Ireland v Australia, 26 November

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 21 Nov 2016, 9:44 am

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Ireland v Australia, 26 November - Page 4 Irelan10    Ireland v Australia, 26 November - Page 4 Wallab10
IRELAND v AUSTRALIA
26 November 2016
KO: 17:30
Aviva Stadium, Dublin

Live on [tbc]

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Assistant Referees: JP Doyle (England), Craig Maxwell-Keys (England)
TMO: Eric Gauzins (France)

A. Head to Head

32 Played 32
10 Won 21
1 Drawn 1
21 Lost 10
453 Points 657

B. Recent Form

22 November 2014
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
26 – 23 to Ireland

16 November 2013
Aviva Stadium, Dublin
15 – 32 to Australia

17 September 2011
Eden Park, Auckland
15 – 6 to Ireland

26 June 2010
Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane
22 – 15 to Australia

15 November 2009
Croke Park, Dublin
20 – 20 draw

14 June 2008
Colonial Stadium, Melbourne
18 – 12 to Australia

19 November 2006
Lansdowne Road, Dublin
21 – 6 to Ireland

C. Teams

IRELAND
Ireland v Australia, 26 November - Page 4 Leprac10
Kearney; Trimble, Payne, Ringrose, Earls; Jackson, Murray; McGrath, Best, Furlong; Henderson, Toner; Stander, O'Brien, Heaslip.

Replacements: Cronin, Healy, Bealham, Dillane, Van der Flier, Marmion, Carbery, Zebo.

AUSTRALIA
Ireland v Australia, 26 November - Page 4 Kangar10
Folau, Haylett-Petty, Kuridrani, Hodge, Speight, Foley, Genia; Sio, Moore (capt), Kepu; Arnold, Simmons; Mumm, Hooper, Pocock.

Replacements: Latu, Slipper, Alaalatoa, Douglas, Timani, McMahon, Phipps, Cooper, Naivalu (one to be omitted).


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Post by Engine#4 on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:29 pm

What a game, frantic and some great rugby. Australia were irresistible for the 3rd quarter.

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Post by profitius on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:29 pm

Cracking win considering the injuries. Furlong immense.
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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:33 pm

Big game from marmion out on the wing. Last ten he put in some great tackles

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Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:33 pm

What a year. Furlong, van der Flier and Ringrose have been exceptional and will form the core of this Ireland team.

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Post by emack2 on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:34 pm

If Ireland had lost this game have to question game management in
first few minutes a penalty.Right in front of the posts on the 22 take
the points?no kick for the corner lose the lineout.
All for going for the try BUT when it was all Ireland early on keeping
the scoreboard ticking meant more sense.

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Post by marty2086 on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:36 pm

emack2 wrote:If Ireland had lost this game have to question game management in
first few minutes a penalty.Right in front of the posts on the 22 take
the points?no kick for the corner lose the lineout.
All for going for the try BUT when it was all Ireland early on keeping
the scoreboard ticking meant more sense.

Its mental conditioning, sometimes you have to play like you need to get the big scores for the times when you need the big scores

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Post by Engine#4 on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:43 pm

I see your point but we took the points last week and lost. I think that given we were kept tryless last week it was imperative that we scored a try in the first half.

That butchered try by the Aussies when Folau(?) had two men outside him probably cost them the game though.


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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:43 pm

Today has been a good day. Played my first game in a while scored a hat trick. Ireland beat the Ozzie's, and the Mrs seems quite frisky. All I need is the lottery win and I'm golden.

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Post by Maine man on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:50 pm

You're a lucky man Carpet Baboon.

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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:51 pm

More lucky than I deserve to be honest

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Post by carpet baboon on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:55 pm

On the first yellow. Was the Ozzie number 5 trying to gouge furlong?

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Post by westisbest on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 7:56 pm

Some win considering the injuries to the backs.

Ringrose looks class, will be some player. Took his try well.
Great display, charachter from Ireland.

SA, NZ and Australia in the same year.
A first win in SA ans a first win v The All Blacks.

Looking forward to the 6 nations

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Post by doctor_grey on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 8:03 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Today has been a good day. Played my first game in a while scored a hat trick. Ireland beat the Ozzie's, and the Mrs seems quite frisky. All I need is the lottery win and I'm golden.
Happy as heck for Ireland.
Happy for you about your missus, but don't sit in front of a computer typing, man - get down to business: 5 minutes goes fast these days.

