

I live in North America but luckily not in the USA; it has suddenly become a very,very uneasy place.

Suddenly? Just exactly what Planet circling North America have you been on this last 20 or so years? Everything has become uneasy with Trump hitting office? You forget Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, 911, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Bodybags etc etc? What age are most of you people?

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:44 pm

Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:48 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


If that makes me a sheep the I am a proud and woolly one. Baaaaaaah.

If Americans were disillusioned (spelt correctly) and ignored (whatever that means) then they should have voted Bernie as a candidate. To protest Trumpeters and Trump is not to condone Hillary and I understand that a sector of American society took their chance to destroy Obama's legacy. Point is Trump won't deliver on anything, has already 180 reversed on various issues and the ultimate case of bait and switch. Amercians bought the lie, just like the Brexiteers.

I live in North America but luckily not in the USA; it has suddenly become a very,very uneasy place.

Sanders was taken out of the running after being betrayed by the DNC, and the lies of DNC Chairman, Debbie Schultz.

The Republican Party isn't at fault for the loss. The Democrats are, including Obama and Clinton.

I don't disagree that the Democrats are significantly to blame for this but I'mm not that interested in the result. What interests me is the galactically naive myopia that Trumpeters have all bought into in some mass lemming like leap they've taken into the depths of human depravity. Hitler roused public opinion by identifying a hate group and persecuting them, we had a Holocaust as a result. Sound familiar?

The GOP is a lame duck. If it supports Trump he will take it down with him because rest assured that is his trajectory; he should know the first person he should fire is himself but anyway, in 4 years there'll be a Democrat back in office. If GOP lets him fail to ease Ryan's path then it fails. Unless Trump produces on his promises those red neck gun toting boys will have something to say, mark my words.

US party politics' rulebook just got thrown out the window. We have a celebrity with bad hair in the White house and some folks actually want that. It's got to make you laugh. Either way, 4 more years is all is required and sense and some level of morality above the proverbial gutter will prevail again.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:52 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

Grow up.  
Accept that someone won and someone lost.  To say America has 'suddenly' become an 'uneasy' place is absolute rubbish. It's also an insult to the people who died in school killings, in wars, the people who feared just how far Bush and his war hawks would go, the blacks who have been shot dead by police for just being black.

Grow up - stop sulking and stop insulting the past by claiming melodramatic twitter tears and comical over-reactions from the media to the election of a legitimate candidate is a more uneasy time than America has been through even in the very recent past.  Trump wasn't in power - who was?

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 6:11 pm

Why should anyone accept something they see as inherently very bad? If someone in power is racist, is it better to protest against it or accept it and do nothing?
Do you wish to clamp down on protests against government?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 6:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

Grow up.  
Accept that someone won and someone lost.  To say America has 'suddenly' become an 'uneasy' place is absolute rubbish.   It's also an insult to the people who died in school killings, in wars, the people who feared just how far Bush and his war hawks would go, the blacks who have been shot dead by police for just being black.

Grow up - stop sulking and stop insulting the past by claiming melodramatic twitter tears and comical over-reactions from the media to the election of a legitimate candidate is a more uneasy time than America has been through even in the very recent past.  Trump wasn't in power - who was?

Well said Flyboy - proving to me yet again that not everybody in Ireland is as daft as Sin Hug

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 6:31 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

Not those with their heads inserted somewhere clearly. thumbsup

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 6:50 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

Grow up.  
Accept that someone won and someone lost.  To say America has 'suddenly' become an 'uneasy' place is absolute rubbish.   It's also an insult to the people who died in school killings, in wars, the people who feared just how far Bush and his war hawks would go, the blacks who have been shot dead by police for just being black.

Grow up - stop sulking and stop insulting the past by claiming melodramatic twitter tears and comical over-reactions from the media to the election of a legitimate candidate is a more uneasy time than America has been through even in the very recent past.  Trump wasn't in power - who was?

