Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

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Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by tigertattie on Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

          
Edinburgh & Glasgow Warriors

A Not So Brief History of Time-Wasting   (click to show/hide):



http://www.606v2.com/t48240-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread
http://www.606v2.com/t51313-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ii
http://www.606v2.com/t53119-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iii
http://www.606v2.com/t54519-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-iv
http://www.606v2.com/t55409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-v-the-fun-continues
http://www.606v2.com/t56913-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vi-banter-boogaloo
http://www.606v2.com/t57946-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-vii
http://www.606v2.com/t58659-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-viii
http://www.606v2.com/t59409-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-ix
http://www.606v2.com/t60764-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-x-rated
http://www.606v2.com/t61904-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-xi-the-undiscovered-country
http://www.606v2.com/t62900-glasgow-and-edinburgh-ongoing-banter-thread-xii-twelve-monkeys

Guinness Pro12


Edinburgh - Fixtures   (click to show/hide):

Fixtures
11. 26/12/2016 | 16:05 | Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA
12. 31/12/2016 | TBC | Zebre Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby | Stadio Sergio Lanfranchi | TBC
13. 07/01/2017 | 15:00 | Edinburgh Rugby v Munster Rugby | Myreside | Sky
14. 10/11/12 Feb | TBC | Ulster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby | Kingspan Stadium | TBC
15. 17/18/19 Feb | TBC | Leinster Rugby v Edinburgh Rugby | RDS Arena | TBC
16. 24/25/26 Feb | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Cardiff Blues | Myreside | TBC
17. 03/04/05 Mar | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Ospreys | Myreside | TBC
18. 24/25/26 Mar | TBC | Scarlets v Edinburgh Rugby | Parc y Scarlets | TBC
19. 07/08/09 Apr | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Connacht Rugby | Myreside | TBC
20. 15/04/2017 | 20:05 | Benetton Treviso v Edinburgh Rugby | Stadio Monigo | TBC
21. 28/29/30 Apr | TBC | Edinburgh Rugby v Newport Gwent Dragons | Myreside | TBC
22. 06/05/2017 | 17:15 | Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC


Youtube playlist of all of Edinburgh's Pro12 action here.

Glasgow Warriors - Fixtures   (click to show/hide):

Fixtures

11. 26/12/2016 | 16:05 | Edinburgh Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | BT Murrayfield | BBC ALBA
12. 31/12/2016 | 14:00 | Benetton Treviso v Glasgow Warriors | Stadio Monigo | TBC/BBC ALBA
13. 07/01/2017 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors v Cardiff Blues | Scotstoun Stadium | BBC ALBA/S4C
14. 10/11/12 Feb | TBC | Glasgow Warriors v Scarlets | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC
15. 17/18/19 Feb | TBC | Ulster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | Kingspan Stadium | TBC
16. 24/25/26 Feb | TBC | Ospreys v Glasgow Warriors | Liberty Stadium | TBC
17. 03/04/05 Mar | TBC | Glasgow Warriors v Newport Gwent Dragons | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC
18. 24/25/26 Mar | TBC | Glasgow Warriors v Connacht Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC
19. 07/08/09 Apr | TBC | Munster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | Irish Independent Park | TBC
20. 14/04/2017 | 19:35 | Glasgow Warriors v Zebre Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | BBC ALBA
21. 28/29/30 Apr | TBC | Leinster Rugby v Glasgow Warriors | RDS Arena  |  TBC
22. 06/05/2017 | 17:15 | Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh Rugby | Scotstoun Stadium | TBC


Youtube playlist of all of Glasgow's Pro12 action here.

1872 Cup



Champions                Runner up
Edinburgh                  Glasgow Warriors
 

1872 Cup - Past Results   (click to show/hide):

2007–08
28 December 2007, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 35–31 Glasgow Warriors
11 April 2008, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 23–14 Edinburgh
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 54–49

2008–09
26 December 2008, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 39–6 Glasgow Warriors
2 January 2009, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 25–20 Edinburgh
Winner: Edinburgh 59–31

2009–10
27 December 2009, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 25–12 Edinburgh
2 January 2010, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 15–22 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 47–27

2010–11
27 December 2010, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 30–18 Edinburgh
2 January 2011, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 28–17 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 47–46

2011–12
26 December 2011, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 23–23 Glasgow Warriors
1 January 2012, Firhill Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 17–12 Edinburgh
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 40–35

2012–13
21 December 2012, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 23–14 Edinburgh
29 December 2012, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 17–21 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Glasgow Warriors 44–31

2013–14
26 December 2013, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 16–20 Glasgow Warriors
26 April 2014, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 37–34 Edinburgh  (postponed from 1st Jan due to waterlogged pitch)
Winner: Glasgow 57–50

2014–15
27 December 2014, Scotstoun Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 16–6 Edinburgh
2 January 2015, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 20–8 Glasgow Warriors
Winner: Edinburgh 26–24

2015–16
27 December 2015, Murrayfield Stadium, Edinburgh 23–11 Glasgow Warriors
2 January 2016, Murrayfield Stadium, Glasgow Warriors 11–14 Edinburgh (moved from Scotstoun due to waterlogged pitch)
Winner: Edinburgh 37–22

Winners tally
Glasgow Warriors - 6
Edinburgh - 3

Some tidying up could be required as I'm no a PC wizz!