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Post by Guest on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 8:04 pm

Brilliant to get the win, and especially with so many changes to this side. Looked like the game was getting away from us in the 3rd quarter, but Ireland showed immense character to get back in and grind out the win.

We have have beaten South Africa, ABs and Australia all in the one season Cool

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 8:17 pm

Rory has shown up eejits like Neil Francis to be charlatans and bigots. Congrats to Rory who has been an honest rugby player and an all round decent bloke

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Post by doctor_grey on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 9:23 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Rory has shown up eejits like Neil Francis to be charlatans and bigots. Congrats to Rory who has been an honest rugby player and an all round decent bloke
For Neil Francis, I think we have known that for a very long time. Best, who was indeed very good, simply added more evidence to a very high pile.........

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Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 11:14 pm

... and Joe has now proved beyond all doubt that he is the best coach in the world.

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 11:47 pm

Australian fans must be a frustrated bunch.  To have a team that can fire up so slickly and really take a game by the horns both in terms of skill, pace and the necessary bloody minded emotion.... and yet still lose.  I'd be gutted.

Great to hang on for the win.  Lovely moments with Rory and his family.  Delighted that the night  (and International year!) turned out just about perfect for him.  Lovely man - plays with his heart full-on in all games.

On the performance - thank God for our young lads.  They really are now sending the surges of self-belief through the team just at moments when we're clinging on and needing them.  That wasn't idle talk by Rory when he praised the younger players who come in and recharge the team with their fearless enthusiasm and their refusal to drop the heads when under pressure.

Great win.  Salute to the Aussies - I love how they play with a drive and an infectious, almost wildness of endeavour, at times.  There was a moment when it looked like they had become unstoppable and I thought the end scoreline was going to be ugly for us.

So great win - but I'm afraid, it's only highlighted for me again that the balance of our backline has become our most important issue.  We simply need to find a more regular creativity selection of players who can operate a more incisive attacking gameplan.  We remain too blunt and too easy to defend against too often in a game.

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Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 12:57 pm

Ireland have stepped up a level this autumn and are in the top 3 of World Rugby.

At the very top level Australia fall short - Ireland backs were a shambles, understandably, in the second half but we still won.
Australia should have won given the teams in the second half.

Ringrose is a huge fine and now provides a 3rd centre alongside Payne and Henshaw.
Carbery gives us a third 10 of the required class.
For the first time in a long time Sexton being missing doesn't overly worry me - Jackson with Carbery as backup is fine.
Ironically the back three is my biggest worry, a lot of ok players but non who are top draw - Trimble looks the best of the bunch but he got injured.

Up front some great performances but have to pick out Best and Furlong who were absolutely brilliant - Ross is no longer 1st choice TH

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 1:08 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Up front some great performances but have to pick out Best and Furlong who were absolutely brilliant - Ross is no longer 1st choice TH

Furlong has grown into the role and has looked comfortable against some of the best front rows in the world, his recent performances for me put him as favourite at the minute to start for the Lions

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Post by carpet baboon on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:36 pm

Just had a quick look at the stats on ESPN. Vdf didn't miss a tackle. And marmion made 6 and missed 1. Not bad as he was out on the wing

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Post by Sin é on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:47 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Ireland have stepped up a level this autumn and are in the top 3 of World Rugby.

At the very top level Australia fall short - Ireland backs were a shambles, understandably,  in the second half but we still won.
Australia should have won given the teams in the second half.

Ringrose is a huge fine and now provides a 3rd centre alongside Payne and Henshaw.
Carbery gives us a third 10 of the required class.
For the first time in a long time Sexton being missing doesn't overly worry me - Jackson with Carbery as backup is fine.
Ironically the back three is my biggest worry, a lot of ok players but non who are top draw - Trimble looks the best of the bunch but he got injured.

Up front some great performances but have to pick out Best and Furlong who were absolutely brilliant - Ross is no longer 1st choice TH

Seriously?
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Post by Cyril on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:51 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Ireland have stepped up a level this autumn and are in the top 3 of World Rugby.
They're 4th.

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Post by wolfball on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:53 pm

Sin é wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Ireland have stepped up a level this autumn and are in the top 3 of World Rugby.

At the very top level Australia fall short - Ireland backs were a shambles, understandably,  in the second half but we still won.
Australia should have won given the teams in the second half.

