Ireland v England 6N 2017

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Post by mid_gen on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 6:08 pm

Is anyone else salivating at the prospect of this game already?

The two form teams in the NH, possibly the world right now drawn on the last game of the last weekend.

Obviously not taking any games before then for granted, but if it goes down to a titanic clash between these two teams it's going to be an absolute belter!

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Post by wolfball on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:47 pm

mid_gen wrote:Is anyone else salivating at the prospect of this game already?

The two form teams in the NH, possibly the world right now drawn on the last game of the last weekend.

Obviously not taking any games before then for granted, but if it goes down to a titanic clash between these two teams it's going to be an absolute belter!

Yes.... this match will be won in the tight 5 and half backs, as we are evens matched nearly every where else.

Front Row - Ireland
Second Row - England
Backrow - Evens
Half Backs - Ireland
Centres - Evens
Back Three - England

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:54 pm

I agree it will be tough too call.

And what with Italy beating South Africa today, it could well be a 3 way contest.

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Post by lostinwales on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 9:05 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I agree it will be tough too call.

And what with Italy beating South Africa today, it could well be a 3 way contest.

Italy may be improving but SA are not. They are not going to be bothering England and Ireland for a while yet

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Post by robbo277 on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 11:08 am

Lot of rugby to be played between now and then! You'd probably bet on it being the championship decider if forced today, but equally it could end up being a dead rubber.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 11:14 am

Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 11:14 am

Scotland got a good result yesterday...and the 6n is Wales world cup so its going to be a massive tournament!

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 11:16 am

uncle_nigel wrote:Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

Hahahahaha positivity at its best Wink
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Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:18 pm

mid_gen wrote:Is anyone else salivating at the prospect of this game already?

The two form teams in the NH, possibly the world right now drawn on the last game of the last weekend.

Obviously not taking any games before then for granted, but if it goes down to a titanic clash between these two teams it's going to be an absolute belter!

No definitely not. Ireland have a fraction of the players available to England and Joe has already had a look at most of them, so let's see who's fit on St Patrick's day before getting too excited.
England on the other hand should seriously consider getting early discount on the '2017 Slam Winners' Tee shirts as it's their's to lose.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 10:33 pm

England on the other hand should seriously consider getting early discount on the '2017 Slam Winners' Tee shirts as it's their's to lose.


I know what you mean. But England will not go into the 6ns, with the mind set ( THE GRAND SLAM IS OURS )

Eddie Jones will take care of that.

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Post by lostinwales on Sun 20 Nov 2016, 11:02 pm

Frightening thing is that unless Oz raise their game (and lets face it they will be motivated..) or something really unexpected happens in the 6N we could be going into the Ireland game on a 17 game winning streak.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 10:01 am

lostinwales wrote:Frightening thing is that unless Oz raise their game (and lets face it they will be motivated..) or something really unexpected happens in the 6N we could be going into the Ireland game on a 17 game winning streak.

Shocked

I'm curious, but does that equal or better 'that' previous teams record under Sir Clive?

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 10:11 am

uncle_nigel wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Frightening thing is that unless Oz raise their game (and lets face it they will be motivated..) or something really unexpected happens in the 6N we could be going into the Ireland game on a 17 game winning streak.

Shocked

I'm curious, but does that equal or better 'that' previous teams record under Sir Clive?

Numbers wise SCW managed 12 (so a quick search says) So we should beat that as long as we can carry on where we left off in the summer against Australia.

Quality wise the SCW record is (currently) superior. All you need to keep up a winning streak is a little luck and to be just a tiny bit better than the opposition. The current England team is in a great place and should continue to improve for a while, but a lot of the traditional opposition are not doing well at all.

At this particular moment the only teams I'd feel concerned facing are NZ, Australia and Ireland. The last two are very dangerous but we have managed them pretty well (certainly since the RWC). And NZ are NZ. Things can of course change though...

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 10:16 am

lostinwales wrote:Frightening thing is that unless Oz raise their game (and lets face it they will be motivated..) or something really unexpected happens in the 6N we could be going into the Ireland game on a 17 game winning streak.

Dont underrestimate Aus, they dont need to raise their game much. England should be favourites this weekend but they came a win over a much improved France.

yes France...another " dark horse" for teh 6 nations.
Is there aever a year this comeptiton isnt full of uncertainty and juicy match ups? England might be the stand out team currently but both Irleand and France are capable of getting a consitent run toegther and taking the title. Scotland and Italy have shown they can compete with anyone on their day. Wales....well they cant get any worse and actually could end up ranked 4 in the world next week.

People keep want8ing to tinker with the 6 nations, I have no idea why. Its always a fasnication for me...full of games of meaning and tight match ups. Even though the quality can disapoint at times, and there can be some one sided games on the day theres always some drama around the tournament as a whole and the intense rivalries.

