Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by George Carlin on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:15 am

Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Irelan10       Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November All_bl10
IRELAND v NEW ZEALAND
19 November 2016
KO: 17:30
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on Sky Sports 2

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal (France), Ian Davies (Wales)
Television match official: Jon Mason (Wales)
Assessor: Chris White (England)

A. Head to Head

29 Played 29
1 Won 27
1 Drawn 1
27 Lost 1
310 Points 812

B. Recent Form 

5 November 2016
Soldier Field, Chicago IL
40–29 to Ireland

24 November 2013 
Aviva Stadium, Dublin 
22 – 24 to New Zealand 

23 June 2012 
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 
60 – 0 to New Zealand 

16 June 2012 
Rugby League Park, Christchurch 
22 – 19 to New Zealand

9 June 2012 
Eden Park, Auckland 
42 – 10 to New Zealand

20 November 2010 
Aviva Stadium, Dublin 
18 – 38 to New Zealand 

C. Teams

IRELAND 
Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Guinne10
R Kearney; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, T Furlong; D Toner, D Ryan; CJ Stander, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, C Healy, F Bealham, I Henderson, J van der Flier, K Marmion, P Jackson, G Ringrose.

NEW ZEALAND
Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Speigh10
B Smith; I Dagg, M Fekitoa, A Lienert-Brown, J Savea; B Barrett, A Smith; J Moody, D Coles, O Franks; B Retallick, S Whitelock; L Squire, S Can, K Read (capt).

Replacements: C Taylor, W Crockett, C Faumuina, S Barrett, A Savea, TJ Perenara, A Cruden, W Naholo.


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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:23 am

A. Head to Head

29 Played 29
1 Won 27
1 Drawn 1
27 Lost 1
310 Points 812

B. Recent Form

5 November 2016
Soldier Field, Chicago IL
40–29 to Ireland


If this game goes to recent form then it should be a straightforward win for Ireland.

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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:28 am

I think NZ will come out to blast us off the park and sow the seed of doubt back in Irish heads.

If Ireland can withstand the early onslaught and nick a few points then the seeds of doubt may be in the NZ heads.

One thing is sure the collisions are going to be mighty!

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:55 am

In the NZ Herald:
All Blacks: Who will play against Ireland?
By Gregor Paul in Rome
11:00 AM Sunday Nov 13, 2016

The All Blacks performance in Rome provided confirmation rather than revelation in regard to their probable team selection for the next test against Ireland.

The quality of the performance in Rome was high. A number of individuals pushed their cause, but not so much to start this week in Ireland - more to say they have what it takes to play test football and deserve their place in the squad.

Wyatt Crockett managed 70 minutes - a long day out for a big man - and may have the selectors thinking about starting him ahead of Joe Moody. But probably not. The fact they gave Crockett such a long outing suggests they are not expecting him to have to power through such a long shift in Dublin. They may also have been conscious of keeping Moody's powder dry.

Sam Whitelock didn't play but did appear to be running freely as he went through a few fitness drills before the game and he is possibly going to be ready to resume his place in the second row alongside Brodie Retallick, who has cleaned the pipes so to speak with a 25 minute run in Rome.

He replaced Patrick Tuipulotu whose energy was obvious and impact considerable. Given the struggles the All Blacks had in Chicago, they may look to have a specialist lock on the bench for the re-match and presumably Tuipulotu earned that role in Rome.

The loose trio of Jerome Kaino, Sam Cane and Kieran Read will surely return as along as all three are fit. Another run out has given the selectors a bit more confidence about playing Aaron Smith from the start and just because he had an off day in Chicago, that doesn't mean they no longer see him as the best halfback in the world.

The midfield pairing of Anton Leinert-Brown and Malakai Fekitoa are really the only option unless Ryan Crotty makes a miracle recovery. The aim for those two against Italy was to gel and work effectively in tandem which they did.

If there is a tricky area to pick, it will be the back three. Israel Dagg was impressive and his ability in the air will be a trump card. Ireland were superb at kick and chase at Soldier Field and the All Blacks will want to tidy up their work in that area.

