Wales v Japan 19/11/16

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Post by wayne on Tue 15 Nov 2016, 10:06 am

First topic message reminder :

Wales v Japan 19/11/16 - Page 2 Wales_10Wales v Japan 19/11/16 - Page 2 Japan110
WALES v JAPAN
19 November 2016
KO: 14:30
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Referee: Marius van der Westhuizen (South Africa)
Assistant referees: John Lacey (Ireland), Craig Maxwell-Keys (England)
Television match official: Eric Gauzins (France)
Assessor: Bryce Lawrence (New Zealand)

Wales played 9 Won 8 Lost 1

Wales: Liam Williams; Halfpenny J Davies, Roberts, Cuthbert; Anscombe, Lloyd Williams; Smith, Baldwin, Lee, Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Lydiate, Warburton (capt), King.

Replacements: Dacey, Gill, Andrews, Ball, Moriarty, G Davies, S Davies, Giles.

Japan: Matsushima, Yamada, Lafaele, Tatekawa, Fukuoka, Tamura, Tanaka; Nakatani, Horie, Hatakeyama, Kajikawa, Anise, Ilaua, Nunomaki, Mafi

Replacements: Hino, Yamamoto, Ito, Helu, Matsuhashi, Mimura, Uchida, Lotoahea

This is a potential banana skin game for us, IMO we cannot treat Japan with contempt and select a completely different team from last weekend, we should try to bed in a couple of alternatives to our first choices in crucial positions.

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Post by munkian on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 11:53 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I like this bit:

Rob Howley: "Leigh has done well at full-back but we are giving an opportunity to Liam...and we want to have a look at what this option gives us."

The world and his wife knows what this option gives us!

A yellow card ?
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Post by chris_501 on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 12:15 pm

Also congratulations to Cory Hill on his first start. He looked good when he came on against Australia so hopefully he can put in another good performance.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 12:28 pm

Too many changes for me fam. Pleased for Hill though, I think he'll do well.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 12:37 pm

Anyone know the only two current Wales players to win a game v New Zealand All Blacks?

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Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 1:00 pm

In the interests of consistency in performance, and introducing new caps I would have went for the following:
Wales: Liam Williams; Leigh Halfpenny Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Keelan Giles, Gareth Anscombe, Lloyd Williams; Nicky Smith, Scott Baldwin, Tomas Francis, Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones, Sam Warburton (capt), James King, Ross Moriarty.

Replacements: Kristian Dacey, Rhys Gill, Samson Lee, Cory Hill, Justin Tipuric, Gareth Davies, Dan Biggar, Jamie Roberts.

Francis finally looks like the finished article, we should have handed him more game time. 6 & 7 are interchangeable but this was a copy and paste job from the BBC article and I couldn't be bothered to edit that. We know what Lydiate, Roberts and Cuthbert can and can't do. Their inclusion in this squad is pointless - I'd have them back at their clubs until they start looking like their old selves.

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:08 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know the only two current Wales players to win a game v New Zealand All Blacks?

Jamie Roberts and whoever else was playing in that BaBas game, what, 7 years ago? 6 years ago? Could be anyone from Shane, Martyn, Gethin...I'll go out on a limb and say Dwayne Peel?

If not, because that does seem a bit mad, my guess (not really remembering which season it was played in) would be Martyn Williams. Or have I got it wrong, and it was actually two players on two different occasions?

EDIT: completely misread, it says current Welsh players. In that case I'll go for Gethin.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:11 pm

miaow wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Anyone know the only two current Wales players to win a game v New Zealand All Blacks?

Jamie Roberts and whoever else was playing in that BaBas game, what, 7 years ago? 6 years ago? Could be anyone from Shane, Martyn, Gethin...I'll go out on a limb and say Dwayne Peel?

If not, because that does seem a bit mad, my guess (not really remembering which season it was played in) would be Martyn Williams. Or have I got it wrong, and it was actually two players on two different occasions?

EDIT: completely misread, it says current Welsh players. In that case I'll go for Gethin.  

Ha yes well done. It was Leigh Halfpenny who played 20 minutes off the bench. As did Andy Powell.