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 10:32 am

Gooseberry wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Frightening thing is that unless Oz raise their game (and lets face it they will be motivated..) or something really unexpected happens in the 6N we could be going into the Ireland game on a 17 game winning streak.

Dont underrestimate Aus, they dont need to raise their game much. England should be favourites this weekend but they came a win over a much improved France.

yes France...another " dark horse" for teh 6 nations.
Is there aever a year this comeptiton isnt full of uncertainty and juicy match ups? England might be the stand out team currently but both Irleand and France are capable of getting a consitent run toegther and taking the title. Scotland and Italy have shown they can compete with anyone on their day. Wales....well they cant get any worse and actually could end up ranked 4 in the world next week.

People keep want8ing to tinker with the 6 nations, I have no idea why. Its always a fasnication for me...full of games of meaning and tight match ups. Even though the quality can disapoint at times, and there can be some one sided games on the day theres always some drama around the tournament as a whole and the intense rivalries.

Oh absolutely. But France are pretty rubbish where they should be one of the top teams. Scotland haven't beaten England for a long time and Italy never. Wales are in a rubbish place and things will get worse before they get better. The 6N are still a few months away, but its one of those times where the gap seems too big for one of those team to pull out the kind of special performance they'd need to beat England.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 10:45 am

The Great Aukster wrote:
No definitely not. Ireland have a fraction of the players available to England and Joe has already had a look at most of them, so let's see who's fit on St Patrick's day before getting too excited.
England on the other hand should seriously consider getting early discount on the '2017 Slam Winners' Tee shirts as it's their's to lose.

I thought England ordered those t-shirts a couple of years at a time to save a few quid

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Post by Cumbrian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 10:55 am

All this talk of winning streaks is putting me on edge, pack it in! I worry the Australia game might be a step too far for us this year. I can't explain it other than we've had 'too much' success and I keep waiting for it to end. The Aussies will be desperate to beat England, they will have had a gut full of our crowing and will want to regain some pride. I can see their players being seriously pumped for it, will England? Fiji shows what happens when England switch off. We aren't like New Zealand, winning makes us a bit soft and complacent, that is why every now and again we get a nasty shock/beating.

I hope I am wrong (will be ecstatic if I am) but to go a whole year without being beaten seems too much to ask.
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Post by marty2086 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:00 am

Cumbrian wrote:All this talk of winning streaks is putting me on edge, pack it in!  I worry the Australia game might be a step too far for us this year. I can't explain it other than we've had 'too much' success and I keep waiting for it to end.  The Aussies will be desperate to beat England, they will have had a gut full of our crowing and will want to regain some pride.  I can see their players being seriously pumped for it, will England?  Fiji shows what happens when England switch off. We aren't like New Zealand, winning makes us a bit soft and complacent, that is why every now and again we get a nasty shock/beating.

I hope I am wrong (will be ecstatic if I am) but to go a whole year without being beaten seems too much to ask.

Imagine how much more pissed off they will be after Ireland have beaten them Whistle

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Post by Cumbrian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:02 am

That did run into my thinking too, reckon you have a good chance of beating them too. Somebody has got to mind you, I don't want them taking a Grand Slam back down under.
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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:09 am

Cumbrian wrote: We aren't like New Zealand, winning makes us a bit soft and complacent, that is why every now and again we get a nasty shock/beating.

So what happened on Soldier Field?

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:10 am

marty2086 wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:
No definitely not. Ireland have a fraction of the players available to England and Joe has already had a look at most of them, so let's see who's fit on St Patrick's day before getting too excited.
England on the other hand should seriously consider getting early discount on the '2017 Slam Winners' Tee shirts as it's their's to lose.

I thought England ordered those t-shirts a couple of years at a time to save a few quid

Annoyingly they had to send them back and get them changed to "Retainers"

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:12 am

uncle_nigel wrote:Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

Ireland always do well in Cardiff and we play England at home. Championship will be Irelands.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:17 am

Couldn't call it myself. England have Wales and Ireland away so the harder of the 2 set of fixtures. Pretty confident at present we could do back to back but no surprise if we didn't.

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Post by munkian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:20 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

Ireland always do well in Cardiff and we play England at home. Championship will be Irelands.

Beat you last time you played us in Cardiff during 6 Nations, just sayin


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Post by marty2086 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:24 am

munkian wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

Ireland always do well in Cardiff and we play England at home. Championship will be Irelands.

Beat you last time you played us in Cardiff during 6 Nations, just sayin



That was only for dramatic purposes, we let you win Whistle

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Post by munkian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:26 am

marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

Ireland always do well in Cardiff and we play England at home. Championship will be Irelands.