Bringing Dagg is in the best way to make an immediate improvement. Who joins him on the other wing, though? Waisake Naholo was good against Italy - busy, accurate and aware. Julian Savea is always hard to leave out, though so the decision might come down to gut feel. Which of those two do the selectors feel is in the best physical and mental shape to give the team the most? They can probably hedge their bets to some extent as whichever one misses out, may be the best choice to have as the outside back cover on the bench.

- NZ Herald

and
Rugby: Selection headaches for Ireland ahead of All Blacks re-match
2:49 PM Sunday Nov 13, 2016

Ireland coach Joe Schmidt admits he faces tough decisions at the selection table ahead of next weekend's return bout against the All Blacks.

The Irish eased past Canada 52-21 in Dublin this morning, in a comfortable albeit sloppy eight-try victory over the world No.18.

New Zealand-born Schmidt fielded an entirely new XV from the side that made history with the maiden win over the All Blacks, the 40-29 victory in Chicago last weekend.

He knows the All Blacks will pitch back up in Dublin on Sunday morning desperate to make amends - and hopes he will spend the first half of next week agonising over the Ireland XV for the eagerly-anticipated rematch.

"It's tough, yeah - in the back-row, the back-three, even front-row there's some tough decisions," said Schmidt.

"So we'll get together and sort those out. We'll announce the squad on Thursday and that squad will have been really, really closely looked at.

"Hopefully it will be the right squad to give the All Blacks another really good game."

The reality of Ireland's situation is that Schmidt is unlikely to make changes from the starting line-up that downed the All Blacks for Saturday's rematch.

Fit-again experienced back-rowers Peter O'Mahony and Sean O'Brien will probably battle it out for a spot on the bench for the Lansdowne Road encounter.

Both loose-forwards showed up well against Canada without hitting their full stride.

Finlay Bealham could have done enough to challenge Tadhg Furlong's starting berth at tighthead, while Earls will push hard to be included against the All Blacks too.

"Really I take quite a long time going back through the game," said Schmidt.

"You get a gut feel post the game and there's some tough decisions to make.

"Then you try to crystallise those decisions with a really intensive look back.

"Then you get together with the other coaches and they will all put in their opinions and we try to best judge what will be the best 15, 23, even 25."

- AAP
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Post by carpet baboon on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 8:44 am

Think it will be the same starting 15.
Sob or pom onto the bench. Maybe Jackson instead of joey. And maybe earls instead of ringtone. But that will be it

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Post by the-goon on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 10:37 am

We will have a wider pitch this week, most likely Dagg in the back 3, and proper 2nd rows. This means that their lineout should function better, their maul defense will be better, their aerial game will be better, and there will be more space out wide for their back 3 to exploit.

If we play the same team, NZ will be able to exploit Kearney and our general lack of pace. Tries against them will be a lot tougher due to the improved 2nd row.

We need to do something a little different to beat them. Joe should take a risk on Ringrose at 13 and Payne at 15, he now has a lot of credit in the bank. We need more pace and creativity if we are to score tries against them, and we will need at least 4. We need to keep them guessing.

Hendy into the 2nd row ahead of Ryan as well, Dilane stays on the bench. Leaning to POM on the bench, but the thought of SOB on the rampage for final 30 is tempting, the problem is that he hasn't been showing it. He might be more comfortable against NZ because now that he made the 23, he doesn't need to try too hard. Still a risk.

Earls and Jackson to the bench. Also, 10 our fathers and 5 hail Mary's from the entire country that Murray can play the full 80.

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Post by carpet baboon on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 10:52 am

Now goon I agree with your team. Just can't see it happening

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Post by Golden on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:10 am

Cant we just re-do the side lines and make the pitch narrow?  Smile

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Post by rodders on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:40 am

Ireland have the ABs number, fancy us to win by 30 points or so.
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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:44 am

With Munster beating the MAB too it has helped to burst the invincibility bubble still further.

Expecting a huge backlash on Saturday. If they can withstand it and win, it will arguably be a bigger achievement than the 1st win!

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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:46 am

If you can burst a bubble still further Headscratch

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Post by the-goon on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 2:33 pm

rodders wrote:Ireland have the ABs number, fancy us to win by 30 points or so.

That's the spirit!