PS - Any player from Ayr is not necessarily "World class"


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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:45 am

jimbopip wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:[
Golf for me, is a great way to get away from the kids for 5 hours.

Actually this Forum does that job for me. Especially during the teaching day.

I'd like to think that you're posting on here whilst teaching. You teach English in Essex right? Just bung on Dangerous Minds and sit back.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:02 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:[
Golf for me, is a great way to get away from the kids for 5 hours.

Actually this Forum does that job for me. Especially during the teaching day.

Lol out loud.

I'm not exactly down with the kids but you probably didn't need to add the 'out loud' unless you wanted to say laugh out loud out loud...

Yeah I know.....I was trying to be jocular.

Soz.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:04 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Nematode wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Nematode wrote:I've been away for a while so this may have been discussed, but did anyone else see this article:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14989392.Edinburgh__39_s_move_to_Myreside_could_be_a_hard_sell/?ref=rl&lp=5

The Herald wrote: "Speaking of that perception, prejudices about the nature of the sport can only have been strengthened by a little pre-match incident at Murrayfield on Boxing Day. The PA announcer was out on the pitch asking kids what they got for Christmas. A Nerf gun, said one. A quad bike, said another. A horse, said a third."


The whole 'rugby is a posh man's sport' claim is getting a bit old and cliched - and this article isn't helping that.  I don't know exactly how many adult rugby teams there are in Edinburgh and surrounding areas but I'd hazard a guess at around 20-25.  Of those only around 1/4 are private school FP clubs, so the majority of adult rugby players in Edinburgh will be state school educated.  I've played rugby for a number of years and I play against private school FP clubs significantly less than state school.

I went to a state school and I really couldn't give a crap that Edinburgh are moving to a private school ground.  It would be the distance and lack of travel options that would put me off (if I still lived in Edinburgh)

Now this is obviously making an assumption that there is a link between those who play rugby and those who would be willing to watch Edinburgh but I think it is a reasonable yardstick to choose.

Basically I think it is an old stereotype and it really doesn't help things to constantly bring it up!

When I saw this article I thought it was just the journalists (as usual) making up nonsense to fill some space on the website (like the Iain 'Mystic' Morrison article). I don't think moving to Myreside is going to do anything to worsen/enhance the image of rugby as an 'elitist' sport - it should improve the atmosphere of Edinburgh games and hopefully draw in some bigger crowds.

That being said, it did make me think. When watching the highlights of the U16 and U18 schools finals during halftime, I noticed all 4 teams were private schools (St Aloysius' College, Strathallan, SM and Dollar Academy). Whether or not this is the norm or unusual, I don't know, but it did make me wonder whether the SRU is doing enough to promote rugby in all schools, beyond an Edinburgh/Glasgow player turning up to a school every now and then?


Private schools almost exclusively make up the schools cup competition top 4 year in year out.  This is because they invest a lot of money into their rugby programme, and even have 'directors of rugby' in some cases (Rob Moffat is at Merchiston I think).  They also tend to bring ex-pro players in as teachers and coaches - Stew Mel have Steven Lawrie for example. Rugby is seen as a vanity project for some private schools and is an advertising tool to attract new pupils.

There's no way state schools can compete with this given that teachers have to volunteer to coach the teams and don't get anything for it (and are often completely lacking in support from their schools). Rugby at private schools is also mandatory (or they can do other sports) - at state schools you are relying on kids actually wanting to do it.

Not to mention former Phil (Good)Godman at Dundee High, think he even still plays for the FPs on occasion as well as coaching the pupils.  

I do have good memories about playing private schools to be fair.

I've mentioned it on here before several times but 2 years above me at school we had Ben Cairns and Alan MacDonald in our 1st XV - future Edinburgh pros and Scotland caps - as well as a good core of players so our school First XV could generally compete with the private schools. I didn't play consistently with the 1st XV at that age but I did win Heriot's 7s tournament, which was a turn up for the books for the private schools! We also only lost to Merchiston in the Schools Cup Quarter final to a last minute try - gutted. We then went on to win the plate final (the level down from the cup), beating Johnnie Beattie's Glasgow Academy in the final!

