Eng in India

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Eng in India

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 9:44 am

LivinginItaly wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Does anyone really see Stokes as a genuine top 5 batsman?

(That comment will no doubt lead to a splendidly crafted century)

Top 5 no. Number 6 yes.

He will be back at six when they leave India and revert to a normal team balance ...ie just five bowlers. But it is probably a necessary evil on this tour.
In this case , five and six turned out to be virtually identical anyway Smile

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Re: Eng in India

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 9:55 am

He is at six anyway, isn't he? I thought Bairstow came in at 5 and stokes at 6.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:04 am

All of a sudden this has become all about survival for this pair (particularly Stokes) with England 246 for 4. Key last hour coming up.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:08 am

LivinginItaly wrote:He is at six anyway, isn't he? I thought Bairstow came in at 5 and stokes at 6.

Yes you're right...though it was irrelevant this time. The order that was quoted earlier on had Stokes at five , I think ; not sure whether that was ever actually intended ?
Perhaps they wanted to get a left-right combination going ?

Stokes having a bit of a struggle laying bat on Ashwin...

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:13 am

Big wicket for India. Bairstow caught in the deep sweeping and England's early good work being undone here. England 249 for 5.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:16 am

A big blow for England as Bairstow goes ! He was looking good ; but got under that sweep and picked out the man on the leg boundary.

249/5 and they are in danger of handing back much of their advantage. Buttler on a turning pitch ...a bit nervous for the spectators.

On the other hand : the ball is spinning and bouncing , already ; and England have 249 on the board.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:16 am

And now Bairstow goes.

England in danger of throwing away all their good hard work.

Alternatively the pitch is starting to offer more to the bowling team. Still would want at least 450 though which is looking distinctly unlikely barring a miracle.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by compelling and rich on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:17 am

why do we keep trying to sweep against ashwin. theres being positive but pick your bowlers. the bounch he gets always makes it a tough shot

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Re: Eng in India

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:19 am

I wonder how Rashid will bowl on here given that there seems to be turn and extra bounce. Just hope we get enough runs to let him attack without worrying about the odd bad ball.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by compelling and rich on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:20 am

lets hope jos can get a quick 50, because he looks like a walking wicket at the moment

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:21 am

This pair give the impression they know they are not there for the long haul and want to score as many as they can before they get that ball that has their name on it. Wise I would say. England 259 for 5.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:22 am

The way this pitch is turning now you feel even a score around 350 would be competitive. But they must aim higher.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:26 am

Bloody Ashwin :/

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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:32 am

Looks like this pitch is going to be the big turner they've been promising throughout the series.
And for the first time England have gone for four quicks and just two spinners Smile

Might not be a disaster though : can rotate the pace men , keeping them fresh - and use the spinners at the other end ; Root is not exactly useless with the ball either.

Main thing is to get this first innings as high as they can.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:49 am

India waste a review and Stokes survives. England 275 for 5.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 10:50 am

Don't want to jinx them, but stokes and buttler appear to be steadying the ship.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:02 am

And England overcome what could have been a very tricky last three quarters of an hour to close on 288 for 5. England's day winning the first two sessions but India having the best of the final session. This pair (somehow) have hung in there adding 39 crucial runs but I'don't bet a lot of money on one of these falling early tomorrow once the new ball is taken.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:03 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:India waste a review and Stokes survives. England 275 for 5.

Was very close ! Heart in mouth there...

Close to the end now ; can they last ?

Cat and mouse last over...safe !

288/5 . I'll take that OK

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Re: Eng in India

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:05 am

An even first day I'd say
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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:17 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:An even first day I'd say

India came back well ; but I think England still edged it. Rather have the runs on the board the way that ball was behaving in the last session.

If they fold early tomorrow then the advantage may be lost ; but I think right at the moment they'd be the happier team.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:20 am

I would put England fractionally ahead at this point.

I think at the start of play we would have happily accepted to be 280-5 at the close with a century for the debutant Jennings. Hopefully with one of either stokes or Buttler staying with the lower order / tail 400 is not impossible, which while not being a match winning total is probably enough to help us exert a lot of pressure on India.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 12:44 pm

alfie wrote:
LivinginItaly wrote:He is at six anyway, isn't he? I thought Bairstow came in at 5 and stokes at 6.

