Wales v Argentina

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Post by chris_501 on Thu 10 Nov 2016, 11:09 am

First topic message reminder :

1.Jenkins (c)
2.Owens
3.Francis
4.Charteris
5.AW Jones
6. Warburton
7. Tipuric
8.Moriarty

9.G.Davies
10.Biggar
11.Li Williams
12.S.Williams
13.J.Davies
14.North
15.Halfpenny

16.Baldwin
17.Smith
18.Lee
19.Hill
20.King
21.Ll Williams
22.Anscombe
23.Roberts

My only bug bear is Halfpenny at 15 instead of Liam Williams and why is Gethin captain?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 7:24 pm

MOTM is the class AWJ, but on this occasion I think Liam Williams was more deserving.

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Post by stub on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 7:27 pm

Congratulations to Wales - I think Argentina take some beating.

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Post by Shifty on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 7:40 pm

Well we won that's about it. Wasted loads of chances etc. I'm looking forward to the Japan game I always enjoy watching them play. Hopefully we will pick our strongest team and give them some pay back for beating us last time.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 8:27 pm

What was the final score? had to go out when Argentina made it 16_ 17 to Wales.?

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Post by Shifty on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:09 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:What was the final score? had to go out when Argentina made it 16_ 17 to Wales.?
24-20
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 12 Nov 2016, 9:25 pm

close then in the end.

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Post by Guest on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:32 am

Didn't enjoy watching that at all. Wales manage to make the beautiful game look like 15 v 15 wrestling. A tense game is fine, if it's close due to evenly matched teams playing lovely rugby, scoring well worked tries, etc. But tense and boring is becoming a Wales trademark. Yesterday was tense because of how difficult we found it just getting over the gain line and over the try line. And we made it difficult for ourselves with so much static play and lack of invention. It was just an ugly arm wrestle. And I think fans have had enough. I mean, look at this thread for example. Match threads typically have a few hundred posts. This one has only 50 odd. We don't even want to discuss it (the game)!

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Post by Allty on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 9:41 am

The word uninspiring is appropriate

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 10:08 am

Just wandered who got Man of the Match?

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Post by offload on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 10:25 am

I watched England, Scotland and Wales yesterday and what a contrast. Not an ounce of flair or creativity from Wales. No pace in attack, no dummy runners, lateral and boring. At least this week they looked like they wanted to win - that's about it. I don't think Howley could motivate me to take a leak after 10 pints. That he could be the next head coach is shocking.
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Post by offload on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 10:27 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Just wandered who got Man of the Match?

AWJ, well deserved.
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Post by munkian on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 11:36 am

A lot more heart but little else - only creativity was from GD and Sanjay.

North had a better game but mostly in defense.

Moriarty very good again, AWJ put in a hell of a shift and the man is burying his Father on Monday.
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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 1:07 pm

Yep, underwhelming. Very hard to discuss, because no sign of any innovation and we've said it all before.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 1:49 pm

offload wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Just wandered who got Man of the Match?

AWJ, well deserved.


Really? Before i had to go0 out, i thought Warburton would of been the one too get Man of the Match.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 2:02 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:
offload wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Just wandered who got Man of the Match?

AWJ, well deserved.


Really? Before i had to go0 out, i thought Warburton would of been the one too get Man of the Match.

He would have been. But then he saw you leave and lost confidence in himself.

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Post by exile jack on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 2:23 pm

Went to Twickers yesterday and only saw the Welsh game this morning. What a stark and painful contrast to the English game.The English boys look like a team,play like a team and are a team coached professionally.Pretty remarkable that second string NZ and Irish teams put 18 tries on Italy and Canada yesterday.Wales are so slow and predictable and regressing at an increasing rate.Where would Wales be without Gethin,Liam and AWJ? Btw is it just me or was Warburton playing in the 2nd half?

