Welsh team to face SA

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Post by Gwlad on Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:25 am

All Welsh fans know we are hostages of the coaches until 2019. The way in which the WRU have allowed Gatland yet another sabbatical and installed an incompetent like Howley as caretaker is beyond belief. Wales have been treading water for 3 years and despite their showings at the last two RWC it is clear they are now actually falling apart tactically and with basic skills. But they are still learning at every turn, ask Howley. My question is when will they stop learning and start performing?

What we need next week is to be soundly beaten by a poor SA. A RWC Lancaster moment, because although no English fan enjoyed that look at where they are now 1 year on. I don't want that to happen of course, but it may be what is required. A win will result in a 3/4 success for Howley and his troop of monkeys. A successful autumn, 3 x W. In truth it has been a catastrophe.

You know SA will raise their game next week. We know in Howley Wales don't have a coach capable of mapping out a game plan to beat them; a win will be down to the players sneaking it as was the case this week when all that was required was to pick and drive route 1 and create the spaces out wide whereas Wales repeatedly tried to go wide too early. SA will pin us back and attack our set piece.

Wales have the personnel no doubt and I hope to see Faletau return on the bench at least. But what they don't have is a clue about what to do behind the breakdown. How to distribute players in attack and what angles of attack they should use. How to read the defense and respond; they insisted on attacking around the breakdown v Jpaan who loaded their line. Their is no instinct to play what is in front of them. It is not instinctive because it flies in the face of everything in their DNA.

Can we win? Of course and we should with SA falling apart perhaps more than we are, but no side does the SH hoodoo dance like we do and it is so deeply entrenched in that DNA that i expect us to lose marginally again. I hear there are rumblings in the camp, may be the players will let that happen so that Howley finally gets his marching orders. He is done post RWC 2019 for sure.

Some sacred cows need to be sacrificed and other cows just need shooting.

Gethin -  Big game player and if fit he plays that simple.
Baldwin - superb carrying v japan, knew to go straight and did so repeatedly. Shame no one else read it.
Francis - excellent v Argentina, offers much more than Lee in the loose
AWJ - no explanations required - Capt.
Davies - Charteris offers nothing outside the line out but has a part to play in the final 3rd.
Warburton - Lydiate is dead to me now. Warburton can do the job and should.
Tipuric - I want to see some of his club form for Wales, he's only really impressed me once v Eng 2013 but i still think he needs to be our 7. He needs to lurk out wide and let Gethin and Warburton deal with the breakdown.
Moriarty - what a find, dynamic runner and excellent defender. Excellent stand in for Faletau.

Davis - Oh how we miss Webb, but Davis is equally sparky and is really the only choice.
Biggar - Sam was outstanding in his Japanese cameo but Biggar should at least start.
North - I don't really know why he's been anonymous for ages. Lacks aggression and is defensively suspect. Its him or Cuthbert and the latter is one of the cows that need shooting. I'd like to see Giles but that won't happen.
Roberts- because we need to win and the team has spent so long playing with this tactic that to change this week would be a mistake. But use him as a decoy and ask him to pass. Part of me hopes to see Scott back in for his footballing skills, pace and passing. Basic skills you expect in a centre and which Roberts does not possess.
JD2 - another who is creaking but the best option we have.
Half- Not a natural winger but in space he has some pace although tends to always end up on his face. Is excellent in defense and has the boot.
Liam - along with Faletau our only truly world class player.

bench
Smith, Owens, Lee, Charteris, Faletau, Lloyd, Davies, Williams

Others like Anscombe and Cuthbert are perhaps not up to this level.

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Post by exile jack on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:46 am

Gwlad,i think SA are going to come to us like men demented next week.My problems with the players you select are JD2(not firing),GDavies(slow,lack of awareness);Liam W(needs to realise he's part of a team);Lee(needs some of Gethin's attitude);Charteris(off-form and needs to get angry);Gangnam Dan(slow,predictable,doesn't play flat,poor tactical kicking).I think Ball and Baker deserve a chance.Lloyd W,Cuthbert and Anscombe should be nowhere near the Vale.