Beat you last time you played us in Cardiff during 6 Nations, just sayin



That was only for dramatic purposes, we let you win Whistle

Would be nice if you could beat England for once, all this relying on us to do it is taking its toll kiss
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Post by marty2086 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:29 am

munkian wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

Ireland always do well in Cardiff and we play England at home. Championship will be Irelands.

Beat you last time you played us in Cardiff during 6 Nations, just sayin



That was only for dramatic purposes, we let you win Whistle

Would be nice if you could beat England for once, all this relying on us to do it is taking its toll kiss

We beat them last year, just saying Very Happy

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Post by munkian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:29 am

marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
munkian wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:Wales play them both at home, the championship is in our hands...

Ireland always do well in Cardiff and we play England at home. Championship will be Irelands.

Beat you last time you played us in Cardiff during 6 Nations, just sayin



That was only for dramatic purposes, we let you win Whistle

Would be nice if you could beat England for once, all this relying on us to do it is taking its toll kiss

We beat them last year, just saying Very Happy

Doh Very Happy
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Post by marty2086 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:31 am

It was the first time in 4 years though

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:32 am

We beat them the last time we played them in Dublin and will beat them again this year.

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Post by marty2086 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:33 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:We beat them the last time we played them in Dublin and will beat them again this year.

Fingers Crossed

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Post by Cumbrian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:38 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Cumbrian wrote: We aren't like New Zealand, winning makes us a bit soft and complacent, that is why every now and again we get a nasty shock/beating.

So what happened on Soldier Field?

New Zealand got a small blip in their win/loss balance? Every team is going to lose occasionally, but the All Black consistency is frightening, they are relentless (something like) 80-90% of the time. They ended one record run of victories, you'd bet on them going on another. It is something England should aspire to.
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Post by Cumbrian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:42 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:We beat them the last time we played them in Dublin and will beat them again this year .

I guarantee you won't. *To the semantics mobile! *
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Post by beshocked on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 11:43 am

can't say this is a game that really excites me. The 2015 game IMO was dire.

Just a lot of Ireland using their gaelic football skills to brutal effect and England having little control from 10.

Could be more of the same. Not a game I am looking forward to.

England need to be able to counter the garryowen and the Irish choke tackle.

Ireland were predictable but effective.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:04 pm

Laugh

The Garryowen and the Choke against your Invincibles, with Warrior God, and Thor's Bigger Brother, Itoje at the front; with the skulls of all he has slain to date around his neck.

Men and boys.  Men and boys.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:12 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:We beat them the last time we played them in Dublin and will beat them again this year .

I guarantee you won't.  *To the semantics mobile! *

laughing You won a fortune there, Cumbrian OK

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:14 pm

SecretFly wrote:Laugh

The Garryowen and the Choke against your Invincibles, with Warrior God, and Thor's Bigger Brother, Itoje at the front; with the skulls of all he has slain to date around his neck.

Men and boys.  Men and boys.

On a slightly more serious note you will have to work out how to deal with Billy. Its not that often that one guy dominates a game the way he did last year.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:21 pm

We had a lot of work recently trying to deal with a team of Billys, lost.

Thank God there is a break now after the Australian game to recoup and think of all those things that you might be thinking about come the 6N. Let's see what players we all have by that time. Injury can come at the most inopportune time, as we found out at the weekend.


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Post by beshocked on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:Laugh

The Garryowen and the Choke against your Invincibles, with Warrior God, and Thor's Bigger Brother, Itoje at the front; with the skulls of all he has slain to date around his neck.

Men and boys.  Men and boys.

We'll see but there is no doubt it's going to be tough regardless of the form coming into the game. Ireland has not been a happy hunting ground for England.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:49 pm

beshocked wrote:can't say this is a game that really excites me. The 2015 game IMO was dire.

Just a lot of Ireland using their gaelic football skills to brutal effect and England having little control from 10.

Could be more of the same. Not a game I am looking forward to.

England need to be able to counter the garryowen and the Irish choke tackle.

Ireland were predictable but effective.

Ireland were intentionally trying to move England's fat pack around the park a lot to wear them out.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:51 pm

Well if that was the tactic it worked. I wouldn't say poor restarts by England helped. Ireland were just more savvy. If I were Ireland I wouldn't change a tactic that worked last time.

There is no guarantee England have an answer.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 12:55 pm

Or we could charge in for a good few early tries and then try to keep together a high energy defensive game into the second half?

It will depend on the players available at the time, and the form they are in.  But there is no 'blueprint' that the Irish have to follow.  They hardly kicked anything at the weekend - and that was welcome as it would have been exceptionally dangerous against the ABs in that mood.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 1:04 pm

Cumbrian wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Cumbrian wrote: We aren't like New Zealand, winning makes us a bit soft and complacent, that is why every now and again we get a nasty shock/beating.

