Cuthbert again!

Butchered two tries and allowed two. Should have been 47-18. But how does such a poor player pull his team out of shape.

It's not his fault he keeps getting selected. And therein lies the problem. Chumps at the helm. He probably wishes they'd leave him alone!

I genuinely feel sorry for him. Imagine being so out of form and confidence but not wanting to let your country down. You'd never turn down a cap: you can't say no. But no matter how bad you are they still pick you! Rubbish!

He's crap, but it's not his fault he's being picked.
He's regressed badly since he first burst onto the international scene.

Griff wrote:I genuinely feel sorry for him. Imagine being so out of form and confidence but not wanting to let your country down. You'd never turn down a cap: you can't say no. But no matter how bad you are they still pick you! Rubbish!

Have to agree with all that, the problem is they tried the same thing for about 2 years too long with Priestland, these players need to find their form at a lower level. IMO the inclusion of Giles is too early and the same could be said for a number of other players, we need to be blooding the group between the two extremities, the main problem is the PLAN, not the players.

Griff wrote:I genuinely feel sorry for him. Imagine being so out of form and confidence but not wanting to let your country down. You'd never turn down a cap: you can't say no. But no matter how bad you are they still pick you! Rubbish!

I'm not a fan of his, and will be honest I've complained about him way too much (I was doing it before it was cool). But I read comments on face-ache today along the lines of 'my granny would do a better job than him, and she's been dead five years' etc. He is definitely out of form, and low on confidence. And realistically he should be nowhere near the Welsh training squad, let alone starting, but as you say we really should be directing our ire at those who keep selecting him as opposed to him himself. It's very much like when Priest was on his downward spiral, and it's the same people at the helm selecting them. It's almost like they are glad they have a ready built scapegoat in the team to take the flack that should be aimed at the management.

wayne wrote:Have to agree with all that, the problem is they tried the same thing for about 2 years too long with Priestland, these players need to find their form at a lower level. IMO the inclusion of Giles is too early and the same could be said for a number of other players, we need to be blooding the group between the two extremities, the main problem is the PLAN, not the players.

In the last World Cup Wales simply belted the ball away and let their defense absorb pressure and knock the opposition back. Those tactics simply do not work anymore. Teams are cutting us to pieces.

I think everyone in Wales basically agrees that Wales need to change Howley, and Mcbryde as coaches, and need to totally rebuild the team. Were going to be a total mess after the next World Cup.

Wayne, dammit you type faster than me

Todays showing was not Cuthberts fault. Its more to do with slow ball

wayne wrote:

Griff wrote:I genuinely feel sorry for him. Imagine being so out of form and confidence but not wanting to let your country down. You'd never turn down a cap: you can't say no. But no matter how bad you are they still pick you! Rubbish!

Have to agree with all that, the problem is they tried the same thing for about 2 years too long with Priestland, these players need to find their form at a lower level. IMO the inclusion of Giles is too early and the same could be said for a number of other players, we need to be blooding the group between the two extremities, the main problem is the PLAN, not the players.

Team Wales management reacting to team Wales chummy media perhaps?

Show some respect to a British and Irish Lion. Lol

Allty wrote:Todays showing was not Cuthberts fault.   Its more to do with slow ball

Where-as Japan were able to present quick ball to their scrum-half at every breakdown. I believe a lot of these issues need to be ironed out at regional level because Welsh rugby (2 teams at least) are off the pace.

The problem starts at the top and cascades down.

Lewis giving Gatland contract until 2019.

Davies (really hoped for better under him) giving the back up clowns contracts until 2019.

Allowing Gatland to go on Lions AGAIN.

Howley for constantly selecting out of form players, as has been mentioned it happened with Priestland.

There was more than one player on that pitch that deserves criticism not just Cuthbert but he, like Priestland before him gets the brunt of it.

You can't blame the guy for the coach picking him.

i actually think he's a good player.

