Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

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Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:17 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just John wrote:Looks a tough job for Ricciardo now at RB going forward. I imagine that smile will be permanently turned upside down, from next season.

Still think Hamilton can take many positives out of this season, even if he gets pipped to the title. He won the qualifying head to head & in race pace, the gap between himself & Nico is still sizeable. He's also strengthened his legacy by surpassing Prost in total wins & is now only eight poles behind Schumacher. Even yesterday, Verstappen pretty much schooled everybody, apart from a faultless Hamilton, which just showcases the class of Lewis.

Its a real shame as those 3 engine failures have effectively cost him the title. The only DNF Rosberg has suffered was when they took each other out on the first lap in Spain.

Suppose you could say Lewis should have done better in Singapore and Azerbaijan, but the fact remains that with better reliability, Lewis would be looking at a 4th title.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Just John on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:41 am

Rosberg champion

Depressing

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:43 am

Can't knock Rosberg for bottle. as I say year on year every WDC is impressive regardless of circumstance.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:44 am

Farcical last few laps but great drama.

And saw the issue with backing up. Lewis kept giving Nico a tow and DRS. Vettel never got close enough and nobody was going to have a divebomb on either Merc.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:46 am

Oh the vagaries of F1. I really don't get why questions asked about Hamilton's tactics. He was gunning for the world championship so what did Mercedes and Rosberg expect him to do? The manufacturers championship was in the bag long ago so Mercedes were going to lose what? Another 1-2 whilst Hamilton had a world title at stake. Heck Schumacher used to drive his world title rivals off the road in the last race of the championship.

Rant over and well done to Nico Rosberg. Blown engine when Hamilton led earlier in the season was the killer.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:48 am

Eh, if I were Toto I would've laid down the law pre race that ****ing around will have consequences. still might for next year behind closed doors but I doubt it.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:53 am

GSC wrote:Eh, if I were Toto I would've laid down the law pre race that ****ing around will have consequences. still might for next year behind closed doors but I doubt it.

End of the day the world title was on the line. They weren't racing for a bag of sweeties.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Nov 28, 2016 1:57 am

Wow - wrong again I am...

By Abu Dhabi standards that was quite a race.

Congrats to Rosberg - he drove well under some pretty intense pressure, sandwiched between Hamilton and Vettel. Also fended off a challenge by Verstappen. He's had more luck with reliability than Hamilton, but he's done what he needed to do and showed some real mental toughness when it counted. Performance only spoiled by his whining to the team to let him past Lewis. FFS LEARN TO OVERTAKE, BOY!

Commiserations to Lewis. He did absolutely everything he could and played a high stakes game by slowing the race down, to allow Vettel and Verstappen to catch up. A valiant effort this season, but was just too heavily handicapped by his car problems. Annoyed with Mercedes though for their instructions to Lewis. They're supposed to be allowed to race and if Lewis was going too slow for Rosberg's liking, why the hell didn't he just overtake?

Good race for Vettel...I don't think I've ever cheered for him so hard (or at all, come to think of it). Just a shame his tyres ran out of grip at the end. Decent finish for Kimi too.

Good comeback by Max after his spin. Like Vettel, just a shame his race strategy didn't quite give him the tools to get past Rosberg. Relatively uneventful race for Ricciardo, but another good points finish.

Both cars in the points for Force India again...but yet again I found myself wondering why they have such long stints. Those cars have the pace to finish 4th to 6th...but time after time they lose places at the end of races as their tyres lose grip.

Nice to see Massa finish in the points in his last race...shame the same couldn't be said of Button, but I think he brought that suspension failure on himself, hitting that kerb so hard.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by dyrewolfe on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:00 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
GSC wrote:Eh, if I were Toto I would've laid down the law pre race that ****ing around will have consequences. still might for next year behind closed doors but I doubt it.

End of the day the world title was on the line. They weren't racing for a bag of sweeties.


Quite right. Toto keeps saying they are allowed to race. If Nico wasn't happy with Lewis' pace, he should have damned well got past him. Its not like Lewis would have risked a collision as it would only benefit Nico.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by banbrotam on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:00 am

GSC wrote:Eh, if I were Toto I would've laid down the law pre race that ****ing around will have consequences. still might for next year behind closed doors but I doubt it.


What? Sack Hamilton, when next years bound to be more competitive? Because of course we've witnessed how great Rosberg is when it does get competitive, ie Monaco and Brazil Rolling Eyes

Dont think Toto's into commercially committing suicide

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:04 am

Please point out where I said the word sack.

Cuts both ways. if Nico took Lewis out at turn 1 I'd have gone to get a bag of popcorn for this forum.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:06 am

GSC wrote:Please point out where I said the word sack.

Cuts both ways. if Nico took Lewis out at turn 1 I'd have gone to get a bag of popcorn for this forum.

A vast difference between committing the Schumacher Manoeuvre compared to backing a car up. One takes the other car out of the race whilst the other doesn't.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:07 am

EJ talking some sense for a change.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Just John on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:09 am

dyrewolfe wrote: his whining to the team to let him past Lewis. FFS LEARN TO OVERTAKE, BOY!

