WR Rankings at 27 November 2017

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Post by George Carlin on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:08 am

1New Zealand94.78
2England89.84
3Australia86.97(-1.17)
4Ireland84.62(+1.17)
5(↑6)Wales82.55(+0.78)
6(↓5)South Africa81.79(-0.78)
7Scotland80.67(+0.10)
8France80.13
9Argentina79.91
10Fiji76.16(+0.67)
11Japan74.52(-0.67)
12Georgia74.14(-0.10)
13Italy72.47(-1.69)
14(↑15)Tonga71.94(+1.69)
15(↓14)Samoa70.95(+0.04)

This is unofficial, but should be correct. 

What do we think about these? Are they generally reflective of where the union world is at the moment?

Anyone surprised by anything here given the recent winter test series?
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Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:29 am

With Ireland beating the All Blacks in chicago and Australia yesterday. I thought they would be 3rd and not 4th to be honest.

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Post by George Carlin on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:50 am

majesticimperialman wrote:With Ireland beating the All Blacks in chicago and Australia yesterday. I thought they would be 3rd and not 4th to be honest.
Ireland jumped almost one and a quarter points as a result of tonking the Wallabies at the weekend - that's a lot. 

The point is that the gap between them was big to begin with - Australia won 3, lost 3 in the Rugby Championship (finishing 2nd) which gave them a good points cushion when that tournament finished on 8 October.
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Post by exile jack on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:16 am

Top 4 streets ahead of the rest but Scotland are playing with a vibrancy that bodes well for the 6N.I'd love to see England v Ireland at the moment.All three have the potential to give Wales right ol' twonkings in the 6N.

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Post by Guest on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:21 am

I think Wales' position of 5th is too high and not reflective of how gash we are. 5th best in the 6N maybe, but not the world!

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Post by Ineffable on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:45 am

Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

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Post by demosthenes on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:50 am

Top four are about right; 5 - 8 also, but not in that order.  I think France are too low as according to some reports they appear to be getting it back again - 'it' being a French way of playing combining power and flair.  If right, and that continues, they will improve position in the 6N.  Watching Wales and South Africa, neither look capable of competing with the top four.  Below that, Argentina will, I think, improve and are anyway on par with the four above.  As for the rest, all capable of the odd upset of higher ranked teams but equally capable of losing to 'inferiors'.

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Post by Guest on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:51 am

Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

You have to beat teams ranked above you to climb up the rankings! Run

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Post by poissonrouge on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:51 am

I agree with the figures apart from Fiji and Japan - surely that was at a neutral venue so the rating change would be 0.971 - although makes no difference to rankings. (Also ? Samoa/Canada match was neutral venue so ranking change is 0.34)
I think Scotland may be worth a bit more than their current ranking - on the basis of the fact they nearly beat Australia. And maybe France are a bit undervalued.

The really interesting question is - what happens between now and the World Cup seeding in May 17.
Can Argentina end up back in top 8 and RSA back in top 4? (nothing they can do but can 6N losses to other teams promote them)
Will Ireland keep 4th or can Wales sneak into 4th depending on their performance in 6N?
Are the top 3 (NZ, Eng, and Aus) guaranteed of a top 4 seeding or can they slide down?
As far as I can see the only matches before seeding that involve the top 15 teams are the 6N.


Last edited by poissonrouge on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 12:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by poissonrouge on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:54 am

Griff wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

You have to beat teams ranked above you to climb up the rankings! Run
Not necessarily - you can beat teams below you - will get less points, but if you beat 2 or 3 teams below you you may get enough to climb above someone else. Yes if you are playing a team above you you will lose points if you lose
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Post by Guest on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:57 am

poissonrouge wrote:
Griff wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

You have to beat teams ranked above you to climb up the rankings! Run
Not necessarily - you can beat teams below you - will get less points, but if you beat 2 or 3 teams below you you may get enough to climb above someone else. Yes if you are playing a team above you you will lose points if you lose

To be honest I was just having a cheeky jibe at Scottish fans who feel they should be higher up the rankings!

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Post by George Carlin on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:59 am

I would rather that Wales stay above Scotland for the moment. 

