The Donald Trump Incredulity Thread

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 09 Nov 2016, 8:36 am

First topic message reminder :

I know that this doesn't relate to rugby, but feel free to say what you want about the 45th (and presumably final) president of the United States.

A man John Oliver once described as "a large clown made of dessicated foreskin and cotton candy".
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:32 pm

It has often turned into Revolution.

Just admit to the affinity between both and we'll move on from milk.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:34 pm

It has rarely turned into revolution. How many protests have there been in the USA since the revolution? Thousands?

I freely admit the affinity between both, hence the analogy.

Your lack of any ability to understand this is staggering.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:52 pm

Pr4wn wrote:It has rarely turned into revolution. How many protests have there been in the USA since the revolution? Thousands?

I freely admit the affinity between both, hence the analogy.

Your lack of any ability to understand this is staggering.

The milk analogy was distinctly presented to lessen the perception of affinity.  I'm glad you've decided to spill the milk.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:54 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

You certainly love to twist them, rather than engage in mature debate Smile

I accept that you are happy to support someone you know to be racist, a sexual predator etc. I accept that you scoff at the fears of others rather than have any sympathy for them,  would rather mock them than do anything to ease those fears. I accept that people like you exist.

And I accept you wouldn't be a person who agrees with Pr4's more reasonable point that sneering about racism isn't the progressive way to go.

And tell me there - honestly - had Hillary won, would you be here trying to soothe the disappointment of people in that - as it was called earlier - "alleged Rustbelt"?

Would you?  Would you give a damn about those white boy ex-blue-collar Bible thumping workers?  Would you?  Any comments up here over the months where you've maybe mentioned their concerns about the things in life that impact on them?

Those left behind in the Rust Belt - and the UK equivalent - are a scandal. I wouldn't have voted for Trump or Clinton. So yes, I would, and still do give a damn - because Trump ain't going to help them, but they're not protesting because they haven't realised it yet.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 10:10 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

You certainly love to twist them, rather than engage in mature debate Smile

I accept that you are happy to support someone you know to be racist, a sexual predator etc. I accept that you scoff at the fears of others rather than have any sympathy for them,  would rather mock them than do anything to ease those fears. I accept that people like you exist.

And I accept you wouldn't be a person who agrees with Pr4's more reasonable point that sneering about racism isn't the progressive way to go.

And tell me there - honestly - had Hillary won, would you be here trying to soothe the disappointment of people in that - as it was called earlier - "alleged Rustbelt"?

Would you?  Would you give a damn about those white boy ex-blue-collar Bible thumping workers?  Would you?  Any comments up here over the months where you've maybe mentioned their concerns about the things in life that impact on them?

Those left behind in the Rust Belt - and the UK equivalent - are a scandal. I wouldn't have voted for Trump or Clinton. So yes, I would, and still do give a damn - because Trump ain't going to help them, but they're not protesting because they haven't realised it yet.

Well at least now we're getting somewhere.  You - and many others, especially outside the US, wouldn't have voted for perhaps either and it seems certainly wouldn't have voted for Trump.  
So be it, that's fine.  Everyone looks at the topics, everyone follows their own sources of news, everyone comes with their own series of preference bias on lifestyle and social and economic issues.  Fine.  We're all different - all over the world.  When certain interest groups try to pretend that we're all the same, with common values and concerns, the real world keeps acting up and proving to them that they're fools for thinking so - and perhaps greater fools for trying to impose so.

But anyway, so the point is, Julius - and it has always been the point - Americans, a great bulk of them -on this occasion - when met with concerns about topics that make them fearful and irritate them and annoy them; on this occasion, they decided this guy Trump was their route to Hope.  They don't care what the rest of the world think - this time they voted in enough numbers to get the person they wanted.  Trump may turn out not to be the guy they wanted.  Trump may be a sham.  But that can't have any part in their decision to vote according to their conscience for the hopes they seek to make real. The future is the future. They could only vote for that hoped future in the present.  Blacks still voted for him, women still voted for him, Hispanics still voted for him, college people still voted for him.  And they did so because they have their own personal and deep felt reasons for doing so.  

