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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 02 Dec 2016, 12:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Funniest thing to happen in years. Have been following the craziness on the FT. Despite the implications if our current crop of retards manage to push it through I can't remember when I've read the news everyday without fail and learned something new. What does everyone think of the possibility that we stay in the single market, retain freedom of movement. Pay into the EU coffers and lose our vote ??


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Post by ShahenshahG on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 8:10 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.


Care to chuck out some examples?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHVVKAKWXcg

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 9:45 am

ShahenshahG wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.


Care to chuck out some examples?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHVVKAKWXcg

Love that sketch! Gets me every time. And when he talks about astrology.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 1:25 pm

May promises white paper. Thank feck for that

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:17 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.


Care to chuck out some examples?

Funnily enough a couple do immediately spring to mind:

Not being allowed to negotiate trade agreements with countries outside the EU

vs

Having to manufacture goods that comply with the Machinery Directive (yes its a piece of EU legislation, but most "civilised" countries will have an equivalent).



Having our judicial system subject to being overruled by the European Courts

vs

Farmers having to comply with the Animal Welfare Act to ensure humane treatment of livestock





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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:23 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:We still have to have some anyway if we want to sell to them and we have to adhere to any regulations that they put in place afterwards to sell to them. We're totally f*cked if what you wish comes true.

If you want to sell good or services anywhere in the world you have to comply with certain standards - thats a given. There is a world of difference between compliance with standards and being bound by all the rules and regulations that go with being a member of the EU.


Care to chuck out some examples?

One does immediately spring to mind:

Not being allowed to negotiate trade agreements with countries outside the EU

vs

Having to manufacture goods that comply with the Machinery Directive (yes its a piece of EU legislation, but most "civilised" countries will have an equivalent).

We negotiate as part of a bloc - a substantially larger stronger trade negotiating position that we have now. What are you suddenly expecting to change? What to ask some other countries how they've got on without the 'constraint' of negotiating within a bloc?

Not sure what you mean by 'vs', but I'm guessing it's an irrelevant point as we'll be required to comply with it to export to the EU and no business is going to try manufacture one set of 'EU compliant' set of goods as well as one set of naff versions for ROW trade (especially as China does that better and cheaper already anyway).

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:26 pm

Oh look you've chucked in two more. So, here we go again:

Ref judicial system, international trade requires international dispute resolution however if, as I suspect, you're actually referring to criminal justice system and in particular the ECHR, well that's not the EU clever boy and leaving the EU won't extracate us from it.

Tories were already trying to push through an extraction (seperate to EU) and replacement of HRA with Brit Bill of Rights before Brexit hit.

Again, unsure where your 'vs' has come from there......what are you saying is versus what?! Headscratch

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:27 pm

Yup. Bought a saw from China it's still running strong. Everything that needs EU compliance China smashes it. Their stuff used to be lucky bag stuff but now it matches some of the best stuff there is I bought it again yesterday for 40 quid give or take a few. Just waiting for the lumber to arrive so I can make it into a table saw.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:27 pm

The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers. It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:29 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Oh look you've chucked in two more. So, here we go again:

Ref judicial system, international trade requires international dispute resolution however if, as I suspect, you're actually referring to criminal justice system and in particular the ECHR, well that's not the EU clever boy and leaving the EU won't extracate us from it.

Tories were already trying to push through an extraction (seperate to EU) and replacement of HRA with Brit Bill of Rights before Brexit hit.

Again, unsure where your 'vs' has come from there......what are you saying is versus what?! Headscratch

They've dropped it for now because they're not sure it will go through so we will be stuck with it and everytime we ignore the ruling we will be less and less trusted.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:31 pm

SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

It's up to the member states to enforce it, the Romanian company in question said ...that's what we do ... sell horse meat. So evidently someone in the supply chain was failing to comply with those standards and Tesco didn't check it. If a person commits a crime it doesn't mean the law is wrong it means that person broke the law and it's up to the local authorities to enforce that law.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:32 pm

SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Brexit was a farce from start to finish..