Yes you're right...though it was irrelevant this time.  The order that was quoted earlier on had Stokes at five , I think ; not sure whether that was ever actually intended ?
Perhaps they wanted to get a left-right combination going ?

Stokes having a bit of a struggle laying bat on Ashwin...

Yeah sorry the batting order had him listed at 5 and Bairstow 6 so I assumed that's what was going to happen. Just to double down my comment Bairstow got out cheaply and Stokes will no doubt go on top prove he should be at 4. I have a lot more faith in Bairstow being one of the best 5 batsmen available to England than I do either Stokes or Moeen. The argument that he should be concentrating on his keeping and batting down the order is no more valid than it is for Moeen or Stokes' bowling.
That you have a specialist bat hiding at 7 really sums up what a mess England have got their batting order in due to the failures of the players they have selected.

Continuing my days theme of ranting about Englands tour squad picks ...Dawson. If you arent going to pick Ansari hell or high water because you don't have enough faith in his bowling and cant justify him as a batsman; whats the point in dragging out a chap who you have less faith in his bowling and isn't as good a batsman?

So far all the wickets have fallen to spin, and it looks like the turn has come early despite the groundsmans comments earlier in the week that it should hold up till day 3. That toss and the early runs from Jennings look like a pretty big deal now the pitch has pooed the bed early.

I am a bit concerned about how well Englands attack will fair, but the 3 spinners approach has failed so I think its right they've gone for the nearest thing to a pace bowler they have to try something different. Rashid should get the assistance he needs, but theres no Ashwin who really is a class apart.


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Re: Eng in India

Post by dummy_half on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 12:47 pm

LivinginItaly wrote:I would put England fractionally ahead at this point.

I think at the start of play we would have happily accepted to be 280-5 at the close with a century for the debutant Jennings.  Hopefully with one of either stokes or Buttler staying with the lower order / tail 400 is not impossible, which while not being a match winning total is probably enough to help us exert a lot of pressure on India.

Agree with this - it only feels a close day because India got some momentum back in the last session, but if you'd asked England at the toss whether they'd take 280-5 on a wicket already turning they'd have been delighted.

Target for tomorrow has to be to push on to and past 400 - not a given, but if these two can stay together a while and then get the now quite expected chip in from Woakes and Rashid, we should be somewhere in the region. Should be plenty to be bowling at.

I do wonder if 4 seamers is a bit too much on this track, but to some extent there weren't many other options - neither Batty nor Ansari have proven their worth this series (certainly, there is no evidence they would do more than Root as a third spinner), and we don't really have another batsman in form who could have slotted in.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by msp83 on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 1:49 pm

Couldn't follow the game for the first couple of session, and from an when I turned the TV on, England were 230-2 and Ashwin had the ball. He took 2 in an over, and the ball was doing magical things out there and I was frustrated that India let England get away that much. Had a look at cricinfo, and it suggested that the pitch came to life only in the last session. It was terrific watching the game in that last session, when each ball was a huge questionmark.
Fabulous debut effort from Keaton Jennings. Like Alastair Cook, he has marked his test debut with a ton in India. England would be hoping that the similarities wouldn't end there....... With him and Hameed, they would be hoping the top order troubles would soon be over and Joe Root, their best batsman, can move down to 4. Bairstow at 5, Stokes at 6, Buttler at 7 with the gloves. Woakes, Rashid/Ali, Broad and Anderson would make a pretty fine lineup indeed, if Hameed and Jennings can continue the initial good work......

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Re: Eng in India

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 1:50 pm

On the 3 spinners argument...jadeja and yadav have bowled nearly half a day between them for one wicket .
Whilst Ashwin has been pretty lethal I think this only underlines the point that it's quality bowling rather than just relying on a pitch that makes the difference.

The two spinners England have picked are the biggest wicket taking threats they have available. As you've said the others they have would be pretty much null , and just reduce the number of over that the better ones will get to try something out. Criticize the decision to pick containing bowlers and all rounders for the squad, but in think the decision to drop to 2 is fully justifiable.

4 seamers may seem (groan) overkill when the Indians only bowled 20 overs on day 1. But is that a reflection of poor quality and poor tactic rather than a guide to what England should be doing.
In the absence of a third spinner they have planned for long hot days and bowling first. Ball gives them.some extra pace and enables them to manage the others in short bursts. If it really isn't helping the seamers then moeen and rashid can bowl bulk overs anyway, with some support from root.

