Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 7:15 am

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 6 Irelan10       Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 6 All_bl10
IRELAND v NEW ZEALAND
19 November 2016
KO: 17:30
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on Sky Sports 2

Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal (France), Ian Davies (Wales)
Television match official: Jon Mason (Wales)
Assessor: Chris White (England)

A. Head to Head

29 Played 29
1 Won 27
1 Drawn 1
27 Lost 1
310 Points 812

B. Recent Form 

5 November 2016
Soldier Field, Chicago IL
40–29 to Ireland

24 November 2013 
Aviva Stadium, Dublin 
22 – 24 to New Zealand 

23 June 2012 
Waikato Stadium, Hamilton 
60 – 0 to New Zealand 

16 June 2012 
Rugby League Park, Christchurch 
22 – 19 to New Zealand

9 June 2012 
Eden Park, Auckland 
42 – 10 to New Zealand

20 November 2010 
Aviva Stadium, Dublin 
18 – 38 to New Zealand 

C. Teams

IRELAND 
Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 6 Guinne10
R Kearney; A Trimble, J Payne, R Henshaw, S Zebo; J Sexton, C Murray; J McGrath, R Best, T Furlong; D Toner, D Ryan; CJ Stander, S O'Brien, J Heaslip.

Replacements: S Cronin, C Healy, F Bealham, I Henderson, J van der Flier, K Marmion, P Jackson, G Ringrose.

NEW ZEALAND
Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 6 Speigh10
B Smith; I Dagg, M Fekitoa, A Lienert-Brown, J Savea; B Barrett, A Smith; J Moody, D Coles, O Franks; B Retallick, S Whitelock; L Squire, S Can, K Read (capt).

Replacements: C Taylor, W Crockett, C Faumuina, S Barrett, A Savea, TJ Perenara, A Cruden, W Naholo.


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Post by lostinwales on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:37 pm

clivemcl wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Clear as day forward pass in the middle of that play. Ref has been a joke. Not a single yellow issued is a joke.

two yellows were

OK well my wife is snoozing, and I've two under four running around - that's my excuse! Whistle

Was their yellow tabs on the scoreboard? Don't know how I missed that.

aaron smith 1st half (around 18 minutes)

Fekittoa around 49 mins for a high tackle

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Post by wolfball on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:37 pm

Well done NZ, our last 3 matches have been fantastic and a proper bit of edge developing between us.

We didn't deserve to win, but WR needs to either implement directives or not.

I cannot wait to play England in the 6 Nations.

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:38 pm

Taylorman wrote:Well done ABs, got the job done. Far too niggly and reflects the pressure the Irish laid on.

Pity anyone else playing Ireland in the next few months.

Schmidt has got this side firing nicely. 6N winners for me, the last round match at Aviva versus England sure to be the decider.

Billy stomped all over Ireland last time out but its always a tasty game these days. Both teams on the up

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:39 pm

What back row do we select against Australia? Flip me, there's a head scratcher. I wonder if Stander will be fit.

POM still has to return, who is probably the future captain.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:39 pm

clivemcl wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Anybody need any world class backrows? Leinster have too many.

And Nucifora is doing a stellar job isn't he??
You can't force players to move provinces. If they want to stay then let them as it's clearly not effecting their performances. Dom Ryan is the only one that should be pushing for a move.

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Post by Golden on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:41 pm

Ye absolutely the better team won. Disappointed not to even score a try though.

Haven't seen the stats but id imagine we dominated possession and territory and couldnt score. Cant really argue with that. Hope we stuff the Aussies.

Anyone know anything about the Sexton/stander injuries?

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Post by wolfball on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:43 pm

Remember when Ireland didn't have an international quality pack? Our pack is now the match of anyone.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:46 pm

By the way, out of interest, could someone provide a picture of the first try that was "clearly grounded"? Happy to admit that I was wrong about that one but I am genuinely curious as I don't think it was clearly grounded.

I think the try was probably scored and that would be my response if the question was "any reason why..."

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:46 pm

Scottrf wrote:Have to agree with some of the Irish whinging.