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:12 pm

Well the private school I attended, despite having a proud rugby tradition, was pretty mince whilst I was there. It would usually take Sedburgh and Merchiston all of 10 minutes to close out the game against us, and Stew Mel and Dollar 20 minutes. We'd just have to satisfy ourselves beating Fettes and Edinburgh Academy, although there's little honour in doing that.

I was a terrible rugby player. The Al Kellock of my school. What I had in size I lacked in courage. I liked the idea of being good, and shouting at people, but my talents stopped there.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by nickj on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:46 pm

DTH is on the move. If Seymour leaves could we rival Newcastle for his signature?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38507695

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by jimbopip on Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:56 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:Well the private school I attended, despite having a proud rugby tradition, everyone was pretty and minced whilst I was there. It would usually take Sedburgh and Merchiston all of 10 minutes to close out the game against us, and Stew Mel and Dollar 20 minutes. We'd just have to satisfy ourselves beating Fettes and Edinburgh Academy pupils, although there's lots of money but little honour in doing that.

I was a terrible rugby player. The Al Kellock of my school. What I had in size I lacked in courage. I liked the idea of being good, and shouting at people, but my talents stopped there.

Fixed that for you sir. Whistle

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:02 pm

nickj wrote:DTH is on the move. If Seymour leaves could we rival Newcastle for his signature?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38507695

When you read this....

"Don't get me wrong, we put an offer to keep DTH, but the money in England is a lot more so when you look over that over three years, it's a no-brainer."

I'd say no.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by nickj on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:11 pm

I suppose you're right, but it would be cracking to think we could compete with the wages on offer at somewhere like Newcastle. We'd certainly be aiming to compete with or better a team at their level on the field

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by Nematode on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:20 pm

I would have thought DTH might have been moving to Saracens with Ashton off? Would Newcastle really be able to offer much better money than Scarlets?


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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by demosthenes on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:45 pm

nickj wrote:DTH is on the move. If Seymour leaves could we rival Newcastle for his signature?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38507695

Is that just a 'what if' or is it something more than that he is up for renewal this year?

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:50 pm

jimbopip wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Well the private school I attended, despite having a proud rugby tradition, everyone was pretty and minced whilst I was there. It would usually take Sedburgh and Merchiston all of 10 minutes to close out the game against us, and Stew Mel and Dollar 20 minutes. We'd just have to satisfy ourselves beating Fettes and Edinburgh Academy pupils, although there's lots of money but little honour in doing that.

I was a terrible rugby player. The Al Kellock of my school. What I had in size I lacked in courage. I liked the idea of being good, and shouting at people, but my talents stopped there.

Fixed that for you sir. Whistle

Thank you, very kind. If Richard Hammond gets sacked from Grand Tour I'll pass over your CV!

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:51 pm

Nematode wrote:I would have thought DTH might have been moving to Saracens with Ashton off? Would Newcastle really be able to offer much better money than Scarlets?


DTH would make hay at Sarries. If Maitland can score tries there, DTH would bag a hatful.


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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by jimbopip on Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:55 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Well the private school I attended, despite having a proud rugby tradition, everyone was pretty and minced whilst I was there. It would usually take Sedburgh and Merchiston all of 10 minutes to close out the game against us, and Stew Mel and Dollar 20 minutes. We'd just have to satisfy ourselves beating Fettes and Edinburgh Academy pupils, although there's lots of money but little honour in doing that.

I was a terrible rugby player. The Al Kellock of my school. What I had in size I lacked in courage. I liked the idea of being good, and shouting at people, but my talents stopped there.

Fixed that for you sir. Whistle

Thank you, very kind. If Richard Hammond gets sacked from Grand Tour I'll pass over your CV!

Richard Hammond ? Grand Tour? Are these popular culture references? Is he the lead crooner in a beat combo?

You wouldn't be the first person/prospective employer/dating agency to pass over my CV.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by nickj on Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:01 pm

demosthenes wrote:
nickj wrote:DTH is on the move. If Seymour leaves could we rival Newcastle for his signature?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38507695

Is that just a 'what if' or is it something more than that he is up for renewal this year?

Yes, I think his contract is up at the end of the season. Fingers crossed he signs

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:05 pm

I really hope he stays with Glasgow. He'd be very difficult to replace and he has a great understanding with Hogg in the back three.

Would Sean Lamont be able to stay for one more year?

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:20 pm

With Hogg and Russell staying on much inflated salaries can Glasgow afford another highly paid flair player?

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by tigertattie on Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:24 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Nematode wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
Nematode wrote:I've been away for a while so this may have been discussed, but did anyone else see this article:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14989392.Edinburgh__39_s_move_to_Myreside_could_be_a_hard_sell/?ref=rl&lp=5

The Herald wrote: "Speaking of that perception, prejudices about the nature of the sport can only have been strengthened by a little pre-match incident at Murrayfield on Boxing Day. The PA announcer was out on the pitch asking kids what they got for Christmas. A Nerf gun, said one. A quad bike, said another. A horse, said a third."