Democracy.  

I'm old enough and in a Nation that has seen me vote many, many, many times - in National and European elections, in many Referenda (many more than the UK people would be familiar with) - and of course, on many occasions, life being life, I was on the wrong side.  My guys lost, ideas I agreed with were shattered, my hopes were binned for four, five, six or ten years.  That's how it goes.  I sucked in air and away we go to live our lives until next voting day.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 10:17 pm

Actually my point is that you seemingly approve of a racist, sexual predator and have no sympathy for those who will suffer as a result of his being elected, and disapprove of their right to protest.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 10:26 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Actually my point is that you seemingly approve of a racist, sexual predator and have no sympathy for those who will suffer as a result of his being elected, and disapprove of their right to protest.

You keep thinking that if you feel you need to.  I won't change your mind.  There we go again, I actually throught we were falling on a common conclusion about why Trump was voted for and at least coming to an agreement that we appreciate we would have voted for different candidates for different reasons.  But it seems on that last post that I misinterpreted the arrival of a white dove of peace?

All I can do is repeat that women Did vote for him, Blacks Did vote for him, Hispanics Did vote for him, educated young people Did vote for him.  And they had their reasons.  Indeed, how often did you see the interviews with the 'common' families on BBC and other channels?  The husband for Trump, the wife for Clinton.  There'll be divorces all over America because the husband voted for the 'sexual predator racist'?

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 10:29 pm

Women, black people, Hispanics and educated people voted for Trump as a much smaller proportion than they voted for Hillary. That has been shown and is pretty bloody obvious. Saying that some women and minorities voted for him is irrelevant to the overall argument.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 10:31 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Women, black people, Hispanics and educated people voted for Trump as a much smaller proportion than they voted for Hillary. That has been shown and is pretty bloody obvious. Saying that some women and minorities voted for him is irrelevant to the overall argument.

The point is They voted for him.  They voted for him.  They're all in on the anti black, anti Mexican, anti gay, anti woman sexist agenda?  Are they?  Everyone who voted for Trump MUST be evil?

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 10:41 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:Actually my point is that you seemingly approve of a racist, sexual predator and have no sympathy for those who will suffer as a result of his being elected, and disapprove of their right to protest.

You keep thinking that if you feel you need to.  I won't change your mind.  There we go again, I actually throught we were falling on a common conclusion about why Trump was voted for and at least coming to an agreement that we appreciate we would have voted for different candidates for different reasons.  But it seems on that last post that I misinterpreted the arrival of a white dove of peace?

All I can do is repeat that women Did vote for him, Blacks Did vote for him, Hispanics Did vote for him, educated young people Did vote for him.  And they had their reasons.  Indeed, how often did you see the interviews with the 'common' families on BBC and other channels?  The husband for Trump, the wife for Clinton.  There'll be divorces all over America because the husband voted for the 'sexual predator racist'?

I don't need to feel that way - it's just the way you come across, and you seem happy to come across that way. It's no big deal, it's just a forum. We do have some common ground on some interpretations of the result though. I'm pretty sure Trump has worked that out as well, but I'm not suddenly going to think that because he got his strategy right in the campaign, that that makes him decent bloke.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:04 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:

I don't need to feel that way - it's just the way you come across, and you seem happy to come across that way. It's no big deal, it's just a forum. We do have some common ground on some interpretations of the result though. I'm pretty sure Trump has worked that out as well, but I'm not suddenly going to think that because he got his strategy right in the campaign, that that makes him decent bloke.

You should look at this site, and the contributors to it, from my side.  Like I said, none of us are in the same room.  We don't live in the same street, in the same country.  Your experiences in life won't mimic mine.  So Perspective is everything.