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Post by irnbrew on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 6:05 pm

Well you welsh supporters on here got the changes you asked for what happened is that it

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:01 pm

offload wrote:I watched England, Scotland and Wales yesterday and what a contrast.   Not an ounce of flair or creativity from Wales. No pace in attack, no dummy runners, lateral and boring.  At least this week they looked like they wanted to win - that's about it.  I don't think Howley could motivate me to take a leak after 10 pints. That he could be the next head coach is shocking.

Clearly, too many Jennifer Anistons in the team.
Anyway, the "flair" word was mentioned 3 times in the build up by Mikey, Nugget and Gobby Yorath. Had to turn off the tv with my hammer.

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:14 pm

Griff wrote:Didn't enjoy watching that at all. Wales manage to make the beautiful game look like 15 v 15 wrestling. A tense game is fine, if it's close due to evenly matched teams playing lovely rugby, scoring well worked tries, etc. But tense and boring is becoming a Wales trademark. Yesterday was tense because of how difficult we found it just getting over the gain line and over the try line. And we made it difficult for ourselves with so much static play and lack of invention. It was just an ugly arm wrestle. And I think fans have had enough. I mean, look at this thread for example. Match threads typically have a few hundred posts. This one has only 50 odd. We don't even want to discuss it (the game)!

As we see loads of stats for this and stats for that, are there any that include the speed of a player receiving a pass? Just wondering like coz Wales seem slower compared to the better teams.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:17 pm

I was just going to come in and ask was it a good game and are Welsh fans happier with the performance (didn't get to see the game).  But instantly from the comments just above that it still wasn't according to plan?

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:22 pm

Shifty wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Not yet brother, just wait for the game and see how it unfolds.

If I were a Welsh fan, I would be very torn. In a way I would want Wales to win but equally I would want Wales to struggle. I say this as I feel your coaching needs a large overhaul.

It's not the coaches it's Welsh rugby players attitude in general, they either care or they don't.  Sadly nearly all of them are too confident of getting picked regardless of how rubbish they play.  

Toilets and eunuchs isn't it? Something like that.

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:28 pm

eirebilly wrote:Just hoping for a Welsh win today. I have so much respect for the Welsh and their fans, always been welcomed warmly by them. Quality set of fans thumbsup

Was wishing for an Autumn whitewash actually. Gutted now.

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:36 pm

rumpelstiltskindoh wrote:hard to believe this back line averages nearly 40 caps each. They look like they are still learning how to play together....that's more like it

So used to starting with Jamie Roberts at bish-bash 12, everybody's lost without him.

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Post by Guest on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 8:55 pm

SecretFly wrote:I was just going to come in and ask was it a good game and are Welsh fans happier with the performance (didn't get to see the game).  But instantly from the comments just above that it still wasn't according to plan?

It was one of those games (that are all too common for Wales unfortunately) where nothing seemed to click. We got into the Argie 22 plenty in the first half but either knocked on, got turned over, gave away a penalty, etc. It just wasn't fluid. The backline looked disjointed and once again players received the ball stood still. Which meant we had little pace on the game and we were playing behind the gain line a lot, often going backwards, and relying on the good old 'bosh'. Yep, we've been here before. However, these days we've got less 'bosh' and it's just less effective than it used to be (if it ever was that effective).

You look at other teams like Aus, NZ, Ireland, England: they get the man running and catching the ball at pace and that just makes defending so much more difficult. We need some more jinkers. Liam Williams was arguably our best player and he was just that - jinxing, elusive, hard to put down and as a result got a try and nearly had 2 more. The bosh merchants like Moriaty never looked like scoring (although he was the best of the boshers). I do like Dan Biggar tremendously but I am starting to buy into the talk of trying an alternative who plays a bit flatter, which should lead to the back line coming onto the ball at more pace. I'm just not sure who we have to do that at this level. Anscombe maybe? Autumn is the time to trial these sort of options, for me.