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:15 pm

Ah, no way. Would never have guessed Halfpenny. Or Powell, that goes without saying. All playing for the Blues then presumably? I remember it was a SA and Aus select XV, and Roberts linking up well with Habana. Hope he enjoyed it, it's not going to happen in a Welsh shirt for him, and he's got a fight on his hands to make the Lions squad.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:16 pm

Three Italians too.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:18 pm

I think it is the only game Wyatt Crockett has ever lost in an AB jersey

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Post by miaow on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:26 pm

Good stats. In terms of All Blacks stats, Richie McCaw has some of the most amazing win ratios as a player and captain. Something like a third of all All Black wins since the start of the 20th Century involved McCaw playing. I know Test rugby is far more frequent these days, but that's nothing short of remarkable. It's something like a 95% win ratio as captain too, if I'm not mistaken.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:34 pm

I feel like Williams at 15 and 1/2P at wing is a sweetener for Cuthbert starting. Howler still had to do Cement's let players play their way into form, with 6, 11 and 12.

The worst bit he said was this though

"Ospreys wing Keelan Giles will hopefully come on at some time against Japan to play in an experienced back line".

Why not start him then with the experienced back line. Grade A idiot.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 3:35 pm

Delighted for Cory. Lineout calling too. Hope it goes well, or I wonder who McBryde will scapegoat


Last edited by RiscaGame on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:27 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I like this bit:

Rob Howley: "Leigh has done well at full-back but we are giving an opportunity to Liam...and we want to have a look at what this option gives us."

The world and his wife knows what this option gives us!

No, Rob doesn't know.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:30 pm

Evidently he also doesn't know what Cuthbert, Roberts and Lydiate offer, and don't offer.

He's a slow f*cking learner, old Rob.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 5:51 pm

I actually believed Cuthbert might finally get the P45 after his performance against Australia. I still can't get over how he gave away that penalty against England in RWC at the end and then as he ran back slapped his own leg as if to say "Gosh what a complete feckin idiot i am"

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Post by Guest on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 6:14 pm

Aus were clearly targeting Cuthbert as a weak link. When I watched it back they put up a lot of balls to him and targeted his wing in the knowledge that it would more than likely pay dividends. And it did. Guaranteed success.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 17 Nov 2016, 6:20 pm

WOW, that is alott of changes for this game. If it pays off. well done to Howley.

However if it doesn't, well it won't look too good for replacing Gatland. will it?

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Post by rainbow-warrior on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 7:51 am

We disrespected Japan a few years ago and lost to them. Many of the Welsh were in Australia with the Lions but they still sent a very poor squad and they were taught a lesson. Let's not go back that far, let's look back to Wales v Chiefs (which in honesty were a Waikato XV) and the hammering we took. We need a consistent squad who play together all the time not a put together XV that has 10 changes 4 - 5 changes fine but 10!

Still looks like a decent pick but it won't be an easy game. Let's not do a S Africa.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 10:58 am

They've been doing it for years. They always make a raft of changes for the supposedly easier games, struggle, and learn nothing - least of all, not to make so many changes!

We shouldn't have to put up with such dumb coaches. Seriously.

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 1:02 pm

The changes feel a bit different to me this time though.  10 changes sounds like a lot, and in the past it would have been 10 rookies into the starting 15, with 5 'old heads'.  But looking at this team we're actually bringing back in a fair amount of experience rather than chucking in rookies and expecting them to swim.  It's only really Nicky Smith, Cory Hill and James King.  So 3 'rookies' in the starting 15.  That's more my sort of numbers.  And, whether by design or chance, these occur only once in each unit - i.e. a rookie in the front row with two much more experiences players; a rookie in the 2nd row alongside one of the most capped locks ever; King in the back row with very experienced campaigners.