That way, when we beat them like they owe us money in the 6 Nations this year, it will be a nice little bump. Very Happy

(Run)
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Post by Guest on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:23 am

George Carlin wrote:I would rather that Wales stay above Scotland for the moment. 

That way, when we beat them like they owe us money in the 6 Nations this year, it will be a nice little bump. Very Happy

(Run)


'Bout time you beat us GC. What's it been, 10 years?! Smile

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Post by poissonrouge on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 12:04 pm

Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If Scotland and France are currently ranked below their "correct" position, then they are the banana skins for England, Ireland and Wales in the 6N. You don't get a big lift by beating teams below you, but you do lose a lot by losing to teams well below you. England play Scotland in the 6N - ok ranking may have changed prior to that game, but on current rankings a loss by England at home to Scotland would be a 2pt shift for each team. Sadly for Scotland they play Wales at home, so on current ranking scores they can only get 0.9 ranking points for a home win.
And heaven help anyone who loses to Italy - they are so far down the rankings that losing to them is between 1.5 to 2 points of a ranking loss! furious
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Post by George Carlin on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 1:05 pm

Griff wrote:
George Carlin wrote:I would rather that Wales stay above Scotland for the moment. 

That way, when we beat them like they owe us money in the 6 Nations this year, it will be a nice little bump. Very Happy

(Run)

'Bout time you beat us GC. What's it been, 10 years?! Smile
I'm feeling brave now that little try scoring goblin fartface Shane Williams has retired.  boxing

He used to kill us every single year. We just had to wait to see which way he chose to do it each time.
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Post by whocares on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 1:11 pm

France better get a convincing win against Scotland and possibly wales in the 6N to avoid the 8th position.

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Post by yappysnap on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 1:16 pm

Argentina have dropped dramatically.

They were growing nicely but have been gash this AI's. Have they lost every game?

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Post by George Carlin on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 1:17 pm

France are so odd at the moment. Sometimes they look like they wouldn't be able to score for a week but yet they were brilliant against the All Blacks and could have taken the game. 

So more Gallic than ever, in other words. 

WhoCares - what has the French press been saying about their team's test form?
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Post by whocares on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 1:34 pm

French press and fans alike are positive despite the losses as at least watching France now is entertaining while in the last 4 years it was at best boring and usually embarrassing.
Don't think we are so inconsistent really as there was real progress made since the Argentina tour, slow progress yes but still going in the right direction. For instance yesterday they managed to physically match the ABs throughout the game when it wasn't the case against the Aussies. Reminds me of the early Lancaster England manager period. The only difference is that we lost 4 years vs England.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 1:57 pm

Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If there's a top 5 in world rugby wales probably aren't in it; however they've beaten every team ranked below them, and have either lost or drawn to those ranked above them. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure how or why Wales should swap places with France or Scotland; two teams we've been beating for years whilst stuck in third gear. One win over minnows georgia and the delusion in Scotland is rife.

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Post by reallybored on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 2:00 pm

uncle_nigel wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If there's a top 5 in world rugby wales probably aren't in it; however they've beaten every team ranked below them, and have either lost or drawn to those ranked above them. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure how or why Wales should swap places with France or Scotland; two teams we've been beating for years whilst stuck in third gear. One win over minnows georgia and the delusion in Scotland is rife.

OK

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Post by George Carlin on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 2:26 pm

uncle_nigel wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If there's a top 5 in world rugby wales probably aren't in it; however they've beaten every team ranked below them, and have either lost or drawn to those ranked above them. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure how or why Wales should swap places with France or Scotland; two teams we've been beating for years whilst stuck in third gear. One win over minnows georgia and the delusion in Scotland is rife.
Yes, but you're talking as though you don't think that we know this. Headscratch
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Post by Poorfour on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 3:18 pm

yappysnap wrote:Argentina have dropped dramatically.

They were growing nicely but have been gash this AI's. Have they lost every game?

Lack of strength in depth, plus actually the NH sides are better than they have been given credit for
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Post by wolfball on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 5:16 pm

These are the rugbyvision.com current order (which I follow for betting purposes and is generally more accurate in terms of predicting results than WRs order).