The whole 'rugby is a posh man's sport' claim is getting a bit old and cliched - and this article isn't helping that.  I don't know exactly how many adult rugby teams there are in Edinburgh and surrounding areas but I'd hazard a guess at around 20-25.  Of those only around 1/4 are private school FP clubs, so the majority of adult rugby players in Edinburgh will be state school educated.  I've played rugby for a number of years and I play against private school FP clubs significantly less than state school.

I went to a state school and I really couldn't give a crap that Edinburgh are moving to a private school ground.  It would be the distance and lack of travel options that would put me off (if I still lived in Edinburgh)

Now this is obviously making an assumption that there is a link between those who play rugby and those who would be willing to watch Edinburgh but I think it is a reasonable yardstick to choose.

Basically I think it is an old stereotype and it really doesn't help things to constantly bring it up!

When I saw this article I thought it was just the journalists (as usual) making up nonsense to fill some space on the website (like the Iain 'Mystic' Morrison article). I don't think moving to Myreside is going to do anything to worsen/enhance the image of rugby as an 'elitist' sport - it should improve the atmosphere of Edinburgh games and hopefully draw in some bigger crowds.

That being said, it did make me think. When watching the highlights of the U16 and U18 schools finals during halftime, I noticed all 4 teams were private schools (St Aloysius' College, Strathallan, SM and Dollar Academy). Whether or not this is the norm or unusual, I don't know, but it did make me wonder whether the SRU is doing enough to promote rugby in all schools, beyond an Edinburgh/Glasgow player turning up to a school every now and then?


Private schools almost exclusively make up the schools cup competition top 4 year in year out.  This is because they invest a lot of money into their rugby programme, and even have 'directors of rugby' in some cases (Rob Moffat is at Merchiston I think).  They also tend to bring ex-pro players in as teachers and coaches - Stew Mel have Steven Lawrie for example. Rugby is seen as a vanity project for some private schools and is an advertising tool to attract new pupils.

There's no way state schools can compete with this given that teachers have to volunteer to coach the teams and don't get anything for it (and are often completely lacking in support from their schools). Rugby at private schools is also mandatory (or they can do other sports) - at state schools you are relying on kids actually wanting to do it.

We can all relax. As we type the SNP are plotting to remove the charitable status of private schools and many will fold, rightly or wrongly.

Isn't it the UK Labour Party that are wanting that?
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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:21 pm

...as well as the SNP. Dugdale said she'd scrap charitable status as well. I'm more worried about the SNP though, as they wield power up here (although not a majority, thank goodness).

Scotland will win back to back grand slams before the UK Labour Party regains any semblance of power.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by tigertattie on Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:38 pm

I know they are looking at it being a UK wide thing!

Last I saw the schools had to prove that they warranted being given charitable status in order to continue receiving the tax breaks that charities get.

one such way was for them to open their doors to state schools to allow them to use the facilities.

If public schools lose the charity status all they'll do is up the already hefty fees that they charge for each pupil!
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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:50 pm

tigertattie wrote:I know they are looking at it being a UK wide thing!

Last I saw the schools had to prove that they warranted being given charitable status in order to continue receiving the tax breaks that charities get.

one such way was for them to open their doors to state schools to allow them to use the facilities.


If public schools lose the charity status all they'll do is up the already hefty fees that they charge for each pupil!  

I fully support that by the way. They should be made to demonstrate public benefit but, on the basis that they do so, they should continue to benefit from the tax breaks afforded to non-profit making educational establishments (which they are).

If the schools are forced to dramatically increase fees, the effect on social mobility and inequality will be the exact opposite of what the SNP/Labour are seeking to achieve. At that point the schools will truly be available only to the richest in society (I had a scholarship and my parents still struggled with the fees), and the govt will lose the only leverage they have to open up these establishments to middle/lower class children via scholarship/local state school partnerships.

Don't get me wrong, utopia for me would be a world class state school system for all with superb teaching standards and excellent facilities, entirely free of charge. We are, sadly, a long way from that.

Sorry, I'll stop at that. This is probably straying away from "rugby banter".

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by tigertattie on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:07 pm

It's ok. I can fix the issue with one statement!

"Rugby is a game for posh school boys - said no one ever to Allan Jacobson of Preston Lodge High School"
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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:08 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
tigertattie wrote:I know they are looking at it being a UK wide thing!

Last I saw the schools had to prove that they warranted being given charitable status in order to continue receiving the tax breaks that charities get.

one such way was for them to open their doors to state schools to allow them to use the facilities.