All players have good form/bad form etc. The problem for Cuthbert is he's like the kid at the arcade who knew 1 special move in street fighter/mortal kombat etc. Very effect at the beginning but eventually you get found out.
He's never evolved as a player since he burst onto the scene and if anything due to injuries and perhaps a loss of confidence he can be easily read.

I still think that with the finish line in sight their are few better in the NH. Personally I put it down to coaching and his own professional outlook. He had all the talent aged 20 but since then how has he moved on? I mean come on even Jonny May has reduced his sideways running to every other time he gets his hands on the ball.

When he first burst onto the scene he was playing international 7s. I think ever since he's moved away from the 7s set up his skill set has become gradually worse. He perhaps needs to get back involved with that to get back to where he was.

The thing is that a lot of his mistakes lately involve knock ons. Should the coaches be coaching him how to catch a ball at this level? He just seems surprised but the ball half the time, or surprised by rugby itself! I remember him getting hit in the face by the ball from a pass not so long ago because he just wasn't on the same page as everyone else. Think he was looking at birds in the sky or something! As others have said though international rugby should be ideally where we pick the players playing the best rugby in that position in the country at the time. He's not playing that well for Blues so why we expect him to step up a level and do will in internationals is beyond me. Selecting out of form players to step up to an even higher level is just not fair on the players really. He must do some sh*t hot stuff in training!

Allty wrote:Todays showing was not Cuthberts fault.   Its more to do with slow ball

How does that affect basic catching and passing skills and the shocking ability under high ball ?

Cuthbert was worth anywhere between minus 5-14 points and usually is for most games he starts when you judge his 80 minute performance, while Anscombe was a -7. To say this doesn't affect the whole team is rubbish but overall yes it was a poor team performance, mostly by our backs. As others have alluded to the backs seem incapable of judging what's on and playing heads up rugby, it makes me wonder what they're doing every week in training.

uncle_nigel wrote:Cuthbert was worth anywhere between minus 5-14 points and usually is for most games he starts when you judge his 80 minute performance, while Anscombe was a -7. To say this doesn't affect the whole team is rubbish but overall yes it was a poor team performance, mostly by our backs. As others have alluded to the backs seem incapable of judging what's on and playing heads up rugby, it makes me wonder what they're doing every week in training.

Pumping iron!

uncle_nigel wrote:Cuthbert was worth anywhere between minus 5-14 points and usually is for most games he starts when you judge his 80 minute performance, while Anscombe was a -7. To say this doesn't affect the whole team is rubbish but overall yes it was a poor team performance, mostly by our backs. As others have alluded to the backs seem incapable of judging what's on and playing heads up rugby, it makes me wonder what they're doing every week in training.

Learning from all the mistakes - well thats what Howler keeps telling us.

[quote="Griff"][quote="uncle_nigel"]Cuthbert was worth anywhere between minus 5-14 points and usually is for most games he starts when you judge his 80 minute performance, while Anscombe was a -7. To say this doesn't affect the whole team is rubbish but overall yes it was a poor team performance, mostly by our backs. As others have alluded to the backs seem incapable of judging what's on and playing heads up rugby,[b] it makes me wonder what they're doing every week in training[/b]. [/quote]

Pumping iron![/quote]


... and getting beasted. Possibly one of the reasons they look so tired.

uncle_nigel wrote:

Allty wrote:Todays showing was not Cuthberts fault.   Its more to do with slow ball

Where-as Japan were able to present quick ball to their scrum-half at every breakdown. I believe a lot of these issues need to be ironed out at regional level because Welsh rugby (2 teams at least) are off the pace.

Also, slow ball or not, Australia (Japan too) showed just how far off the pace Wales are and their OH often had multiple options either side. Maybe Wales need to get up to speed and practice giving and receiving and dummying at full tilt coz at present i'm not so sure they do.

It's hard to not blame Cuthbert when Japan kicked the ball to his side of the field on purpose, and within seconds he's lost, he allows the ball to bounce, the japanese winger gathers and had he not gone into touch would have put us under real pressur, then in the exact replica scenario minutes later he allows the Japanese winger ghost past him, and is directly responsible for Williams taking the yellow card!