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 4:27 pm

Ireland by 8

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Post by wolfball on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 4:27 pm

the-goon wrote:
rodders wrote:Ireland have the ABs number, fancy us to win by 30 points or so.

That's the spirit!

I mean if its going to be that onesided, sure we may as well skip the match completely. Cheers ABs well played Whistle

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 4:30 pm

I expect New Zealand to up their performance substantially from two weeks ago. However the All Blacks were on a pedestal in Ireland, they were untouchable, it was bordering on a silly level of admiration and awe. NZ may well win the game this weekend, but they'll never be able to put Ireland back into that mental box. We know they can be beaten, they can be cut, they do bleed. And there is an entire generation of players coming through the gap behind them that have grown up seeing 6N titles, HCup titles, Ireland winning in SA, Ireland beating NZ. It's special to us old fogies, but to these academy lads coming through, its expected.


Just not this weekend.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 5:12 pm

SecretFly wrote:If the ABs plan for and can't get about three tries inside fifteen minutes of the start then I'd seriously think about sacking Hanson if I was in charge of the NZRU... because if the ABs are the ABs that's the plan they'll have in mind for a side that has so recently beat them.

If we can stop them getting off to that head-of-steam start then we probably have a hope of keeping a losing score decent...enough.  It will be a monumental achievement now for Ireland to come away with a win when the ABs are primed to give the world one of their harder unstopping, unstoppable gameplans.

I wish for the miracle but I don't expect it.

What defeatist crap, fly! Would you ever stop bullschidtting! How the hell are the players to believe they can do it when they tune into the web and hear rubbish like that? Of course they can do it.
The ABs will want to put the boot in of course, but that in itself would make it even more soul destroying for them if they get bogged down in the very same quagmire and ambush as they did last time. They intend to humiliate us but if we do another high energy counter-game of hassle and harry and if we get to break up their early game intentions then we could easily be on for a back to back. Joe should tell all players to hunt hard and then start introducing the subs earlier in the 2nd half.


Last edited by SecretFly on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by carpet baboon on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 5:22 pm

I think it will hinge on who the abs pick at 9. If it's smith he's going to want to make amends , if we can get at him early we can disrupt them, put that doubt back In there mind. Then smash them by 40

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Post by rodders on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 5:27 pm

Well the last time we had the audacity to lose to the ABs by a miserly 3 points they walloped us 60 nil a week later ....so what the hell will they do to us now!
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Post by brennomac on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 4:25 pm

Well the bookies, who had a 23pt spread for the Chicago game, are offering a 16pt spread for next Saturdays's game and are offering 6-1 against Ireland on the nose. After being scoffed at by some regulars on this board for taking a punt on Ireland last time, I will happily reinvest some of my winnings on Ireland to win again, and maybe also a treble with the spreads with some of the other internationals on Sat.

Betting aside, I don't see NZ beating us by 16 pts plus on Saturday, although no question NZ will be stronger with Cruden at 10, Retallick and maybe Whitelock in second row. But at front row and back row we match them, Conor Murray is on song any maybe Aaron Smith will still have this toilet cubicle antics on his mind, our defence is strong and hey we are scoring tries.

As for our back row, I'd go for CJ-Heaslip-VDF with POM on the bench - SOB still doesn't look look fully there yet and POM offers another line out option. Still can't decide who goes in the second row with Toner, Hendo probably offers a bit more oomph than D Ryan and I'd still like Dillance on the bench.

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Post by the-goon on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 5:05 pm

really hope this isn't true.

http://intheloose.com/2016/11/15/a-wrench-in-the-system-do-ireland-face-an-injury-blow-ahead-of-all-blacks-face-off/


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Post by rodders on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 5:10 pm

Isaac Boss can still do a job I reckon.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 5:11 pm

the-goon wrote:really hope this isn't true.

http://intheloose.com/2016/11/15/a-wrench-in-the-system-do-ireland-face-an-injury-blow-ahead-of-all-blacks-face-off/


Curious that the 'danger' of him missing the game isn't hovering around in other publications - that I can see anyway.

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Post by wolfball on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 5:35 pm

rodders wrote:Isaac Boss can still do a job I reckon.