If public schools lose the charity status all they'll do is up the already hefty fees that they charge for each pupil!  

I fully support that by the way. They should be made to demonstrate public benefit but, on the basis that they do so, they should continue to benefit from the tax breaks afforded to non-profit making educational establishments (which they are).

If the schools are forced to dramatically increase fees, the effect on social mobility and inequality will be the exact opposite of what the SNP/Labour are seeking to achieve. At that point the schools will truly be available only to the richest in society (I had a scholarship and my parents still struggled with the fees), and the govt will lose the only leverage they have to open up these establishments to middle/lower class children via scholarship/local state school partnerships.

Don't get me wrong, utopia for me would be a world class state school system for all with superb teaching standards and excellent facilities, entirely free of charge. We are, sadly, a long way from that.

Sorry, I'll stop at that. This is probably straying away from "rugby banter".

Probably? Very Happy

In slightly related news (private school & rugby) seats are apparently in at Myerside. The wee video on the Edinburgh Rugby page also makes the new setup look decent. Despite being incredibly cheesy from Hodge, McInally and S.Hastings.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by jimbopip on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:10 pm

Without wanting to descend into political pooh flinging may I remind you of the writings of the Victorian grime rapper Matthew Arnold.
To paraphrase, the middle-class in any society tend to be the driving force for any meaningful change. The upper classes are doing very well and don't want that to change: the working classes want things to change but economic and political marginalization prevents them from bringing about any meaningful change. The middle class are aspirational and have the means to effect change.
If public schools lose their charitable status and middle class parents have to send their children to state schools then we would see an improvement in the "average" state school. Thus improving the life chances of a much greater percentage of the population.

Rereading the above I suddenly realised; a few seasons ago Glasgow didn't like languishing in the lower half of the table and are now regularly in the play offs. The Luvvies have been complaining about being in the bottom half for years now but are unable to do anything about it. So, who would Matthew Arnold call working class?

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by MacKnocked-on on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:38 pm

I notice that with the collapse of Bradford Bulls RL this week that the players have all been made free agents, one of whom is Oscar Thomas the Scotland standoff/fullback (although he didn't make the recent 4Ns squad). As far as I know he has played for the LI union academy side in the past. Given the shortage of stand offs in the Scottish game we've been discussing recently, would he be worth picking up on a short contract to see if he's got potential? Obviously could go the way of Te Rure, Hunter etc but who knows.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:40 pm

jimbopip wrote:Without wanting to descend into political pooh flinging may I remind you of the writings of the Victorian grime rapper Matthew Arnold.
To paraphrase, the middle-class in any society tend to be the driving force for any meaningful change. The upper classes are doing very well and don't want that to change: the working classes want things to change but economic and political marginalization prevents them from bringing about any meaningful change. The middle class are aspirational and have the means to effect change.
If public schools lose their charitable status and middle class parents have to send their children to state schools then we would see an improvement in the "average" state school. Thus improving the life chances of a much greater percentage of the population.

Rereading the above I suddenly realised; a few seasons ago Glasgow didn't like languishing in the lower half of the table and are now regularly in the play offs. The Luvvies have been complaining about being in the bottom half for years now but are unable to do anything about it. So, who would Matthew Arnold call working class?

....and doing nothing to address the original objection to public schools, which is the creation of elite networks, to say nothing of the political hazard of effectively telling the middle classes, where elections are won/lost, what they can and cannot do with their children.

Anyhoo, I'm not sure Matthew Arnold factored in the incompetence of Moffatt and Bradley at Edinburgh in his analysis, or the signings of Mike Penn and Ben Atiga, coupled with the leadership of Mike Coman. Edinburgh are aspirational and have means....just a little bit useless at deploying them!

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:42 pm

MacKnocked-on wrote:I notice that with the collapse of Bradford Bulls RL this week that the players have all been made free agents, one of whom is Oscar Thomas the Scotland standoff/fullback (although he didn't make the recent 4Ns squad). As far as I know he has played for the LI union academy side in the past. Given the shortage of stand offs in the Scottish game we've been discussing recently, would he be worth picking up on a short contract to see if he's got potential? Obviously could go the way of Te Rure, Hunter etc but who knows.

We should certainly take a look. We gave Te Rure a couple of games after all.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:44 pm

Te Rure???? mad

I've only just about managed to not break out in a fit of rage whenever I hear his name mentioned - I'm back to square one now! furious

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by MacKnocked-on on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:47 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:I notice that with the collapse of Bradford Bulls RL this week that the players have all been made free agents, one of whom is Oscar Thomas the Scotland standoff/fullback (although he didn't make the recent 4Ns squad). As far as I know he has played for the LI union academy side in the past. Given the shortage of stand offs in the Scottish game we've been discussing recently, would he be worth picking up on a short contract to see if he's got potential? Obviously could go the way of Te Rure, Hunter etc but who knows.