Yeah, embarrassing radio. If he's too slow, then overtake yourself. Still hasn't overtaken Lewis during there Mercedes stint. Astonishing. Lewis wins both qualifying & race head to heads too. Says everything.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by banbrotam on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:09 am

GSC wrote:Please point out where I said the word sack.

Cuts both ways. if Nico took Lewis out at turn 1 I'd have gone to get a bag of popcorn for this forum.

Laugh Laugh Laugh Because of course MM getting zero points is the same as only getting thirty seven

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by nathan on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:13 am

Hamilton completely right to tell his team where to go. Mercedes shouldn't be getting involved in deciding the title. It's this sort of thing that puts fans off. We want entertainment.

Rosberg did what he needed to and deserves the title.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by McLaren on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:24 am

nathan wrote:Hamilton completely right to tell his team where to go. Mercedes shouldn't be getting involved in deciding the title. It's this sort of thing that puts fans off. We want entertainment.

Rosberg did what he needed to and deserves the title.


Hamilton was well within his rights to back Rosberg into the RB's and Ferrari's but he didn't do it in the smartest way he could have. He should have used the fact he was the teams lead driver and therefore had the ability to box first to engineer an undercut opportunity (on a track where it didn't really exist) for Kimi and Ricciardo. He could have really backed things up for 2 to 3 laps after the RB's and Ferrari had pitted (at either or both windows) and ensured that Rosberg and possibly himself came out behind them. This way it would have come down to which Merc could fight back through the podium.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by owen10ozzy on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:25 am

Deserves; use that word loosely. Credit to him for taking advantage of the moments Lewis wasn't around be it his own or team mistakes..and anyone to be fair who puts that much of their life into achieving anything deserves huge credit.

That being said, most certainly one of the least impressive champions in recent times if not in the all time list..in a far superior car to the rest of the grid he still required a lot of luck to pull out a title from a man who as Just John mentioned, out qualified him and out won him in races completed.

Congrats Nico for achieving a career dream, that's always nice to see. Question moving forward...do we see Hamilton in that seat next year/2018? Or will he be in a certain red car or perhaps a return McClaren.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by McLaren on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:40 am

Owen

But what does it say about Hamilton, or indeed Rosberg, that in the last two dominant era's Schumi and Vettel didn't loose a WC to the guy in the same car?


Is Rosberg superior to Rubens and Webber?
Were Schumi and Vettel better able to take advantage of the class leading car than Hamilton?

Rubens obviously wasn't allowed a crack at Schumi so that does change the question slightly but Vettel may not be a "better" driver than Hamilton but is he better at beating a weaker teammate?
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:47 am

Probably time to give Nico a bit of credit.

Lewis won it with 3 races to go last year, yes hes had failures but Nicos raised his game (and Lewis probably dropped his a bit, certainly he gave away a lot of free points through poor starts).
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Fernando on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:48 am

Well atleast it was entertaining can't blame Lewis for trying to back him up ignoring his team may be an issue considering they said on the grid if he tries it he'll be in trouble or box Nico for an undercut if early on, Suspect Vettel could of got past Nico if he wanted.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:50 am

GSC wrote:Probably time to give Nico a bit of credit.

Lewis won it with 3 races to go last year, yes hes had failures but Nicos raised his game (and Lewis probably dropped his a bit, certainly he gave away a lot of free points through poor starts).

Well put it thisway. Give me a bet now on who will win another world title in the future between Hamilton and Rosberg and my money would go on Hamilton without hesitation. The big break for Nico was when Hamilton's engine blew (in Malaysia wasn't it) when he was nailed on cert to win the race. If reliability in that race had held out he'd have won the title even with the dips you mention.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:51 am

Eh, he never really got close enough on the straights, the 2nd straight you have to be really close to make it work on the outside.

Maybe he couldve tried a lunge, but Vettels been in the same situation.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:52 am

I'd be with you on next year Craig. But its completely irrelevant to today and this year.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:53 am

Anyhow, for the 3rd year in a row, hopefully RB and Ferrari join the party next year for F1s sakes.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:55 am

GSC wrote:I'd be with you on next year Craig. But its completely irrelevant to today and this year.

Not really. It is just how I see them in terms of driving talent.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Just John on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:56 am

My money is on Verstappen next year. Aero formula.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 2:57 am

Even over the career its 3-1 to Lewis.

But 1-0 this year to Nico. And today thats all either will care about. If the former makes you feel better enjoy it though.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:00 am

GSC wrote:Even over the career its 3-1 to Lewis.

But 1-0 this year to Nico. And today thats all either will care about. If the former makes you feel better enjoy it though.

It doesn't bother me - not sure why you'd think it would. Nico is world champion - congratulations to him and nobody can ever take that away from him but a few years down the line when he retires I don't think he'll be seen as an all-time great.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:02 am

Now you're just building a strawman argument. Nobodys arguing hes an all time great.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:07 am

GSC wrote:Now you're just building a strawman argument. Nobodys arguing hes an all time great.