Only got the referendum because the Government were scared of Ukip and they ended up hurting Labour more...

Kids could have made better arguments.......Both sides should be ashamed....

Needless referendum that will lead to jobs going...less wealth and more racial strife.

Bottom line... Don't play politics with lives.


Brexit hasn't finished yet...and won't for at least a couple of years. Wink

Agree the Referendum was a farce though, thanks to politicians right across the spectrum acting like idiots and scaremongering, instead of giving people facts...or at least their best guesses / carefully considered opinions.

Disagree about it being needless though.

I've been watching what's going on across the channel with growing concern for some time now. What with the economic crises endured by the like of Greece, Italy, Spain and Ireland, not to mention the uncontrolled influx of economic migrants, jumping on the Syrian refugee bandwagon. Couple that with the European Parliament's complete paralysis when it comes to making any important decisions about anything...I just think we're better off outside.

Like most Leavers, I just want control of my country given back to our own elected officials and not have them subject to the latest whims and fancies of a bunch of suits in Brussels, who couldn't give a damn about the UK and are seemingly unaccountable to anyone but their peers.

If anything, I think Brexit WILL prove to be good for the country in the long term and any short term hardships surely can't be any worse than those caused by the financial crash in 2008.

People always fear change and taking steps into the unknown...

But the government has 2 years to get its act together on a Brexit deal. Furthermore they are now going to be subject to scrutiny by Parliament...so I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:48 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:50 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Oh look you've chucked in two more. So, here we go again:

Ref judicial system, international trade requires international dispute resolution however if, as I suspect, you're actually referring to criminal justice system and in particular the ECHR, well that's not the EU clever boy and leaving the EU won't extracate us from it.

Tories were already trying to push through an extraction (seperate to EU) and replacement of HRA with Brit Bill of Rights before Brexit hit.

Again, unsure where your 'vs' has come from there......what are you saying is versus what?! Headscratch


Try reading my post again...SLOWLY...since your comprehension skills seem a little off today. picard


Someone asked me to chuck out some examples of how having to comply with EU legislation was worse / different to complying with general standards governing manufacture and trade...so I did.


In a nutshell, I believe the burden of having to comply with various manufacturing and agricultural standards is still far less than having our trade and industry effectively at the mercy of the EU.

Believe it or not we somehow managed to survive as a nation, trading outside the Common Market, before we joined in 1973. I'm pretty sure we can do so again, even if we do end up having to pay more in import / export tariffs etc.



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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:50 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

It's up to the member states to enforce it, the Romanian company in question said ...that's what we do ... sell horse meat. So evidently someone in the supply chain was failing to comply with those standards and Tesco didn't check it. If a person commits a crime it doesn't mean the law is wrong it means that person broke the law and it's up to the local authorities to enforce that law.
It means that laws get broken. A stamp isn't worth a whole hell of a lot in terms of enforcement. It's just a marketing tool.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:53 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.

Eh? You genuinely are mental.

Pretty sure existing UK laws would prevent any of that nonesense happening anyway. It's another example of an EU law that's common sense so we'd have it anyway.

Never had horse myself, lovely donkey ragu in Italy a couple of years back though, alternative meats get my full support (properly labelled & disclosed).

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:56 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Oh look you've chucked in two more. So, here we go again:

Ref judicial system, international trade requires international dispute resolution however if, as I suspect, you're actually referring to criminal justice system and in particular the ECHR, well that's not the EU clever boy and leaving the EU won't extracate us from it.

Tories were already trying to push through an extraction (seperate to EU) and replacement of HRA with Brit Bill of Rights before Brexit hit.

Again, unsure where your 'vs' has come from there......what are you saying is versus what?! Headscratch


Try reading my post again...SLOWLY...since your comprehension skills seem a little off today. picard


Someone asked me to chuck out some examples of how having to comply with EU legislation was worse / different to complying with general standards governing manufacture and trade...so I did.


How many times have you edited that post now....??

