Most overrated current international player.

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Post by Maine man on Wed 30 Nov 2016, 9:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

Just a bit of fun. Who do people think is the most overrated player currently. For me it's Will Skelton. Just don't see what he adds to the aussie team.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:28 pm

eirebilly wrote:Not being diplomatic there guns but trying to keep the debate honest. I cannot remember Hartley being red carded for England.

I also do not believe he is a liability for the Lions. I like his niggly side, he plays so much better when he is niggly than when he trying to stay on the good side of a ref. As I said, his history does mean that he is penalised more as referees have him under a microscope.

A citing and a ban is pretty much the same thing as a red card though isnt it? He was banned for a game in the six nations v Ireland for biting for example. It was deemed a red card offence.

He missed the last Lions tour because he told a ref to F off. Bans in club games count for international games too.

His history just means he is a dirty player. All you have to do to not be "under a refs microscope" is not be dirty. Its not that hard. Most of his bans were very avoidable if you arent hot headed. The problem is he is.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:33 pm

So he's a better player than best but hot headed? For his club. Glad we got to the bottom of it. I used to really rate robbie must or when he played for boro as he got less red cards than Roy Keane.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So he's a better player than best but hot headed? For his club. Glad we got to the bottom of it. I used to really rate robbie must or when he played for boro as he got less red cards than Roy Keane.

No I think Hartley is fairly over rated. I dont think he would make the Ireland bench.

Roy Keane would have been a far better player if he wasn't so hot headed. There is nothing wrong with being aggressive in sport but Keane was emotionally unstable and that never really did him any good. Same with Hartley.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:42 pm

Fair play Billy, youre spot on about Hartley.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:43 pm

You're right in a way he'd be your starter! Jokes aside purely on his temperament I'm a summing and not a bit on how he's a top player. Hey whatever you need to pick at to push forward best.

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Post by eirebilly on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:47 pm

Confused here guns, I thought you would idolise Hartley for calling Barnes a feicing cheat Wink
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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:48 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You're right in a way he'd be your starter! Jokes aside purely on his temperament I'm a summing and not a bit on how he's a top player. Hey whatever you need to pick at to push forward best.

Not a chance. The Ireland squad is way too disciplined for players like Hartley. He wouldnt have a hope.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:49 pm

eirebilly wrote:Confused here guns, I thought you would idolise Hartley for calling Barnes a feicing cheat Wink

Haha I thought it was hilarious alright albeit typically dumb by Hartley.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 12:55 pm

Ah right. So as long as we ignore Hartley for being a thug. Ignore George for happening to be English and against Hartley yeah I'd agree that best isn't over rated (and truly is the 2nd best in the world). We have a world where best is unquestionably the best in the nh and Ross Ford as better than George. This is why I feel there's a bit of bias towards best.

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Post by R!skysports on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 1:06 pm

I think there is a lot of hookers who are close in ability and it is easy to argue the toss each way.

I think Best is playing very well and certainly is a contender for best in NH. hartley, I actually think has been a little below par this year (in Internationals) but would not say he has been even close to poor.

Not sure we can say much about George, as often too early to say when coming on as a Sub against tired teams. He has potential and could be proven to be great - just a little premature for me personally

Ross Ford - Solid, but not the best in the NH - but can play on occasion up there

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Post by True Raven on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 9:53 pm

eirebilly wrote:Not being diplomatic there guns but trying to keep the debate honest. I cannot remember Hartley being red carded for England.

I also do not believe he is a liability for the Lions. I like his niggly side, he plays so much better when he is niggly than when he trying to stay on the good side of a ref. As I said, his history does mean that he is penalised more as referees have him under a microscope.

Any player who has had a years worth of bans is definitely a liability.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 7:25 am

But as a player, superior to best.

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Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 7:32 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:But as a player, superior to best.

I'd agree with that, certainly in the skills required to be a hooker. I do think Best is a little stronger in the loose though.

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Post by True Raven on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 7:58 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:But as a player, superior to best.

Yeah I'd agree but slightly. However, because of Hartleys temperament I'd choose Best as the lions 2

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 8:02 am

I'd rather have the quality but this an over rated thread and I think after seeing best placed as 2nd to coles by some he ticks the box most.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 9:12 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:But as a player, superior to best.

Discipline is part of being a rugby player. In any case discipline aside not sure what the fuss is about re Hartely. Best is a far more valuable asset to Ireland. Hartley looks a little over weight and plods around a bit to me. What is so good about him? He is a good player but not a great player in international terms.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 9:30 am

Neither are greats in goat terms.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 9:35 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Neither are greats in goat terms.

Maybe not but I'm convinced that Best is Ireland's greatest ever hooker and that's not bad at all.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 9:38 am

It's pretty good.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 9:49 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's pretty good.