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Post by Guest on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 9:06 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Just hoping for a Welsh win today. I have so much respect for the Welsh and their fans, always been welcomed warmly by them. Quality set of fans thumbsup

Was wishing for an Autumn whitewash actually. Gutted now.

Dave, each to their own and all that but if I'm understanding you correctly you wanted your own country to lose? And lose all 4 games?! I just don't get the mentality! Is it in the hope that losses will lead to a shake up of the coaching positions? Or are you one of those that is club rugby only and to hell with representative teams? Genuinely interested!

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Post by Guest on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 9:08 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:Didn't enjoy watching that at all. Wales manage to make the beautiful game look like 15 v 15 wrestling. A tense game is fine, if it's close due to evenly matched teams playing lovely rugby, scoring well worked tries, etc. But tense and boring is becoming a Wales trademark. Yesterday was tense because of how difficult we found it just getting over the gain line and over the try line. And we made it difficult for ourselves with so much static play and lack of invention. It was just an ugly arm wrestle. And I think fans have had enough. I mean, look at this thread for example. Match threads typically have a few hundred posts. This one has only 50 odd. We don't even want to discuss it (the game)!

As we see loads of stats for this and stats for that, are there any that include the speed of a player receiving a pass? Just wondering like coz Wales seem slower compared to the better teams.

I've seen the Wales stats guy, whatsisname with the apple laptop and double chin, brandishing a speed gun at a few games. Too embarrassed to publish the scores though I feel Smile

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 9:21 pm

Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Just hoping for a Welsh win today. I have so much respect for the Welsh and their fans, always been welcomed warmly by them. Quality set of fans thumbsup

Was wishing for an Autumn whitewash actually. Gutted now.

Dave, each to their own and all that but if I'm understanding you correctly you wanted your own country to lose? And lose all 4 games?! I just don't get the mentality! Is it in the hope that losses will lead to a shake up of the coaching positions? Or are you one of those that is club rugby only and to hell with representative teams? Genuinely interested!

I getchya.
I want a shake up of everything coz there's been too much bollux and bull for far too long, right across the board. If it takes a series team Wales humiliation to achieve this then so be it.
Need a Welsh Rugby Incredulity thread, I reckon.
Also need a Cardiff Rugby incredulity thread come to think of it.

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Post by Guest on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 9:24 pm

I agree in many ways. Would like a shake up too. Just glad you're not one of those that goes out of his way to hate 'Team Wales' just cos it's not club rugby! thumbsup

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 9:55 pm

The problem, as I see it, is that if things imploded now for the Welsh National side - as in a sequence of losses from here right through the 6N.  What actually would happen?  Gatland couldn't be blamed for any of it so he'd be expected to arrive back once again as returning safe-hands to take the job away from that lad that ruined things again in his absence.

Now, I know some of you wouldn't be inclined to blame Gatland anyway, and see the problems elsewhere.  But quite a few of you DO see Gatland as an issue at this point but, for you, he's been pulled away again from the National side and so, in a sense, he'll be protected from any total collapse that might happen over the next few months.

I don't think that's going to happen but would the WRU put Gatland in the mix too if they were forced to consider some drastic changes in the months ahead?

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Post by Guest on Sun 13 Nov 2016, 10:24 pm

I don't think the WRU would have the balls to sack Gatland. Perhaps they might not offer him another contract, which I doubt he'd accept anyway as I'm sure he's keen to head home, but I just can't see them pulling the plug early. And he'd be expensive to pay off too: contract to end of World Cup 2019, so about 3 years salary. I think I recall he's on £250k a year. Maybe more. I think they'll just let him see it out.

The worry for me and many others is the promotion from within that we seem to be fostering. That's fine if you've got a winning formula and rock solid systems. NZ do it, and coaches like Wayne Smith and Hansen have played the assistant role and have stepped up and carried on the good work as they're best placed and most experienced in those methods as they've been immersed in it and can just pick up the ball and run with it (pun intended!). But it's a double edged sword: should your systems be failing and stagnating, and the results not gone your way, then promoting from within just continues the rot. We'll be stuck in the same rut, perpetuating the same Warrenball stylee.