A lot of unpunished high tackles and forward passes. Also thought the TMO lied about seeing clear grounding.
Sexton should have been binned for a high tackle in the act of Barrett scoring
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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:47 pm

Cane got penalised for a dominant legal tackle

Poor refereeing
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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:49 pm

The blind NH touchie awarded an attacking line out to Ireland after an AB maul that went out when an Irish player pinched the ball and had it in his hands over the line
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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:50 pm

An Irish forward plucked the ball out of a retreating scrum and should have been penalised

Poor decision
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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:50 pm

Etc etc
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Post by clivemcl on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:51 pm

Taylorman wrote:Well done ABs, got the job done. Far too niggly and reflects the pressure the Irish laid on.

Pity anyone else playing Ireland in the next few months.

Schmidt has got this side firing nicely. 6N winners for me, the last round match at Aviva versus England sure to be the decider.

How is Irish will read what you just wrote... chin




'Our team normally tank everyone, the lack of high score on this occassion is down to our players not dealing with the brave wee Ireland team showing a bit of gusto.

This Irish side are actually pretty good (not like us of course, but not bad). They will maybe win the 2nd tier northern hemisphere competition since they seem to be the best of the lot up there.' laughing



I appreciate your sporting gesture of course Hug , but a team that genuinely wants to be competing at the top shouldn't be taking any comfort from New Zealand flattery despite losing.

Not sure how I missed the yellows - I think the graphics weren't showing. During stoppages in play I had to check on kids, and lack of yellow tabs made me assume they were still on. I'm actually fairly disappointing now knowing we had a quarter of the game with a man advantage!

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:51 pm

Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless
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Post by clivemcl on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:52 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Anybody need any world class backrows? Leinster have too many.

And Nucifora is doing a stellar job isn't he??
You can't force players to move provinces. If they want to stay then let them as it's clearly not effecting their performances. Dom Ryan is the only one that should be pushing for a move.

As long as they aren't foreigners stealing our jobs! censored

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:53 pm

clivemcl wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Well done ABs, got the job done. Far too niggly and reflects the pressure the Irish laid on.

Pity anyone else playing Ireland in the next few months.

Schmidt has got this side firing nicely. 6N winners for me, the last round match at Aviva versus England sure to be the decider.

How is Irish will read what you just wrote... chin




'Our team normally tank everyone, the lack of high score on this occassion is down to our players not dealing with the brave wee Ireland team showing a bit of gusto.

This Irish side are actually pretty good (not like us of course, but not bad). They will maybe win the 2nd tier northern hemisphere competition since they seem to be the best of the lot up there.'  laughing



I appreciate your sporting gesture of course  Hug , but a team that genuinely wants to be competing at the top shouldn't be taking any comfort from New Zealand flattery despite losing.

Not sure how I missed the yellows - I think the graphics weren't showing. During stoppages in play I had to check on kids, and lack of yellow tabs made me assume they were still on. I'm actually fairly disappointing now knowing we had a quarter of the game with a man advantage!

I could be mean and ask you to "take another look" as you asked me to do earlier. Wink

I thought your screen was clear for that first try, Clive! I'm disappointed.

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Post by Engine#4 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:58 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Well done ABs, got the job done. Far too niggly and reflects the pressure the Irish laid on.

Pity anyone else playing Ireland in the next few months.

Schmidt has got this side firing nicely. 6N winners for me, the last round match at Aviva versus England sure to be the decider.

Billy Mikey stomped all over Ireland Murray last time out but its always a tasty game these days. Both teams on the up

Whistle

Good hard game.  New Zealand worth their win. Ireland were always going to find it very difficult without Sexton.  O'Brien taking the pass from Toner the ball with the line at his mercy and it all could have been so different.  Barrett is a wizard.  Notice how refused to confirm he grounded the ball in the post match interview though Run

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:03 pm

clivemcl wrote:Not sure how I missed the yellows
Did you really watch the game?
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Post by theslosty on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:07 pm

The odd big decision went NZ's way but given the penalty count and 2 yellows I'm not going to complain on that front.

Our pack played well in the first half and I felt we were slightly unlucky to be 8 points down. It was unfortunate that SOB was held up over the line as I reckon we would have scored on the next phase.

Losing 3 key players in the first half hour was never ideal but in the second half we didn't really trouble NZ's defence in structured play. We have to trial a more attacking full back, also Trimble offers very little in attack however he probably saved us a few points out there.
Once Fekitoa came back on the field I couldn't see us coming back, his try was super although there were a couple of simple tackles missed on Ben Smith in the phase prior.