Read through all the stuff again over the months and pretend you're a guy who championed the election of Trump.  Hell, even Pr4 admits that he's probably done his stint of sneering and accusing people of this and that down the racist, sexist avenue.  Pretty similar styled debates took place during the Brexit period.
I'm no different to the people in here - except that I try to steer away from personal insults, unlike a good few of my pals here.  Wink

However, if someone suggests I should walk into this place as a humble penitent because Trump was the 'wrong' choice - I say no, no, no.  That won't be the story.  I'm not about to accept that swing on the 'narrative' of the post-election blues.  The people who lost the election or who were strong and arrogant in their summation of Trump and the 'natural law' reason why he Won't be President - those are the people who are now blue.  I'm not blue.  And I'm not going to whisper myself into any thread here, pretending I'm blue simply because my opinion is out-numbered.

I have no monopoly on the traits 'smug', 'arrogant' or 'sneer' on this site.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:

This is Secret in a nutshell, everyone. Uses nice long words to create the flimsiest of arguments. If someone doesn't like the result, they shouldn't just accept it. Particularly, as Julius said, when they feel that the winner is a bigot of monumental proportions.

It's also not complete rubbish to say that America has become uneasy. Immigrants do not know whether they will be forced from their homes soon. Young women do not know whether they will lose control over their bodies when it comes to having - or not having - a child soon. Gay and trans people also don't fully know what their rights will be soon. Muslims don't know whether they will have to sign up to a ridiculous Nazi-style register soon.

Of course much of America is uneasy after this election.

It's rubbish to say America has 'suddenly' become uneasy.  You go ahead and join the Revolution though.  I'm sure when you win, I'll be hunted down for Previous Thought Crime and Off With My Head  OK    

Where do you live? The USA or Canada?

And i'd say it's you that has joined the Revolution as an advocate for Trump. As for removing your head, its so far inserted i think it's pretty safe actually. Laugh

Fine if you have no self respect it makes sense, you bought into the biggest lie ever sold in Western politics and already you're bitter because deep down you know you've been had….he promises to make poor men richer yet the evidence suggests he screws everyone he can,usually be renegotiating contracts and lawsuits, and he is going to do it to America en masse. Only a few nights ago Trump snuck out to his favorite restaurant where he received a standing ovation apparently and remarked to the wealthy guests that he would ensure that their tax rates were cut.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:35 pm

OK

Good man, Gwlad. Glad to see you rising out of the depression. It's amazing what a few night's sleep can do.

Keep fighting the good fight.


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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:42 pm

SecretFly wrote:OK

Good man, Gwlad.  Glad to see you rising out of the depression.  It's amazing what a few night's sleep can do.

Keep fighting the good fight.


What does that even mean….you talk in riddles like your hero only with even less in the way of substance if that is possible.

Clearly you don't live in North America so you don't have a clue what it feels like here right now. I know experience doesn't mean much to Trumpeters but to suggest what is going on here now is anything like what has gone before with the likes of Bush et al indicates you don't have a clue. But then we already know that from your 'political' leanings.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:44 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Women, black people, Hispanics and educated people voted for Trump as a much smaller proportion than they voted for Hillary. That has been shown and is pretty bloody obvious. Saying that some women and minorities voted for him is irrelevant to the overall argument.

The point is They voted for him.  They voted for him.  They're all in on the anti black, anti Mexican, anti gay, anti woman sexist agenda?  Are they?  Everyone who voted for Trump MUST be evil?

No, just mighty stupid. Not sure what's worse but stupidity and power = dangerous.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:48 pm

Insightful.  Thanks for the updates, Gwlad.  Keep me informed on the latest developments.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:51 pm

As you clearly aren't either interested or qualified to discuss the issue of how it feels over here right now I'd suggest you run for President.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:58 pm

Might do. Good idea, Gwlad. I might need a few years to think about it though. I'll check out my finances and get back to you in time to discuss the next one in four years.

