PGA Tour: Beside the Seaside: Notes from the Ballwasher

First topic message reminder :

1).That's where we are this week, for the second week running after Mayakoba's beachside beauty - which is no way to describe winner Pat Perez. Quite the return from injury for Perez, long regarded as one of the Tour's premier "ball strikers" - if he was anywhere close as good between the ears as he is with his irons, he'd win five times a year, said Johnny Miller, or words to that effect anyway. Almost a shame he won as his combustible self-destruction act is quite something to behold.
And he's the third Mayakoba winner in a row to break a victory drought following Charley Hoffman and Graeme McDowell.

2).We travel this week to the Golden Isles of Georgia and the two courses that make up the venue for the RSM (formerly McGladrey) Classic. 18 holes each at the Plantation Course and Seaside Course, then 36 weekend holes at Seaside - a Harry Colt design originally, and a beautiful setting which will be graced by equally beautiful weather. These "Isles" are popular destinations for Tour players to live and practice, led by Davis Love and joined by Kuchar, Zach Johnson and several others.

3).A lot has happened in the past ten days. Obviously.
We all know the Ugly (not to say vulgar, racist, misogynistic, isolationist) which evolved into the Bad (very bad, tremendously bad), and was roundly welcomed by Pros from all US Tours and broadcast booths.
But there's been some good as well, in the world of Golf at least.

4).With impeccable timing, the Rolex Series for the European Tour was introduced, with the promise of at least one more tournament (France?) to be added to the seven already announced. Not sure we know all the details yet, and the ramifications for PGA Tour members (including South Africans) have yet to be established, but this can't be anything other than terrific news for the E.T.

5).Don't know whether this is good or what, but the reformatting of the Zurich Classic in New Orleans next April seems to beg more questions than it answers, not least any rationale surrounding owgr points (it seems none will be awarded) and how they're going to fill the field. And at a venue, New Orleans, that often experiences an untimely monsoon season to coincide with the tournament, how are they going to manage 160 golfers playing four-balls on the Friday?

6).Meanwhile, the LPGA seems interested in acquiring the Ladies European Tour and using it as feeder for its own Tour. Not sure how that will go down.

7).More positive news for European Seniors is that its new "Head" man, Dave McLaren, is laying out plans to increase the number of tournaments and raise prize money, hopefully within a couple of years. Don't expect Europe's Seniors to reach the kind of wealth that Bernhard Langer has achieved on the Champions Tour (almost $21M and counting), but anything to achieve stability would be welcomed. Meanwhile, the likes of Barry Lane and Van der Velde are competing here in Champions Tour Q-School (both leading in their respective venues after Round 1), hoping to join the likes of Langer, Montgomerie, Mechanic, Broadhurst, Woosie, Lyle and, when he feels fit to compete, Olazabal.

8).This time last year, Graeme McDowell travelled to the Seaside with a Mayakoba win under his belt and proceeded to finish third. Strange, then, that's he's not in this week's field, especially disappointing after three superb rounds last week. Luke Donald will be playing, trying to emerge from the wreckage of his career - a couple of runner-up finishes last year but nothing to suggest he'll be back at the top anytime soon. But these courses might suit him.

9).It's a sad commentary on the state of Australian Golf that last year's Aussie Open Champ, Matt Jones, is playing the RSM/McGladrey rather than defending his title. Admittedly he needs all the starts he can get after mysteriously taking last season just easy enough that he narrowly lost his card, but really . . . . . . . .

10).No PGA Tour action next week, even though Thanksgiving has been postponed in most US homes for four years. There IS a World Cup in Australia, plus Champions Tour and web.com Q-Schools in the next three weeks, but the Ballwasher is pretty clogged up with fallen leaves and season-ending debris, so only sporadic musings until January. Merry Christmas!

PD just tweeted that Pieters is guaranteed to be in Top 50. I think both Jaidee and Hend can pass this week in Hong Kong. Maybe Pieters is going to pass Kisner and Woodland in attrition.

Here is the list PD tweeted.

How does a player with a 3-4-2 record in the Ryder Cup deserve to have a Ryder Cup Captaincy.

It's about Captaincy, not playing. I imagine Bjorn will be a superb Captain, hope the Golf Digest & Golf Channel reports are true.

McGinley's playing record very similar but no complaints about his leadership.

Kwini, Super has been bloviating about Tiger not being Captain Material partly (Mostly?) because of his poor Ryder Cup record.

So what?

Hopefully Woods will be a Captain; I saw first-hand how the GOAT was comprehensively out-skippered at his home course. One trusts that Europe will similarly overcome the Woods aura and hand him the "L".