We should certainly take a look. We gave Te Rure a couple of games after all.

You would assume Thomas would be more robust than Te Rure if nothing else. I think it could be a good, and probably cheap, opportunity for the SRU to give the guy a chance to train over the rest of the season.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by jimbopip on Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:48 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
jimbopip wrote:Without wanting to descend into political pooh flinging may I remind you of the writings of the Victorian grime rapper Matthew Arnold.
To paraphrase, the middle-class in any society tend to be the driving force for any meaningful change. The upper classes are doing very well and don't want that to change: the working classes want things to change but economic and political marginalization prevents them from bringing about any meaningful change. The middle class are aspirational and have the means to effect change.
If public schools lose their charitable status and middle class parents have to send their children to state schools then we would see an improvement in the "average" state school. Thus improving the life chances of a much greater percentage of the population.

Rereading the above I suddenly realised; a few seasons ago Glasgow didn't like languishing in the lower half of the table and are now regularly in the play offs. The Luvvies have been complaining about being in the bottom half for years now but are unable to do anything about it. So, who would Matthew Arnold call working class?

....and doing nothing to address the original objection to public schools, which is the creation of elite networks, to say nothing of the political hazard of effectively telling the middle classes, where elections are won/lost, what they can and cannot do with their children.

Anyhoo, I'm not sure Matthew Arnold factored in the incompetence of Moffatt and Bradley at Edinburgh in his analysis, or the signings of Mike Penn and Ben Atiga, coupled with the leadership of Mike Coman. Edinburgh are aspirational and have means....just a little bit useless when it comes to actually playing rugby.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:41 am

According to Mike Blair, Ryan Grant hasn't left to Brive on Loan and has been training with Glasgow...

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:04 am

There was a rumour the other day that Seymour and Russell were spotted in France, with the suggestion they were being wooed by clubs and checking out the facilities, rather than on a sort of mini break together.

Anyway, according to the gossip columns today (always reliable) Russell is apparently about to be bought out of his contract

"French clubs Toulon and Montpellier and English sides Bath and Gloucester prepared to spend £250,000 to buy out the final year of his contract, which ends in May 2018"

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by tigertattie on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:06 am

MacKnocked-on wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
MacKnocked-on wrote:I notice that with the collapse of Bradford Bulls RL this week that the players have all been made free agents, one of whom is Oscar Thomas the Scotland standoff/fullback (although he didn't make the recent 4Ns squad). As far as I know he has played for the LI union academy side in the past. Given the shortage of stand offs in the Scottish game we've been discussing recently, would he be worth picking up on a short contract to see if he's got potential? Obviously could go the way of Te Rure, Hunter etc but who knows.

We should certainly take a look. We gave Te Rure a couple of games after all.

You would assume Thomas would be more robust than Te Rure if nothing else. I think it could be a good, and probably cheap, opportunity for the SRU to give the guy a chance to train over the rest of the season.  

A stand off in RL is not the same as a stand off in union!

Wingers can convert as their skill set consists of catch ball and run quickly. Skills transferable between codes!
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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:13 am

EWT Spoons wrote:There was a rumour the other day that Seymour and Russell were spotted in France, with the suggestion they were being wooed by clubs and checking out the facilities, rather than on a sort of mini break together.

Anyway, according to the gossip columns today (always reliable) Russell is apparently about to be bought out of his contract

"French clubs Toulon and Montpellier and English sides Bath and Gloucester prepared to spend £250,000 to buy out the final year of his contract, which ends in May 2018"

These 'spotted in France' rumours are usually far fetched, but I think it would be a mistake for Russell to leave now. He's still young and developing and I think Glasgow - especially under the new coach - is the best place for him to be.

I can't help but think Seymour will be off - he's perhaps a luxury that Glasgow can no longer afford and at 28 he's only got a few years left in his prime as a winger.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by SirBurger on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:15 am

I may be wrong but I think Oscar Thomas was a winger when he was in the Irish academy, so unlikely he could play 10 in Union.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:21 am

Hopefully the rumours go no further, especially with Russell, losing Seymour would be a blow, but losing Russell would be game changing for Glasgow. There is no one of his quality or even close at 10 currently in the Scottish game. That said if he does leave, Glasgow you are welcome to take back Weir to cover.

I guess with Finn he's going to be 25 this year he may think that he wants to earn some serious cash before his playing days are over. Scott is only a year older and we all thought it was a wise move for him to head down south. I would love for him to stay, but could easily understand if he moved to the Aviva or T14.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:29 am

EWT Spoons wrote:There was a rumour the other day that Seymour and Russell were spotted in France, with the suggestion they were being wooed by clubs and checking out the facilities, rather than on a sort of mini break together.

