Dragons vs Leinster

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Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 12:25 pm

Getting these in early at the moment, as I start a new job in a couple of weeks and so will seldom be on here in the days.

Dragons coming off a good performance and win against Edinburgh. Leinster will be smarting after a defeat against Scarlets in which, even with 14 men, they looked the better side for long periods.

I have a bad feeling that we will see rotation from us and it will not be our strongest side. It could end up in a heavy defeat, but I suppose with two very important fixtures against Worcester in December, and more of emphasis on winning home games, keeping our squad fresh may not be too bad an idea.
Sides

Sides:

Dragons

Price
Dee
Harris
Crosswell
Landman
Evans (c)
Cudd
Keddie

Knoyle
O'Brien
Warren
Dixon
Morgan
Howard
Meyer

Leinster

Dooley
Tracy
Bent
Molony
Triggs
Ruddock
Leavy
Conan

McGrath
Carbery
Nacewa
Reid
O'Loughlin
Byrne
Kirchner


Last edited by GavinDragon on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 12:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by dragon4life on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 3:51 pm

I like the look of the backline but would have Hewitt in over Prydie, I like the look of the pack apart from TH where I wouldn't have Mitchell as I don't rate him at all and would have Fairbrother in instead. I'd also maybe have Griffiths in who was quality against Edinburgh

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 3:59 pm

dragon4life wrote:I like the look of the backline but would have Hewitt in over Prydie, I like the look of the pack apart from TH where I wouldn't have Mitchell as I don't rate him at all and would have Fairbrother in instead. I'd also maybe have Griffiths in who was quality against Edinburgh

That is not my preferred xv, but I do think there will be changes given the Worcester and Blues fixtures.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 5:02 pm

How likely is that Landman will travel, seeing as he's just become a dad?


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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 5:04 pm

Good point, I suppose he is entitled to two weeks paternity, whether he takes it or not is another matter.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 5:33 pm

I see he's given his son a Welsh middle name OK

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 6:10 am

Yes, he adds to the stock of big WQ forwards in future years....too bad he will come through the Blues' system as Rynard lives in Cardiff (assuming he stays in Wales, which I think he will)

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Thu 01 Dec 2016, 12:02 pm

Quite a few injuries for us going into this. Just hope we can keep it respectable

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 12:53 pm

Updated with sides.

Not bad side from us considering rotation. Injuries have been kind to us so far this year (touch wood).

I still expect Leinster to have too much firepower across the backline for us to handle.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by munkian on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:08 pm

Aye, not a bad side, great to see Dee and Landman back- any idea of reserves ?
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:13 pm

Buckley, Davies, Fairbrother, Hill, Thomas, Pretorius, GR Jones, Prydie

So we are OK as long as AOB stays on field.

Shows that in certain positions we have some depth (well relative depth in as much as we don't lose anything when swapping players)

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by munkian on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:16 pm

Ah, Prydie and Hill back too, tidy.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Stone Motif on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:37 pm

GavinDragon wrote:Buckley, Davies, Fairbrother, Hill, Thomas, Pretorius, GR Jones, Prydie

So we are OK as long as AOB stays on field.

Shows that in certain positions we have some depth (well relative depth in as much as we don't lose anything when swapping players)

What in the blue hell is the point of having Hill on the bench and starting a utility 4/6/8?
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:39 pm

In fairness to Crossy, he has been playing very well and has disrupted alot of opposition ball in the lineout.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:41 pm

Maybe we are keeping Hill back for the Worcester fixtures?

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Stone Motif on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 1:49 pm

Maybe, if you are writing off this fixture why not chuck out the Development team.

Crosswell is a fine player but you could have started him at 6 or 8.
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:23 pm

That's an easily beatable Leinster team. McGrath, Carberry, Nacewa and Kirchener are the only first choice squad players there. Rest are a Leinster 'A' lineup.