This is Secret in a nutshell, everyone. Uses nice long words to create the flimsiest of arguments. If someone doesn't like the result, they shouldn't just accept it. Particularly, as Julius said, when they feel that the winner is a bigot of monumental proportions.

It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon. Young women do not know whether they will lose control over their bodies when it comes to having - or not having - a child soon. Gay and trans people also don't fully know what their rights will be soon. Muslims don't know whether they will have to sign up to a ridiculous Nazi-style register soon.

Of course much of America is uneasy after this election.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:08 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Why should anyone accept something they see as inherently very bad? If someone in power is racist, is it better to protest against it or accept it and do nothing?
Do you wish to clamp down on protests against government?

So don't accept it.  Start the Revolution because you no longer like Democracy, because it doesn't reflect your values anymore.  Start the Revolution in the UK too because the majority didn't vote according to your wishes.  Get on with the Revolution.  
Isn't revolutionary protest the very objective of those who put Trump in?  Aren't they tired listening to the old arguments that often appear here too?  They don't give a damn about meanings of 'globalisation', 'neo-liberalism', 'populism'.  Didn't they vote for their particular protest revolution?       

Let the protesters do what they like - Brexit and now the US elections.  I'm not about to try shutting anyone up.  I enjoy debate and arguing differing views - can't people tell with the 'ad nauseam' stuff? Shocked    Let the unhappy people cry, insult, sneer, attack (verbally!), belittle, ostracize  in any way they like to vent their disappointment.  To me a lot of it is quite entertaining.  Why would I try to suppress wonderful entertainment?  

But don't expect apologies, or words of contrition, or bended-knee sobs of sorrow from those that happen to arrive, at this point in time, on the Right side of the voting.  You win, you lose.  Someone won.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:11 pm

You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:18 pm

Pr4wn wrote:

This is Secret in a nutshell, everyone. Uses nice long words to create the flimsiest of arguments. If someone doesn't like the result, they shouldn't just accept it. Particularly, as Julius said, when they feel that the winner is a bigot of monumental proportions.

It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon. Young women do not know whether they will lose control over their bodies when it comes to having - or not having - a child soon. Gay and trans people also don't fully know what their rights will be soon. Muslims don't know whether they will have to sign up to a ridiculous Nazi-style register soon.

Of course much of America is uneasy after this election.

It's rubbish to say America has 'suddenly' become uneasy. You go ahead and join the Revolution though. I'm sure when you win, I'll be hunted down for Previous Thought Crime and Off With My Head OK

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:20 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this? Play with words though because I love them.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:30 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:

This is Secret in a nutshell, everyone. Uses nice long words to create the flimsiest of arguments. If someone doesn't like the result, they shouldn't just accept it. Particularly, as Julius said, when they feel that the winner is a bigot of monumental proportions.

It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon. Young women do not know whether they will lose control over their bodies when it comes to having - or not having - a child soon. Gay and trans people also don't fully know what their rights will be soon. Muslims don't know whether they will have to sign up to a ridiculous Nazi-style register soon.

Of course much of America is uneasy after this election.

It's rubbish to say America has 'suddenly' become uneasy.  You go ahead and join the Revolution though.  I'm sure when you win, I'll be hunted down for Previous Thought Crime and Off With My Head  OK    

I honestly don't know what you're on about. There is no revolution. As has been established by nearly everyone except you, protest and revolution are extremely different things.

And it's not rubbish at all, because it has. Trump wasn't expected to win and now he's the president-elect. Please refer to my earlier post for examples of how people may be suddenly uneasy.

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Post by Guest on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:30 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

Grow up.  
Accept that someone won and someone lost.  To say America has 'suddenly' become an 'uneasy' place is absolute rubbish.   It's also an insult to the people who died in school killings, in wars, the people who feared just how far Bush and his war hawks would go, the blacks who have been shot dead by police for just being black.

Grow up - stop sulking and stop insulting the past by claiming melodramatic twitter tears and comical over-reactions from the media to the election of a legitimate candidate is a more uneasy time than America has been through even in the very recent past.  Trump wasn't in power - who was?