But I do get the conundrum for the WRU. Everyone would love to see a Welsh coach. I think that's just natural. And a number of years ago people would probably say the best way, in the absence of anyone good enough currently, would be to get someone in as an assistant to an experienced overseas coach and let them learn and take over eventually. Aka what we've got now. And they've invested a fair amount of time and money in the project. But we've yet to see that Howley adds anything new to the mix. It's just too samey. As you'd expect. They've been together since Howley was captain and Gats the coach at Wasps many moons ago. They're symbiotic.

So the question is about balls. Does the WRU have the balls to try something new, pay off Gats (we know how money conscious they are), go against the time and money investment in Howley, and plump for an outsider(s) who would be completely new to the systems and structures, players, staff, etc. That's what we need, but it's the hard way. And I'm not sure the WRU will go the hard way, unfortunately.

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 5:31 am

Griff wrote:I don't think the WRU would have the balls to sack Gatland. Perhaps they might not offer him another contract, which I doubt he'd accept anyway as I'm sure he's keen to head home, but I just can't see them pulling the plug early. And he'd be expensive to pay off too: contract to end of World Cup 2019, so about 3 years salary. I think I recall he's on £250k a year. Maybe more. I think they'll just let him see it out.

The worry for me and many others is the promotion from within that we seem to be fostering. That's fine if you've got a winning formula and rock solid systems. NZ do it, and coaches like Wayne Smith and Hansen have played the assistant role and have stepped up and carried on the good work as they're best placed and most experienced in those methods as they've been immersed in it and can just pick up the ball and run with it (pun intended!). But it's a double edged sword: should your systems be failing and stagnating, and the results not gone your way, then promoting from within just continues the rot. We'll be stuck in the same rut, perpetuating the same Warrenball stylee.

But I do get the conundrum for the WRU. Everyone would love to see a Welsh coach. I think that's just natural. And a number of years ago people would probably say the best way, in the absence of anyone good enough currently, would be to get someone in as an assistant to an experienced overseas coach and let them learn and take over eventually. Aka what we've got now. And they've invested a fair amount of time and money in the project. But we've yet to see that Howley adds anything new to the mix. It's just too samey. As you'd expect. They've been together since Howley was captain and Gats the coach at Wasps many moons ago. They're symbiotic.

So the question is about balls. Does the WRU have the balls to try something new, pay off Gats (we know how money conscious they are), go against the time and money investment in Howley, and plump for an outsider(s) who would be completely new to the systems and structures, players, staff, etc. That's what we need, but it's the hard way. And I'm not sure the WRU will go the hard way, unfortunately.

Easy answer no I don't think they do.

I have said for a long while now that Howley is heir apparent after Gatland goes, I think it would have took an Autumn whitewash (now won't happen and a wooden spoon (very possible) for them to even think of getting rid Howley.
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Post by bedfordwelsh on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 5:33 am

Cardiff Dave wrote:
Griff wrote:
Cardiff Dave wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Just hoping for a Welsh win today. I have so much respect for the Welsh and their fans, always been welcomed warmly by them. Quality set of fans thumbsup

Was wishing for an Autumn whitewash actually. Gutted now.

Dave, each to their own and all that but if I'm understanding you correctly you wanted your own country to lose? And lose all 4 games?! I just don't get the mentality! Is it in the hope that losses will lead to a shake up of the coaching positions? Or are you one of those that is club rugby only and to hell with representative teams? Genuinely interested!

I getchya.
I want a shake up of everything coz there's been too much bollux and bull for far too long, right across the board. If it takes a series team Wales humiliation to achieve this then so be it.
Need a Welsh Rugby Incredulity thread, I reckon.
Also need a Cardiff Rugby incredulity thread come to think of it.