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Post by Seagultaf on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:55 am

For me to start: Liam, Halfpenny, JD2, Scott, North, Biggar, Davies, Smith, Owen, Lee, Charteris, AWJ, Moriarty, King, Warbs. Bench, Gethin, Baldwin, Francis, Bradley, Faletau, Tomos Williams, Sam, Roberts.

I have gone for Scott to provide some guile in the three quarters. The best two scrummaging props, I thought Baldwin was symtomatic of Wales problems against Japan, why was he constantly at first reciever and then just running into contact? Owen is also more dynamic around the field. Charteris because of his lineout work and a big hard abrasive backrow. On the bench I would not have Lloyd anywhere near a Welsh jersey so Tomos is in the squad and gets my vote for a place on the bench together with some big impact players to shake it up in the second half.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Mon Nov 21, 2016 8:59 am

Gwalad.

With regards to the team for the SA game. Does it really matter who isin the team.

I mean if ITALY can beat SA. Then surely Wales can.

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Post by irnbrew on Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:16 am

Seagultaf a big abrasive back row King really maybe some things he is abrasive is not one of them

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Post by Gwlad on Mon Nov 21, 2016 1:38 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Gwalad.

With regards to the team for the SA game. Does it really matter who isin the team.

I mean if ITALY can beat SA. Then surely Wales can.

Muppet

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:50 pm

I really expect us to lose this one, forget the Italy result our performances have been that bad that nothing convinces me we will win.

If we do then fair play but I just can't see it at the moment but it's ok we'll learn from the defeat for our next run of defeats under this clown of a coach.
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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:18 pm

Yes I can see Howley reverting to Type 1 (the other type being 1.5) because he's out of ideas and no doubt certain players "played their way back in against the mighty Japan" or "did well on the training paddock during the week" and finally "you need physicality against the Springboks"... I could go on. I'd put out the same team as we did for Argentina or as close to that as possible. Sam Davies, Jamie Roberts, Ken Owens and Dan Lydiate on the bench - that way we're actually in danger of having a decent bench for the first time in years.


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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:18 pm

Or don't have Lydiate in the squad at all, bring back Faletau?

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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon Nov 21, 2016 10:20 pm

Gwlad wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Gwalad.

With regards to the team for the SA game. Does it really matter who isin the team.

I mean if ITALY can beat SA. Then surely Wales can.

Muppet

Gwlad is this guy a troll? He is a posting a lot of strange comments on articles about Wales?

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue Nov 22, 2016 12:04 am

uncle_nigel wrote:Or don't have Lydiate in the squad at all, bring back Faletau?

That would be my choice, think it may be a big ask to start him and also it would be worth giving Warburton Moriarty Tipuric another crack as combination. Then you could bring Faletau off the bench.
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Post by Gwlad on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:07 am

uncle_nigel wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Gwalad.

With regards to the team for the SA game. Does it really matter who isin the team.

I mean if ITALY can beat SA. Then surely Wales can.

Muppet

Gwlad is this guy a troll? He is a posting a lot of strange comments on articles about Wales?

Sadly 606v2 does not regard doing that on Welsh threads as trolling.

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Post by Gwlad on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:07 am

bedfordwelsh wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:Or don't have Lydiate in the squad at all, bring back Faletau?

That would be my choice, think it may be a big ask to start him and also it would be worth giving Warburton Moriarty Tipuric another crack as combination.  Then you could bring Faletau off the bench.

whats your 23 beds?

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Post by Shifty on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:46 am

Every time I think of the Wales team Vs South Africa, I put my head in my hands and despair.
Most of our players are useless, so few deserve to be picked, yet we have few if any options because the reserves are even worse! Cry
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Post by Cardiff Dave on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:01 am

Shifty wrote:Every time I think of the Wales team Vs South Africa, I put my head in my hands and despair.  
Most of our players are useless, so few deserve to be picked, yet we have few if any options because the reserves are even worse!  Cry

Ewe don't believe that shewerly?