I think from what's happened in previous games and from what was available in the squad they have made the right match day picks.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by msp83 on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 1:54 pm

India kept dropping catches by the ton in the first 3 tests, but have got away with it to a great extend. Think this time the drops have caught up with them and they might have to pay a very heavy price. England nearly have 300 on the board, Stokes is still there, survived a sturn examination from Ashwin. and Buttler, if he gets going, can play some pretty special shots and put the best of the bowlers off. There is Woakes and Rashid to come, and there is no Shami to ask some tough short ball questions and produce precision guided Yorkers to take care of the lower order. So unless Ashwin and his spin partners can't do the job quickly within the first hour and a half, think India will have yet another tough Mumbai test against England, continuing the pattern from 2006 and 2012.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 1:58 pm

The road maps for tomorrow will be something like these:-

England will hope they can show resistance in the lower order and bat through the morning session to reach lunch on around 380 for 7. Add another 50 or so runs after lunch to be bowled out for around 425 mid-way through the afternoon session. By tea they'd want to have had some breakthroughs perhaps reducing India to 50 for 2 at tea. At close of play they'd feel very happy to have India at around 150 for 5 with them in with the prospect or forging a handy first innings lead.

India will hope to get early wickets tomorrow morning and if they can do that then have England all out for around 325. They'd then want to bat a tricky spell to lunch without any alarm say reaching lunch on 25 for 0. By tea they'd want to be around 140 for 2 and then push on in the final session to close on around 250 for 4 leaving them well-placed to carve out a key first innings lead.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by msp83 on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:07 pm

A spinner who bowls by and large flattish and quick would have not much use on this pitch unless he doesn't have a Jadeja like accuracy. Don't think the bits and pieces option England have flown in from the UAE is anything of that kind. Of Jadeja is a great deal more than that, but even he had to primarily rely on his accuracy and then a bit of variation on this track. There is bounce and turn available, but that was when the ball was tossed up and bowled slow through the air. Rashid might become a big factor. And Ali too. But the rest of the slow bowling options England have brought with them aren't really worth it. They could have picked another batsman, perhaps Ducket, but considering his struggles against Ashwin, they might have thought that might create lasting damage to his confidence and hamper his development. So the 4th seamer is alright, anyways, the seamers all are carrying some or the other small fitness concerns.......

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Re: Eng in India

Post by msp83 on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:14 pm

India, with Bhuvneshwar Kumar in for Shami, bats to 10. And they might need all that batting to come through in this game. The ball is doing trickts, if Anderson is on the money and if the spinners get their act together, it could be very difficult for them...... They would have desperately wanted one more wicket in that last session, would have given them a reasonable chance of restricting the England innings to around 350. Now 400 seems pretty much on the cards, and England would want at least 30 40 more, and India would hope they can restrict them to around 380 400. Even then, they will have to keep chasing the game and bat very well to stay alive in the contest........

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Re: Eng in India

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:17 pm

Expecting England to pass 400 is pretty unrealistic given the rate the pitch is breaking down. Its not impossible with 3 decent bats and some hand support from Rashid, but be realistic.... the last 5 wickets cant always bail England out...and this isn't the team that had Moeen coming in at 9.
On this pitch 350+ is a pretty strong start regardless of how little faith you have in your bowlers. Setting yourselves excessive expectations will only lead to disappointment. They've ridden their luck a little to get to this point, its not going to get easier tomorrow.

Ill be (pleasantly) surprised if England do reach 400.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:18 pm

England's hunt for openers is like waiting for buses. You wait ages for one to come along then two come along at once. Earlier in the series Hameed clearly showed he has the temperament and technique to be up to the job and today his replacement Jennings also through his hat in the ring. It looks likely England will lose this series but it has offered up two possible nuggets in Hameed and Jennings. Already it is being said that England will look to line-up next summer with a batting order of Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow and Stokes.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:21 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Expecting England to pass 400 is pretty unrealistic given the rate the pitch is breaking down. Its not impossible with 3 decent bats and some hand support from Rashid, but be realistic.... the last 5 wickets cant always bail England out...and this isn't the team that had Moeen coming in at 9.
On this pitch 350+ is a pretty strong start regardless of how little faith you have in your bowlers. Setting yourselves excessive expectations will only lead to disappointment. They've ridden their luck a little to get to this point, its not going to get easier tomorrow.