Ringrose is a huge fine and now provides a 3rd centre alongside Payne and Henshaw.
Carbery gives us a third 10 of the required class.
For the first time in a long time Sexton being missing doesn't overly worry me - Jackson with Carbery as backup is fine.
Ironically the back three is my biggest worry, a lot of ok players but non who are top draw - Trimble looks the best of the bunch but he got injured.

Up front some great performances but have to pick out Best and Furlong who were absolutely brilliant - Ross is no longer 1st choice TH



Seriously?
I'd say Zebo is our only true international quality winger right now. Trimble played solidly over the autumn and Earls had some good moments but neither would make England/Australia/NZ/Wales teams in my view.

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Post by theslosty on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 8:02 pm

Zebo has had a decent Autumn but in recent seasons Earls has been twice the player for Munster and Ireland in my view. The latter is a great finisher, tackles well, hits rucks, offloads and has a great step. Maybe he doesn't kick as well as Zebo or compete in the air like Trimble does but he (and Trimble) would walk onto the Wales team this moment in time.
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Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 8:46 pm

Yes seriously - out performed both Earls and Zebo defensively in my view.
Schmidt clearly agrees re Earls who was behind both Trimble and Zebo in selection

Cyril I am talking current form not rankings which take in the last 30 results.
By that reckoning SA are 5th or 6th when their performances put them 9th, at best.

Wolfball as I said one of our problem is we have no top draw back three players - I just reckon Trimble is the best of a much of a muchness set of wingers.


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Post by carpet baboon on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 9:25 pm

Just watching the game back. And I have to say marmion was fantastic all things considered. Made some brilliant defensive reads

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Post by Sin é on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:22 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Yes seriously - out performed both Earls and Zebo defensively in my view.
Schmidt clearly agrees re Earls who was behind both Trimble and Zebo in selection

Cyril I am talking current form not rankings which take in the last 30 results.
By that reckoning SA are 5th or 6th when their performances put them 9th, at best.

Wolfball as I said one of our problem is we have no top draw back three players - I just reckon Trimble is the best of a much of a muchness set of wingers.


While I think Trimble can put in some great hits, he didn't make one tackle v. Australia in his 30 minutes. Marmion his eventual replacement made 6 tackles missing 1.

Meanwhile, Earls made 9 tackles missing 3 and played in 3 different positions, eventually ending up replacing Jared Payne.

Now I suggest you watch Henderson's try again and see who made it.
https://youtu.be/344Fix1qHuk?t=4m

You should also take a look at Zebo's tackle on Hooper
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/simon-zebo-michael-hooper-tackle/104411

As for selection pecking order: Earls was suspended for first AB game in Chicago, he played against Canada, dead leg so couldn't train for 2nd AB game, and started on wing ahead of Zebo v Australia.
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Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:28 pm

So what do folk around here make of Chieka's reaction? He seems to be getting at "we woz robbed" - unless I'm missing something.

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:45 pm

We all gits 'robbed' one time or another.
Seems mostly though that whenever a side ranked higher loses to a side ranked lower, the notion of being robbed intensifies. The Natural Order of things has been sullied in the minds of the Righteous.

Cheika was all grand talk about the threat Ireland posed in the lead up to the game but, for a fact, he always casually felt he had the game in the bag and even before a ball was kicked in Dublin, he was mentally set to go for his Grand Slam against the English next week (worthy opponents for his guys).

Truth be told, he almost did get the game into his bag.... but his team were simply out fought.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:52 pm

Thanks Fly. Great result for Ireland by the way, respect to the team.

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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 5:06 am

uncle-nigel wrote:So what do folk around here make of Chieka's reaction? He seems to be getting at "we woz robbed" - unless I'm missing something.

Ireland had a lot of luck on Saturday some good, some bad Very Happy

Good Luck includes:
Having a touch judge who spots things like tip tackles and forward passes. (Well done Nigel Owens)
Australia buthered a couple of clear try scoring opportunites by making poor decisions.

Bad Luck Includes:
Having only 2 first choice backs actually playing in position by the end of the game!


Australia should really have put Ireland away, Cheika can have little to complain about.
First Auusie sent off, deserved yellow and he knew it - he was very apologetic.
When foley was sent off the match was already lost.

One instance needs explained to me why was Pocock not offside when Murray passed to him in our out half position? Murray was passing from the base of a ruck was he not? It wasn't open play.