Typical pro-leinster bias on here, Stringer is our man.

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Post by George Carlin on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 5:39 pm

Stringer must be 57 now or something. 

I'm also not sure that World Rugby rules let you bring an iron lung, a nurse and a box of Sanatogen onto the field with you.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 5:46 pm

Stringer, with zimmer frame, would still do a wonderful job. I miss him abusing his forwards' bums and climbing up on their backs when tired.

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Post by rodders on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 9:34 am

Changed my mind, after watching that Liam Neeson video I think we'll do it again.

"We're not here to take part, we're here to take over" - Oscar Wilde.
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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 9:40 am

I think we ill give them a good game.

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Post by the-goon on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:19 am

SecretFly wrote:
the-goon wrote:really hope this isn't true.

http://intheloose.com/2016/11/15/a-wrench-in-the-system-do-ireland-face-an-injury-blow-ahead-of-all-blacks-face-off/


Curious that the 'danger' of him missing the game isn't hovering around in other publications - that I can see anyway.

Curious indeed, my friend sent me the link. I also had a look elsewhere and couldn't find anything. Conor was moving pretty freely throughout the game last week. It does highlight our lack of depth at 9 tho.

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Post by George Carlin on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:25 am

Just whilst I'm here, where is Sean O'Brien's fitness at the moment?
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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:29 am

He played a full game v Canada. He is fit to start but will probably start on the bench with Van Der Flier in the team.

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:29 am

NZ do have their 'special' performances. Plus having the winning streak monkey off their back and wanting revenge. It could be brutal.

How Ireland deal with all of that will be a good indication of where they are

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:35 am

Thats what we are all worried about.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 12:05 pm

George Carlin wrote:Just whilst I'm here, where is Sean O'Brien's fitness at the moment?

His temper is 100% fit, I'm glad to see. It takes very little to set him off so, I don't know, maybe Joe will decide he's a little too fit in that area and choose wisely not to pick him.

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Post by marty2086 on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 12:11 pm

the-goon wrote:Curious indeed, my friend sent me the link. I also had a look elsewhere and couldn't find anything. Conor was moving pretty freely throughout the game last week. It does highlight our lack of depth at 9 tho.

Think I remember him stretching it at one point in Chicago and the commentators were talking about the injury but seems strange that he had the game of his life with it, is rested the week after and one outlet seems to think he'd be a doubt when they'd probably have had in wrapped in cotton wool and regularly dunked in an ice bath for the last 10 days

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 12:19 pm

As the players always say...they always play with niggles. In such an important series of games, if Murray had a serious issue, he wouldn't be chosen. If he has, like most players, aches and irritations, then he'll be out there on the field.

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Post by aucklandlaurie on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 1:12 pm

lostinwales wrote:NZ do have their 'special' performances. Plus having the winning streak monkey off their back and wanting revenge. It could be brutal.

How Ireland deal with all of that will be a good indication of where they are


Revenge doesnt come into it, its about the All Blacks preparation and performance.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 1:21 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
lostinwales wrote:NZ do have their 'special' performances. Plus having the winning streak monkey off their back and wanting revenge. It could be brutal.

How Ireland deal with all of that will be a good indication of where they are


Revenge doesnt come into it, its about the All Blacks preparation and performance.

Ah come on of course it does. New Zealand always want to beat the teams that they have lost to much more.

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Post by rodders on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 1:36 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:He played a full game v Canada. He is fit to start but will probably start on the bench with Van Der Flier in the team.

He came off with 15-20 min to go did he not?
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Post by SecretFly on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 1:36 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
lostinwales wrote:NZ do have their 'special' performances. Plus having the winning streak monkey off their back and wanting revenge. It could be brutal.

How Ireland deal with all of that will be a good indication of where they are


Revenge doesnt come into it, its about the All Blacks preparation and performance.

They were very gracious, laurie - and still are here in Dublin.  But now the gloves are off and Irish fans and players know the drill only too well.  We've had our win - now is the time for the All Blacks to reset the clock and drive all doubt from the minds of future opponents that they are the real deal and no push-over.