Ill be (pleasantly) surprised if England do reach 400.

From here on in then 350 is competitive as the pitch is already turning nicely for the spinners. 400+ would be a bonus just now but there is no point in reigning in hopes/expectations. The less you expect to get, invariably, the less you will get.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by dummy_half on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:01 pm

Gooseberry wrote:On the 3 spinners argument...jadeja and yadav have bowled nearly half a day between them for one wicket  .
Whilst Ashwin has been pretty lethal I think this only underlines the point that it's quality bowling rather than just relying on a pitch that makes the difference.  

The two spinners England have picked are the biggest wicket taking threats they have available. As you've said the others they have would be pretty much null , and just reduce the number of over that the better ones will get to try something out.   Criticize the decision to pick containing bowlers and all rounders for the squad, but in think the decision to drop to 2 is fully justifiable.

4 seamers may seem (groan) overkill when the Indians only bowled 20 overs on day 1. But is that a reflection of poor quality and poor tactic rather than a guide to what England should be doing.
In the absence of a third spinner they have planned for long hot days and bowling first. Ball gives them.some extra pace and enables them to manage the others in short bursts. If it really isn't helping the seamers then moeen and rashid can bowl bulk overs anyway, with some support from root.

I think from what's happened in previous games and from what was available in the squad they have made the right match day picks.

Agree with much of that. If only we had a front line spinner as good as Ashwin, as I think Moeen and Rashid are at least a match for the other two Indian spinners. England's seam options are stronger than India's, especially in the absence of Shami, and with Ball and Stokes we have two who can get the speed up to about 90mph if let off the leash for short spells. From what I've seen and read, the pitch isn't as slow as some Indian strips, so there might be something in it for bowlers able to put in the big effort.

280-5 with Stokes and Buttler in could be 300-7 in half an hour tomorrow or could be 420-5 by lunch if they stay in and have a bit of luck. Buttler in particular I think is better playing positively against the turning ball, as even partial mis-hits have a chance of clearing the ropes, so I think the game is likely to move along quite quickly in the morning.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 3:07 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote: Already it is being said that England will look to line-up next summer with a batting order of Cook, Hameed, Jennings, Root, Bairstow and Stokes.

Yeah I see this as pretty likely too. Theres arguments about where Moeen fits in of course, and the open question of Buttler and the gloves. If Bairstow stays as wicket keeper then theres space for another proper batsman rather than Buttler, it does seem though that Bayliss want this change to happen. Do you want your best wicket taking spinner (Rashid) or the better bat (Moeen) or is there room for both with Moeen recognised as more a batsman than bowler, indeed theres no reason he couldn't retain a spot in the top 6 and push Stokes to 7. I certainly see him as a more realistic prospect to become a proper test class bastman than I do Stokes.

Getting ahead of ourselves a lot here, I have my reservations about Hameeds ability to nurdle soft runs and how quickly/well he will come back form the surgery. Jennings is on fire this year but will it last? As it is though the selection of the top order looks wildly different to what it did a few weeks ago let alone this time last year when people were backing Hales (who?) to come good. Lots of reasons for optimism for the future of Englands batting line up which has been depressingly woeful for a long time.


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Re: Eng in India

Post by VTR on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 4:07 pm

I'm not getting too carried away on Hameed or Jennings as yet - both have done well but we've seen the false dawns of Compton, Robson and Lyth very recently. Even Gary Ballance, though not an opener, who started well but now is unselectable

I would love Hameed and Jennings to be the real deal and have a strong top 3, but let's see how they go over a longer period. Remember Jennings could have been out for 0 and people might have been calling for the return of Ben Duckett!

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Re: Eng in India

Post by dummy_half on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 4:33 pm

VTR

I think we've seen enough from Hameed to have confidence he's the real deal - it's not just the couple of 50s, but the way he has approached different match situations and shown adaptability. There's a good temperament and a good brain as well as what looks like fundamentally sound technique, especially given that he's still a teenager.

Jennings may just be case of picking the in form guy at the right time, but he's certainly made a good first impression, and even if he does nothing else in this match and the final test I would expect him to get an opportunity in the next series, either as an opener or at 3 if Hameed is fit.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 4:44 pm

dummy_half wrote:VTR

I think we've seen enough from Hameed to have confidence he's the real deal - it's not just the couple of 50s, but the way he has approached different match situations and shown adaptability. There's a good temperament and a good brain as well as what looks like fundamentally sound technique, especially given that he's still a teenager.