GPB wrote:Kwini, Super has been bloviating about Tiger not being Captain Material partly (Mostly?) because of his poor Ryder Cup record.

You have made the error of forgetting Super talks out his arse hole.

GPB wrote:How does a player with a 3-4-2 record in the Ryder Cup deserve to have a Ryder Cup Captaincy.

Europe doesn't pick captains based on who 'deserves' it.
TB is the obvious choice, the bookies even stopped taking bets on him weeks ago.
I don't know if your question is rhetoric or aimed at super, but who would you pick?

pedro wrote:
I don't know if your question is rhetoric or aimed at super, but who would you pick?

and cigars!

He's out of the game (on the ET) and out of touch. Plus he prefers Spanish wine over French.

kwinigolfer wrote:So what?

Hopefully Woods will be a Captain; I saw first-hand how the GOAT was comprehensively out-skippered at his home course. One trusts that Europe will similarly overcome the Woods aura and hand him the "L".

"out-skippered"??

lmao.

Again, Match Play over 18 holes. **it happens in match play. Bad bounce here, good bounce there. Out of form player here, player in form there. Rub of the Green and Good fortune is hard to beat over 18 holes.

GPB,
Jacklin had his guys all over the course, Nicklaus didn't realise he was beaten until he was beaten - trust me, the best example of captaincy I've seen in any sport. 'Course, Nicklaus had a pretty awful team to go to battle with.
Point is: Captaincy matters.

pedro wrote:He's out of the game (on the ET) and out of touch. Plus he prefers Spanish wine over French.

Out of the game? So was Jacklin, so was Gallacher, and you asked me who I would pick.

And I bet he would drink French Wine in Paris.

And BTW...Jimenez is OWGR ranked 231, Bjorn is ranked #467

McLaren wrote:

GPB wrote:Kwini, Super has been bloviating about Tiger not being Captain Material partly (Mostly?) because of his poor Ryder Cup record.

You have made the error of forgetting Super talks out his arse hole.

Probably make more sense if he did.

MontysMerkin wrote:

McLaren wrote:

GPB wrote:Kwini, Super has been bloviating about Tiger not being Captain Material partly (Mostly?) because of his poor Ryder Cup record.

You have made the error of forgetting Super talks out his arse hole.

Probably make more sense if he did.

I said it was ONE of the reasons not to give him it, however, no one has given me any reasons as to why he should be given it. I've given half a dozen different reasons why he shouldn't be given it.

I haven't heard ONE good reason why he should be given it.

GPB wrote:

pedro wrote:He's out of the game (on the ET) and out of touch. Plus he prefers Spanish wine over French.

Out of the game?  So was Jacklin, so was Gallacher, and you asked me who I would pick.

And I bet he would drink French Wine in Paris.

And BTW...Jimenez is OWGR ranked 231, Bjorn is ranked #467

TB is on the players committee and has been for ages, he's still playing on the ET (OK, not doing superbly), has been a VC numerous times and earns respect among his peers.
MAJ is in America now, and has never been as involved in the ET as TB. OK he ran a tourney in Spain at some point, but has always seemed more detached.
Jacklin and Gallacher, OK, but I still think it was different back then. Fewer double dippers, big names on the Euro side, less media/fan pressure etc.

Yes, MAJ would have been a popular choice, and I also like him, but I can't find too many reasons to pick him tbh.

super_realist wrote:

I haven't heard ONE good reason why he should be given it.

Here is one:

The US Players like and respect him,

Even if you don't.  And FTR neither do I. (Edit: I do respect his golf game)

and I don't think anyone will oppose him when and if he wants the job.  I am not entirely positive that he will ever want the job.  He might realize that he has to devote more time to it than he is willing to give.

and IMO, you haven't given reasons, you have giving opinions on why he shouldn't be on team.

Not sure what the Players Committee has to do with qualifications for the RC Captaincy. If it it anything like the PGATour PAC (Players Advisory Committee) its really not a qualification for RC Captaincy.

Jimenez has been vice captain several times so he matches Bjorn in that respect.

I pretty sure Jimenez has just as much respect from the Euro players as Bjorn.

Who is in the Pipeline for Euro RC Captaincy for future years.