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Post by Fanster on Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:23 am

I actually cheered Japan on in the last 10 minutes, hoping they could take the game and put pressure on Howleys position, although we couldve lost by 40 points against Japan and the players woud be the problem not the coach!

There are plenty of players here, but when form and fitness is ignored, when match gametime at regional level is ignored, they come into the international window out of tune, which we've seen in Baldwin, Warburton, Lydiate, Davies, Williams, Cuthbert...

Then 6 changes, followed by 10 changes adds to the dissorganization, as do irratic use of the bench, and players starting, dropping out of the squad, then starting again!

There is no consistency in selection policy, theres no consistency in starting strategy, or bench usage, so it isn't difficult to see why there is a lack of consistent performances.

I suspect plenty more changes, with Howley reverting to type...

Jenkins
Owens
Lee
AWJ
Charteris
Warburton
Tipuric
Falatau (Rushed in)
Davies
Biggar
North
Roberts
Davies
Williams
Halfpenny

But in reality it really doens't matter, because players are being mis treated, selection is irratic, noone knows what substitution strategy is, and only about half of the squad (Ironically those playing outside of Wales) have enough gametime to play international rugby!

I think SA will beat us, despite being the worst SA team I have ever seen.

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Post by Gwlad on Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:22 pm

If SA win this weekend, without even Etzebeth, I guarantee Howley is gone by the Lions tour.

In any case with this set up Wales will be lucky to come 4th in the 6 Nations. Dire times ahead.


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Post by exile jack on Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:51 pm

I hope the Great Clown does not pick cannonpuff Ken,suet Lee,Charteris,Faletau,Gangnam Dan,and JD2.I'd prefer Baldwin,Francis,Ball,Moriarty,Sam D,Scott W.I'd also pick Roberts against those SA centres.Faletau looked way off the pace for Bath against Bristol on Friday night.it'll never happen but AWJ should be Captain.

I read somewhere yesterday that Howley is still in the frame for the Lions tour.God help them.Stupidity piled on absurdity.

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Post by munkian on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:18 pm

So, BBBD has been sent back to the ospreys injured. I'd have AWJ and Hill again to be honest, Charteris is off form and hill has done well so far, I'd reward him with another start.

I'd still have Biggar/Davies as starting half backs - is there another 9 in the squad apart from Bryn jnr ? The lad is awful.

Sam, Tips and Moriarty for me. Lydiate is a dead weight atm.

North and Halfpence on wings, Sanjay at FB.

Sam Davies and Giles on the bench.

Seems Etzebeth is injured, thats a big loss for SA.
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Post by Gooseberry on Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:53 pm

exile jack wrote:

I read somewhere yesterday that Howley is still in the frame for the Lions tour.God help them.Stupidity piled on absurdity.

Well hes got more chance than most of the otehr welsh scrum halves Whistle

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Post by lostinwales on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:51 pm

munkian wrote:So, BBBD has been sent back to the ospreys injured. I'd have AWJ and Hill again to be honest, Charteris is off form and hill has done well so far, I'd reward him with another start.

I'd still have Biggar/Davies as starting half backs - is there another 9 in the squad apart from Bryn jnr ? The lad is awful.

Sam, Tips and Moriarty for me. Lydiate is a dead weight atm.

North and Halfpence on wings, Sanjay at FB.

Sam Davies and Giles on the bench.

Seems Etzebeth is injured, thats a big loss for SA.

He tried tackling Billy V front on and lost.... (Being serious he caught Billy's shoulder in his face and went straight down.)

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Post by munkian on Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:52 pm

That's going to leave a mark.
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Post by Gwlad on Wed Nov 23, 2016 6:14 am

while i think this is the right stage for Sam Davies it can't be for Giles. He should have been started v Japan but clearly the camp has no real confidence as Giles was exactly what was needed to change the game v Japan but Howley is so scared of a loss he kept that idiot Cuffbert on.

As i said before, Edwards handling of the PC tells you everything. They are currently 2/3 this autumn and the W is everything. Win saturday and the perception of failure is there but has no substance in the WRU; 3/4 wins in the Autumn. Lose and I'll be gutted but pleased that there is no hiding it anymore. We are truly regressing and the results prove it.