Funnily enough I was searching for the 'scratch' teams we've put out in the past in the 'non-tri nations' match.  I remembered the close Fiji game two years ago so expected the team to be pants however this is what we fielded and just scraped a 17-13 win. Looks pretty first choice to me!!!  Shocked :

•1 Gethin Jenkins (Captain)
•2 Scott Baldwin
•3 Samson Lee
•4 Bradley Davies
•5 Luke Charteris
•6 Dan Lydiate
•7 Justin Tipuric
•8 Taulupe Faletau


•9 Mike Phillips
•10 Rhys Priestland
•11 George North
•12 Jamie Roberts
•13 Scott Williams
•14 Alex Cuthbert
•15 Liam Williams

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Post by wayne on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 4:09 pm

Griff wrote:The changes feel a bit different to me this time though.  10 changes sounds like a lot, and in the past it would have been 10 rookies into the starting 15, with 5 'old heads'.  But looking at this team we're actually bringing back in a fair amount of experience rather than chucking in rookies and expecting them to swim.  It's only really Nicky Smith, Cory Hill and James King.  So 3 'rookies' in the starting 15.  That's more my sort of numbers.  And, whether by design or chance, these occur only once in each unit - i.e. a rookie in the front row with two much more experiences players; a rookie in the 2nd row alongside one of the most capped locks ever; King in the back row with very experienced campaigners.

Funnily enough I was searching for the 'scratch' teams we've put out in the past in the 'non-tri nations' match.  I remembered the close Fiji game two years ago so expected the team to be pants however this is what we fielded and just scraped a 17-13 win.  Looks pretty first choice to me!!!  Shocked :

•1 Gethin Jenkins (Captain)
•2 Scott Baldwin
•3 Samson Lee
•4 Bradley Davies
•5 Luke Charteris
•6 Dan Lydiate
•7 Justin Tipuric
•8 Taulupe Faletau


•9 Mike Phillips
•10 Rhys Priestland
•11 George North
•12 Jamie Roberts
•13 Scott Williams
•14 Alex Cuthbert
•15 Liam Williams

Good article Griff, the thing that gets to me is when we do make a lot of changes, we are pants. Then we take a look at the Irish in their last 2 matches, they practically change their entire team from NZ to Canada, and back again tomorrow. If we had done the same in these matches, we would lose. Considering how long our coaches have been in situ compared to Schmidt and company, we should be able to accomplish the same, but we all know it wouldn't happen.

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 5:06 pm

Wayne, I think it's to do with the 1 gameplan we have. Only a small number of players are able to execute Gatland's route one power-based gameplan, and even they struggle to do it half the time. So chuck in a load of less powerful players, for example, and the game plan is even harder to execute. And so rigid that we can't change it mid game.

Ireland play a much more open game, or at least allow enough flexibility to do that when needed. So the youngsters coming in can express themselves in a development/2nds game perhaps. Dunno. But agree with you. Everyone else's 2nd string still seem to be able to turn up the heat on the 2nd tier teams.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 5:55 pm

'Wales captain Sam Warburton expects a big performance from Jamie Roberts on his return to face Japan.

'Warburton said: "I think you're going to see Jamie running some pretty hard lines."'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38018102


No sh!t. Rolling Eyes

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Post by Guest on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 6:15 pm

Laugh

Way to state the obvious, Warbs! What about "Jamie's been working hard to add some variety to his game since he got dropped. He's now got a pretty good side step and can beat the man on the outside as as well as run through him"? Nah, thought not Sad


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Post by SecretFly on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 6:26 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:'Wales captain Sam Warburton expects a big performance from Jamie Roberts on his return to face Japan.

'Warburton said: "I think you're going to see Jamie running some pretty hard lines."'


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38018102


No sh!t. Rolling Eyes

Laugh

Give that man a See-gar!

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Post by Ineffable on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 6:40 pm

Japan by 70

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Post by Guest on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:34 am

Ineffable wrote:Japan by 70

Tumbleweed

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Post by uncle_nigel on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 10:06 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

No sh!t. Rolling Eyes

Roberts is a pretty good player but I'm just not seeing the game-variation that he has previously showed. Defence is usually his strongest suite yet against Aus it was incredibly poor - I've noticed that in all our matches against the Wallabies our midfield struggles to defend against the flair and running of the dangerous Aussie backs. I don't agree with Roberts' inclusion and would not have started him against Australia. Roberts would not be in my team until he showed some consistently-good form for Quins.