So what happened on Soldier Field?

New Zealand got a small blip in their win/loss balance?  Every team is going to lose occasionally, but the All Black consistency is frightening, they are relentless (something like) 80-90% of the time. They ended one record run of victories, you'd bet on them going on another.  It is something England should aspire to.  

So it wasnt complacency and a nasty shock/beating?

They wer einfact a full strength and took the game at 100% intenstity which explains why they can back a few weeks later and comprehensively beat the same opposition.

Im not denying that sooner or later teh wheels will come off, just its also happens to New Zealnd. Not as often because they are more better all the time. Its very are England get a genuinely succesful side and a run like this...its only the second time its ever happened. Which is also I think why we are allowed to get a little bit excited about the team. Even if they arent as good as NZ (which they arent) its still the best we have seen england for over a decade.

The run is of course just a nice stat, and yes take each game as it comes etc. I certainly wouldnt take the 6 nations as a pushover or forgone conclusion, but regardless of how the remaining AIs go England will go with high expectations on them. Which actually to me is where England have tended to come unstuck, rather than through compacency. You dont see them losing to Argentina in a pointless AI (fingers crossed!) ...you see them blowing Grand Slam games by ridiculous margins and letting Wales steal the title. You seem them muffing up their pool games in a home world cup. Important competitive games they wouldve been fully switched on for, not complacency.

New Zealand go off for a fun friendly and a trip to Disneyland, and get roll over for Ireland. Thats complacency.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 1:11 pm

Secretfly it's how I would target England.

Need to double tackle Billy, hold him up, force the turnover. If you can stop the momentum of one of England's key ball carriers it helps a lot.

Send up the garryowens, pressure the backs, especially Ford if he starts.

I would look to win the territory battle first and foremost.

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Post by Gooseberry on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 1:17 pm

Might it not depend a biit on who England select though BS? If they go out with 3 fly halves on the field plus a part time fullback and a kicking 9 then trying to engage them in a ping pong battle and potentially giving Bill V space to run at them from might turn out to be A Bad Idea.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 1:23 pm

Nah, shocked .... I think Eddie will be planning for an 'aerial' and Joe will know that Eddie will be planning for one.

So it'll be a double or triple bluff gameplan from both coaches.

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Ireland v England 6N 2017 Empty Re: Ireland v England 6N 2017

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 1:41 pm

To be honest I think they will both be fixated on the positioning of the red carpet to see who can pee the side media off the most

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Ireland v England 6N 2017 Empty Re: Ireland v England 6N 2017

Post by Cumbrian on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 3:19 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
Cumbrian wrote: We aren't like New Zealand, winning makes us a bit soft and complacent, that is why every now and again we get a nasty shock/beating.

So what happened on Soldier Field?

New Zealand got a small blip in their win/loss balance?  Every team is going to lose occasionally, but the All Black consistency is frightening, they are relentless (something like) 80-90% of the time. They ended one record run of victories, you'd bet on them going on another.  It is something England should aspire to.  

So it wasnt complacency and a nasty shock/beating?

They wer einfact a full strength and took the game at 100% intenstity which explains why they can back a few weeks later and comprehensively beat the same opposition.

Im not denying that sooner or later teh wheels will come off, just its also happens to New Zealnd. Not as often because they are more better all the time. Its very are England get a genuinely succesful side and a run like this...its only the second time its ever happened. Which is also I think why we are allowed to get a little bit excited about the team. Even if they arent as good as NZ (which they arent) its still the best we have seen england for over a decade.

The run is of course just a nice stat, and yes take each game as it comes etc. I certainly wouldnt take the 6 nations as a pushover or forgone conclusion, but regardless of how the remaining AIs go England will go with high expectations on them. Which actually to me is where England have tended to come unstuck, rather than through compacency. You dont see them losing to Argentina in a pointless AI (fingers crossed!) ...you see them blowing Grand Slam games by ridiculous margins and letting Wales steal the title. You seem them muffing up their pool games in a home world cup. Important competitive games they wouldve been fully switched on for, not complacency.

New Zealand go off for a fun friendly and a trip to Disneyland, and get roll over for Ireland. Thats complacency.

It is an interesting question, is it complacency the one time you lose when you always previously win? I don't know, perhaps the Soldier field game was an example of this, I can certainly see what you are saying though.

My issue is this talk of records, I don't (for want of a better word) to jinx it. I just have a foreboding feeling about the Australian game and I am going to stink up the place about it!

Eddie does seem to be giving them a harder edge, let's hope the mentally fragile games are behind them...
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