If you guys have a Revolution in the meantime, I might consider it earlier than that.

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Post by Gwlad on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 12:12 am

I think you've got potential, you make Trump sound quite intelligent!

And since you refer to BBC and other channels you are clearly the wrong side of the pond to comment on the issue of how it feels in the States and North America in general with any sense of authority.

Care to tell us how it feels in the USA from the UK?

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 12:22 am

It's a control thing Gwlad. When people feel they're in control they're the ones who take the most risks. So some racist prior to Brexit kept his mouth shut but now that he feels he's finally got control he''s more likely to abuse someone because he thinks there won't be consequences. It's the opposite for you because you realise that you and most decent sensible folk who aren't completely and utterly desperate realise that you're passengers in a car driven either by a desperate or stupid man. So even though you might not have liked Clinton you would at least have faith that the dull and uninspiring driver will get you where you want without unnecessary drama so there would be some semblance of control. That the desperate decent folk voted for Trump is probably not surprising in hindsight because poor people tend to vote to make themselves poorer by trusting the biggest liar because only he will promise them the world. Like Boris feckING Johnson.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 12:25 am

Thanks for the recommendation, Gwlad. Will look forward to seeing you on the campaign trail in 2020.

You can't get the BBC where you are? What kind of outback place you live in? Waskesiu Lake? Did you try a coat hanger?


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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 8:57 am

SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore milk is ice-cream.

Whistle

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream.  Therefore you use milk to make ice-cream.  Keep going.
Not if you want good ice cream, you don't. You use cream Wink .
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 10:59 am

navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:You don't know the difference between protest & Revolution? Now that's entertainment!

Revolutions have a close affinity with Protest - you did not know this?  Play with words though because I love them.

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream. Therefore milk is ice-cream.

Whistle

Milk has a close affinity to ice-cream.  Therefore you use milk to make ice-cream.  Keep going.
Not if you want good ice cream, you don't. You use cream Wink .

I'm milk intolerant - you're talking to the wrong man Wink

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Post by carpet baboon on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:11 pm

Jeff sessions to be appointed head of the DOJ.
Can I point out he was considered to openly racist to become a federal judge.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:24 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Jeff sessions to be appointed head of the DOJ.
Can I point out he was considered to openly racist to become a federal judge.

Saying the KKK are alright and civil rights are Un-American does not make someone a racist, ignorant, unthinking, racist and loose tongued but not racist

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Post by carpet baboon on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Jeff sessions to be appointed head of the DOJ.
Can I point out he was considered to openly racist to become a federal judge.

Saying the KKK are alright and civil rights are Un-American does not make someone a racist, ignorant, unthinking, racist and loose tongued but not racist

True.

Anyone else find it odd that Jimmy carter was investigated for 6 months to make sure that he wasn't making money from his peanut farm, yet the sh*t gibbon who is still running all his businesses it would seem, is not even politely asked what's the deal with that?

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:41 pm

The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:43 pm

carpet baboon wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:Jeff sessions to be appointed head of the DOJ.
Can I point out he was considered to openly racist to become a federal judge.

Saying the KKK are alright and civil rights are Un-American does not make someone a racist, ignorant, unthinking, racist and loose tongued but not racist

True.

Anyone else find it odd that Jimmy carter was investigated for 6 months to make sure that he wasn't making money from his peanut farm, yet the sh*t gibbon who is still running all his businesses it would seem, is not even politely asked what's the deal with that?

And Hillary was accused of making decisions that benefitted her family and friends

I thought he had to put his shares etc into escrow but apparently not, theres no law that says a President or VP have to do such a thing though their cabinet members have to recuse themselves when conflicts of interest arise

Seems Donald could be everything some of us accused him of being, funny that

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:48 pm

God, you Boys been up and at that computer machine right quickly to get your googlin' done on all that research stuff pretty damn fast.

Hat's off to all of you Wink

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:48 pm

Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:49 pm

Google is our friend Cool


Last edited by Munchkin on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Types 'are' instead of 'our'! Really, REALLY, stupid.)