I wouldn't have wished for a whitewash or a wooden spoon in the 6 Nations but I do think it might well be whats needed for something to be done and for the whole system - Union down to change.
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Post by exile jack on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:58 am

The only way that the WRU is going to address the current disastrous coaching set up around the Welsh team is if supporters vote with their feet.That appears to be happening as the gap between Wales and the leading Tier 1 Nations widens.I doubt anyone in the WRU asks themselves what other Tier1 Nations would regard Gatland,Howley and his team as even remotely preferable to their own or,more starkly,how many international rugby coaches would on fair analysis be rated above the Welsh regime(quite a lot).The fact that the Welsh coaches are meant to be working more closely with the PRW coaches is deeply worrying.If the WRU does indeed have a policy of home grown coaching talent it isn't working because Gatland has not surrounded himself with coaching excellence more like jobs for mates and mates of mates.Gatland himself reminds me of Harry Redknapp-never mind the results where's my money.Even during those dark days when Dallaglio's England were humiliating us I never thought of selling my Debenture but the current garbage being produced by the Welsh coaches is changing that.To give one example from Saturday's game-after 1m25secs the Welsh 10 attempted an attacking Garryowen from about halfway on the paddock,the kick went about 10m and a minute later Argentina took the lead.A second example in the 2nd half was when the Welsh 9 had a 4 on 3 overlap on the left and decided to kick the ball away.The Welsh coaching team has produced and is refining an international team that is witless,brainless,skill less,slow and predictable.Will I pay to watch it.No way.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 9:06 am

The win could be important though for Wales when it comes to world cup seeding.

Of course it's ideal to get in the top 4 but top 8 surely has to be the minimum.

Argentina will be under pressure now to get some results or they'll potentially be pushed down to 9th.

Especially with Scotland up next then England.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 10:44 am

What do Wales do against Japan? - fielding a weakened team might not work out for them seeing as Japan just beat Georgia.
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Post by Guest on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:32 am

TightHEAD wrote:What do Wales do against Japan? - fielding a weakened team might not work out for them seeing as Japan just beat Georgia.


Yeah, we know.  Once bitten and all that...

I think the team for Japan will see some changes, but not to the extent of previous seasons where we've gone for a complete scratch team and then wonder why we struggle v Fiji, Samoa, et al.  For me you still need some good experience in the team if you're throwing in some youngsters.  Blooding them in a team surrounded by fellow novices is just daft, in my opinion.  

So I'd like to see the midfield stay the same as they're a relatively new partnership at this level (JD2 and Scott W).  I'd keep Liam Williams and 1/2p as they're coming back from injury, but I'd prefer Liam at FB and 1/2p on the wing.  I'd blood Keelan Giles as we're looking a bit ropey on the wing with Cuthbert seemingly the only back up we've got.  Perhaps let Gethin have a breather and give someone else a loosehead start.  Maybe Nicky Smith, but with the relatively experienced Baldwin and Lee to join him.  Keep Warbs as he's coming back from injury too, but perhaps experiment in the other backrow positions.  Not sure about 2nd row as I've lost track on who's available, etc.  I'd probably keep Gareth Davies as he's been behind Rhys Webb but now has a chance with Rhys' injury.  Maybe the Cardiff boy on the bench to come on and show what he can do.  And I'd rest Biggar and try someone else.  I'd like to see Anscombe again.  Maybe with  Sam Davies on the bench.  So, with that lot we should have a blend of youth and experience and a core of players used to playing with each other for Wales rather than it being a complete scratch side.  I'm hoping a change at fly half will put us on the front foot a bit more, just to see if there's anything in the 'Biggar stands too deep' argument.

Of course a lot of this depends on what sort of deal we made to get players released for the Aus game.  Do we know yet?