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Post by carpet baboon on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 6:51 am

rapidsnowman wrote:
uncle-nigel wrote:So what do folk around here make of Chieka's reaction? He seems to be getting at "we woz robbed" - unless I'm missing something.

Ireland had a lot of luck on Saturday some good, some bad Very Happy

Good Luck includes:
Having a touch judge who spots things like tip tackles and forward passes. (Well done Nigel Owens)
Australia buthered a couple of clear try scoring opportunites by making poor decisions.

Bad Luck Includes:
Having only 2 first choice backs actually playing in position by the end of the game!


Australia should really have put Ireland away, Cheika can have little to complain about.
First Auusie sent off, deserved yellow and he knew it - he was very apologetic.
When foley was sent off the match was already lost.

One instance needs explained to me why was Pocock not offside when Murray passed to him in our out half position? Murray was passing from the base of a ruck was he not? It wasn't open play.


It wasn't a ruck. From the kick off. We went up caught it and went to ground. No Australian made a ttackle or engaged with an ireland player. So no ruck, no offside, the ball is playable.
You can hear the ref telling the players.
A few super rugby teams have done this from ko during the season.
It's the same when we do our no engagement at a lineout and run round the back

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Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 6:53 am

'One instance needs explained to me why was Pocock not offside when Murray passed to him in our out half position? Murray was passing from the base of a ruck was he not? It wasn't open play.'

No Australian players in the ruck therefore no ruck was formed therefore no offside. I must take another look at it to be sure.

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Post by eirebilly on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:00 am

geoff999rugby wrote:

Wolfball as I said one of our problem is we have no top draw back three players - I just reckon Trimble is the best of a much of a muchness set of wingers.


Trimble is very good but I would have Earls and Zebo ahead of him. Earls is an outstanding winger, makes excellent ground, has great vision and hands (see Saturdays vision and pass for Henderson's try), very solid defensively, versatile (can play several positions) and has a very high work rate in the rucks. I would say that Earls would get into most International teams on the wing.

I am not putting Trimble down, just feel that Earls brings more to the game than he does.
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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:04 am

Thanks.

I didn't even see Pocock until the pass from Murray landed in his arms. Murray was a bit shocked too!!

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Post by eirebilly on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:05 am

carpet baboon wrote:On the first yellow. Was the Ozzie number 5 trying to gouge furlong?

I watched it back several times and his hand is very close to the eye area, wonder if it will get looked at.
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Post by carpet baboon on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:25 am

rapidsnowman wrote:Thanks.

I didn't even see Pocock until the pass from Murray landed in his arms. Murray was a bit shocked too!!

I think Murray was playing for the penalty. At the next scrum you can see Murray asking him why it wasn't a pen for offside.

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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:34 am

The way injuries are going we need Zebo, Earls and Trimble with more besides.

Zebo and Earls are certainly more versatile, but Andy brings something extra in terms of physicality.

Poor Marmion nearly got marmelised!
Full credit to the wee man though, never shirked a tackle and even made a wee darting run or two himself.

Who was man of the match? My pick would have been VDF.

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Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 8:49 am

Well I saw Trimble tackle - I don't care what the stats say.
Also you need to look at missed tackles as well as made tackles

Anyway I stick with the central thrust of my argument Irelands problem going forward at the top of international rugby is our lack of top draw wingers - none are World Class.

By contrast we are well served in the centre


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Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:12 am

rapidsnowman wrote:
Poor Marmion nearly got marmelised!
Full credit to the wee man though, never shirked a tackle and even made a wee darting run or two himself.

Joe picked Marmion out for praise, particularly his tackle on Pocock that led to the forward pass

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Post by rodders on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:33 am

marty2086 wrote:
rapidsnowman wrote:
Poor Marmion nearly got marmelised!
Full credit to the wee man though, never shirked a tackle and even made a wee darting run or two himself.

Joe picked Marmion out for praise, particularly his tackle on Pocock that led to the forward pass

Sensational effort by Marmion, a match winner. Zebo's up the other end of the field was just as important.  

The Wallabies will feel aggrieved I'm sure that a few things didn't go their way but for Ireland to hold on and see that out with that back line was an incredible effort.

Andy Farrell hasn't been mentioned enough but clearly he's made a big impact.

Rory Best just gets better with age and is now one of Ireland's great forwards, I know Gats doesn't rate him but surely should be Lions captain on current form.

VDF and Ringrose are two of the best talents in Irish rugby in years.  