A 12-point loss isn't an embarrassment but I'm a tad disappointed given I thought we were well in it at half time. I'd rate our overall performance 6/10.
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Post by clivemcl on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:08 pm

ebop wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Not sure how I missed the yellows
Did you really watch the game?

Yes

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:10 pm

clivemcl wrote:
ebop wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Not sure how I missed the yellows
Did you really watch the game?

Yes
With an eagle eye evidently
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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:13 pm

ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:18 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.
What are you on about? The ABs defended superbly and Ireland couldn't get over the line. They could have off that line out move but the forward fluffed it.

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:20 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.

True, if there were no ABs in front of them they still wouldn't have made the line is really what you are saying?

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:23 pm

clivemcl wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Well done ABs, got the job done. Far too niggly and reflects the pressure the Irish laid on.

Pity anyone else playing Ireland in the next few months.

Schmidt has got this side firing nicely. 6N winners for me, the last round match at Aviva versus England sure to be the decider.

How is Irish will read what you just wrote... chin




'Our team normally tank everyone, the lack of high score on this occassion is down to our players not dealing with the brave wee Ireland team showing a bit of gusto.

This Irish side are actually pretty good (not like us of course, but not bad). They will maybe win the 2nd tier northern hemisphere competition since they seem to be the best of the lot up there.'  laughing



I appreciate your sporting gesture of course  Hug , but a team that genuinely wants to be competing at the top shouldn't be taking any comfort from New Zealand flattery despite losing.

Not sure how I missed the yellows - I think the graphics weren't showing. During stoppages in play I had to check on kids, and lack of yellow tabs made me assume they were still on. I'm actually fairly disappointing now knowing we had a quarter of the game with a man advantage!

Really? The ABs genuinely want to compete at the top and both them and their fans were very complimentary in the Irish performance despite losing. Has that changed in two weeks?

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:34 pm

clivemcl wrote:
How is Irish will read what you just wrote... chin

'Our team normally tank everyone, the lack of high score on this occassion is down to our players not dealing with the brave wee Ireland team showing a bit of gusto.

This Irish side are actually pretty good (not like us of course, but not bad). They will maybe win the 2nd tier northern hemisphere competition since they seem to be the best of the lot up there.'  laughing

The way I read your post is....

Sour grapes because you don't like ABs winning (I don't think you're Irish, probably English?)

Tman said nothing of the sort

You are reflecting 'your thoughts' alone
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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:38 pm

ebop wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.
What are you on about? The ABs defended superbly and Ireland couldn't get over the line. They could have off that line out move but the forward fluffed it.


You ask what am I on about and then proceed to answer your own question Laugh

No doubt the ABs defense was superb. The shoulder to the head of Henshaw, a key player, was particularly effective. Wonderful stuff.

It's not sour grapes from me though. I enjoyed the game and accept the ABs played the ref much better than we did. That's just how it goes. Ireland still have things to improve on, but the two tests have me feeling pretty optimistic about this side. Keeping as close as we did today without Henshaw, Sexton and Stander was fairly impressive.

Onwards and upwards, Ireland.

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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:40 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.

True, if there were no ABs in front of them they still wouldn't have made the line is really what you are saying?

Of course it is pet. Of course it is. That's why we put 5 past you a fortnight ago. Short memory some of you blokes, or maybe without two locks you don't consider that an AB side? Who knows, eh?

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:49 pm

Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.
What are you on about? The ABs defended superbly and Ireland couldn't get over the line. They could have off that line out move but the forward fluffed it.


You ask what am I on about and then proceed to answer your own question Laugh

No doubt the ABs defense was superb. The shoulder to the head of Henshaw, a key player, was particularly effective. Wonderful stuff.

It's not sour grapes from me though. I enjoyed the game and accept the ABs played the ref much better than we did. That's just how it goes. Ireland still have things to improve on, but the two tests have me feeling pretty optimistic about this side. Keeping as close as we did today without Henshaw, Sexton and Stander was fairly impressive.

Onwards and upwards, Ireland.
Sounds like you're the one comforting yourself mate thumbsup

Ah right, you were implying Ireland were tryless for 80 minutes because of that one chance where an Ireland player kept Ireland tryless because he dropped a gimme pass. Good on ya Smile


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Post by clivemcl on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:01 pm

ebop wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
ebop wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Not sure how I missed the yellows
Did you really watch the game?