Then he drops a simple pass, under no pressure, clean through.

He chases a turnover kick, which is fumbled by the defender, but is incapable of collecting a simple bouncing ball.

If you watch Liam Williams and Jonathon Davies body language they are both lost at sea when Cuthbert is required to make a decision!

Saturday wasn't all his fault, but had Tom James, or Hallam Amos started on that wing we would've won by 14 points plus!

What I don't understand, is that with Cuthbert getting shown up time and time again defencively, how is Giles a risk whatsoever?!

I think that game could be the last time we see Cuthbert in a Welsh jersey.. ( )

.... unless he buys himself a supporters one that is..

The usual rabble on Scrum V plus Alfie actually muttered a lot of truths on Sunday - like most have been they were also extremely critical. Cuthbert was rightfully singled out. I'm not sure I agree with Anscombe being singled out because that one glaring error aside he did fairly well, but I do agree that he with a few others should have been subbed a lot sooner in order to attempt changing the flow of the game. I also disagree that our carriers were ineffective, they were effective but it was the phases after they made ground where the errors and lack of ideas came to the fore. Also, is anyone else fed up of people like Gatland, Alfie and Edwards coming out and publically saying Howley is a good coach? He really isn't lads!

They are all besties though aren't they ? Jobs for the boyos.

Anscombe was poor - offered very little and didn't boss the game. This meant that L Williams was forced to make decisions which is a problem because he's no where near good enough to play test rugby. With neither half back controlling anything Wales were more clueless than usual.

Bit slow to catch up I know, But how has Cuthbert been selected for this year 6 nations squad?

Yes. Funnily enough a site that I like via Facebook posted a super cut of Cuthbert's best tries to remind us that he wasn't always so bad. Some crackers in there. It's just that he's so low on confidence!

Rob Howley told Sam Warburton. No one is guaranteed a place in the Welsh team.

He ( Rob Howley ) forgot to say unless your name is Alex Cuthbert.

To be fair his defense was never great, but by Christ he knew how to score. He just seems to doubt every aspect of his game at the moment and I think it's unfair that they keep picking him.

carpet baboon wrote:To be fair his defense was never great, but by Christ he knew how to score. He just seems to doubt every aspect of his game at the moment and I think it's unfair that they keep picking him.

This has been my gripe too Carpet Baboon. While it's easy to be frustrated with Cuthbert, and I've been known to shout many expletives at the TV when he messes up, the real anger should be directed at the management for picking him when his form and confidence are so low. And also for not blooding others to see if they can do a job. The longer he's been off the 7s circuit (where he first made his name) the worse he's got. I'd be tempted to allow him a bit of 7s time to allow him to rediscover his mojo.

Some crackers here, especially the first one v SA:

I have every confidence this will be the last time he gets picked.

Until the next time.

Griff wrote:Some crackers here, especially the first one v SA:

this just illustrates the point perfectly, his finishing ability gone he has no other aspect of his game as a saving grace.

It's hard to dislike Cuthbert as it has been said he gets selected. It would be great to see his form return and that's all you can hope for the lad does not deserve ridicule all the time he must know himself. A fickle bunch us Welsh.

Griff wrote:Some crackers here, especially the first one v SA:

To be fair, in most those clips there wasnt much competition for him.. Ok, the first break against SA was good, but the tries against an England side going for a Grand Slam.. Be honest, no competition there was there..

I'm at work so I can't watch that - is it the Wales Online video?

It's from YouTube, LP. Not sure of it's origin. It was posted via the Rugby Onslaught page on Facebook.

To be honest, as with most 'super cuts' where by nature they pick out the best bits, they make the individual look perhaps much better than they are. There's a few on YouTube for Matthew Morgan, for example, and makes him look awesome while ignoring his defensive frailties and also ignoring all of the times when the good stuff didn't come off! Same for Cuthbert I suppose.

