5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

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5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 3:39 pm

Also, considering mine and pretty much everybody's doubts Mane has been a fantastic signing.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 3:42 pm

Mane when he's motivated is a quality player, it's keeping him motivated for the whole season that could be the problem, United should have continued their pursuit of him instead of Mkhitaryan.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by westisbest on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 3:48 pm

Mane, hmm sadly can't forget the hatrick he scored against the villa 2 seasons ago.

Good player.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Ent on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 3:58 pm

Swansea need to sack Bradley asap.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by wisden on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 4:03 pm

yeah i agree, they look well and truly doomed

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Ent on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 4:35 pm

Game is essentially over and ibrahaimovic gets a stupid booking and will now miss arsenal game.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 4:36 pm

Pogba a yellow card away from a suspension too and is still on.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Ent on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 4:37 pm

At 3-1 up he'd be stupid to get a booking.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 4:51 pm

Shocking second half, about time we tried playing for the full 90 minutes instead of switching off, it's meant to be an entertainment business.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Afro on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 7:30 pm

Have been feeling that Liverpool have been typically overhyped this season, but today was a day that they actually fully deserve the praise coming their way. Great entertainment!

Will they win the league? Well they could. I think City, and even more so, Chelsea look better, so I don't think they will. But they will be challengers.
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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 7:59 pm

Afro wrote:Have been feeling that Liverpool have been typically overhyped this season, but today was a day that they actually fully deserve the praise coming their way. Great entertainment!

Will they win the league? Well they could. I think City, and even more so, Chelsea look better, so I don't think they will. But they will be challengers.

Liverpool's achilles heel is their defence - it'll cost them eventually
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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 8:20 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Afro wrote:Have been feeling that Liverpool have been typically overhyped this season, but today was a day that they actually fully deserve the praise coming their way. Great entertainment!

Will they win the league? Well they could. I think City, and even more so, Chelsea look better, so I don't think they will. But they will be challengers.

Liverpool's achilles heel is their defence - it'll cost them eventually

I agree that defence is the worst part of the side, but to be fair have only conceded three and four more than Man City and Arsenal respectively. Bearing in mind that Hull and Watford both got consolation goals.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 8:33 pm

Consolation goals are often a thing the better teams would want not to happen at all. I think Chelsea sorting their defence out is key to their title challenge and could be what wins them it cos all theee other teams are porous

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Afro on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 8:47 pm

My money is literally on Chelsea.

They have looked the best team I have seen, solid whilst tearing apart an Everton side that have been defensively sound up to now.

I can't believe the bookies have them as 3rd favourites still


Last edited by Afro on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:09 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Consolation goals are often a thing the better teams would want not to happen at all. I think Chelsea sorting their defence out is key to their title challenge and could be what wins them it cos all theee other teams are porous

I don't think Liverpool want them, Klopp seemed pretty annoyed about the one conceded today in the post-match interview. Just think Liverpool's defensive problems are slightly overstated.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Fernando on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:13 pm

Really?

Karius looks suspect (like De Gea when he 1st arrived)
Clyne is decent enough
Lovren goes up and down like a yo-yo
Matip looks reasonably solid
Milner is a CM playing LB because you don't have a good one.

Im not sure it's overstated really.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:21 pm

Fernando wrote:Really?

Karius looks suspect (like De Gea when he 1st arrived)
Clyne is decent enough
Lovren goes up and down like a yo-yo
Matip looks reasonably solid
Milner is a CM playing LB because you don't have a good one.

Im not sure it's overstated really.

I'm looking at it from the perspective of what has actually happened. Only conceded a few more goals than Arsenal whose defence has actually been lauded. The defence hasn't been keeping clean sheets but hasn't actually conceded much more than nearest rivals. When two of those goals were meaningless goals as well, it shows that perhaps the awful defence line is a little overstated. Not to say it's perfect but it hasn't been performing much worse than Manchester City or Arsenal's defence who haven't had the same scrutiny placed on their defences.

Milner may be a midfielder playing left back, but he's been really good so far, so it doesn't matter what FIFA classifies him as. That defence you lay out has also had maybe two, three games together? Lovren has missed a couple, Matip was injured early on in the season and Milner missed the opener and last week. Karius has only just had a run of games. Hard to judge them as a unit until they've had a decent amount of time together I feel.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:31 pm

Conceding more than one goal a game at this stage of the season is quite a lot as is conceding five more than Chelsea, it's a misleading stat to use.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:38 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Conceding more than one goal a game at this stage of the season is quite a lot as is conceding five more than Chelsea, it's a misleading stat to use.

Liverpool's defence isn't great, but it's not been performing much worse than Arsenal or Manchester City's is my point, but nobody is questioning their defences. Chelsea and Tottenham both have fantastic defences, Chelsea haven't conceded a goal for over a month, barely worth comparing.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:40 pm

It's performing significantly worse, four goals after 11 games is a lot, if it carries on at the same rate that's 14 goals over the cause of a season, there are 8 teams in the league who have conceded less.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:49 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It's performing significantly worse, four goals after 11 games is a lot, if it carries on at the same rate that's 14 goals over the cause of a season, there are 8 teams in the league who have conceded less.

I wouldn't say significantly worse at all. Prone to mistakes but not poor as has been made out in the media or on here. 

At the end of the day the system Klopp has Liverpool playing is never going to be defensively solid, it relies on taking risks and leaving lots of gaps.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 06 Nov 2016, 9:50 pm

You wouldn't though Crimey, it's why stats are a waste of time, those that use them are very selective.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Fernando on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 10:25 am

Jose suggesting Smalling & Shaw refused to play.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Scott is Back on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 10:27 am

Fernando wrote:Jose suggesting Smalling & Shaw refused to play.