2020 Westwood (Age 47 in 2020), Harrington (49), Stenson (44), Poulter (44) Lawrie (51)

2022 Westwood (49), Harrington (51), Stenson (46), Poulter (46) Lawrie (53)

2024 Westwood (51), Harrington (53), Stenson (48), Poulter (48) Lawrie (55) Sergio (44) Rose (44)

My guesses:

Paddy (2020)
Westy (2022)
Poulter (2024)

Web-com Q-School this week

As far as I can tell, Oregon Duck standout Aaron Wise is not in the field and he was exempted into the finals via his 4th place finish in the Mackenzie tour Money list.

Brock Mackenzie was 2nd on the list and he is in the field.

Not sure what Aaron Wise's grand plan. 71 Faux FEX points in 4 events played is not on pace to get STM on the PGATour.

GPB wrote:Robopz:

Gary Shackleford thinks that a big reason why players show up at the HWC is because of the rankings.  So it looks like they are concerned with minimal points.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/problems-rankings-after-small-field-events/

I saw that piece but disagree with your conclusion. I believe players are interested in the potential top end points available in that event by a factor of maybe 100x over minimal points.

kwinigolfer wrote:Don't fully agree with Part 1 of that. The fields were pretty good before owgr points were awarded. $1M is still a $1M.
But, if the points were somehow discounted, players would still be charged a full event for their divisor.
I can see perhaps the top dozen getting points; just the top 5 as GS suggested looks a non-starter, players penalized for showing up.

I think you have it about right on that. IMO this event either needs OWGR points to at least 2/3 or 3)4 of the field, or no points at all. But the world's changed since this event started getting OWGR points in the first place (which I believe was a counter to the NedBank starting to get them a few years earlier). IMO it could have potentially survived if it had never gotten points, just not with as good a field as it has now... Kinda like the Shark Shootout. But if you take the points away now, IMO it effectively kills it.

robopz wrote:

GPB wrote:Robopz:

Gary Shackleford thinks that a big reason why players show up at the HWC is because of the rankings.  So it looks like they are concerned with minimal points.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/problems-rankings-after-small-field-events/

I saw that piece but disagree with your conclusion. I believe players are interested in the potential top end points available in that event by a factor of maybe 100x over minimal points.

Assuming that is true, why wouldn't players be willing to play if they only award points to the Top half of the field.

In reply to a prior topic here... Ryder or President's Cup membership still has some "playing perks".

WGC Bridgestone still gives entry to the members of the most recent Ryder or President's Cup team, whichever was played the year before. (so this year it's Ryder Cuppers)

Career Builder (the Hope), Arnold Palmer Bay Hill, Heritage, Colonial & Quicken Loans gives entry to members of the most recent Ryder or President's Cup team, whichever was played the year before... AND PGA Tour members from the RC or PC the year before that.

GPB wrote:

robopz wrote:

GPB wrote:Robopz:

Gary Shackleford thinks that a big reason why players show up at the HWC is because of the rankings.  So it looks like they are concerned with minimal points.

http://www.golfchannel.com/media/problems-rankings-after-small-field-events/

I saw that piece but disagree with your conclusion. I believe players are interested in the potential top end points available in that event by a factor of maybe 100x over minimal points.

Assuming that is true, why wouldn't players be willing to play if they only award points to the Top half of the field.

I don't know for sure they wouldn't. I do believe the field wouldn't be affected at all if the WC got points through 3/4 of the field, just not sure about the half number. And by the way, the way I understood Shack's comments, he was saying if the field got NO points, then it wouldn't get this level of field (which I completely agree with), Williams added as an aside or maybe only top-5... but Shack didn't respond to that IIRC,

IMO the "issue" (I choose the word issue because I'm not sure it's a "problem" to the OWGR folks anywhere near that those on the outside make it out to be) will be self correcting over time anyway. I think the OWGR has clearly signaled they're less likely to be amenable to ranking new ultra small fields in the future.  But what I don't think will happen is for them to decide to summarily take OWGR ranking away from the World Challenge.  IMO if they do anything (which IMO is still unlikely), they might take points away from the last couple of finishers.  Bottom line is the PGAT participates in the TV contract on the WC... and they're not about to let the OWGR impede on the TV value of the event by pulling the ranking points and hurting the field. And no way the OWGR overrides a strong objection from the PGAT.

pedro wrote:He's out of the game (on the ET) and out of touch. Plus he prefers Spanish wine over French.

Only time I remember MAJ taking a leadership role in anything was over Keegan Bradley's caddie....

MAJ did subsidize the purse for at least one Euro Tournament in Spain.

And I bet he was the LEAD Supply man for Roja and Cigars as vice Captains.

============

So lets follow your logic about OWGR, Field, Ratings on the HWC.

Reduced (or NO) OWGR Rankings will not attract as good as a field which will affect the TV Ratings.