Bent isn't a TH, so will struggle, he is passable as a depth option at LH at pro12 level but isn't a legit TH option even in emergencies.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by munkian on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 2:40 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:That's an easily beatable Leinster team.  McGrath, Carberry, Nacewa and Kirchener are the only first choice squad players there.  Rest are a Leinster 'A' lineup.

Bent isn't a TH, so will struggle, he is passable as a depth option at LH at pro12 level but isn't a legit TH option even in emergencies.

Well...poopie, you've only gone and jinxed it mad
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by wolfball on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 7:51 pm

That's the sort of finishing Ireland needs more of. Great start from Leinster.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by glamorganalun on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:12 pm

Dragons defence is a joke in this game

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Griff on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:16 pm

Dragons playing like it's 7s rugby. No not free flowing running rugby, but like they've got 15 players and we've got 7

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by glamorganalun on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:22 pm

Knoyle kicking every ball away.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Stone Motif on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:23 pm

Keddie miles off. Bakeresque
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Stone Motif on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:25 pm

glamorganalun wrote:Knoyle kicking every ball away.

Box kick is the safest exit
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by glamorganalun on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:34 pm

Stone Motif wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:Knoyle kicking every ball away.

Box kick is the safest exit

Not when the tackling is weak and shipping trys

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by glamorganalun on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:37 pm

I spoke too soon another try from a Knyole kick and poor tackling.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Stone Motif on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:52 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:Knoyle kicking every ball away.

Box kick is the safest exit

Not when the tackling is weak and shipping trys

Er, especially when the tackling is weak and shipping tries, passing to ten to clear concedes distance if not the turnover
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by glamorganalun on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:52 pm

The one positive for the Dragons is the scrum and to a lesser extent the line out but the defence from the backs has been poor.

Finally a decent try when they did not kick it away.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Stone Motif on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 8:52 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
Stone Motif wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:Knoyle kicking every ball away.

Box kick is the safest exit

Not when the tackling is weak and shipping trys

Er, especially when the tackling is weak and shipping tries, passing to ten to clear concedes distance if not the turnover
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by glamorganalun on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 9:11 pm

Some great play by the Dragons shame they did not start like this, all too late.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Griff on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 9:20 pm

glamorganalun wrote:Some great play by the Dragons shame they did not start like this, all too late.

We're awesome really. Just can't be arsed Smile

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 9:33 pm

Job done. Well done Leinster. Nice to have the players clap us supporters at the end. Not a great turnout tonight.

Conan very good and Leavy did well.

Carbery was mediocre in my view, too flighty and wanting to have a go every time and running into tackles. He will need to up his game if he's starting in European Cup.

Roll on Northampton in Lansdowne - looking forward to it.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by glamorganalun on Sat 03 Dec 2016, 9:34 pm

Griff wrote:
glamorganalun wrote:Some great play by the Dragons shame they did not start like this, all too late.

We're awesome really. Just can't be arsed Smile

It certainly looked like it in the first half, what a change in the second half. If the Dragons started like they finished it may have been a great game.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 04 Dec 2016, 9:33 am

glamorganalun wrote:Dragons defence is a joke in this game

Have to agree, clearly they need to do a lot of tackling practice in the next training session!

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by uncle_nigel on Sun 04 Dec 2016, 9:35 am

Yesterday Tavis Knoyle reiterated for me that he's one of the worst 9s in Britain & Ireland and also reiterated what a terrible signing it was. It was just like watching Lloyd Williams.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by GavinDragon on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 6:06 am

My tuppence:-

Positives

Scrum
Defensive Lineout
The fact we didn't give up (it could have been 50 points otherwise, although I do think Lenister turned off when they had the BP)

Negatives

Poor start - the line speed in the first half was atrocious, we really did stand off Leinster and allow them to run at us, which exposed us for pace out wide.
Poor kicking - one major difference between the two teams was the accuracy of the kicking. Each one of theirs was contestable, most of ours were long and straight to the Leinster back three which allowed them to run it back at us.
Not getting the LBP - had a couple of opportunities which we didn't take.