Its hard to wish a side lose for the bigger picture but in this case I'd make an exception.

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Post by wayne on Wed Nov 23, 2016 9:17 am

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Dan Biggar is not only left out of the team, but out of the squad altogether after the pronouncement this afternoon by World Rugby, over the comments he has made to referees in the past year. Perhaps this will be the kick up the harris he needs to calm down when things go against him.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Wed Nov 23, 2016 11:18 pm

wayne wrote:I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Dan Biggar is not only left out of the team, but out of the squad altogether after the pronouncement this afternoon by World Rugby, over the comments he has made to referees in the past year. Perhaps this will be the kick up the harris he needs to calm down when things go against him.

Weren't the comments directed at SH referees justified? Whistle

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:25 am

Gwlad wrote:It's hard to wish a side lose for the bigger picture but in this case I'd make an exception.

I'd sad that it's come to this, but I feel the same. The problems have been apparent for a few seasons now, but they can't be ignored much longer.

We're in danger of being left behind by other Test sides unless the union takes action. It'll cost them deep in the pocket if they do, thanks to Roger's brilliant decision to give all the coaches new contracts last summer, but the alternative is further regression, I'm afraid.

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Post by munkian on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:30 am

Weren't McBryde's and Howler's extended post Rog ?
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:58 am

Okay, fair enough.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Thu Nov 24, 2016 1:25 am

I think Gatland might have had a say in that though. I would rather have kept Gatland and got shot of the other 3 but I can't see him ever doing that.

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Post by Gwlad on Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:08 am

So the word si that we are going to see the Argentina side v SA. Plus Faletau on the bench. Perosnally i'd pick Baldwin and Francis up front. Baldwin was very good v Japan and Ken seems to have batter game as a sub and Francis has more in the loose than Lee.

This is a must lose game for me…….that way there is no more hiding behind the W.

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Post by Cardiff Dave on Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:30 am

Gwlad wrote:So the word si that we are going to see the Argentina side v SA. Plus Faletau on the bench. Perosnally i'd pick Baldwin and Francis up front. Baldwin was very good v Japan and Ken seems to have batter game as a sub and Francis has more in the loose than Lee.

This is a must lose game for me…….that way there is no more hiding behind the W.

They're a Southern hemisphere team though mun, so losing would be ok and winning would be supercalifragilystwyth, open top bus type stuff.
Either way, I doubt the result would hasten any changes upstairs.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:34 pm

Gwlad wrote:So the word si that we are going to see the Argentina side v SA. Plus Faletau on the bench. Perosnally i'd pick Baldwin and Francis up front. Baldwin was very good v Japan and Ken seems to have batter game as a sub and Francis has more in the loose than Lee.

This is a must lose game for me…….that way there is no more hiding behind the W.

Yes I agree completely with your selections.

If we somehow manage a W there's no hiding behind it, the rugby public is wide awake and fed up of the rugby; the general feeling amongst the public and live match attendance confirms that for me.

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Post by munkian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:15 am

Wales announce team to face South Africa

Wales team to face South Africa: Leigh Halfpenny; George North, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, Liam Williams; Dan Biggar, Gareth Davies; Gethin Jenkins, Ken Owens, Tomas Francis; Luke Charteris, Alun Wyn Jones; Dan Lydiate, Justin Tipuric, Ross Moriarty.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Nicky Smith, Samson Lee, Cory Hill, Taulupe Faletau, Lloyd Williams, Sam Davies, Jamie Roberts.

Warburton picked up a stinger in training.
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Post by uncle_nigel on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:25 am

That explains Lydiate then. Hope he pulls his finger out. The bench seems fair enough as it's rewarding form.

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Post by munkian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:26 am

Not a bad bench bar Brynmoor Jnr.
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Post by uncle_nigel on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:30 am

munkian wrote:Not a bad bench bar Brynmoor Jnr.

Yep this being the exception. Even Cardiff are favoring his namesake Tomos and I would have called him up in Lloyd's place.