Huh? Its Tiger FREEKIN Woods for Crying out loud. As long as Tiger is there, the rest of the field does affect ratings. Or so I am told.

IIRC, it was getting a pretty good elite field before 2009. The 100k guaranteed payday should still be pretty good incentive.

De'Shampoo's new putting method is a little quirky.

Outstanding series of play-by-play interviews with 15 people in Golf Digest this month, a must read for anyone remotely interested in sport in general, Henrik & Phil at Troon in particular.

Can't recommend it strongly enough. But not yet on-line as far as I can see.

GPB wrote:So lets follow your logic about OWGR, Field, Ratings on the HWC.

Reduced (or NO) OWGR Rankings will not attract as good as a field which will affect the TV Ratings.

Huh?  Its Tiger FREEKIN Woods for Crying out loud.  As long as Tiger is there, the rest of the field does affect ratings.  Or so I am told.

IIRC, it was getting a pretty good elite field before 2009.  The 100k guaranteed payday should still be pretty good incentive.  

I don't know who's telling you what, and I really don't care... but you can always give something, yet it's a lot harder to take it away.   So sure, the WC was getting a decent field prior to getting OWGR points... and I still believe it would get and "OK" field without points today, albeit not near as good a field as it gets with the points.  But good enough fields to sustain it? I'm doubting it would.

IMO the landscape has changed out there since the days the WC wasn't giving points.  IMO the players are a LOT more focused on OWGR points than they used to be and as a group they're a lot more "worldly".  With all the other playing opportunities this time of year where they can still "likely" earn points, and likely get appearance fees elsewhere. That makes the WC is a lot tougher nut to sell.

McLaren wrote:De'Shampoo's new putting method is a little quirky.  

IMO the "Golfing Scientist" isn't that far from Science'ing himself right off the Tour. This could do it. He's already had a head start against weak fields on the PGAT playing 5 events, but he's only finished 2 of them, and stands 140 on the FE Cup list. If his putting is so bad he has to resort to this.... then he's not long for the big leagues methinks.

(and by the way.. I HOPE he can hang in. He's a character... and golf can use all the characters it can get IMO)

Ok I'll bite: he should leave science and join religion..

pedro wrote:Ok I'll bite: he should leave science and join religion..

Huh?

pedro,
Too late.
As BDC is quoted in this month's Golf Digest when talking about "Inspiration":
"I mark my Bridgestone B330-S with a cross and Bible verse for motivation. It also helps my aim."

It actually looks like he has the verse number stamped on his balls - can't see how that helps his aim.

Nuttier than . . . . . . . .

robopz wrote:

pedro wrote:Ok I'll bite: he should leave science and join religion..

Huh?

A reference to Spieth's much ridiculed remark last year.

robopz wrote:

GPB wrote:So lets follow your logic about OWGR, Field, Ratings on the HWC.

Reduced (or NO) OWGR Rankings will not attract as good as a field which will affect the TV Ratings.

Huh?  Its Tiger FREEKIN Woods for Crying out loud.  As long as Tiger is there, the rest of the field does affect ratings.  Or so I am told.

IIRC, it was getting a pretty good elite field before 2009.  The 100k guaranteed payday should still be pretty good incentive.  

I don't know who's telling you what, and I really don't care... but you can always give something, yet it's a lot harder to take it away.   So sure, the WC was getting a decent field prior to getting OWGR points... and I still believe it would get and "OK" field without points today, albeit not near as good a field as it gets with the points.  But good enough fields to sustain it?  I'm doubting it would.

IMO the landscape has changed out there since the days the WC wasn't giving points.  IMO the players are a LOT more focused on OWGR points than they used to be and as a group they're a lot more "worldly".  With all the other playing opportunities this time of year where they can still "likely" earn points, and likely get appearance fees elsewhere. That makes the WC is a lot tougher nut to sell.

Tougher Nut to sell?

With a 100K guaranteed and a possibility of a oool Million.

Which players in the field had the longest flights from US home bases? 2 hrs from Texas (for Spieth and Reed and Walker) Hideki? No idea where his US Homebase is located.

robo

Certainly doubt that his most recent putting stroke would pass peer review.

kwinigolfer wrote:pedro,
Too late.
As BDC is quoted in this month's Golf Digest when talking about "Inspiration":
"I mark my Bridgestone B330-S with a cross and Bible verse for motivation. It also helps my aim."

It actually looks like he has the verse number stamped on his balls - can't see how that helps his aim.

Nuttier than . . . . . . . .