1 New Zealand 133.75
2 England 122.84
3 Australia 119.20
4 Ireland 118.85
5 South Africa 115.77
6 Wales 113.79
7 France 112.93
8 Argentina 111.54
9 Scotland 109.32
10 Fiji 97.45
11 Samoa 95.31
12 Italy 93.58

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Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 5:16 pm

George Carlin wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If there's a top 5 in world rugby wales probably aren't in it; however they've beaten every team ranked below them, and have either lost or drawn to those ranked above them. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure how or why Wales should swap places with France or Scotland; two teams we've been beating for years whilst stuck in third gear. One win over minnows georgia and the delusion in Scotland is rife.
Yes, but you're talking as though you don't think that we know this. Headscratch

Oh, okay. I think the top 4 are correct and then there's the rest. Sitting in fifth is a fair reflection of Wales' form in my opinion.

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Post by Ineffable on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:16 pm

I knew the Scotland comment would bring all the Welsh out to play.

Wales have beaten us for 10 years, you're right. Wales have this amazing positive attitude as a team and strong conditioning (mentally and physically) that they tend to punish Scotland in the closing stages of games - apart from, granted, some one offs where Scotland are just never in it.

I do think however that Wales have had a more lucky than average run of form against Scotland. If you played those same teams over the past 13 years or whatever against each other, I think Wales winning all 13 or whatever of them would be shown up to be the unlikely event it has been.

Basically what I'm saying is we was robbed - every time - and just you wait till the 6N where our optimism will overshadow the thumping loss we probably receive from some ridiculous yellow card or forward pass or something else that always seems to happen when the two sides meet (entertaining as it is, it is kind of annoying now).

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Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:08 pm

Well all joking aside I think come Feb Scotland have their best chance of beating Wales in over 10 years. This Wales team is cac and I can't really see us improving enough to challenge teams away from home.

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 5:46 am

We always look great against Wales in the first half an hour and then:

1. We get a completely avoidable red/yellow card; and 
2. Wales score against the run of play; and 
3. Shane Williams scores in the corner having put his feet in touch 8 times during the process (try always still awarded anyway); and 
4. We get an injury to a critical member of the front row and backpedal for the rest of the game; and 
5. Shane Williams scores again in the 79th minute, just as we start to look useful again. 

I am slightly less concerned that 3 and 5 may not happen this year but all of the rest probably will.

Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
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Post by rapidsnowman on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 6:55 am

George Carlin wrote:Shane Williams scores in the corner having put his feet in touch 8 times during the process (try always still awarded anyway); and
4. We get an injury to a critical member of the front row and backpedal for the rest of the game; and
5. Shane Williams scores again in the 79th minute, just as we start to look useful again.

You do know Shane retired from international rugby in 2011?

You must be confusing him with Cuthbert Whistle

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Post by George Carlin on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:09 am

rapidsnowman wrote:
George Carlin wrote:Shane Williams scores in the corner having put his feet in touch 8 times during the process (try always still awarded anyway); and
4. We get an injury to a critical member of the front row and backpedal for the rest of the game; and
5. Shane Williams scores again in the 79th minute, just as we start to look useful again.

You do know Shane retired from international rugby in 2011?

You must be confusing him with Cuthbert Whistle
Yes, we went to the pub to celebrate when the Squashed Goblin retired. 

Please, please Cuthbert against us. Please.
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Post by reallybored on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 7:45 am

uncle_nigel wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If there's a top 5 in world rugby wales probably aren't in it; however they've beaten every team ranked below them, and have either lost or drawn to those ranked above them. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure how or why Wales should swap places with France or Scotland; two teams we've been beating for years whilst stuck in third gear. One win over minnows georgia and the delusion in Scotland is rife.
Yes, but you're talking as though you don't think that we know this. Headscratch

Oh, okay. I think the top 4 are correct and then there's the rest. Sitting in fifth is a fair reflection of Wales' form in my opinion.
Did you actually watch Wales this November?

Comfortably playing the worst rugby in the NH.

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Post by rainbow-warrior on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 8:41 am

Did you actually watch Wales this November?