Okay. I was only asking because I saw Wales Online had posted a video of Cuthbert on Twitter this morning.

If all the clips are from years ago, then it's neither here nor there really. They can't select the Alex Cuthbert of 2013.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Okay. I was only asking because I saw Wales Online had posted a video of Cuthbert on Twitter this morning.

If all the clips are from years ago, then it's neither here nor there really. They can't select the Alex Cuthbert of 2013.

Yeah, true. But I think the point was that once upon a time he was quite good. It's that confidence to take people on that we'd like him to regain, then he might be a useful addition to the squad. As I posted previously, for me it was the skills he brought from 7s that made him such a good finisher. I.e. that turn of pace, finishing, beating a man one-on-one. But the longer he's been away from 7s the worse he's become. It's only natural I suppose (to lose skills over time when not used).

Griff, him being quite good was the novelty factor. It would all have happened in such a blur that he just went with the flow, pinned his ears back, and scored some really great tries when he first got capped.

However, now/the last few years have been like the difficult second, third, maybe even fourth album. He's having to actually think about being a rugby player, and that's a problem, because quite frankly his basic skills are, always have been, and in all likelihood always will be, that of a semi-pro of at best poor professional player.

I agree in that he's clearly not suited to the XVs game, when there are so many deficiencies in his game. I agree with others that the coaches should have done more to protect him at times.

He's had one notable game- I can't remember who it was against, but looked quite solid in defence, post-RWC I believe as well- since his best performance in a Welsh shirt, the second Test down in South Africa in 2014. I think the coaches have hoped and hoped that the player they saw that day is just waiting to burst open and realise his potential, rather than it being a case of the stars aligning and the Boks perhaps underestimating him as a threat.

I don't really know the answer. The money is in the XVs, he's not so young that he can have a period away and reasonably say that his main attributes- pace and acceleration- will still be there by the time he's worked on the other aspects of his game. I do think he should have gone to play in England though, for someone like Gloucester or Exeter, a club that would work on him, get him ready to the demands of weekly competition, and put some grit into him. They'd also not hesitate to drop him if he wasn't performing, but equally aren't so 'big' as clubs that they could afford to let him rot before shipping him out.

In any case, I never want to see his fake cry face when he drops the ball, has a look at the big screen, makes sure the camera is on him, then out come the crocodile tears, ever again. He's an easy target, but it seems like he's done nothing to improve this off the pitch, either on the training field, or out in public.

Steff Evans and North to start against Italy? Or is it Liam Williams and Halfpenny with North?

Speaking of North, I'm not too happy that he's seemingly guaranteed his place. When was he last at his best? It's almost as if Cuthbert's plight has taken the heat off him.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Speaking of North, I'm not too happy that he's seemingly guaranteed his place. When was he last at his best? It's almost as if Cuthbert's plight has taken the heat off him.

He's been playing well again this season. Doesn't get so much opportunity because we (Saints) don't really create space but he does seem to create something out of nothing often and looks sharp. The one criticism I'd have would be that he often doesn't seem force his involvement and can stand out on his wing a bit but I think he's most of the way back to his best.

He looked very good in the brief period he played down in NZ, a real threat. Not much to go on, but enough to realise that, if he's anywhere near his best best, he's Wales's best winger by a mile.

It's less his form that's a concern at the moment, because frankly there's no-one who really deserves to replace him, but rather his health that I'd be worried about.

Scottrf wrote:

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Speaking of North, I'm not too happy that he's seemingly guaranteed his place. When was he last at his best? It's almost as if Cuthbert's plight has taken the heat off him.

He's been playing well again this season. Doesn't get so much opportunity because we (Saints) don't really create space but he does seem to create something out of nothing often and looks sharp. The one criticism I'd have would be that he often doesn't seem force his involvement and can stand out on his wing a bit but I think he's most of the way back to his best.

Fair enough, thanks.