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Post by munkian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:32 am

Breakdown could be a worry - we were battered there by Aus, SA could be a horror show.

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Post by munkian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:36 am

“We’ve made just one change in the back-row. Sam (Warburton) picked up a bit of a stinger injury on Tuesday and isn’t quite ready so Dan comes in. Dan played particularly well against Japan so we are pleased he gets the opportunity again.

He did ? And if so wasn't that because they weren't exactly 6'6 and 18 stone ?
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Post by wayne on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:41 am

So going by the players released to the Regions being announced, we (Ospreys) are hit again as the 2 players NOT released are Keelan Giles and James King.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:46 am

I can't see the logic on Lydiate, but I guess he suits the game plan to try and match the Springboks physically.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:46 am

I don't see how lying does anyone any good. He didn't play particularly well against Japan, and they can't be pleased he gets the opportunity again as it's only come about through injury - unless they're pleased Warburton's injured.


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Post by munkian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:49 am

Why would they be pleased hes injured ? I thought hes done alright so far - missed him at the breakdown
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:34 am

Of course they're not pleased he's injured. I'm just saying that would be the only way Howley could say he's pleased Lydiate gets another opportunity and not be lying.

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Post by No9 on Fri Nov 25, 2016 1:51 am

Wales: Halfpenny; North, J Davies, S Williams, Liam Williams; Biggar, G Davies; Jenkins (capt), Owens, Francis, Charteris, Wyn Jones, Lydiate, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Hill, Faletau, Lloyd Williams, S Davies, Roberts.

BBC wrote:Halfpenny's return to the number 15 shirt sees Liam Williams move to the wing.

The one thing that was a positive from the Japan game was Liam at 15 and Halfpenny on the wing... WHY change that back.. Guess the rest speak for itself, but would rather Moriaty play 6 instead of Lydiate (on current form) and Faletau take his No8 slot.

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Post by RiscaGame on Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:55 am

Explaining his back three selection, Wales coach Rob Howley says Liam Williams is a left wing who can play full-back.

laughing

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Post by munkian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:59 am

RiscaGame wrote:Explaining his back three selection, Wales coach Rob Howley says Liam Williams is a left wing who can play full-back.

laughing

FFS Rolling Eyes
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Welsh team to face SA Empty Re: Welsh team to face SA

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Fri Nov 25, 2016 4:21 am

That's pathetic.

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Welsh team to face SA Empty Re: Welsh team to face SA

Post by Gwlad on Fri Nov 25, 2016 6:27 am

RiscaGame wrote:Explaining his back three selection, Wales coach Rob Howley says Liam Williams is a left wing who can play full-back.

laughing

For some reason i am reminded of Tootsie….

I was a better man as a woman than i was a man when i was a man.

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Welsh team to face SA Empty Re: Welsh team to face SA

Post by wayne on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:16 am

Personally, when sicknote dropped out again, of the 23 selected for this game, the only change to the 23 I would have made was King instead of Lydiate, there was a couple of positions I would have altered.
Sanjay changing with Halfpenny, Moriarty to 6, with Faletau to 8, and King on the bench, and I expect us to win this game by over a score.

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Welsh team to face SA Empty Re: Welsh team to face SA

Post by Cardiff Dave on Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:27 am

No9 wrote:Wales: Halfpenny; North, J Davies, S Williams, Liam Williams; Biggar, G Davies; Jenkins (capt), Owens, Francis, Charteris, Wyn Jones, Lydiate, Moriarty, Tipuric.

Replacements: Baldwin, Smith, Lee, Hill, Faletau, Lloyd Williams, S Davies, Roberts.

BBC wrote:Halfpenny's return to the number 15 shirt sees Liam Williams move to the wing.

The one thing that was a positive from the Japan game was Liam at 15 and Halfpenny on the wing... WHY change that back.. Guess the rest speak for itself, but would rather Moriaty play 6 instead of Lydiate (on current form) and Faletau take his No8 slot.

That's two things mun, ffs. Very Happy

Could be a try fest this, what with SA making a zillion changes and team Wales missing JR at 12, doing his team Wales thing.


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