Comfortably playing the worst rugby in the NH


.............and yet we won 3 out of 4. If you can win playing badly it ain't a bad thing. I recall the crap spouted here about the 2011 WC and Wales not having a chance because they had had a poor spell...hmmmmm

I recall last year that Wales should not turn up for the WC as they were doomed to fail in the Group of Death .... we all know what happened there don't we Smile

Howley may not be the greatest but he blooded a few and even tried the 1/2 penny / Williams swap in these AI's. Let's face it he never embarrassed us like Gatland did when we played the Chiefs (who were in reality a Waikato side) this year, a disgusting result for Wales.

The coming 6N is a really hard one for Wales with Eng & Ire at home and the rest away. Yes if we play crap we could realistically end up with the wooden spoon. This, however, won't happen because we are too good and we will either gel with the new way of playing or can revert back to the old way.

Stroll on Feb Smile
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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 8:52 am

reallybored wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If there's a top 5 in world rugby wales probably aren't in it; however they've beaten every team ranked below them, and have either lost or drawn to those ranked above them. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure how or why Wales should swap places with France or Scotland; two teams we've been beating for years whilst stuck in third gear. One win over minnows georgia and the delusion in Scotland is rife.
Yes, but you're talking as though you don't think that we know this. Headscratch

Oh, okay. I think the top 4 are correct and then there's the rest. Sitting in fifth is a fair reflection of Wales' form in my opinion.
Did you actually watch Wales this November?

Comfortably playing the worst rugby in the NH.

I sure did, and I'm not sure, Italy could be playing worse (along with England as usual Run ). It's a shame for you that rankings only count results rather than how you perceive a team to be playing - so like I said the delusion is rife.

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Post by reallybored on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:05 am

uncle_nigel wrote:
reallybored wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
George Carlin wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
Ineffable wrote:Wales and SA should swap places with scotland and france (not sure in which order) then its spot on

If there's a top 5 in world rugby wales probably aren't in it; however they've beaten every team ranked below them, and have either lost or drawn to those ranked above them. With all this in mind I'm not quite sure how or why Wales should swap places with France or Scotland; two teams we've been beating for years whilst stuck in third gear. One win over minnows georgia and the delusion in Scotland is rife.
Yes, but you're talking as though you don't think that we know this. Headscratch

Oh, okay. I think the top 4 are correct and then there's the rest. Sitting in fifth is a fair reflection of Wales' form in my opinion.
Did you actually watch Wales this November?

Comfortably playing the worst rugby in the NH.

I sure did, and I'm not sure, Italy could be playing worse (along with England as usual Run ). It's a shame for you that rankings only count results rather than how you perceive a team to be playing - so like I said the delusion is rife.
We didn't get reamed by Australia unlike you.

And while South Africa does save your blushes to an extent, they were also beaten by Italy and England put 50 points on them.

England have been playing good rugby for a while now, the Welsh should try it rather than relying on Halfpenny's boot.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:14 am

ReallyBored, you're digging yourself a big hole here mate. You might not have got 'reemed' by Aus but that doesn't suddenly make you a better team than Wales who, like somebody pointed out, you haven't beaten in 10 years! We're ranked higher than Scotland through being a better team and that's a simple fact you need to accept. Stop being so deluded.

p.s. I spoke that way about England in jest, who actually did not beat SA by 50, to lighten the mood but you're still really angry over being inferior to Wales.
Stop latching onto England so you can make disparaging remarks about Wales - that's way beyond desperation.

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Post by reallybored on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:19 am

uncle_nigel wrote:ReallyBored, you're digging yourself a big hole here mate. You might not have got 'reemed' by Aus but that doesn't suddenly make you a better team than Wales who, like somebody pointed out, you haven't beaten in 10 years! We're ranked higher than Scotland through being a better team and that's a simple fact you need to accept. Stop being so deluded.

p.s. I spoke that way about England in jest, who actually did not beat SA by 50, to lighten the mood but you're still really angry over being inferior to Wales.
Stop latching onto England so you can make disparaging remarks about Wales - that's way beyond desperation.
Do kindly point me to the part where I said Scotland were a better side than Wales?

Plus, it is bizarre to talk about current world rankings but to harp back to results from a decade ago.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:26 am

So do you think Scotland are better than Wales? What's the reason for a Scotland rugby supporter making so many disparaging remarks about Wales? Why are you so delusional?