I watched Worcester yesterday. Their scrum looks strong, but we can really put them under pressure at the lineout with how Nick Crosswell has been playing - he has taken a lot off opposition's lineout ball recently.

They are quite slow around the breakdown so I'd like to see Sarel start as we could get some gains there.

Cooper Vuna is their big threat out wide. We will have to marshal him well.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by dragon999 on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 12:12 pm

worcester will not field their prem side on saturday

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 1:14 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Job done. Well done Leinster.  Nice to have the players clap us supporters at the end.  Not a great turnout tonight.

Conan very good and Leavy did well.

Carbery was mediocre in my view, too flighty and wanting to have a go every time and running into tackles.  He will need to up his game if he's starting in European Cup.

Roll on Northampton in Lansdowne - looking forward to it.


Carberry appeared to be pulled relatively quickly once the TBP was secured. Probably an indication that JS won't be seen in the next couple of games. Ross Byrne was adequate at best when he came on. Yet again, we get into a strong position and put the handbrake on, Cullen will get burnt by this ploy yet this season.

Bent is not a TH. Rest of the pack played quite well, lineout needs to be worked on.

Was great to see offloading in the game and also pace in the backline. The backline was over-eager at times, but having pace. Adam Byrne is now what, 5 tries so far this season, that lad picks some nice lines. Could be a decent pro12 prospect.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by rodders on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 1:30 pm

Super second try by Leinster, the Dragons were awful though.

Incredible depth Leinster have in the back row, to be missing Heaslip, O'Brien and the best of the lot JDV and still put out such a strong back row is really impressive.

Ruddock to Ulster would be a great move Smile
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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by asoreleftshoulder on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 1:57 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Job done. Well done Leinster.  Nice to have the players clap us supporters at the end.  Not a great turnout tonight.

Conan very good and Leavy did well.

Carbery was mediocre in my view, too flighty and wanting to have a go every time and running into tackles.  He will need to up his game if he's starting in European Cup.

Roll on Northampton in Lansdowne - looking forward to it.


Carberry appeared to be pulled relatively quickly once the TBP was secured. Probably an indication that JS won't be seen in the next couple of games. Ross Byrne was adequate at best when he came on.  Yet again, we get into a strong position and put the handbrake on, Cullen will get burnt by this ploy yet this season.

Bent is not a TH.  Rest of the pack played quite well, lineout needs to be worked on.

Was great to see offloading in the game and also pace in the backline.  The backline was over-eager at times, but having pace.  Adam Byrne is now what, 5 tries so far this season, that lad picks some nice lines.  Could be a decent pro12 prospect.

Bent pulled out before kick off,Loughman was at Th.Our pack was good in open play but lineout wobbles have been a common theme this season.It's one area we really need to work on.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 3:40 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Job done. Well done Leinster.  Nice to have the players clap us supporters at the end.  Not a great turnout tonight.

Conan very good and Leavy did well.

Carbery was mediocre in my view, too flighty and wanting to have a go every time and running into tackles.  He will need to up his game if he's starting in European Cup.

Roll on Northampton in Lansdowne - looking forward to it.


Carberry appeared to be pulled relatively quickly once the TBP was secured. Probably an indication that JS won't be seen in the next couple of games. Ross Byrne was adequate at best when he came on.  Yet again, we get into a strong position and put the handbrake on, Cullen will get burnt by this ploy yet this season.

Bent is not a TH.  Rest of the pack played quite well, lineout needs to be worked on.

Was great to see offloading in the game and also pace in the backline.  The backline was over-eager at times, but having pace.  Adam Byrne is now what, 5 tries so far this season, that lad picks some nice lines.  Could be a decent pro12 prospect.

Bent pulled out before kick off,Loughman was at Th.Our pack was good in open play but lineout wobbles have been a common theme this season.It's one area we really need to work on.

Things become a little clearer through the haze now, must have had 6-7 too many hot whiskies (purely for medicinal purposes of course) prior to the game. Poor Loughman lad was getting my Bent constructive criticisms in my fever Whistle

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 3:52 pm

rodders wrote:Super second try by Leinster, the Dragons were awful though.  