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:50 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

Yes, I think it can do. Thinking changes over time if you allow it.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:God, you Boys been up and at that computer machine right quickly to get your googlin' done on all that research stuff pretty damn fast.

Hat's off to all of you Wink


Plenty of reading material out there already

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/17/us/politics/specter-of-race-shadows-jeff-sessions-potential-trump-nominee-for-cabinet.html?_r=0

I should stop reading it all its the stuff of nightmares

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:54 pm

Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

Yes, I think it can do. Thinking changes over time if you allow it.

His racism came to light in a Senate hearing that stopped his confirmation to the bench, maybe he learned to bite his tongue so as not to hurt his career?

Its not something that can or should be ignored because time has passed

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:00 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

Yes, I think it can do. Thinking changes over time if you allow it.

His racism came to light in a Senate hearing that stopped his confirmation to the bench, maybe he learned to bite his tongue so as not to hurt his career?

Its not something that can or should be ignored because time has passed

Maybe he did learn to bite his tongue, or maybe what he said was in jest? Maybe he was racist but has since reformed - like Byrd? Truth is we don't know. It was 35 years ago. I would think if he is truly racist then more would have come out by now. Sessions was also honest in admitting to the things he said. Hilary would just have lied. Just like her husband.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:06 pm

Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

Yes, I think it can do. Thinking changes over time if you allow it.

His racism came to light in a Senate hearing that stopped his confirmation to the bench, maybe he learned to bite his tongue so as not to hurt his career?

Its not something that can or should be ignored because time has passed

Maybe he did learn to bite his tongue, or maybe what he said was in jest? Maybe he was racist but has since reformed - like Byrd? Truth is we don't know. It was 35 years ago. I would think if he is truly racist them more would have come out by now. Sessions was also honest in admitting to the things he said. Hilary would just have lied.


Once is in jest, there are numerous examples of racism in his approach to cases and his spoken opinions of groups etc

And he wasn't honest about it he was vague and unapologetic about anything he said

Byrd was open about his past, apologetic and spent a lifetime working to undo what he did before

Pretty sure Hillary wouldn't have had to lie about being a racist but Im sure Trump and his team thought of calling her one they did everything else

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:11 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

Yes, I think it can do. Thinking changes over time if you allow it.

His racism came to light in a Senate hearing that stopped his confirmation to the bench, maybe he learned to bite his tongue so as not to hurt his career?

Its not something that can or should be ignored because time has passed

Maybe he did learn to bite his tongue, or maybe what he said was in jest? Maybe he was racist but has since reformed - like Byrd? Truth is we don't know. It was 35 years ago. I would think if he is truly racist them more would have come out by now. Sessions was also honest in admitting to the things he said. Hilary would just have lied.


Once is in jest, there are numerous examples of racism in his approach to cases and his spoken opinions of groups etc

And he wasn't honest about it he was vague and unapologetic about anything he said

Byrd was open about his past, apologetic and spent a lifetime working to undo what he did before

Pretty sure Hillary wouldn't have had to lie about being a racist but Im sure Trump and his team thought of calling her one they did everything else

The article I read pointed out just a couple of incidents. If you have anything more recent than 35 years ago, then please provide a link.

He was honest about it. He admitted he said the things, but said one was in jest and he couldn't remember his exact wording for the other, but it was probably as described.

Hilary lies. That's my point. Maybe lying is ok though? Sure it's politics.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:17 pm

Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

Yes, I think it can do. Thinking changes over time if you allow it.

His racism came to light in a Senate hearing that stopped his confirmation to the bench, maybe he learned to bite his tongue so as not to hurt his career?

Its not something that can or should be ignored because time has passed

Maybe he did learn to bite his tongue, or maybe what he said was in jest? Maybe he was racist but has since reformed - like Byrd? Truth is we don't know. It was 35 years ago. I would think if he is truly racist them more would have come out by now. Sessions was also honest in admitting to the things he said. Hilary would just have lied.