I've harked back to last season's results when I said Wales haven't lost to anyone ranked below them Hug. You'd better hope and pray Scotland manage it in 2017!

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Post by reallybored on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:45 am

uncle_nigel wrote:So do you think Scotland are better than Wales? What's the reason for a Scotland rugby supporter making so many disparaging remarks about Wales? Why are you so delusional?

I've harked back to last season's results when I said Wales haven't lost to anyone ranked below them Hug. You'd better hope and pray Scotland manage it in 2017!
What's the reason for a Scotland rugby supporter making so many disparaging remarks about Wales? Why not read your next sentence champ.

In your opinion, we're not just wrong for believing we've got a better team or have at least closed the gap, we're delusional.

You'd have thought after such an average Autumn the arrogance might have subsided a touch, guess not.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:54 am

reallybored wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:So do you think Scotland are better than Wales? What's the reason for a Scotland rugby supporter making so many disparaging remarks about Wales? Why are you so delusional?

I've harked back to last season's results when I said Wales haven't lost to anyone ranked below them Hug. You'd better hope and pray Scotland manage it in 2017!
What's the reason for a Scotland rugby supporter making so many disparaging remarks about Wales? Why not read your next sentence champ.

In your opinion, we're not just wrong for believing we've got a better team or have at least closed the gap, we're delusional.

You'd have thought after such an average Autumn the arrogance might have subsided a touch, guess not.

So what have you taken offence to exactly? If someone is going to act delusional then you can expect it to be pointed out OK.

You are wrong believing Scotland are a better team, they haven't proven it. If you believe winning against Georgia proves that then that's pretty delusional.

We're not the only ones to have an average autumn. It's not arrogant to point out the truth and if you're referring to me then where have I been arrogant? As far as I can see no Wales supporter has shown arrogance; we simply couldn't do it, believe it, and then keep a straight face!

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Post by R!skysports on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:04 am

Calm down dears

Wales rightly are higher that us in the rankings, as have been a better team for a while.

They had a poorer AI than they would have hoped, but still won 3 of their games.

We had an ok, and won 2 of ours.

This mean nothing come 6N time, and the better team will usually win on the day (Taking out ref blunders and silly yellows)

As a Scottish support, I never take AI as the yard stick on performance

I am just happy, that we have a good chance to be in the top 8 when the world cup draw is made



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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:06 am

Riskysports wrote:Calm down dears

Wales rightly are higher that us in the rankings, as have been a better team for a while.

They had a poorer AI than they would have hoped, but still won 3 of their games.

We had an ok, and won 2 of ours.

This mean nothing come 6N time, and the better team will usually win on the day (Taking out ref blunders and silly yellows)

As a Scottish support, I never take AI as the yard stick on performance

I am just happy, that we have a good chance to be in the top 8 when the world cup draw is made

Well I wouldn't disagree with any of that, therefore you're now back in touch! If you'd just said this rather than the disparaging remarks in the first place...

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Post by reallybored on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:12 am

uncle_nigel wrote:
reallybored wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:So do you think Scotland are better than Wales? What's the reason for a Scotland rugby supporter making so many disparaging remarks about Wales? Why are you so delusional?

I've harked back to last season's results when I said Wales haven't lost to anyone ranked below them Hug. You'd better hope and pray Scotland manage it in 2017!
What's the reason for a Scotland rugby supporter making so many disparaging remarks about Wales? Why not read your next sentence champ.

In your opinion, we're not just wrong for believing we've got a better team or have at least closed the gap, we're delusional.

You'd have thought after such an average Autumn the arrogance might have subsided a touch, guess not.

So what have you taken offence to exactly? If someone is going to act delusional then you can expect it to be pointed out OK.

You are wrong believing Scotland are a better team, they haven't proven it. If you believe winning against Georgia proves that then that's pretty delusional.
You're the only one mentioning the Georgia match, don't think any Scottish supporters are reading too much into that game.

What is giving us cause for optimism was the performances against Australia and Argentina.  