Regardless is still makes minimal point. Like most Brexiteer rationale, it's easily kicked into touch.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 12:59 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.

Eh? You genuinely are mental.

Pretty sure existing UK laws would prevent any of that nonesense happening anyway. It's another example of an EU law that's common sense so we'd have it anyway.

Never had horse myself, lovely donkey ragu in Italy a couple of years back though, alternative meats get my full support (properly labelled & disclosed).

Nice info on the donkey but, again, you only confirm that the 'NEED' for EU standards and laws and moral codes is only a political bluff tale told by the cold-turkey Europhiles.

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 1:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.


Erm you are aware that us Brits are quite attached to horses, not to mention cats, dogs and other cute, furry critters?

Surely you haven't already forgotten the recent scandal that arose when it was revealed Ikea restaurants had been using horsemeat in their meatballs?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/feb/25/horsemeat-found-ikea-meatballs


You're sounding increasingly like one of those loony Remoaners, desperately clutching at any straw that might persuade people that Brexit = Apocalypse. Laugh

I preferred your far-out Illuminati conspiracy theories to be honest. Wink
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 1:23 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.


Erm you are aware that us Brits are quite attached to horses, not to mention cats, dogs and other cute, furry critters?

Surely you haven't already forgotten the recent scandal that arose when it was revealed Ikea restaurants had been using horsemeat in their meatballs?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/feb/25/horsemeat-found-ikea-meatballs


You're sounding increasingly like one of those loony Remoaners, desperately clutching at any straw that might persuade people that Brexit = Apocalypse. Laugh

I preferred your far-out Illuminati conspiracy theories to be honest. Wink

Shocked

I know I was being heavily ironic and sardonic......................................... erm..................................... are you?

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Post by rodders on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 1:43 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:

I've been watching what's going on across the channel with growing concern for some time now.


How have you been watching?
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 1:58 pm

rodders wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:

I've been watching what's going on across the channel with growing concern for some time now.


How have you been watching?

Big Binoculars?

Cheap ones, made in China.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 2:28 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.

Eh? You genuinely are mental.

Pretty sure existing UK laws would prevent any of that nonesense happening anyway. It's another example of an EU law that's common sense so we'd have it anyway.

Never had horse myself, lovely donkey ragu in Italy a couple of years back though, alternative meats get my full support (properly labelled & disclosed).

Nice info on the donkey but, again, you only confirm that the 'NEED' for EU standards and laws and moral codes is only a political bluff tale told by the cold-turkey Europhiles.

No. You're looking at it backward because you are backward. I'm not saying we need to be in the EU to be able to have those laws. I'm saying why complain about something we'd have anyway?

Point is, again your shameless paper-thin attempt and Russell Brand-esque intelligence (a pretty low bar, admittedly) has fallen flat its face as your argument crumbles like a Mary Berry pastry.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 2:50 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Nice info on the donkey but, again, you only confirm that the 'NEED' for EU standards and laws and moral codes is only a political bluff tale told by the cold-turkey Europhiles.

No. You're looking at it backward because you are backward.  I'm not saying we need to be in the EU to be able to have those laws. I'm saying why complain about something we'd have anyway?

Point is, again your shameless paper-thin attempt and Russell Brand-esque intelligence (a pretty low bar, admittedly) has fallen flat its face as your argument crumbles like a Mary Berry pastry.

No, Top.  Yet again, you're told you've driven onto a roundabout but you still claim it's a straight road ahead.  It isn't.  It's an ambush.  

The complaints from the Europhiles is that the EU is essential to establish best-principles across virtually all facets of life.  Europhiles try to pretend that the UK will fall into a new Dark Age of unEnlightenment when the umbilical cord to the Mother Hen EU is cut.
The Brexiteers say that thanking the EU for the standards (industrial or social), the morals, the financial acumen, LGBT rights and Peace-in-our-Time is laughable.  Not only has it fallen and failed badly on virtually all standards by which you might try to form a judgement on its usefulness, all of those headline points Don't need a parliament in Brussels nor a Bankers Friend EU Commission in order to function sufficiently at a National level.