It was pointless starting him against Japan (along with Lydiate) because we know what they bring and right now I don't believe it is something that team Wales require. The team needs to head in a different direction with regards to playing rugby and these players need to adapt or be dropped. What are the odds that they have a good game against minnows Japan and our stand-in comedy staff are of the view "Normal service resumed." - and these guys are back in versus big boys SA and struggle. Howley, etc just seem a little out of touch with reality and it's worrying.

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Post by tigertattie on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 2:30 pm

Anyone got a link for this? The Muppet at BBC want me to install flash on my MacBook and after installing it from their own link, it just says it's out of date so won't play
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Post by wales606 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 2:33 pm

Terrible start
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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 2:41 pm

munkian wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I like this bit:

Rob Howley: "Leigh has done well at full-back but we are giving an opportunity to Liam...and we want to have a look at what this option gives us."

The world and his wife knows what this option gives us!

A yellow card ?

Shocked

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Post by wales606 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 2:47 pm

Oh dear Cuthbert. He really needs to stop being picked. It's not doing him any good playing like this on the international stage.
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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:06 pm

yes, cuthbert looks lost.

but wales are just brutalising the smaller team atm.

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Post by mckay1402 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:09 pm

cuthbert sort of reminds me of derwyn Jones lumbering about the park
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Post by mckay1402 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:09 pm

tiger try batman streams
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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:12 pm

jesus h christ

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Post by wales606 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:14 pm

I don't think I have ever seen a winger make so many mistakes in the first half - in defence and attack.

I would put Giles on at halftime and sent Cuthbert back to the Blues. Though if I was selected the Blues team at the moment, he would be waiting in line behind James and Scully.
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Post by Gwlad on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:18 pm

god we're Trump

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Post by chris_501 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:18 pm

Cuthbert is such a waste of time at the moment. So frustrating with Giles on the bench.

Also, someone needs to tell JD2 that he doesn't have to kick every ball he receives.

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:19 pm

wales606 wrote:I don't think I have ever seen a winger make so many mistakes in the first half - in defence and attack.

I would put Giles on at halftime and sent Cuthbert back to the Blues. Though if I was selected the Blues team at the moment, he would be waiting in line behind James and Scully.

Cuthbert must have something on Howley

Every game he wins the mistake stats. FFS he is not international class and is an embarrassment. Bring Giles on for the love of god

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Post by wales606 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:19 pm

The Good
Jonathan Davies
Halfpenny on the wing
Nicky Smith


The Bad
Cuthbert
Anscombe

Mixed
Lloyd Williams
Baldwin
Lydiate
Warburton

The Average
King
Roberts
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Post by wales606 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:21 pm

Will be good to see Moriarty and the backs off the bench fairly early
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Post by Gwlad on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:21 pm

chris_501 wrote:Cuthbert is such a waste of time at the moment. So frustrating with Giles on the bench.

Also, someone needs to tell JD2 that he doesn't have to kick every ball he receives.

He saw Scott do it effectively and thinks he now needs to do it every time. Again, witless. Now we should be play8ing Warrenball but we've been sucked in to trying to out football Japan

Where's the intensity

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:22 pm

wales606 wrote:The Good
Jonathan Davies
Halfpenny on the wing
Nicky Smith


The Bad
Cuthbert
Anscombe

Mixed
Lloyd Williams
Baldwin
Lydiate
Warburton

The Average
King
Roberts

The ugly Frak waste of space
Cuthbert

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Post by exile jack on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:24 pm

Jeesus wept.I can't watch anymore.Undiluted tripe.Worse than dire.

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:26 pm

Nugget nailed it. We are so unable to play heads up anymore. They load the line so we take it up the middle….but no leadership….I never see Sam chatting to anyone

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Post by Gwlad on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:28 pm

I hope Japan win and Howler gets sacked off

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Post by rumpelstiltskindoh on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:29 pm

1. We seem to be physically dominant - look at those scums - but what are we doing with it? Nothing.

2. Surely it must be obvious to Howley that the Liam/Halfpenny combo works best like this, with Liam at 15?

3. I'm not saying any more about Cuthbert, it would be cruel.

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Wales v Japan 19/11/16 - Page 2 Empty Re: Wales v Japan 19/11/16

Post by mckay1402 on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 3:30 pm

I thought king had a decent half. he's not moriarty but he's put a bit of pace on the ball and got going forward
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