Jennings may just be  case of picking the in form guy at the right time, but he's certainly made a good first impression, and even if he does nothing else in this match and the final test I would expect him to get an opportunity in the next series, either as an opener or at 3 if Hameed is fit.

Spot on.

Hameed was dropped in at the deep end against the No 1 team in the world with a crisis situation on his hands and he coped admirably for one so young. Even when batting with an injured finger and with England up against it he came in, stuck around and impressed. I cannot recall those VTR referred to being able to do that and Lyth and Robson had the luxury of getting their chances on home soil in conditions familiar to them.
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Re: Eng in India

Post by JDizzle on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 6:13 pm

Turn on the Verdict. Here Bob Willis moaning about Bairstow getting out playing the sweep. Turn off the Verdict.

Has he watched Bairstow bat at all this series? Averaging 60 whilst sweeping everything he can...

Only saw a little bit before I nipped out to work, but Keaton looked pretty useful. Playing under his eyes vs Ashwin whilst also using his height and reach well, good stuff. Both him and Moeen looked uncomfortable (very generous in Moeen's case!) against Yadav though - even on a wicket that seems to be spinning a bit more on Day 1, Shami has been a big loss.

If England can somehow get up to 400, and Rashid and Ali can bowl well and the seamers can be rotated effectively, you never know!

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Re: Eng in India

Post by wisden on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 6:13 pm

Hameed looks a class act, he is versatile, seems to be able to play shots when needed, but solid as a rock in defence, and im a huge fan of his....Jennings reminds me a lot of Marcus Treschotick, which is no bad thing, and to have a top 3 of Cook,Hameed,Jennings, would be great...however selectors didn't really like Cook and compton together because they were slow...the selectors might have that issue with these 3..? I don't have an issue with it, but the selectors might..

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Re: Eng in India

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 6:32 pm

I don't remember the strike rate but I thought that Jennings scored his hundred at a perfectly decent rate.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 6:41 pm

Cook hasn't exactly been scoring at a snails pace either - they'd be perfectly fine, and its not like we don't have naturally quicker scoring players coming in either. They've all shown they can adapt to the situation if needed as well
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Re: Eng in India

Post by wisden on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 6:44 pm

Yeah im more than happy with those guys as the top 3, im just saying, based on the selectors, previous decisions, and Bayliss's comments about Compton's S/R etc, that they may consider that..

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Re: Eng in India

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 7:00 pm

To be honest the thought had crossed my mind with regards to hameed and cook as an opening partnership. Hopefully they will be allowed to play at their own pace. The scoring rate will naturally pick up from number 4 to 8 anyway, even more so if the top three have laid a solid foundation.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 09 Dec 2016, 12:40 am

Hi folks - was away all day but just caught up with the highlights and Sky's The Verdict.

Congratulations to Jennings - he had some luck to begin with but the real art there is to make the most of it and he certainly did. Always hard to get a proper feel of the game from highlights but I sensed he became more confident and accomplished as his innings progressed.

As for Jennings' lucky breaks. Thought it was a bad miss at gully before he'd scored - the ball seemed to loop up a bit and not travel that fast, should have been held. Could also have gone lbw for 10 - got the benefit of umpire's call on where pitching but I would have anyway queried the legitimacy of his shot. Seemed half-hearted with the bat kept back, would like umpires to be expecting more of the batsman in those sort of situations and be more prepared to put their finger up.

As Key said on Verdict, ''tough balance between positivity and recklessness for England's batsmen''. However, I tended to side with Willis - he's more balanced this year with less playing to the camera - who felt we needed to be more circumspect.

Cook being stumped before lunch on day one ... come on, we don't expect or need that! Moeen then showed why he's a good biffer down the order at 7 or 8 but not a number 4. Poor shot from Bairstow as well and inappropriate at the time. All that resulted in Stokes playing a Cook-like role for his 20 odd not out at a strike rate below 30.