There's definitely things to work on heading into the 6N but that was a great autumn series for Ireland.
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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:41 am

Was glad Paddy made all his kicks. Don't think he is ready to take over from Sexton yet though.

Henshaw and Ringrose could be the next Darcy and Bod for club and country for a few years to come. Maybe with Payne dropping back to fullback.


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Post by marty2086 on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:51 am

rapidsnowman wrote:Was glad Paddy made all his kicks. Don't think he is ready to take over from Sexton yet though.

Henshaw and Ringrose could be the next Darcy and Bod for club and country for a few years to come. Maybe with Payne dropping back to fullback.


Think Paddys still finding his feet a bit at test level, seems a bit caught out at times by the line speed in the last two games and forces things a little especially kicking out of hand

Think he needs to get more game time under his belt against the top teams just to build the experience and gain some composure

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:46 am

Paddy Jackson was really good IMO. He is such a calm collected player. I think he has proven that he can start without Ireland losing any quality.

Furlong is our player of the series.

Zebo had a good game. His dink for Earls and Earls' step inside to feed the hungry Henderson was the move of the game. For me Earls is the best Ireland player for finding a gap followed by Zebo.

VDF is absolutely sublime. Ireland have the best backrow and backrow depth in world rugby at the moment. Pretty good front row depth too.

Nice to see Ringrose play so well. Dont care what anyone says I reckon Schmidt has managed his integration into the team to perfection.

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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:00 am

I think we need to utilize Furlong on the crash ball when we are 5 metres out!

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Ireland have the best backrow and backrow depth in world rugby at the moment.

Not to mention Leinster Rolling Eyes

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Post by rodders on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:33 am

marty2086 wrote:
rapidsnowman wrote:Was glad Paddy made all his kicks. Don't think he is ready to take over from Sexton yet though.

Henshaw and Ringrose could be the next Darcy and Bod for club and country for a few years to come. Maybe with Payne dropping back to fullback.


Think Paddys still finding his feet a bit at test level, seems a bit caught out at times by the line speed in the last two games and forces things a little especially kicking out of hand

Think he needs to get more game time under his belt against the top teams just to build the experience and gain some composure

Agree with that but he's really looked assured with his place kicking - I'd put him ahead of Sexton on that now and he's a much better passer.

He's not as physical in defense but few are and he is standing a bit too deep in attack in my opinion but overall he's done really well and earned the starting 10 spot for the 6N, if Jonny does take a break from the game as some reports suggest.

I've been impressed with Carberry though, looks a real talent.
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Post by profitius on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:45 am

It's been a good few weeks. VDF and Dillane have grown. Furlong is looking like the player everyone hoped. Ringrose looks comfortable at that level and in a rejigged back line too. Jackson is maturing.


I still think the back line needs a bit of surgery. Schmidt doesn't like throwing youngsters in but I'd like to see him do it for the back 3. Trimble and Kearney can't be faulted for what they've given but there are other players who offer more attacking threat. Darren Sweetnam is very fast, has a good kick, great in the air, good vision, can offload etc. I'd like to see him in the 6 nations. Maybe it's a bit early but I'd also like to see Jacob Stockdale in the squad in the next year.


Schmidt can afford to rotate a bit more now which should keep players fresher. No need to start SOB in every game. Cian Healys career could be lengthened by the presence of McGrath. Healy had a huge workload in his career, having to start all the big games for Leinster and Ireland since his early 20s.


Schmidt's use of the bench is usually spot on.
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Post by Maine man on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:00 pm

I agree that the back 3 lack outright pace. Just out of curiosity who would people class as the quickest back three players in Ireland? I'm not saying that they should be picked. Just curious.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 12:12 pm

eirebilly wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:

Wolfball as I said one of our problem is we have no top draw back three players - I just reckon Trimble is the best of a much of a muchness set of wingers.


Trimble is very good but I would have Earls and Zebo ahead of him. Earls is an outstanding winger, makes excellent ground, has great vision and hands (see Saturdays vision and pass for Henderson's try), very solid defensively, versatile (can play several positions) and has a very high work rate in the rucks. I would say that Earls would get into most International teams on the wing.


Problem is all our backs are 'World Class' from 20 feet out. Problem is not many of them make the grade in initiating something sweeter between them further out. The forwards punch us towards the try line and the backs (if they're not on their smoking break) do a little 'World Class' attacking from there - maybe..... if the forwards give them the ball. Wink

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