Yes
With an eagle eye evidently

A one year old and a three year old in my charge. Whats your point? Or just being an arse? I've been commenting all game long - you can check. You come in after full time just to stir.
Whatever send you to bed feeling you've lived a fulfilled life I guess. Best of luck Ale

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Post by ebop on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:41 pm

clivemcl wrote:
ebop wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
ebop wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Not sure how I missed the yellows
Did you really watch the game?

Yes
With an eagle eye evidently

A one year old and a three year old in my charge. Whats your point? Or just being an arse? I've been commenting all game long - you can check. You come in after full time just to stir.
Whatever send you to bed feeling you've lived a fulfilled life I guess. Best of luck Ale
And I was looking after my 4 month old daughter and 4 year old son. I noticed the two yellow cards and several missed calls going Irelands way. But didn't have the juggling ability to also post during the game. I generally don't anyway. I'm interested in how fans react after games and whether a fair account is given. I can understand the general vibe today after the Chicago high. Anyways, best of luck to you yourself Ale I hope you have a great sleep thumbsup


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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:52 pm

I had forgotten how cynical the All Blacks are when cornered. The 'no arms' and head wrenching tackles pinged echoes of Meads ending Catchpoles career.

When winning becomes so important to the exclusion of sportsmanship maybe it's time to hope Ireland never approach the league of the All Blacks?

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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:06 pm

ebop wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.
What are you on about? The ABs defended superbly and Ireland couldn't get over the line. They could have off that line out move but the forward fluffed it.


You ask what am I on about and then proceed to answer your own question Laugh

No doubt the ABs defense was superb. The shoulder to the head of Henshaw, a key player, was particularly effective. Wonderful stuff.

It's not sour grapes from me though. I enjoyed the game and accept the ABs played the ref much better than we did. That's just how it goes. Ireland still have things to improve on, but the two tests have me feeling pretty optimistic about this side. Keeping as close as we did today without Henshaw, Sexton and Stander was fairly impressive.

Onwards and upwards, Ireland.
Sounds like you're the one comforting yourself mate thumbsup

Ah right, you were implying Ireland were tryless for 80 minutes because of that one chance where an Ireland player kept Ireland tryless because he dropped a gimme pass. Good on ya Smile

Yeah, keep telling yourself that, ebop.

No. You do remember that Ireland had two attempts held up, or do you also suffer from memory loss? You did say that the ABs kept Ireland tryless. At least now you admit you were wrong.

The ABs were cynical, but were simply playing the ref. Ireland could only play what was in front of them, and we weren't good enough on the day. Poor ball handling was the biggest culprit, but the upside of that is we can improve on the basics.  

Overall, I think the two tests have been a huge positive for Ireland. The 6Ns will be incredible with Ireland, England, Scotland and France fighting it out. Not sure about Wales. Italy also beat the Boks. Could see them causing problems for the over confident.


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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:07 pm

Very sad to see a team like the ABs stoop to that level of cynicism and cheating..

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Post by Heaf on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:22 pm

Aided and abetted by the officials ... there should have been more YCs dished out

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Post by Hood83 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:28 pm

ebop wrote:
clivemcl wrote:
How is Irish will read what you just wrote... chin

'Our team normally tank everyone, the lack of high score on this occassion is down to our players not dealing with the brave wee Ireland team showing a bit of gusto.

This Irish side are actually pretty good (not like us of course, but not bad). They will maybe win the 2nd tier northern hemisphere competition since they seem to be the best of the lot up there.'  laughing

The way I read your post is....

Sour grapes because you don't like ABs winning (I don't think you're Irish, probably English?)

Tman said nothing of the sort

You are reflecting 'your thoughts' alone

Please expand Headscratch

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:31 pm

Hmmm, I seem to have popped up at a tense time.

To hell with the recriminations.  Hail Heaslip.  Big big display.  Very good from O'Brien too.

A lot of effort in that performance - a lot of energy.  The 'lacking' part remains the accuracy of the more punchy stuff.  When we try things to make that break, they too often get fumbled - little of it gets to be sweet and slick. Lots of work needed on our attacking accuracy at speed.  There is still a tension that keeps us back as we try to believe we're good enough, and the lingering doubts still cause us to rush to things rather than just having a cool head to keep thinking of process.