Once is in jest, there are numerous examples of racism in his approach to cases and his spoken opinions of groups etc

And he wasn't honest about it he was vague and unapologetic about anything he said

Byrd was open about his past, apologetic and spent a lifetime working to undo what he did before

Pretty sure Hillary wouldn't have had to lie about being a racist but Im sure Trump and his team thought of calling her one they did everything else

The article I read pointed out just a couple of incidents. If you have anything more recent than 35 years ago, then please provide a link.

He was honest about it. He admitted he said the things, but said one was in jest and he couldn't remember his exact wording for the other, but it was probably as described.

Hilary lies. That's my point. Maybe lying is ok though? Sure it's politics.

There were 3 or 4 incidents involving one member of his staff

Everyone lies but calling her a liar is silly and pure politics


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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:20 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:The alleged racist comments by Sessions were 35 years ago. It's old history that should be left buried. If he has said anything more recently then fair enough.

I'm more concerned that Trump employed Bannon.

So racism passes with time?

Yes, I think it can do. Thinking changes over time if you allow it.

His racism came to light in a Senate hearing that stopped his confirmation to the bench, maybe he learned to bite his tongue so as not to hurt his career?

Its not something that can or should be ignored because time has passed

Maybe he did learn to bite his tongue, or maybe what he said was in jest? Maybe he was racist but has since reformed - like Byrd? Truth is we don't know. It was 35 years ago. I would think if he is truly racist them more would have come out by now. Sessions was also honest in admitting to the things he said. Hilary would just have lied.


Once is in jest, there are numerous examples of racism in his approach to cases and his spoken opinions of groups etc

And he wasn't honest about it he was vague and unapologetic about anything he said

Byrd was open about his past, apologetic and spent a lifetime working to undo what he did before

Pretty sure Hillary wouldn't have had to lie about being a racist but Im sure Trump and his team thought of calling her one they did everything else

The article I read pointed out just a couple of incidents. If you have anything more recent than 35 years ago, then please provide a link.

He was honest about it. He admitted he said the things, but said one was in jest and he couldn't remember his exact wording for the other, but it was probably as described.

Hilary lies. That's my point. Maybe lying is ok though? Sure it's politics.

There were 3 or 4 incidents involving one member of his staff

Everyone lies but calling her a liar is silly and pure politics


She is a liar. If you think a lying POTUS is fine, then I reckon you lose the moral highground. I believe Trump is a liar as well, but you don't mind that. Trump lying wouldn't bother you.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:20 pm

Here's my bit of research.  The guy's name who made the accusations that stopped Sessions was Thomas Figures, the brother of a black politics Senator from Alabama.  So already no love lost, huh?

He said that Sessions said stuff of a racist nature and Sessions was of the opinion that it was all just office joshin'.

Whether is was or wasn't, that same Thomas Figures got himself in his own trouble some years later when he was defending a Nobel Beasley who was charged with distributing 11 pounds of crack.  Figures was indicted for bribery having supposedly offered a witness $50,000 not to testify.

I can't get any details on whether or not he was convicted.  Maybe someone can.  Beasley was.  
But I think it'd be a true statement to admit that there is still a bristling tension down Alabama way between whites and blacks... (kinda like a place not too far from some of us) with both wanting to besmirch the other.  

Question, can a black person be racist?  And if so, do we include them in the conversation about America and racism?  I mean were their number factored into the 'racist' voting figures constantly popping up in all and every discussion?  It's interesting because it's certain, going on the numbers, that 'racists' who voted for Trump are some of the same 'racists' who voted for Obama.  

Racists are a funny old bunch.  They travel around the world and through Nations and they're still waiting for a serious definition that might include all of them and not just the white version.


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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:23 pm

They all lie. I think sanity has taken a walk in recent weeks post-Election.