No the point I am making is that as far as talent goes he measures low on the list of world title drivers in my memory.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:11 am

And I'm saying that is completely irrelevant
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Just John on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:13 am

Zzzzzz

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:14 am

GSC wrote:And I'm saying that is completely irrelevant

It is in the context that he is a world champion but in terms of where he'll be ranked in lists of world F1 champions then it is relevant.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:17 am

Who cares?
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:21 am

Hard for some people to accept that Nico is currently the best driver in the world
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:22 am

GSC wrote:Who cares?

Well it is a subject to care about. I, and I think most people, prefer world champions to be exciting in over-taking, having the upper hand in genuine racing and such-like to be world champion. Unfortunately, that isn't Nico.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:24 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Hard for some people to accept that Nico is currently the best driver in the world

But he isn't though. He drives by far the fastest car on the grid and lucked out on the reliability front. If that hadn't happened I have no doubts he would not have won the world title.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Fernando on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:28 am

Go get some sleep Craig Laugh Can't believe you went for that one after all these years Doh

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:33 am

Fernando wrote:Go get some sleep Craig Laugh Can't believe you went for that one after all these years Doh

It is true though. If you can list me these bulldozing drives through the field he has made, the overtakes on Hamilton, the sparkling drives etc then I am all ears. Point being if Verstappen (say for example) had been in the Mercedes instead of Rosberg I'd bet the win would have been far more comprehensive. Point is he may float some people's boats but not mine. Congrats to him again by the way as he will forever be a world champion but just not a memorable one.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:41 am

Anyways here's hoping for a much more open and exciting 2017 season with more teams in the mix for race wins and more competitive racing.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:53 am

Has to be said that Rosberg is the least deserving champion I can remember, wheel to wheel he's clearly second best, only bad luck for Lewis cost him the title.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:12 am

Give me Nico over Jensons WDC anyday
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:11 am

Let's be fair to Rosberg, he was good enough to take advantage of Hamilton's misfortunes, and beat him fair and square a few times. I guess it's the issue when one car is so dominant (to a degree that I'm not sure Schumacher or Vettel ever had quite so dominant a car) that reliability can - when it seems to only go one way as it did this season - be the ultimate difference in the championship.

John and I predicted that Hamilton would try backing up the field, and so it proved. Not surprised obviously, as I said before he had nothing to lose, and everything to gain potentially. Thought the radio transmissions were all rather pathetic, be them from Mercedes or from Rosberg, surely they cannot have expected Hamilton to do anything else? If the constructors championship had been on the line they may have had a point, but that was sewn up a long time ago... It did make for more entertaining viewing though:
- Mercedes: "Lewis, you're driving too slowly, we're in danger of losing the race."
- Hamilton: "nope, doing just fine, thanks."
Quite skillful I guess to be able to drive that much slower without offering a glimmer of an overtake, but all to no avail sadly.

Anyway, congrats Rosberg, he's certainly been the more consistent this year (I think they said on C4 that he always qualified in the front row?), and deserves his title.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:17 am

At the end of the day, Merc probably expect Lewis to do as he's instructed by the team. He works for them, not the other way round. The only way they could be fair to both drivers is to treat it like a normal race, Toto said as much.

I'd expect Merc to give him a slap on the wrist given how it all played out, but Toto and Niki seemed very unimpressed by that and his post race.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Mad for Chelsea on Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:38 am

I think if Merc genuinely expected that then they were being a bit silly, and not understanding what makes Hamilton the champion he is. It was his only chance of forcing the issue, and well within the rules of the sport.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:04 am

GSC wrote:At the end of the day, Merc probably expect Lewis to do as he's instructed by the team. He works for them, not the other way round. The only way they could be fair to both drivers is to treat it like a normal race, Toto said as much.

I'd expect Merc to give him a slap on the wrist given how it all played out, but Toto and Niki seemed very unimpressed by that and his post race.

As I see it, and I think every F1 fan agrees here, F1 needs more excitement, more wheel-to-wheel racing and such-like. We ain't going to get that if teams try telling drivers how to make a race less exciting for no reason. And lets be honest there was no reason. Mercedes won the manufacturers title a long time ago and they were guaranteed the drivers title as well so they should have sat back and said let the best man win instead of demeaning the sport by getting involved.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:17 am

Mad for Chelsea wrote:I think if Merc genuinely expected that then they were being a bit silly, and not understanding what makes Hamilton the champion he is. It was his only chance of forcing the issue, and well within the rules of the sport.
I imagine it was agreed beforehand. I understand why he did, not sure I would differently, but at the same time there are consequences for it. If the roles are reversed in future it may be Nico refuses to obey unlike Monaco this year
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:22 am

I think all team orders should be banned personally, if you're not good enough to win without them then you don't deserve to win.

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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:24 am

I know it isn't do-able and not feasible but at times like this I wish there was just one driver per team.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

Post by GSC on Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:31 am

Often think people genuinely get confused as to whether F1 is an individual or team sport. It's the latter.
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Re: Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

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