I was disappointed - mostly by the decision to take the points in the first half when the positive head of steam was up and we had them where we wanted them.  The points were taken instead - the heat went out of the assault.  They got possession back and, in my opinion, not great team decisions by us.  It also gave the ABs the idea that our hearts mightn't be as bullish this time round.

Anyway, I think Schmidt's disappointment is a positive ( I can sense he feels we had that game again had perhaps some of our hub players remained on the field) - and he's right to highlight the point that many, including me, feared it might be a landslide by the ABs in the first half. Instead, we've given them two tough encounters - they looked like they were in a game tonight and that pleases me.  I always hate to see the ABs come off a field looking as fresh as they went on.

We have a lot of positives to think about.  Younger players look up for a more dynamic game.  The team put it on the line against the best.  The quality of the ABs shone through.  Ireland should still feel optimistic in the morning.  Drop this one into history and quickly reset for Australia.

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Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November - Page 6 Empty Re: Ireland v New Zealand, 19 November

Post by Engine#4 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:32 pm

I don't think NZ were particularly cynical or intentionally nasty.  They gave away a fair few penalties but that tends happen when the other team has most of the ball and territory.  It's up to the ref to dish out cards when a team is offside under their own posts.  There were a few dodgy tackles too but again, it happens in a contact sport.

What I feel compelled to mention to our Kiwi friends is that there might be a general frustration amongst Irish fans at our team and players coming out the wrong side of a complete lack of consistency in refereeing decisions in big games over the last few years.  

I don't think Cane did much wrong in his tackle on Henshaw.  He knocked him out trying to tackle him, it was an accident, move on.  However a few months ago Stander knocked out Lambie trying to block a kick and it was a straight red.  This is just the latest example.  When an Irish player gets carted off on a stretcher it always seems to be an accident whereas when it's the other way around, the Irish player has a duty of care and intent is irrelevant because an injury resulted.


Last edited by Engine#4 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Taylorman on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:34 pm

Munchkin wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.

True, if there were no ABs in front of them they still wouldn't have made the line is really what you are saying?

Of course it is pet. Of course it is. That's why we put 5 past you a fortnight ago. Short memory some of you blokes, or maybe without two locks you don't consider that an AB side? Who knows, eh?

Yes Munchkin, I also recall the humility in which we took that loss. Whereas you represent yourself very poorly...pet. Btw...How is Toto anyway?

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:35 pm

Heaf wrote:Aided and abetted by the officials ... there should have been more YCs dished out

Jaco (I couldn't really see it) Peyper.

Or

Jaco ( its only the red zone if its at the other end ) Peyper..

Almost as good as

Glen ( I like my Southern hemisphere buddies') Jackson for the French game

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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:44 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
ebop wrote:Well done ABs keeping Irish tryless

It was the Irish that kept the Irish tryless, but you go ahead and comfort yourself with the thought.

True, if there were no ABs in front of them they still wouldn't have made the line is really what you are saying?

Of course it is pet. Of course it is. That's why we put 5 past you a fortnight ago. Short memory some of you blokes, or maybe without two locks you don't consider that an AB side? Who knows, eh?

Yes Munchkin, I also recall the humility in which we took that loss. Whereas you represent yourself very poorly...pet. Btw...How is Toto anyway?

Toto's dead, stuffed, with a red slipper sticking out of his arse, but he doesn't complain, so he must be fine.

I'm not seeing much humility from other side on here. Humility tends to be fleeting, and I don't put much store in it anyway. I'd rather people were honest than being 'ever so umble'. The ABs are a fantastic side - that's honest. The ABs were cynical today - that's also honest.

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:17 pm

Notwithstanding the allegations of AB cheating (nothing new there then) I'd like to apologize to the Irish on behalf of all Welshmen for the TMO lying that he could see the ball grounded. Sexton did very well and clearly stopped a grounding. I am glad that the non try didnt affect the outcome.

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Post by Engine#4 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:25 pm

Gwlad wrote:Notwithstanding the allegations of AB cheating (nothing new there then) I'd like to apologize to the Irish on behalf of all Welshmen for the TMO lying that he could see the ball grounded. Sexton did very well and clearly stopped a grounding. I am glad that the non try didnt affect the outcome.