I've probably got some positions the wrong way round, but what the hell:

L Williams
L Halfpenny
J Davies
S Williams
K Giles
G Anscombe
G Davies
Backrow -3 of Baker? Moriaty? Warbs? King?  Tips?
2nd row?
2nd row?
Lee
Baldwin
Smith

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:34 am

offload wrote:I watched England, Scotland and Wales yesterday and what a contrast.   Not an ounce of flair or creativity from Wales. No pace in attack, no dummy runners, lateral and boring.  At least this week they looked like they wanted to win - that's about it.  I don't think Howley could motivate me to take a leak after 10 pints. That he could be the next head coach is shocking.

Spot on. The game's moved on without us.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:37 am

Griff wrote:Didn't enjoy watching that at all. Wales manage to make the beautiful game look like 15 v 15 wrestling. A tense game is fine, if it's close due to evenly matched teams playing lovely rugby, scoring well worked tries, etc. But tense and boring is becoming a Wales trademark. Yesterday was tense because of how difficult we found it just getting over the gain line and over the try line. And we made it difficult for ourselves with so much static play and lack of invention. It was just an ugly arm wrestle. And I think fans have had enough. I mean, look at this thread for example. Match threads typically have a few hundred posts. This one has only 50 odd. We don't even want to discuss it (the game)!

If the WRU want to lose fans to football, they're going the right way about it.

Did you see those fans with daffodil hats on and pints in their hands during the anthems? That's what Wales games have become.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:05 pm

I blame all the press and fans who went along with that 'a win is a win' and 'at least we have learnt how to win ugly' tripe when we started to go lose all our flair around 2009-2010.
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Post by wrfc1980 on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:24 pm

It many ways the win was more important than the performance. The Argies aren't push overs. It will be interesting to see if that helps Wales start to expand their game in the next two matches. Did anyone else think Biggar was mouthing off more than normal? Next time he needs tog et carded, we don't need that in rugby.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:26 pm

That would have been fine as a foundation, but it's years since then and they haven't built on it at all. Awarding them all new contracts was the WRU saying they didn't care about that. Steady as she goes on the good ship Mediocre.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:28 pm

wrfc1980 wrote:It many ways the win was more important than the performance. The Argies aren't push overs. It will be interesting to see if that helps Wales start to expand their game in the next two matches. Did anyone else think Biggar was mouthing off more than normal? Next time he needs tog et carded, we don't need that in rugby.

The referee should have had a word with Alun Wyn about Biggar.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:42 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
wrfc1980 wrote:It many ways the win was more important than the performance. The Argies aren't push overs. It will be interesting to see if that helps Wales start to expand their game in the next two matches. Did anyone else think Biggar was mouthing off more than normal? Next time he needs tog et carded, we don't need that in rugby.

The referee should have had a word with Alun Wyn about Biggar.

I was wondering if he was trying to add a new dance move to his list, move over Biggarana, here is the Biggar-whinger. But realistically, it was just getting farcical, at the end he was just moaning because he wasn't fast enough.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:44 pm

I don't know what the hell he was doing in the build-up to Hernandez's try.

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Post by TightHEAD on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 1:29 pm

Biggar looks a frustrated figure on the field. But that's no excuse for waving this arms around at every decision that goes against him. The Refs need to set him straight and take action.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 1:38 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't know what the hell he was doing in the build-up to Hernandez's try.

I think it was either:
a) Hernandez out paced him, which is not fair as he is an O.A.P. so should run slower
b) Hernandez didn't go to ground when he was being held back by Biggar, which is unfair as Dan was trying his best to stop him
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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 1:43 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Biggar looks a frustrated figure on the field. But that's no excuse for waving this arms around at every decision that goes against him. The Refs need to set him straight and take action.