OMG.. OMG... OMG.... burn him at the stake.... !!!!!

GPB wrote:

robopz wrote:

GPB wrote:So lets follow your logic about OWGR, Field, Ratings on the HWC.

Reduced (or NO) OWGR Rankings will not attract as good as a field which will affect the TV Ratings.

Huh?  Its Tiger FREEKIN Woods for Crying out loud.  As long as Tiger is there, the rest of the field does affect ratings.  Or so I am told.

IIRC, it was getting a pretty good elite field before 2009.  The 100k guaranteed payday should still be pretty good incentive.  

I don't know who's telling you what, and I really don't care... but you can always give something, yet it's a lot harder to take it away.   So sure, the WC was getting a decent field prior to getting OWGR points... and I still believe it would get and "OK" field without points today, albeit not near as good a field as it gets with the points.  But good enough fields to sustain it?  I'm doubting it would.

IMO the landscape has changed out there since the days the WC wasn't giving points.  IMO the players are a LOT more focused on OWGR points than they used to be and as a group they're a lot more "worldly".  With all the other playing opportunities this time of year where they can still "likely" earn points, and likely get appearance fees elsewhere. That makes the WC is a lot tougher nut to sell.

Tougher Nut to sell?  

With a 100K guaranteed and a possibility of a oool Million.

Which players in the field had the longest flights from US home bases?  2 hrs from Texas (for Spieth and Reed and Walker) Hideki?  No idea where his US Homebase is located.

The problem is you think like US.... and NOT like THEM. $100k is a lot of money to ALL of us for a short flight to the Bahamas... and a bit more than pocket change for a few of they guys in the field... but NOT many of them. Heck, Paulina probably won't roll over in bed for less than $200k.... so DJ's out....

But in all seriousness... IMO the points are a BIG part of the attraction for the event now.... BIGGER than the money. And I doubt there's many of these guys that couldn't add MORE than $100k in appearance fees somewhere else... or just sit it out and spend an extra holiday week with their families, or go play the Shark Shootout or something else.

robopz wrote:


OMG.. OMG... OMG.... burn him at the stake.... !!!!!

Much more interested in what you thought about the Phil/Henrik piece, robo . . . . . . . I thought it was pretty good stuff from a magazine that seems to have lost its way.

kwinigolfer wrote:
Much more interested in what you thought about the Phil/Henrik piece, robo . . . . . . . I thought it was pretty good stuff from a magazine that seems to have lost its way.

I have the issue but haven't had a chance to flip through it yet. But I love the headline... Best Dual Ever. It may not be THE best ever, but if it's not, there's not a lot of others above it over the last 20 years or so

Although Sergio & Phil must've come close.
Great read, you'll love it.

Thought BDC came across as a bit of a d1ck. As he did when I followed him at Hartford. Very unappealing.

Champions Tour Schedule is out now.... there was some talk early in the year about some possible contraction.... then later in the year about possible expansion... but it holds at the same 26 events as the last 3 years... http://www.pgatour.com/champions/news/2016/12/06/schedule-2017-pga-tour-champions.html

I saw that. Still going to the Drumpf DC course I see. Fits right in with most of them I suppose. Esteban Toledo might as well stay at home.
Looking forward to a couple of days at Salem CC at the end of June; it is without doubt the most difficult course for hackers that I've walked, almost entirely due to the green complexes. There'll be some cricket scores rung up by those who are unprepared.


Looks like a good four days' worth of weather for w.c Q-School.

"Drumpf"? Really? Still?

Why do I need to go to Netflix at rent "Mean Girls" when I can read these blogs.

I just don't understand the need to mock names with juvenile and childish monikers.

Seems a bit rich GPB to complain about nicknames when you write like you are in a bad American sitcom. Saying "really" as a singular word representing mock surprise is not really any better is it?

GPB wrote:"Drumpf"?  Really? Still?

Why do I need to go to Netflix at rent "Mean Girls" when I can read these blogs.

I just don't understand the need to mock names with juvenile and childish monikers.

Huh? Was his family name originally 'Drumpf', or not? In any case, Trump continues to act like a ridiculous man-child. Using arguably silly names when discussing him would seem to be the least of his issues.

pedro wrote:Ok I'll bite: he should leave science and join religion..

He studied physics at uni.

GPB wrote:"Drumpf"?  Really? Still?

Why do I need to go to Netflix at rent "Mean Girls" when I can read these blogs.

I just don't understand the need to mock names with juvenile and childish monikers.

Sadly this board doesn't have any hot/cool Asians.

You say the strangest things Mac, what does that mean.