NIQ players 17-18

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NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 10:02 am

Guys I have rather lost track where we are re NIQ contracts for next season

Currently Ulster have Coetzee and Piatau and no Projects - where do the other provinces stand.

The reason I ask is there seems to be a lot of pressure to reduce the numbers over the next couple of years

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by marty2086 on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:06 am

Gibson Park at Leinster and Kleyn at Munster are the only ones confirmed so far it seems

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 1:38 pm

That kind of support the theory we will see less next year

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by marty2086 on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 1:41 pm

Gibson Park is a project too

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 8:11 pm

From research online, the status would appear to be:

Ulster
Louis Ludik - 3 year contract extension to June 2020 - uncapped full-back/wing- qualifies for Ireland next June.
Wiehern Herbst - 3 years in Autumn 2017 - uncapped TH prop

Franco van der Merwe - 1 year contract extension ends in June 2017 - SA capped lock
Marcel Coetzee - 3 year contract until June 2019 - SA capped flanker
Ruan Piennaar - contract ends June 2017 - SA capped scrum-half
Charles Piutau - 2 year contract ends in June 18? - NZ capped full-back/wing

Leinster
Hayden Triggs - one year contract exstension ends in June 2017 - uncapped lock.
Jamison Gibson Park - 3 year contract that ends in June 19. - uncapped scrum-half. Would qualify for Ireland in Sept/Oct 2019

Zane Kirchner - 2 year contract extension ends in June 2017 - SA capped full-back/wing
Isa Nacewa - 1 year contract extension ends June 2017 (I think) - Fiji capped full-back/wing

Munster
Rhys Marshall - 3 year contract that ends in June 2019 - uncapped hooker. Qualifies in October 2019
Jean Kleyn - 3-year contract ends in June 2019. - uncapped lock. Qualifies in Sept 2019
Tyler Bleyendaal - 3 year contract ending Nov 2017 - uncapped out-half/12. Qualifies in Nov 2017.

Francis Sailii - 2 year contract ends in June 2017 - NZ capped centre
Mark Chisholm - 2-year contract ends in June 2017. Aus capped lock

Thomas du Toit - 3 month contract - ends in December 2016
Te Aihe Toma - short-term contract - uncapped scrum half
Jaco Taute - 4 month contract ending December 2016 - uncapped centre

Connacht
Jake Heenan - 2 year contract extension ends in June 2018 - uncapped flanker - qualified for Ireland in June 2016
Bundee Aki - 3 year contract extension ends in June 2020 - uncapped centre. Qualifies for Ireland in October 2017
Tom McCartney - 3-year contract ends in June 2017. uncapped hooker. Qualifies in November 2017

Marnitz Boshoff - 2 year contract ends in June 2018 - SA capped out-half
Stacey Ili - 1 year contract - uncapped utility back
Daniel Poolman - 2-year contract extension ends in June 2017. Uncapped wing. Qualified by residency in June 2015.

Naulia Dawai - 2 year contract ends in November 2018. Fiji- capped flanker
Nepia Fox-Matamua - 2-year contract ends in June 2017 - uncapped flanker

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 8:24 pm

Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 9:02 pm

Thanks Pot re your queries:

Piatau is 2018 and he is definitely going home then - stated he want to make the 2019 World Cup squad.
Nacewa is this coming summer

As to Taute my understanding is he is definitely away as Salli returns to fitness
So ignoring Bleyendaal, who will nearly there anyway we have only 5 players in what used to be described as the 3 'senior provinces'
Should add Herbst will be Irish qualified next summer as well

Gives credence to my belief we could well be down to 4 in 17-18 and 3 in 18-19 - per province.
Not sure where Connacht are on that measure

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 9:17 pm

Agree Geoff.

You can clearly see the effects of:

Increasing salary scales for capped, high quality players - Piutau is the exception at this stage.
Tighter cost controls - at Munster in particular - therefore, they've shifted to younger inexperienced uncapped players.
Greater scrutiny by Nucifora on foreign recruitment with a view to a) using domestic players or b) uncapped players.

The 4+ 1 policy seems to have gone out the window.