In brief: 'If we'd have the good bits anyway (as you assert), then what's the point in remaining in what is a Babelesque Mess called the EU?

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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:00 pm

rodders wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:

I've been watching what's going on across the channel with growing concern for some time now.


How have you been watching?


I have a tower with an all-seeing eye in my back garden...kinda like Sauron raspberry
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:01 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.

Eh? You genuinely are mental.

Pretty sure existing UK laws would prevent any of that nonesense happening anyway. It's another example of an EU law that's common sense so we'd have it anyway.

Never had horse myself, lovely donkey ragu in Italy a couple of years back though, alternative meats get my full support (properly labelled & disclosed).

Nice info on the donkey but, again, you only confirm that the 'NEED' for EU standards and laws and moral codes is only a political bluff tale told by the cold-turkey Europhiles.

No. You're looking at it backward because you are backward.  I'm not saying we need to be in the EU to be able to have those laws. I'm saying why complain about something we'd have anyway?

Point is, again your shameless paper-thin attempt and Russell Brand-esque intelligence (a pretty low bar, admittedly) has fallen flat its face as your argument crumbles like a Mary Berry pastry.

I'd also wager Flyboy has a problem with a "soggy bottom" as well. Laugh
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Post by dyrewolfe on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:05 pm

SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:

I've been watching what's going on across the channel with growing concern for some time now.


How have you been watching?

Big Binoculars?  

Cheap ones, made in China.

I have a mate who is part of the Illuminati and can get me access to military satellites now and again. raspberry

I like how you're resorting to sarcasm because you've lost the argument. Wink
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:10 pm

dyrewolfe wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
rodders wrote:
dyrewolfe wrote:

I've been watching what's going on across the channel with growing concern for some time now.


How have you been watching?

Big Binoculars?  

Cheap ones, made in China.

I have a mate who is part of the Illuminati and can get me access to military satellites now and again. raspberry

I like how you're resorting to sarcasm because you've lost the argument. Wink

Laugh

Are all you people completely insane?

I'm on your side!  My next goal is the French Election for which I'm now doing a crash course in Russell Brand French in order to be able to support my good pal Marine Le Pen.

Do English schools teach English at a higher level than Teletubbie level? Hug

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:20 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:

Nice info on the donkey but, again, you only confirm that the 'NEED' for EU standards and laws and moral codes is only a political bluff tale told by the cold-turkey Europhiles.

No. You're looking at it backward because you are backward.  I'm not saying we need to be in the EU to be able to have those laws. I'm saying why complain about something we'd have anyway?

Point is, again your shameless paper-thin attempt and Russell Brand-esque intelligence (a pretty low bar, admittedly) has fallen flat its face as your argument crumbles like a Mary Berry pastry.

In brief: 'If we'd have the good bits anyway (as you assert), then what's the point in remaining in what is a Babelesque Mess called the EU?

Because the benefits aren't restricted to solely sovereignty over law making....??

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Post by rodders on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:27 pm

SecretFly wrote:Europhiles try to pretend that the UK will fall into a new Dark Age of unEnlightenment when the umbilical cord to the Mother Hen EU is cut.

Fly the UK never left the dark ages. Without the EU the working classes would still be in workhouses and coal mines.
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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:28 pm

Actually, it's spelt Teletubby.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:47 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:

No. You're looking at it backward because you are backward.  I'm not saying we need to be in the EU to be able to have those laws. I'm saying why complain about something we'd have anyway?

Point is, again your shameless paper-thin attempt and Russell Brand-esque intelligence (a pretty low bar, admittedly) has fallen flat its face as your argument crumbles like a Mary Berry pastry.

In brief: 'If we'd have the good bits anyway (as you assert), then what's the point in remaining in what is a Babelesque Mess called the EU?

Because the benefits aren't restricted to solely sovereignty over law making....??