Incredible depth Leinster have in the back row, to be missing Heaslip, O'Brien and the best of the lot JDV and still put out such a strong back row is really impressive.

Ruddock to Ulster would be a great move Smile

That move should have happened 3 seasons ago. Ireland is using JDV, Jordi, Leavy, SOB and Heaslip all from one team when only 3 can get the proper big game experience. Then you've got Ruddock, Conan, Dom Ryan. Kevin McL was a forced retirement and is barely an after-thought on the depth chart. What's the chance of us getting any further promising lads in the academy game time if there are 8 HCup level options already in the senior squad.

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 05 Dec 2016, 4:53 pm

2nd try was class

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2KA5Y3XUeU

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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by St John The Enforcer on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 10:29 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
rodders wrote:

Ruddock to Ulster would be a great move Smile

That move should have happened 3 seasons ago. Ireland is using JDV, Jordi, Leavy, SOB and Heaslip all from one team when only 3 can get the proper big game experience. Then you've got Ruddock, Conan, Dom Ryan.  Kevin McL was a forced retirement and is barely an after-thought on the depth chart.  What's the chance of us getting any further promising lads in the academy game time if there are 8 HCup level options already in the senior squad.

Yes. Ruddock to Ulster 3 seasons ago would have been inspired.

It would have allowed us to bring through young players like Conan, Leavy and Josh van der flier who never got a look in because Ruddock, Heaslip, Kevin McL Dom Ryan and SOB were ahead of them. Who knows? Some of them could have been internationals by now.

It would have stopped Ulster bringing through talented youngsters like Frankie Taggert and Lorcan Dow though.

Where would they be without players like that getting game time?


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Re: Dragons vs Leinster

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 06 Dec 2016, 2:12 pm

St John The Enforcer wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
rodders wrote:

Ruddock to Ulster would be a great move Smile

That move should have happened 3 seasons ago. Ireland is using JDV, Jordi, Leavy, SOB and Heaslip all from one team when only 3 can get the proper big game experience. Then you've got Ruddock, Conan, Dom Ryan.  Kevin McL was a forced retirement and is barely an after-thought on the depth chart.  What's the chance of us getting any further promising lads in the academy game time if there are 8 HCup level options already in the senior squad.

Yes. Ruddock to Ulster 3 seasons ago would have been inspired.

It would have allowed us to bring through young players like Conan, Leavy and Josh van der flier who never got a look in because Ruddock, Heaslip, Kevin McL Dom Ryan and SOB were ahead of them. Who knows? Some of them could have been internationals by now.

It would have stopped Ulster bringing through talented youngsters like Frankie Taggert and Lorcan Dow though.

Where would they be without players like that getting game time?


Rolling Eyes
Probably turning to the academy pipeline sooner, giving younger lads an earlier opportunity, leaving them with more experience by now.

Ruddock to Ulster back then would have given game time earlier to Jordi, had VDF getting experience sooner and had Leavy more experience also.
Money is always tight, we have great depth in the backrow and it's an area of attrition but to my mind there is too much cash wrapped up in Ruddock/Heaslip/SOB at the premium end, Jordi/Dom at the pro12 value while VDF/Leavy are on relatively valuable contracts for the club.
A Ruddock move back then would probably have saved Ulster from going abroad for backrow cover, an extra irishman in the ranks possibly ensure rotation and minutes monitoring by irfu, which would give openings for younger lads to come through to an extent. Not to mention gilsenan moving because of the backlog in front, similar with Marshall who was a nice option and even flankers trying to switch to being centres in the academy because of the backlog in recent years also.

Leinster were holding on to too many front row options also, we lost Marty Moore cause he saw Ross in front and furlong coming up behind. Having 3 TH test options in a single team isn't smart. Neither still is having McGrath and Healy together.

As a Leinsterfan it's be to my sides advantage but as an Irishman it feels like we're slipping up.

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