Foiled by Gatland again, we should have known! broken

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Post by clivemcl on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 11:57 pm

I'll say it again,
I'm fairly sure the ball was grounded, and I'm an Irish fan. I wont argue for my side if I don't believe it's true. As far as the ABs nasty play - when a player ducks coming into contact, or a tackle on the shoulder slips up to the neck etc... I just accept the penalty and move on. But it's entirely different when a player knows he cannot make a good tackle but does what he can and grabs a players at speed around the neck - just because they need to kill the momentum - well that just leaves a bad taste. And unfortunately this highlights the problems with the reffing these days - it's all too scientific and factual and black and white.

If somebody is being a hateful b6st4rd, they should in my view be punished more harshly that somebody who got it wrong in an instant during a high speed game. I've a long history of calling out blocking, pulling, low blows, shoulder charges, holding - because those are not positive skills - in fact it's intentional cheating.

But if someone like Cane is coming across to make a tackle at an estimated point A but the player in a flash decides to pivot and rotate towards that coming player - I think it's a little harsh to say he led with his shoulder or wrapped no arms.

I call a spade a spade. I'm glad to hear Fekitoa DID get a yellow, but I'm certain I saw more high tackles thereafter that were only penalties. IMO, as a team continues to be ill-disciplined in this way, harsher punishments should be given out as time passes for their inability to learn from previous penalisation? Is that not fair? chin

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Post by Gwlad on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 12:18 am

The ref asked the TMO a straightforward question, did you see the ball on the ground. He said he did. He didn't because he couldn't. He made an assumption based on what he could see which is not the point of the TMO. He should have said i cannot see the ball grounded.

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Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 12:38 am

Great game but disappointing that we couldn't score a try.

To beat NZ we need a bit of luck,2 weeks ago they lost key players to injury and we took advantage,this time it was the other way around.It's nice to see we're not too far behind them but we need a better attacking edge.

We've been adapting our style of play ever since we went out of the WC and while it's still a work in progress,at least we're seeing improvements.If we back it up next week then it will have been a good Autumn series.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 12:41 am

There were two angles filmed. One of them you could only see the ball going a bit behind Sexton's arm. You obviously couldn't confirm a grounding on that angle and had the TMO only that angle then, yes, we'd have a serious problem had he said he saw the ball grounded using that angle alone.
But that other angle - I prayed that Sexton managed a miracle - But no, my eyes saw a grounding on that angle. And however many times it was shown, my eyes still told me it was a grounding. Like clive, I'd have wished for the opposite but I always try to be fair to what happened in games. I saw a grounding.


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Post by SecretFly on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 12:45 am

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Great game but disappointing that we couldn't score a try.

To beat NZ we need a bit of luck,2 weeks ago they lost key players to injury and we took advantage,this time it was the other way around.It's nice to see we're not too far behind them but we need a better attacking edge.

We've been adapting our style of play ever since we went out of the WC and while it's still a work in progress,at least we're seeing improvements.If we back it up next week then it will have been a good Autumn series.

Yeah. Every game is a new 'test' - and next week will be a continuation of a test on our commitment to play that hardness of a game week after week. It's a brand where the opposition have to turn up 100% to compete - and I bow to the ABs who very much did. But against Australia. We have to prove we didn't put all our eggs in the ABs basket and go for them just as hard - for the full 80. We'll only improve at this tempo by continuing to play it week after week. And it looks like the 6N coming up - we're going to need it!

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Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 2:06 am

SecretFly wrote:There were two angles filmed.  One of them you could only see the ball going a bit behind Sexton's arm.  You obviously couldn't confirm a grounding on that angle and had the TMO only that angle then, yes, we'd have a serious problem had he said he saw the ball grounded using that angle alone.
But that other angle - I prayed that Sexton managed a miracle - But no, my eyes saw a grounding on that angle.  And however many times it was shown, my eyes still told me it was a grounding.  Like clive, I'd have wished for the opposite but I always try to be fair to what happened in games.  I saw a grounding.
That's how I saw it too. On one view, it looked for all the world that Sexton had ripped the ball away from Barrett. However, the other view showed Barrett just getting the tip of the ball down beforehand. I can well imagine a different set of officials not awarding the try but that doesn't mean the guys at the weekend got it wrong.

The thing about incidents like this is that it's hard to look at them in isolation. You always remember the other times you've been on the end of bad decisions in Test matches, and the occasions when New Zealand have got the rub of the green, and then some.

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