It's great actually.  If your boys slaughter us, it'll be because they can and want to - and what can you do in that situation except be as gracious about their ability as they've been about ours?  I'm a purist in that I don't believe in mercy in rugby terms - I believe that if you have the firepower to inflict serious injury (scoreline!) on an opponent, be ruthless and do so.  I think that's the greatest respect you can show any side, to play them as hard as you can and don't let up.

So if we're tortured at the weekend, I'll bow before the AB boys in respect.  The only chink I see is in that sliver of a doubt about us now in their mentality - we're no longer the side that can't beat them, and that'll make their resolve that little bit less sure at certain times in the game.  They'll now be thinking some of our kinda thoughts on the day: "Don't let it happen again!"  If we can put that idea into their heads for a spell, we have a chance. If we never get the chance to put that idea in their heads, it's going to be a high score against us.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 1:42 pm

rodders wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:He played a full game v Canada. He is fit to start but will probably start on the bench with Van Der Flier in the team.

He came off with 15-20 min to go did he not?

well New Zealand are only a 40 minute team now so that should be enough.

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Post by lostinwales on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 1:48 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
lostinwales wrote:NZ do have their 'special' performances. Plus having the winning streak monkey off their back and wanting revenge. It could be brutal.

How Ireland deal with all of that will be a good indication of where they are


Revenge doesnt come into it, its about the All Blacks preparation and performance.

Revenge might be the wrong word, but if there was not some added motivation because of what happened last time out then I would be truly amazed

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by Pot Hale on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 9:08 pm

Not sure this wider pitch idea will be of much help.

Soldier Field is 95m x 66m
Lansdowne is 100 x 68m
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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by mikey_dragon on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 9:58 pm

Ireland to chat sh't and get banged in this one.

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by SecretFly on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 10:00 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Not sure this wider pitch idea will be of much help.  

Soldier Field is 95m x 66m
Lansdowne is 100 x 68m

Help to whom?

ABs have already phoned me and told me they won't need to be concerned about pitch size this week as they'll be only be camping up at the white line in the Irish half of the field.

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by George Carlin on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 4:05 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Ireland to chat sh't and get banged in this one.
Laugh
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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:38 am

New Zealand team to meet Ireland in Dublin:

1. Joe Moody
2. Dane Coles
3. Owen Franks
4. Brodie Retallick
5. Sam Whitelock
6. Liam Squire
7. Sam cane
8. Kieren Read
9. Aaron Smith
10. Beauden Barrett
11. Julian Savea
12. Anton Lienent-Brown
13. Malakai Fekitoa
14. Israel Dagg
15. Ben Smith.

Interchange bench:

C.Taylor, W. Crockett, C. Faumuina, S.Barrett, A. Savea, T.J.Perenara, A. Cruden, W. Naholo.

Jerome Kaino not available through injury.

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by rapidsnowman on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 6:26 am

5 changes from starting XV 2 weeks ago?

2 new centres and a wing, and of course the second rows.

We all know what Dagg can do. What about the 2 new centres? how do they compare with the 2 they replace?

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by chewed_mintie on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 8:51 am

rapidsnowman wrote:5 changes from starting XV 2 weeks ago?

2 new centres and a wing, and of course the second rows.

We all know what Dagg can do. What about the 2 new centres? how do they compare with the 2 they replace?

ALB is the future. His offloading game in his first few test matches is of SBW standard. Crotty/ALB is a good combination but Crotty is injured. SBW/ALB would be frightening. Fekitoa is having some off field issues at the moment but he's still a fine player.

I think we'll be fine in that department on Saturday

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:13 am

Who will start for Ireland at 7 is the big question?

SOB
Van Der Flier
Peter O'Mahoney
Ultan Dillane has even been touted as a backrow option for Ireland.

My guess VDF with SOB and Dillane on the bench.

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by Big on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 9:26 am

I appreciate that I am adding no intelligent comment to the debate and I apologise in advance. However, I just wanted to say - I am looking forward to this game so so much.

Sure, not many people are giving Ireland much of a shout of winning back to back games, but you know what not many people thought England had a chance to win the Aussie series 3-0 either. So, in the fashion of a true neutral - COME ON IRELAND!!! Very Happy

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

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