Fair enough. What will we argue about?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 06 Jan 2017, 9:57 am

Errrrrr. We need a bold Welsh claim to get us back on topic I feel.

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Post by TightHEAD on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 10:47 am

AWJ
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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:06 pm

Courtenay Lawes been mentioned?

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Post by munkian on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:08 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Courtenay Lawes been mentioned?

BUT HE HAZ MAD ENFORCER SKILLZ FAM !
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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:12 pm

HE IZ DE BOLLICIN' BIZ, sure enough munk!


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Post by munkian on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:HE IZ DE BOLLICIN' BIZ, sure enough munk!


FLAT TRACK BULLY-BOI
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:22 pm

Reading this and wondering why the poor spelling for effect?

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:29 pm

Hard lads love not finishing their words either in speech or in print, 7.

You know, the rappers, innit (all colours lest I be accused of racism). Just a little caricature fun on a cold Wednesday afternoon.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:37 pm

Ah right. Thanks as I did read it as racist.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:09 pm

Pity that people are so ready to read that in just about anything. I blame the media.

Culture is culture and language is a way of having fun with culture. Let's laugh rather than always frown; after all, do the people who seem to enjoy Mrs Brown (can't fathom why myself) not get half their fun from just how these people use language?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:15 pm

I think we both know that munkian doesn't write that if Lawes is white. Own it if you're going to do it.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:17 pm

No. No, I don't know that, &. To suggest I do know that is to assume I believe him to be a racist. I've never personally had any reason to regard munk as racist.

Is Munkian racist?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:19 pm

I suppose you're correct all these rugby hard men and mthis sort of thing is written about all of them right.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:20 pm

And to answer your question I think what he wrote was racist.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I suppose you're correct all these rugby hard men and mthis sort of thing is written about all of them right.

Well I know that I regard the hard man persona, and kinda have fun with it, mostly on the ideas and caricatures of 'Eastender' Cockney or Oliver Twist vagabonds.  
Rough, tough, hard as nails, nurtured on the street gov'nor Bill Sikes types that don't take a step backwards in a confrontation and are proud of their shaven heads and attitudes...and yeah, the caricature language that goes with that kind of cinematic or TV or novel character loses a lot of its letters and speaks in gruff, sharp cut terms.

That's not racism - it's just having fun with caricatures - as cartoonists have fun with long noses or double chins. When you talk about enforcer players you tend to give it a bit of 'We iz goin' to smash you, innit!"

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And to answer your question I think what he wrote was racist.

I don't.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:49 pm

If Lawes isn't mixed race he never writes that.

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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:52 pm

munkian wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Courtenay Lawes been mentioned?

BUT HE HAZ MAD ENFORCER SKILLZ FAM !

Some people are claiming that as racist? ^ Don't be ridiculous.

I took it to be "youth speak" or some such.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:54 pm

Not some people. Me.

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Post by munkian on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:56 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
munkian wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Courtenay Lawes been mentioned?

BUT HE HAZ MAD ENFORCER SKILLZ FAM !

Some people are claiming that as racist? ^ Don't be ridiculous.

I took it to be "youth speak" or some such.

Kin hell, man goes away for a nap on his lunch break and he gets accused of racism Rolling Eyes

It was merely taking the piss out of people bigging up a lock for making big hits on unsuspecting players half his size.

Im not a racist, my drug dealer is black ffs.
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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:00 pm

laughing

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Post by LordDowlais on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:00 pm

I wish people would stop quoting No 7&1/2, I have him on ignore, yet I am seeing his inane drivel on the replies, the latest one now is accusing people of being racist.

FFS, people need to lighten up on here.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:01 pm

Grow up ld.

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Post by munkian on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I wish people would stop quoting No 7&1/2, I have him on ignore, yet I am seeing his inane drivel on the replies, the latest one now is accusing people of being racist.

FFS, people need to lighten up on here.

I get the impression he is either slow or a child. Or a slow child.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:04 pm

Own your racism.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:

FFS, people need to lighten up on here.

I've been telling you that for years, Lord........... Whistle

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Post by munkian on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:29 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Own your racism.

Do shut up you melt
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:30 pm

Nope.

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Post by tigertattie on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:32 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Grow up ld.

Just so his lordship can see laughing
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Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 4:08 pm

Heck of a thing to accuse someone of saying something racist. I thought that was well over the top.

Anyway...overrated players:

Stuart Hogg (great in attack, very average in defence)
Jonathan Davies (has had a mare of a season and would be nowhere near test rugby if this was his first)
Manu Tuilagi (yes he's been injured but even when fit, when did he last show test form?)
Simon Zebo (Does one bit of skill and people say he's gold but more often than not he ambles through games)

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