Then the argument highlighted above in bold isn't your argument.  That's my very point.  It's a guff argument created by the Europhiles to pretend there is no other way but the EU way.  Move on to the arguments you really believe in, Hat.  But no pro-argument requires a common parliament or a dictatorial commission - unless a Federal Europe is the desire of the Remainers.

So be it - if a full political Union of the nations within the EU is the final solution to be desired then be direct, honest and argue that ultimate case - not the spurious pre-Unification arguments.  

The EU project has gotten this far by pretending it has no Federalist Agenda, whilst every treaty has been designed with full political Unification in mind.  Juncker himself has often alluded to the duplicity of the project:
"Of course there will be transfers of sovereignty, but would I be intelligent to draw the attention of public opinion to this fact?"
"We decide on something, leave it lying around and wait to see what happens.  If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back".

Pleasant democratic philosophies in action.  The Royal 'We'.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:49 pm

SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.
Are you serious? They didn't allow it picard. That was unscrupulous manufacturers and if you think being 'free' from the EU is going to mean no individual/company tries to pull a fast one to make more moolah, you really are in La-La Land.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:50 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Actually, it's spelt Teletubby.

I should have paid more attention to the lessons therein.

I was always more a Sesame Street kinda guy, and you know those Americans never could speak nor write proper.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:52 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.
Are you serious? They didn't allow it picard. That was unscrupulous manufacturers and if you think being 'free' from the EU is going to mean no individual/company tries to pull a fast one to make more moolah, you really are in La-La Land.

Or Dipsy-Land, Po-Land, Tinky-Winky Land.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:52 pm

SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.
Oh no you don't. You made a daft comment re. it being the EU's fault that horse meat went into burgers etc to fit your 'EU=Hell' narrative and try to make a clever remark to get out of it. I don't think so.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:55 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.
Are you serious? They didn't allow it picard. That was unscrupulous manufacturers and if you think being 'free' from the EU is going to mean no individual/company tries to pull a fast one to make more moolah, you really are in La-La Land.

???

La La Land?

The stamps, and tons of paperwork, and quality marks, and more rubber stamps, and double tests, and fine legal print.................. none of it Stopped what wasn't allowed. Get it? The point that the EU didn't sanction the rule breaking is irrelevant, the fact that the red tape couldn't prevent it is quite a pointed point in a logical world Wink

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:57 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.
Oh no you don't. You made a daft comment re. it being the EU's fault that horse meat went into burgers etc to fit your 'EU=Hell' narrative and try to make a clever remark to get out of it. I don't think so.

I WAS their fault...................... It - was - their - fault. The checks and balances didn't function.

La La Land Shocked


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:58 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.

The EU is to blame because people broke the standards they set?

Personally I think that 'scandal' simply showed what a great source of cheap (relatively healthy) red meat we have available to us that we can't taste the difference of.

There you go, you confirm the hypocrisy of the topic on standards in only two short sentences.  If the UK leaves the EU fully, it can start putting horse meat in burgers and simply drop the word 'beef'.  Fait accompli. OK  

Meat Burgers!  Succulent meat burgers made with any kind of meat we can buy cheapest.  This product may contain the following:  Beef, pork, horse, dog, cat, monkey and other legitimate meat products from around the world.
Oh no you don't. You made a daft comment re. it being the EU's fault that horse meat went into burgers etc to fit your 'EU=Hell' narrative and try to make a clever remark to get out of it. I don't think so.

Laugh Laugh Laugh Laugh

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 3:59 pm

Toppy laughs as Rome burns.

This place has the plague Yahoo

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:00 pm

SecretFly wrote:I WAS their fault......................

Quite.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:00 pm

Ok St Paddy.....play that tune...

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:01 pm

SecretFly wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
SecretFly wrote:The EU are so strict, they'd never allow horse meat into beef burgers.  It just wouldn't ever happen, folks.
So yes, those standards will be missed in a UK operating outside that protective net.
Are you serious? They didn't allow it picard. That was unscrupulous manufacturers and if you think being 'free' from the EU is going to mean no individual/company tries to pull a fast one to make more moolah, you really are in La-La Land.