Anyway, according to the gossip columns today (always reliable) Russell is apparently about to be bought out of his contract

"French clubs Toulon and Montpellier and English sides Bath and Gloucester prepared to spend £250,000 to buy out the final year of his contract, which ends in May 2018"

If he does go, it should be for a top 3 club in England/France.....not mid table mediocrity like Gloucester.

Where did you see this Spoons?

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:30 am

My only hope is that if he does leave it is for a top 4 team in either league - with all due respect to the like of Newcastle, Sale, London Irish etc. it does annoy me a bit when players choose to go to teams that aren't a step up from what they currently have, and could even be a step down due to the lack of Champions Cup rugby!

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:30 am

We've pretty much just said the same thing Tattie! Hug

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:34 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:There was a rumour the other day that Seymour and Russell were spotted in France, with the suggestion they were being wooed by clubs and checking out the facilities, rather than on a sort of mini break together.

Anyway, according to the gossip columns today (always reliable) Russell is apparently about to be bought out of his contract

"French clubs Toulon and Montpellier and English sides Bath and Gloucester prepared to spend £250,000 to buy out the final year of his contract, which ends in May 2018"

If he does go, it should be for a top 3 club in England/France.....not mid table mediocrity like Gloucester.

Where did you see this Spoons?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38515753

Right at the bottom of the page

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:36 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:There was a rumour the other day that Seymour and Russell were spotted in France, with the suggestion they were being wooed by clubs and checking out the facilities, rather than on a sort of mini break together.

Anyway, according to the gossip columns today (always reliable) Russell is apparently about to be bought out of his contract

"French clubs Toulon and Montpellier and English sides Bath and Gloucester prepared to spend £250,000 to buy out the final year of his contract, which ends in May 2018"

If he does go, it should be for a top 3 club in England/France.....not mid table mediocrity like Gloucester.

Where did you see this Spoons?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38515753

Right at the bottom of the page

Out of all of that Montpellier would potentially be the most likely given the Vern Cotter link. Bath as well perhaps given that George Ford is probably leaving?

I'm not sure Russell's flakey goal kicking will go down too well in either league however!

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by tigertattie on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:42 am

He could just go to a club that has the 9 kicking! France do love a goal kicking 9 for some reason!
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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:44 am

The rumour from prior to this appearing was that is was primarily Montpellier for both Russell and Seymour as Cotter rates them highly and fancies taking them to his new club. In part because he rates them, but also because he is still a bit bitter about being let go from the Scotland job and this is in a small way revenge by taking 2 of Glasgow’s best players.

Not saying any of this is true, just what was suggested

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:52 am

EWT Spoons wrote:The rumour from prior to this appearing was that is was primarily Montpellier for both Russell and Seymour as Cotter rates them highly and fancies taking them to his new club.  In part because he rates them, but also because he is still a bit bitter about being let go from the Scotland job and this is in a small way revenge by taking 2 of Glasgow’s best players.

Not saying any of this is true, just what was suggested

Vern doesn't strike me as a spiteful man - that sounds like tabloid media stirring to me!

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by BigGee on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:56 am

Talking of moves to France, the Ryan Grant loan moves seems to be clouded im mystery at the moment, with Glasgow coming out last night and saying that Grant was currently training with them and that no move has been agreed.

Not sure what to make of that. Either there has been some back tracking by Glasgow/SRU or Grant and his agent and Brive have got a little ahead of themselves.

On the face of it, the move seemed to make sense for all parties except maybe now with the injuries to Dickinson and Sutherland, Toonie sees himself losing both Reid and Allen to Scotland in the 6N and figures that he still needs Grant.

Not the finest bit of contract negotiation however you look at it.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:58 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:The rumour from prior to this appearing was that is was primarily Montpellier for both Russell and Seymour as Cotter rates them highly and fancies taking them to his new club.  In part because he rates them, but also because he is still a bit bitter about being let go from the Scotland job and this is in a small way revenge by taking 2 of Glasgow’s best players.

Not saying any of this is true, just what was suggested

Vern doesn't strike me as a spiteful man - that sounds like tabloid media stirring to me!

Nor I, but I don't know him in any way and from the way he's spoken about it, it doesn't seem like he's entirely happy with the situation regarding him and the Scotland job. I'd like to think, like you say, that it's just tabloid spin, but it wasn't a tabloid that side of the rumour came from (wasn't a news source at all) so there may be an element of truth in it. However, chances are it's total rubbish and he just rates them having coached them with the national team.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by BigGee on Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:59 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:The rumour from prior to this appearing was that is was primarily Montpellier for both Russell and Seymour as Cotter rates them highly and fancies taking them to his new club.  In part because he rates them, but also because he is still a bit bitter about being let go from the Scotland job and this is in a small way revenge by taking 2 of Glasgow’s best players.