This is Secret in a nutshell, everyone. Uses nice long words to create the flimsiest of arguments. If someone doesn't like the result, they shouldn't just accept it. Particularly, as Julius said, when they feel that the winner is a bigot of monumental proportions.

It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon. Young women do not know whether they will lose control over their bodies when it comes to having - or not having - a child soon. Gay and trans people also don't fully know what their rights will be soon. Muslims don't know whether they will have to sign up to a ridiculous Nazi-style register soon.

Of course much of America is uneasy after this election.

There's no need to get personal.

Fly makes valid points. I would never have voted Trump, but Hilary isn't much better. The hard truth is that many in the US feel left behind, and they are. I don't believe Trump will deliver what they want, what they need, but they lost trust in the alternative. Rock and a hard place for many. They feel trapped and placed their hope in change.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore milk is ice-cream.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:33 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

Grow up.  
Accept that someone won and someone lost.  To say America has 'suddenly' become an 'uneasy' place is absolute rubbish.   It's also an insult to the people who died in school killings, in wars, the people who feared just how far Bush and his war hawks would go, the blacks who have been shot dead by police for just being black.

Grow up - stop sulking and stop insulting the past by claiming melodramatic twitter tears and comical over-reactions from the media to the election of a legitimate candidate is a more uneasy time than America has been through even in the very recent past.  Trump wasn't in power - who was?

This is Secret in a nutshell, everyone. Uses nice long words to create the flimsiest of arguments. If someone doesn't like the result, they shouldn't just accept it. Particularly, as Julius said, when they feel that the winner is a bigot of monumental proportions.

It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon. Young women do not know whether they will lose control over their bodies when it comes to having - or not having - a child soon. Gay and trans people also don't fully know what their rights will be soon. Muslims don't know whether they will have to sign up to a ridiculous Nazi-style register soon.

Of course much of America is uneasy after this election.

There's no need to get personal.

Fly makes valid points. I would never have voted Trump, but Hilary isn't much better. The hard truth is that many in the US feel left behind, and they are. I don't believe Trump will deliver what they want, what they need, but they lost trust in the alternative. Rock and a hard place for many. They feel trapped and placed their hope in change.

I disagree with you when you say that Hillary isn't much better. She's much better. She knows what she's doing, for a start.

But I do agree with you when you talk about how many in the US feel left behind. I made a post earlier today saying that Liberals have to produce a more coherent argument to win over voters. Sneering and calling all Trump voters racist (something that I'm sure I've done in the past) is just destructive to the cause.

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Post by Guest on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:37 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


If that makes me a sheep the I am a proud and woolly one. Baaaaaaah.

If Americans were disillusioned (spelt correctly) and ignored (whatever that means) then they should have voted Bernie as a candidate. To protest Trumpeters and Trump is not to condone Hillary and I understand that a sector of American society took their chance to destroy Obama's legacy. Point is Trump won't deliver on anything, has already 180 reversed on various issues and the ultimate case of bait and switch. Amercians bought the lie, just like the Brexiteers.

I live in North America but luckily not in the USA; it has suddenly become a very,very uneasy place.

Sanders was taken out of the running after being betrayed by the DNC, and the lies of DNC Chairman, Debbie Schultz.

The Republican Party isn't at fault for the loss. The Democrats are, including Obama and Clinton.

I don't disagree that the Democrats are significantly to blame for this but I'mm not that interested in the result. What interests me is the galactically naive myopia that Trumpeters have all bought into in some mass lemming like leap they've taken into the depths of human depravity. Hitler roused public opinion by identifying a hate group and persecuting them, we had a Holocaust as a result. Sound familiar?

The GOP is a lame duck. If it supports Trump he will take it down with him because rest assured that is his trajectory; he should know the first person he should fire is himself but anyway, in 4 years there'll be a Democrat back in office. If GOP lets him fail to ease Ryan's path then it fails. Unless Trump produces on his promises those red neck gun toting boys will have something to say, mark my words.