They all lie. It's the job. "I love kissing your baby" - it's a lie. But if what I've been reading and looking up lately proves true... the world of interconnected politics/business really has become a cesspit.... and that earlier comment about kissing babies becomes something altogether more sinister.

But more on that later - if any of it becomes more solid.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:28 pm

Munchkin wrote:
She is a liar. If you think a lying POTUS is fine, then I reckon you lose the moral highground. I believe Trump is a liar as well, but you don't mind that. Trump lying wouldn't bother you.

Like I said everyone lies but if you read beyond the headlines you would see she isn't the liar some claim she is


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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:They all lie.  I think sanity has taken a walk in recent weeks post-Election.

They all lie.  It's the job.  "I love kissing your baby" - it's a lie.  But if what I've been reading and looking up lately proves true... the world of interconnected politics/business really has become a cesspit.... and that earlier comment about kissing babies becomes something altogether more sinister.

But more on that later - if any of it becomes more solid.

I can't say they all lie, but can believe many of them do. Lying about national security issues, and lying about kissing babies are very different, methinks.

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Post by marty2086 on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Question, can a black person be racist?  And if so, do we include them in the conversation about America and racism?  I mean were their number factored into the 'racist' voting figures constantly popping up in all and every discussion?  It's interesting because it's certain, going on the numbers, that 'racists' who voted for Trump are some of the same 'racists' who voted for Obama.  

Racists are a funny old bunch.  They travel around the world and through Nations and they're still waiting for a serious definition that might include all of them and not just the white version.

Morally yes, legally it takes a lot for it to fall into that category

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:Here's my bit of research.  The guy's name who made the accusations that stopped Sessions was Thomas Figures, the brother of a black politics Senator from Alabama.  So already no love lost, huh?

He said that Sessions said stuff of a racist nature and Sessions was of the opinion that it was all just office joshin'.

Or "Locker room banter"

You do yourself a disservice sometimes, Fly.

It's not even this appointment that worries me the most. Bannon and Pence are frankly pretty frightening.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
She is a liar. If you think a lying POTUS is fine, then I reckon you lose the moral highground. I believe Trump is a liar as well, but you don't mind that. Trump lying wouldn't bother you.

Like I said everyone lies but if you read beyond the headlines you would see she isn't the liar some claim she is


Depending which headlines and from which sources. The headline makers and sources do their own version of lying. That's actually another quirk of the American political system I'm researching right now.

So yeah, who the hell tells us the truth that we can reference - because from my observations, that noble reference point of truth is disintegrating by the day.

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:32 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
She is a liar. If you think a lying POTUS is fine, then I reckon you lose the moral highground. I believe Trump is a liar as well, but you don't mind that. Trump lying wouldn't bother you.

Like I said everyone lies but if you read beyond the headlines you would see she isn't the liar some claim she is


She is. She lied about a national security issue, then compounded the lie by destroying her emails. That's lying. I'm not saying she should have been sent to prison for it. I don't see using the other email server as such a crime as some are painting. Lying about was the real issue.

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:33 pm

.


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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:33 pm

Pr4wn wrote:

Or "Locker room banter"

You do yourself a disservice sometimes, Fly.

It's not even this appointment that worries me the most. Bannon and Pence are frankly pretty frightening.

Yeah...maybe Locker Room Banter.... good point.

Now try answering the 'racist' question. I'm interested to hear your view

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 2:34 pm

marty2086 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Question, can a black person be racist?  And if so, do we include them in the conversation about America and racism?  I mean were their number factored into the 'racist' voting figures constantly popping up in all and every discussion?  It's interesting because it's certain, going on the numbers, that 'racists' who voted for Trump are some of the same 'racists' who voted for Obama.  

Racists are a funny old bunch.  They travel around the world and through Nations and they're still waiting for a serious definition that might include all of them and not just the white version.

Morally yes, legally it takes a lot for it to fall into that category

We got to get the Legals in on it then.

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