He does look very frustrated, and it seems to have come since he has had the goal kicking taken off him. Personally I think we either need to give him the kicking tee back, or bench him up.
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Post by miaow on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 2:00 pm

Yeah, open play was dreadful as has been alluded to. That's going to take probably a few seasons to undo properly, maybe a new coaching set up to get rid of the kind of "process driven" structued game the camp has admitted they play. Did think it helped taking some pressure off Gareth Davies, he wasn't asked to do the Rhys Webb job of controlling and dictating from the base of the ruck (often looks like he's hesitating when the ball is there to be played, because the set up outside him isn't ready), as Davies is nowhere near as good as Webb in this regard. More rugby from 10, which was a start.

The set piece was really good. Enjoyed that immensely. The final scrum of the first half was an obvious embarrassment, but that aside, haven't enjoyed as dominant a scrum and lineout since the days of Adam Jones.

Frankly, I'll enjoy the win, it was never going to be anything else, and I'm quite glad we managed to stifle Argentina who have shown they can mix it with the best in the world when they turn up to play.

It will be a long time until Wales are regularly competing with England and Ireland again (not 6Ns, but more in terms of the one off matches that preceded the Summer Tour, etc), where the basic expectation is significantly higher than it is at the moment. One way, evidently, is changing the playing squad significantly, and that's started by getting rid of Robert. The other is the coaches. If it means waiting until 2019, so be it, but the WRU have to get it right, and get someone whose priorities are Wales first and foremost, which is not the case for Gatland: his eyes have been on the All Blacks job since the 2013 Lions Tour, and briefly the 15 RWC which was used as an advert for that too. Howley's not good enough. Dai Young seems the only qualified Welshman. If it means going abroad again, so be it. If it means getting another saviour to oversee top to bottom as Gatland seems to have done in the past, so be it. But we need a Welsh coach for Wales, not a NH coach aiming to get the All Blacks' job.

Responsibility lies with the players, clearly, but the regions are so far behind the English Premiership, let alone SH, they're on a hiding to nothing, and Gatland's team is no longer bridging the gap with intense fitness training/rigid defensive structures when those same players play for Wales.

All in all, about as good as Wales could have hoped for really. Never properly looked like losing the game.

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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 2:36 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't know what the hell he was doing in the build-up to Hernandez's try.

I think it was either:
a) Hernandez out paced him, which is not fair as he is an O.A.P. so should run slower
b) Hernandez didn't go to ground when he was being held back by Biggar, which is unfair as Dan was trying his best to stop him

lolz. Yes, Biggar was all mouth in his early career, but then seemed to calm himself when he became Wales no1. I wonder if he is like the canary down the coalmine, showing us ow much stress the team is under?

Or maybe it's just him, now that Sam and Anscombe are looking like real challengers (not because they are objectively better than Dan, but because if we are going to change the way we play, they are more likely to be able to offer that novelty.

Incidentally, as I understand it, the deadline for the RWC seedings won't be decided until next May, so the whole of the 6N and maybe the 2017 AIs will count.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 4:25 pm

rumpelstiltskindoh wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I don't know what the hell he was doing in the build-up to Hernandez's try.

I think it was either:
a) Hernandez out paced him, which is not fair as he is an O.A.P. so should run slower
b) Hernandez didn't go to ground when he was being held back by Biggar, which is unfair as Dan was trying his best to stop him

lolz. Yes, Biggar was all mouth in his early career, but then seemed to calm himself when he became Wales no1. I wonder if he is like the canary down the coalmine, showing us ow much stress the team is under?

Or maybe it's just him, now that Sam and Anscombe are looking like real challengers (not because they are objectively better than Dan, but because if we are going to change the way we play, they are more likely to be able to offer that novelty.

Incidentally, as I understand it, the deadline for the RWC seedings won't be decided until next May, so the whole of the 6N and maybe the 2017 AIs will count.  

I honestly wonder if the goal kicking duties being given to 1/2p has an impact too. As Biggar has built a rep as a reliable boot, so no doubt having someone else taking over just impact on how you feel.
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