US party politics' rulebook just got thrown out the window. We have a celebrity with bad hair in the White house and some folks actually want that. It's got to make you laugh. Either way, 4 more years is all is required and sense and some level of morality above the proverbial gutter will prevail again.

Maybe many feel they are already at the bottom. Desperate people may take desperate measures. Nothing to lose and maybe something to gain. It might seem incredibly stupid to us, but we don't live in their world.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:40 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

You certainly love to twist them, rather than engage in mature debate Smile

I accept that you are happy to support someone you know to be racist, a sexual predator etc. I accept that you scoff at the fears of others rather than have any sympathy for them,  would rather mock them than do anything to ease those fears. I accept that people like you exist.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:43 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore milk is ice-cream.

Whistle

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore you use milk to make ice-cream. Keep going.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:47 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore milk is ice-cream.

Whistle

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream.  Therefore you use milk to make ice-cream.  Keep going.

Milk is always used to make ice-cream.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:47 pm

We need some unity, and this is the best I can do

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3935094/Bizarre-birther-theory-suggests-Donald-Trump-born-PAKISTAN-adopted-taken-America-parents-died-car-accident.html#comments

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:49 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

You certainly love to twist them, rather than engage in mature debate Smile

I accept that you are happy to support someone you know to be racist, a sexual predator etc. I accept that you scoff at the fears of others rather than have any sympathy for them,  would rather mock them than do anything to ease those fears. I accept that people like you exist.

And I accept you wouldn't be a person who agrees with Pr4's more reasonable point that sneering about racism isn't the progressive way to go.

And tell me there - honestly - had Hillary won, would you be here trying to soothe the disappointment of people in that - as it was called earlier - "alleged Rustbelt"?

Would you? Would you give a damn about those white boy ex-blue-collar Bible thumping workers? Would you? Any comments up here over the months where you've maybe mentioned their concerns about the things in life that impact on them?

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 7:50 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore milk is ice-cream.

Whistle

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream.  Therefore you use milk to make ice-cream.  Keep going.

Milk is always used to make ice-cream.

No it isn't.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Derbymanc wrote:Gwlad and Navy showing exactly why people like Trump end up winning. Surely by lumping all and sundry into one basket shows you as the sheep as you can't imagine anyone thinking different than you?

For the record, i can't stand Trump, wouldn't have voted for him but can see a whole swath of America being dissilusioned (*spelling) and being ignored, I've linked an article from cracked to help explain why some people voted Trump (from a trump hating website btw)

http://www.cracked.com/blog/dont-panic/


clap

Witnessed the same comedy gold from Blue Jeans and his band of unbiased and unbigoted (laughing )mods post-Brexit too. Thank god common sense prevailed in the US as it did in the U.K. #gettingTrumped #teambrexit

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Post by Guest on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:06 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Oh cut it out Secret, you know exactly what it means. Stop splitting hairs in another dire attempt at humour.

He means that North America has become more uneasy since the election. Everyone can see that.

Grow up.  
Accept that someone won and someone lost.  To say America has 'suddenly' become an 'uneasy' place is absolute rubbish.   It's also an insult to the people who died in school killings, in wars, the people who feared just how far Bush and his war hawks would go, the blacks who have been shot dead by police for just being black.

Grow up - stop sulking and stop insulting the past by claiming melodramatic twitter tears and comical over-reactions from the media to the election of a legitimate candidate is a more uneasy time than America has been through even in the very recent past.  Trump wasn't in power - who was?

This is Secret in a nutshell, everyone. Uses nice long words to create the flimsiest of arguments. If someone doesn't like the result, they shouldn't just accept it. Particularly, as Julius said, when they feel that the winner is a bigot of monumental proportions.

It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon. Young women do not know whether they will lose control over their bodies when it comes to having - or not having - a child soon. Gay and trans people also don't fully know what their rights will be soon. Muslims don't know whether they will have to sign up to a ridiculous Nazi-style register soon.