Not saying any of this is true, just what was suggested

Vern doesn't strike me as a spiteful man - that sounds like tabloid media stirring to me!

I would tend to agree and I can't see the SRU letting Finn go early, though I can see us losing him when his contract is up.

It is not the same as for Naka, who to some extent we already had replacements for. As has already been said, no one can replace Finn at the moment. It would be totally the wrong message and not worth the money to lose him.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:02 am

BigGee wrote:Talking of moves to France, the Ryan Grant loan moves seems to be clouded im mystery at the moment, with Glasgow coming out last night and saying that Grant was currently training with them and that no move has been agreed.

Not sure what to make of that. Either there has been some back tracking by Glasgow/SRU or Grant and his agent and Brive have got a little ahead of themselves.

On the face of it, the move seemed to make sense for all parties except maybe now with the injuries to Dickinson and Sutherland, Toonie sees himself losing both Reid and Allen to Scotland in the 6N and figures that he still needs Grant.

Not the finest bit of contract negotiation however you look at it.

Is Dickinson injured again?

I thought he was over his injury, unless he's picked up a new one that I've missed (entirely possible). If Dickinson is injury free then I reckon Scotland's LH are likely to be Dickinson as 1st choice with Dell covering. Then possibly one of Reid or Allan as back up, at least until Sutherland is fit.

However, yeah it's a bit odd this whole Grant thing.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:05 am

BigGee wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:The rumour from prior to this appearing was that is was primarily Montpellier for both Russell and Seymour as Cotter rates them highly and fancies taking them to his new club.  In part because he rates them, but also because he is still a bit bitter about being let go from the Scotland job and this is in a small way revenge by taking 2 of Glasgow’s best players.

Not saying any of this is true, just what was suggested

Vern doesn't strike me as a spiteful man - that sounds like tabloid media stirring to me!

I would tend to agree and I can't see the SRU letting Finn go early, though I can see us losing him when his contract is up.

It is not the same as for Naka, who to some extent we already had replacements for. As has already been said, no one can replace Finn at the moment. It would be totally the wrong message and not worth the money to lose him.

I guess it possibly depends on what Finn has written into his contract. He may have a clause or the like that says if a certain figure is reached to buy him out, he's free to leave, or if certain teams come calling. Now that would be a silly thing to do from the SRU's perspective, but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:09 am

EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:Talking of moves to France, the Ryan Grant loan moves seems to be clouded im mystery at the moment, with Glasgow coming out last night and saying that Grant was currently training with them and that no move has been agreed.

Not sure what to make of that. Either there has been some back tracking by Glasgow/SRU or Grant and his agent and Brive have got a little ahead of themselves.

On the face of it, the move seemed to make sense for all parties except maybe now with the injuries to Dickinson and Sutherland, Toonie sees himself losing both Reid and Allen to Scotland in the 6N and figures that he still needs Grant.

Not the finest bit of contract negotiation however you look at it.

Is Dickinson injured again?

I thought he was over his injury, unless he's picked up a new one that I've missed (entirely possible).  If Dickinson is injury free then I reckon Scotland's LH are likely to be Dickinson as 1st choice with Dell covering.  Then possibly one of Reid or Allan as back up, at least until Sutherland is fit.

However, yeah it's a bit odd this whole Grant thing.

He limped off early against Glasgow and missed the Zebre game - no word on how serious it is.

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Re: Edinburgh and Glasgow: Ongoing Banter Thread XIV (It's still personal)

Post by EWT Spoons on Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:21 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
EWT Spoons wrote:
BigGee wrote:Talking of moves to France, the Ryan Grant loan moves seems to be clouded im mystery at the moment, with Glasgow coming out last night and saying that Grant was currently training with them and that no move has been agreed.

Not sure what to make of that. Either there has been some back tracking by Glasgow/SRU or Grant and his agent and Brive have got a little ahead of themselves.

On the face of it, the move seemed to make sense for all parties except maybe now with the injuries to Dickinson and Sutherland, Toonie sees himself losing both Reid and Allen to Scotland in the 6N and figures that he still needs Grant.

Not the finest bit of contract negotiation however you look at it.

Is Dickinson injured again?

I thought he was over his injury, unless he's picked up a new one that I've missed (entirely possible).  If Dickinson is injury free then I reckon Scotland's LH are likely to be Dickinson as 1st choice with Dell covering.  Then possibly one of Reid or Allan as back up, at least until Sutherland is fit.

However, yeah it's a bit odd this whole Grant thing.

He limped off early against Glasgow and missed the Zebre game - no word on how serious it is.

So apparently I did totally miss that. Gutted

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