???

La La Land?
 
The stamps, and tons of paperwork, and quality marks, and more rubber stamps, and double tests, and fine legal print.................. none of it Stopped what wasn't allowed.  Get it?  The point that the EU didn't sanction the rule breaking is irrelevant, the fact that the red tape couldn't prevent it is quite a pointed point in a logical world Wink
If you have a problem with me and others misunderstanding your arcane points, it's solely down to the fact you write absurd ----ing round-the-house allegories. Stop being obtuse, as if that makes you clever, and be clear.
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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:04 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
If you have a problem with me and others misunderstanding your arcane points, it's solely down to the fact you write absurd ----ing round-the-house allegories. Stop being obtuse, as if that makes you clever, and be clear.

It's direct. The point is/was direct. The EU standards couldn't prevent chancers from drilling their 'beef' with horse meat and selling it in main street stores. Failure. That's a point. It's a logical point. It's not obtuse and doesn't need a thesaurus to work it out.


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Post by rodders on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
If you have a problem with me and others misunderstanding your arcane points, it's solely down to the fact you write absurd ----ing round-the-house allegories. Stop being obtuse, as if that makes you clever, and be clear.

It's direct.  The point is/was direct.  The EU standards couldn't prevent chancers from drilling their 'beef' with horse meat and selling it in main street stores.  Failure.  That's a point.  It's a logical point.  It's not obtuse and doesn't need a thesaurus to work it out.


On the up side the horses were all fed on non-GM modified grass.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:06 pm

Another winner from Camp Brexit:

No nuclear fusion for the U.K. anytime soon

So many inter-dependent and important things but they haven't got a clue what to do with any of them.
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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
If you have a problem with me and others misunderstanding your arcane points, it's solely down to the fact you write absurd ----ing round-the-house allegories. Stop being obtuse, as if that makes you clever, and be clear.

It's direct.  The point is/was direct.  The EU standards couldn't prevent chancers from drilling their 'beef' with horse meat and selling it in main street stores.  Failure.  That's a point.  It's a logical point.  It's not obtuse and doesn't need a thesaurus to work it out.

No, it wasn't and it wasn't only me who misinterpreted your meaning, if indeed that's what you were really saying. Q.E.D. The fact you persistently write all sorts of guff when a clear sentence would do, only lowers your chances of me, Toppy or anyone else agreeing with the point you're trying to make. Your problem though.
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Post by JuliusHMarx on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:11 pm

SecretFly wrote:
navyblueshorts wrote:
If you have a problem with me and others misunderstanding your arcane points, it's solely down to the fact you write absurd ----ing round-the-house allegories. Stop being obtuse, as if that makes you clever, and be clear.

It's direct.  The point is/was direct.  The EU standards couldn't prevent chancers from drilling their 'beef' with horse meat and selling it in main street stores.  Failure.  That's a point.  It's a logical point.  It's not obtuse and doesn't need a thesaurus to work it out.


Nor do murder laws prevent murder. Once we've left the EU they will though. Regaining sovereignty will eradicate all crime.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:12 pm

rodders wrote:
On the up side the horses were all fed on non-GM modified grass.

Don't let that out, rodders! There'll be protests in the street now from the pink'n'multicoloured crew protesting that they are being denied the bodily goodness that a genetic blend of frog, spider and cabbage grass fed horses can bring to their morning complexions.

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Post by SecretFly on Fri 27 Jan 2017, 4:19 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:The fact you persistently write all sorts of guff when a clear sentence would do, only lowers your chances of me, Toppy or anyone else agreeing with the point you're trying to make. Your problem though.

No, it's your problem, navy.  If you need someone to officially outline the blatant sarcasm of the initial point that stated the EU would never allow horse meat into beef burgers, if you couldn't detect a tongue firmly buried into a cheek, then that is your problem, not mine.

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