Of course much of America is uneasy after this election.

There's no need to get personal.

Fly makes valid points. I would never have voted Trump, but Hilary isn't much better. The hard truth is that many in the US feel left behind, and they are. I don't believe Trump will deliver what they want, what they need, but they lost trust in the alternative. Rock and a hard place for many. They feel trapped and placed their hope in change.

I disagree with you when you say that Hillary isn't much better. She's much better. She knows what she's doing, for a start.

But I do agree with you when you talk about how many in the US feel left behind. I made a post earlier today saying that Liberals have to produce a more coherent argument to win over voters. Sneering and calling all Trump voters racist (something that I'm sure I've done in the past) is just destructive to the cause.

It is destructive, and destructive because there is no 'one size fits all' It's wrong to say all who voted for Trump are racist, and I'm sure many will have been very offended by that. Just as I'm sure there are racists on both sides, I'm also sure there are many rational beings on both sides who are not racist in the slightest. Immigrants also voted for Trump.

I think all the name calling is distracting from the real issues that culminated in the election of Trump. Maybe that's what the politicians want.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:11 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon.

It's been an uneasy and a divided country for over 12 months.
Three million of the eleven million illegal immigrants are to be sent home according to Trump, so will be forced back to their homes, I guess.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:14 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

That's what Paul Weller said though...

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:16 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore milk is ice-cream.

Whistle

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream.  Therefore you use milk to make ice-cream.  Keep going.

Milk is always used to make ice-cream.

No it isn't.

picard

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:19 pm

You brought up the milk.

You done with the milk analogies then?

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:35 pm

No, Secret. You just proved my point.

Debating with you is very testing, due to your lack of any kind of understanding.

Here goes:

You were assimilating protest to revolution. It was pointed out that they are very different from one another. I came up with the milk analogy.
You pointed out that milk can be used to make ice-cream, which is true. I then took the Michael out of you by sarcastically writing that milk is always used to make ice-cream which is obviously isn't. Saying that milk is always used to make ice-cream is, in this instance, akin to saying that protest always turns into revolution, which it obviously doesn't.

Have you caught up yet?

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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:03 pm

lol

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:05 pm

Pr4wn wrote:No, Secret. You just proved my point.

Debating with you is very testing, due to your lack of any kind of understanding.

Here goes:

You were assimilating protest to revolution. It was pointed out that they are very different from one another. I came up with the milk analogy.
You pointed out that milk can be used to make ice-cream, which is true. I then took the Michael out of you by sarcastically writing that milk is always used to make ice-cream which is obviously isn't. Saying that milk is always used to make ice-cream is, in this instance, akin to saying that protest always turns into revolution, which it obviously doesn't.

Have you caught up yet?

Shocked So in short, you're still willing to talk about milk?


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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:11 pm

Have a lie down, mate. You're obviously tired.

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Post by Hero on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:14 pm

I'm getting an ice cream after all that.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:15 pm

Maybe popcorn would be more appropriate.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:20 pm

The story of Milk: contd.

Milk isn't always used to make ice-cream
- but milk is used to make ice-cream.  
Protest doesn't Always turn into Revolution
- but protest does, and often has turned into Revolution.  

Protest has a high affinity with Revolution.  

QED

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:21 pm

..and I'll throw in a bag of popcorn free 'cause I'm a nice The Donald Trump Incredulity Thread - Page 14 1347041234

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:22 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Protest doesn't Always turn into Revolution
- but protest does, and often has turned into Revolution.  

No, it doesn't often turn into revolution. You're just making yourself look stupid now.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:28 pm

You're losing your noble notions that you expressed earlier, Pr4.  I feared it wouldn't last. Wink

You always know you have a cat cornered when it hisses and shows the old claws.


Last edited by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:31 pm

Secret, what you said is completely fatuous. Protest has not "often" turned into revolution.

Protest very rarely turns into revolution. Sorry to take that last little straw that you're clutching on to.

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