And the fact that we've got a very young team that are competing with top teams and playing an exciting style of rugby.

uncle_nigel wrote:
We're not the only ones to have an average autumn. It's not arrogant to point out the truth and if you're referring to me then where have I been arrogant? As far as I can see no Wales supporter has shown arrogance; we simply couldn't do it, believe it, and then keep a straight face!
Laugh Laugh Laugh

At last, a decent Welsh comedian.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:37 am

I was just trying to fit in. When I read Scotland should be ranked above Wales I instantly thought that this was a comedy show! Keep digging Wink. Fifth BEST in the WORLD.

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:43 am

uncle_nigel wrote:I was just trying to fit in. When I read Scotland should be ranked above Wales I instantly thought that this was a comedy show! Keep digging Wink. Fifth BEST in the WORLD.

And 2nd in tier 2* as well



*Tier 1 being defined for these purposes as "Anyone within 10 ranking points of NZ" - outside of that mark you don't lose points for losing to the ABs.

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Post by whocares on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:48 am

Nigel do have a point though - till we (am including France and Scotland here) cannot comprehensively beat those welsh boys during the 6N there is no point in claiming that we're better than them and should be ranked above etc. Might have been 10 years for Scotland but also 5 years for France so a win is overdue and hope the players target this game for a change.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:53 am

Scotland are where they deserve to be, if they have aspirations to be higher they obviously must beat teams ranked higher than them.

Come on let the Scots be a bit optimistic, their team in the past was one of the most boring teams to watch, these days they are genuinely a good team to watch, score some good tries and cannot be underestimated.

If you look where Scotland were with the likes of Robinson, Hansen and Johnson compared to now, Scotland have really stepped forward. Need to keep building though. Don't be plucky losers, try and reach the summit.

Narrowly losing to Australia is not good enough. You need to win.

The top teams have belief.

In the Argentina vs England game, even with 14 vs 15 men I don't think the Argentinians believed they would win and as a consequence they shot themselves in the foot.

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Post by uncle_nigel on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:58 am

whocares wrote:Nigel do have a point though - till we (am including France and Scotland here) cannot comprehensively beat those welsh boys during the 6N there is no point in claiming that we're better than them and should be ranked above etc. Might have been 10 years for Scotland but also 5 years for France so a win is overdue and hope the players target this game for a change.

Yep. As I said last night, it's your best chance in years as I can't see there being much of an improvement! And to be competitive we're going to need everyone who was available on Saturday to be available throughout February and March. Maybe a few of you on here have been reading ESPN too much, it seems to have quite the pro-English view and an anti-welsh sentiment this season.

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:04 am

beshocked wrote:Scotland are where they deserve to be, if they have aspirations to be higher they obviously must beat teams ranked higher than them.

Come on let the Scots be a bit optimistic, their team in the past was one of the most boring teams to watch, these days they are genuinely a good team to watch, score some good tries and cannot be underestimated.

If you look where Scotland were with the likes of Robinson, Hansen and Johnson compared to now, Scotland have really stepped forward. Need to keep building though. Don't be plucky losers, try and reach the summit.

Narrowly losing to Australia is not good enough. You need to win.

The top teams have belief.

In the Argentina vs England game, even with 14 vs 15 men I don't think the Argentinians believed they would win and as a consequence they shot themselves in the foot.

Did I miss something?? Steve Hansen is far far to good a coach to have taken on the joy of coaching Sean Lamont and Nick De Luca as a centre pairing. You may mean Frank Hadden. A good man, if a fairly average international coach.

But thank you for the gist of your thread. We are improving and doing the right things. We have a good 1st XV with a little bit of depth in a few positions (although crucially not all). We even have a few players good enough to interest Saracens....

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Post by funnyExiledScot on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:07 am

....as for the rankings, they look right to me. Ireland are a better side than Australia at the moment, and I would expect Ireland to take 3rd place sooner rather than later.

The real question for me is how low can South Africa go. A terrible shame to see the proudest of proud rugby nations in the doldrums, but they have the firepower and potential to come back quickly.

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Post by beshocked on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:10 am

I meant Hadden yes. Scotland have benefitted from Saracens let's not forget. Sarries have got Maitland scoring tries now he's doing the same for Scotland.

Taking Taylor from Bedford and turning him into a Scotland international who played well in this year's 6 nations.

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