288/5 probably isn't bad but I would have preferred 240/3 with Stokes still to appear on day 2 and then have the freedom to play an aggressive role, something he does far more naturally and better than Cook. First innings runs are especially vital in India and so are our wickets, don't give 'em away! Ashwin is a class act - we need to look to give him respect before gifts.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Fri 09 Dec 2016, 4:15 am

Think Stokes may have been done there ? ...though as his bat hit the ground just as the ball passed it may be that he did get a faint edge as well and didn't feel it...in any case the third umpire was convinced so its 297/6
Not sure the evidence was enough to overturn the on field not out .

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Re: Eng in India

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 09 Dec 2016, 4:17 am

alfie wrote:Think Stokes may have been done there ? ...though as his bat hit the ground just as the ball passed it may be that he did get a faint edge as well and didn't feel it...in any case the third umpire was convinced so its 297/6
Not sure the evidence was enough to overturn the on field not out .
Think he's been done? Horrific third umpiring. Pathetic really, you could hear that he was bricking it
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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Fri 09 Dec 2016, 4:26 am

guildfordbat wrote:Hi folks - was away all day but just caught up with the highlights and Sky's The Verdict.

Congratulations to Jennings - he had some luck to begin with but the real art there is to make the most of it and he certainly did. Always hard to get a proper feel of the game from highlights but I sensed he became more confident and accomplished as his innings progressed.

As for Jennings' lucky breaks. Thought it was a bad miss at gully before he'd scored - the ball seemed to loop up a bit and not travel that fast, should have been held. Could also have gone lbw for 10 - got the benefit of umpire's call on where pitching but I would have anyway queried the legitimacy of his shot. Seemed half-hearted with the bat kept back, would like umpires to be expecting more of the batsman in those sort of situations and be more prepared to put their finger up.

As Key said on Verdict, ''tough balance between positivity and recklessness for England's batsmen''. However, I tended to side with Willis - he's more balanced this year with less playing to the camera - who felt we needed to be more circumspect.

Cook being stumped before lunch on day one ... come on, we don't expect or need that! Moeen then showed why he's a good biffer down the order at 7 or 8 but not a number 4. Poor shot from Bairstow as well and inappropriate at the time. All that resulted in Stokes playing a Cook-like role for his 20 odd not out at a strike rate below 30.

288/5 probably isn't bad but I would have preferred 240/3 with Stokes still to appear on day 2 and then have the freedom to play an aggressive role, something he does far more naturally and better than Cook. First innings runs are especially vital in India and so are our wickets, don't give 'em away! Ashwin is a class act - we need to look to give him respect before gifts.

Hi guildford

I tend to the view that the positivity gained more than it lost. Sure , three batsmen over reached and got out...but they also scored runs briskly enough that England managed nearly 300 in the day. And the way this pitch began to assist the spinners late in the day it may well be that the extra fifty runs gained ends up outweighing keeping a couple more wickets in hand - not that there could be any guarantee that the wickets wouldn't have fallen anyway had they resorted to more defensive play.
It is always a risk v reward choice ; and perhaps Bairstow in particular might have been more patient : but I won't condemn the approach. It has arguably already worked better than the more cautious tactics employed in the second match , for example.
Agree they must respect Ashwin. But if they just let him dominate them I fear he will take them apart anyway - just a bit slower perhaps...

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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Fri 09 Dec 2016, 4:32 am

Another review. Joss survives on umpires call ...justice I think . It looked a tight call ; but I think Kohli took a very long time to call for that - was surprised it wasn't timed out.

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Re: Eng in India

Post by alfie on Fri 09 Dec 2016, 4:36 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
alfie wrote:Think Stokes may have been done there ? ...though as his bat hit the ground just as the ball passed it may be that he did get a faint edge as well and didn't feel it...in any case the third umpire was convinced so its 297/6
Not sure the evidence was enough to overturn the on field not out .
Think he's been done? Horrific third umpiring. Pathetic really, you could hear that he was bricking it

Well he is only the reserve reserve umpire Smile

Only there because of the injury to Paul Reiffel . But yes , he was waffling around a lot. Nasser seems to think there was a deflection but I couldn't see it. And Stokes was stunned to be given.

Sometimes these third umpires seem to forget they are supposed to have absolutely rock hard evidence that the original decision was wrong...

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Re: Eng in India

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 09 Dec 2016, 4:41 am

I did feel last night that one of Stokes or Buttler would fall early today and that happened. Stokes out for 31 - a 50 partnership now for England would be like gold dust. England 313 for 6..
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Re: Eng in India

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