Shaw needs to book his idea's up, i know he has had some bad injuries, but he could easily be the best left back in the country, but his heart doesnt seem to be in it.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 12:20 pm

That's terrible if true. I would hope he's suggesting they were uneasy with playing rather than refusing.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 12:42 pm

I've read what Jose said, and I have to say I like it. Praising those who were brave and committed, questioning those who may have been able to show more.

We should remember that some liked that Jose was taking on disruptive elements of the pampered Chelsea dressing room. He lost the battle, managers are often expendable, but Manchester United have been in such decline that this may be a battle he should be allowed to see through and win. Rid the club of a culture of excuses that has allowed them to flounder since Fergie left.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 2:00 pm

The problem Mourinho has at the moment is whether players have the same level of respect for him as they could do. Whilst in the past I think Mourinho wouldn't have a problem tackling players in a hard fashion and being ruthless see Ferguson in the past or even Klopp or Guardiola this season, that season at Chelsea was such a disaster and particularly the focus on him as a person as well as a manager he's struggling to impose his will in the same way.

Hypothetically speaking had Mourinho arrived after the 14/15 season or perhaps even after his stint at Real Madrid I think he would have been much more successful in getting the players to work for him, even when he is quite brutal in his assessments of players. Instead Manchester United have received a broken Mourinho who instead of looking strong, essentially looks a little crazy. Pushing Schweinsteiger out, being publicly critical of Luke Shaw (at least twice now) and even backing down on Rooney have not been viewed in the same way had they might of have done if another manager or Mourinho from the past was the one doing it.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Jermaine2015 on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:01 pm

Mourinho won't be losing anything by shipping out Smalling as he's truly awful. Shaw would be a mistake as he's capable of being as good as Alaba Still think Jones has all the attributes to become a superb CB.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:10 pm


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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Just John on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:15 pm

Walcott as England's leading figure in that graphic. depressing state of the national side right there

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 3:28 pm

Happy as a Liverpool fan as Coutinho, Firmino and Mane are all in there. Coutinho is also best in the Premier League which says a lot about how well he's performing this year.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Ent on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 4:27 pm

Jermaine2015 wrote:Mourinho won't be losing anything by shipping out Smalling as he's truly awful. Shaw would be a mistake as he's capable of being as good as Alaba Still think Jones has all the attributes to become a superb CB.

Jones is absolutely brutal.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Fernando on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 4:42 pm

Could be a good anchorman beside Pognonce though. It was his best position at Blackburn.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by GSC on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 6:47 pm

Phil Jones has 0 awareness. He'll never be a top player.
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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 6:57 pm

He needs a coach who invests in him specifically. He needs a club with lower expectations too. Allardyce for him again would have been amazing. Got taken when he was too raw and then shafted about

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by GSC on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 7:05 pm

He'll never be more than your typical backs against the wall English defender.
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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 7:08 pm

Theres nothing wrong with being a good backs to the wall defender. Or a reliable Jagielka/Cahill type, players who have achieved a lot still.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 07 Nov 2016, 7:23 pm

not sure we shafted him about, his injuries are the main reason he hasn't had a run in the team

if he had stayed fit he would have got the time in the team

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Jermaine2015 on Tue 08 Nov 2016, 2:46 pm

I think you guys are too harsh on Phil Jones TBH. Rolled back a few years ago a certain Jerome Boateng played for Manchester City and by all accounts he was truly woeful. Now roll forward 4/5 years and Boateng is considered one of the best CBs in the world(not by me might I add).

Now judging the body structure of Jones, he's very similar to Boateng. Tall, strong and very quick. Someone like mourinho should be able to improve his game 10 fold. Jones' bravery is probably second to none.

Fundamentally Jones has the tools to become a great defender. Jones needs a manager to trust him. Forgot the comical moments that can happen to anyone.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 9:46 am

Chris Smalling has a broken toe, out for a month.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Fernando on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:26 am

I think Jose owes someone an apology Laugh

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by GSC on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:40 am

Unless Jones engages his brain he peaked years ago.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 11:42 am

Jose will have listened to his medical team. I'm surprised a broken toe is a month!

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Jermaine2015 on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 2:10 pm

GSC wrote:Unless Jones engages his brain he peaked years ago.

He's 24, most CBS don't peak until the reach 30. Mourinho will revive Jones' career.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Ent on Fri 11 Nov 2016, 2:31 pm

He won't, he's a terrible player.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by nadeem2099 on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:12 am

Phil Jones would not make my list of top 20 current english centre backs.
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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:14 am

nadeem2099 wrote:Phil Jones would not make my list of top 20 current english centre backs.

Go on then.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by nadeem2099 on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:24 am

Ok top 20 is pushing it but definitely not in my top 15. In no particular order, centre backs that are better than Phillip Jones

Chris Smalling
Gary Cahill
John Terry
Phil Jagielka
Ryan Shawcross
Scott Dann
John Stones
Micah Richards
Curtis Davies
Michael Dawson
James Tomkins
Michael Keane
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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by Crimey on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 11:27 am

I'm not sure Michael Dawson is better than Phil Jones and Micah Richards is pushing it. The problem with Jones is it's really hard to judge because he's played so little football in recent years.

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

Post by westisbest on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 12:41 pm

As a Villa fan have to say Richards has been very poor.
Cb or rb

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Re: 5000-1 - The 2016/17 Premier League thread

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