Currently, based on existing contract durations
Ulster appear to have 4+2
Leinster have 2+1
Munster have 2 + 3
Connacht have 2+2.

And those will change at season end with Van der Merw, Pienaar, Nacewa, Kirchner, Sailii, Chisholm all out the door. Munster are making noises about keeping Taute, given that Sail's time is up in June next year.

There's a good interview with Nucifora on the IRFU website (about April/May I think) in which he explains the long-term strategy for Player Development up to RWC2023 and what IRFU are trying to achieve with regard to domestic pathway and project player imports.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 9:29 pm

Confused by your figures though
Ignoring short term contracts (less than a year)

Ulster are going from 4+2 to 2+0
Leinster from 2+2 to 0+1
Munster from 2+3 to 0+2 (counting Bleyendaal as Irish qualified next year)
Connacht from 2+5 to 2+2 (counting McCartney as Irish qualified next year)

Obviously some changes though - for instance I believe Ulster will get a new no 8 who could be a Project before the rules change.
But it certainly looks like the number will drop significantly

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 9:37 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Confused by your figures though
Ignoring short term contracts (less than a year)

Ulster are going from 4+2 to 2+0
Leinster from 2+2 to 0+1
Munster from 2+3 to 0+2 (counting Bleyendaal as Irish qualified next year)
Connacht from 2+5 to 2+2 (counting McCartney as Irish qualified next year)

Obviously some changes though - for instance I believe Ulster will get a new no 8 who could be a Project before the rules change.
But it certainly looks like the number will drop significantly

Yeah - you're right Geoff. I was excluding the one-year and two-year contract players.

I wonder if Pichot's Rule will take effect immediately or only for players who move after it is imposed? Residency can't be included in a contract I presume, so there's no legal fallback, or is there?
I'd hope that it takes effect immediately.



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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:28 pm

Agreed still not happy with Payne for example.

As soon as his rugby days are over he'll be on the first plane back to New Zealand.

Don't mind people like Diack though who may well stay or the likes of Andy Ward who is here for keeps - they have brought into the way of life. When you sign a player you don't know if they are a mercenary or a person who genuinely wants to stay and there is big part of the problem.

Is a change imminent though ?
I know it is being reviewed but my impression is there is a lot of resistance to any change.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Sin é on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:42 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Confused by your figures though
Ignoring short term contracts (less than a year)

Ulster are going from 4+2 to 2+0
Leinster from 2+2 to 0+1
Munster from 2+3 to 0+2 (counting Bleyendaal as Irish qualified next year)
Connacht from 2+5 to 2+2 (counting McCartney as Irish qualified next year)

Obviously some changes though - for instance I believe Ulster will get a new no 8 who could be a Project before the rules change.
But it certainly looks like the number will drop significantly

Yeah - you're right Geoff.  I was excluding the one-year and two-year contract players.

I wonder if Pichot's Rule will take effect immediately or only for players who move after it is imposed?  Residency can't be included in a contract I presume, so there's no legal fallback, or is there?
I'd hope that it takes effect immediately.


That hasn't materialised yet, has it? I thought they were just going to discuss changing it first.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by profitius on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:43 pm

Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps ( Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.


formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.


I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Sin é on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:48 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed still not happy with Payne for example.

As soon as his rugby days are over he'll be on the first plane back to New Zealand.

Don't mind people like Diack though who may well stay or the likes of Andy Ward who is here for keeps - they have brought into the way of life. When you sign a player you don't know if they are a mercenary or a person who genuinely wants to stay and there is big part of the problem.

Is a change imminent though ?
I know it is being reviewed but my impression is there is a lot of resistance to any change.

I think you are being a bit harsh on players needing to stick around to really buy into the place. I can think of lots of players who ''bought into Munster/Ireland'' but returned home after their stint here - guys like Shaun Payne, Jim Langford, Jim Williams, Jason Holland. I suspect that CJ Stander will return to SA when he finishes with rugby because he will want to return to the family farm in SA, but no one should ever accuse him of not buying into the place.


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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:52 pm

Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia. It might suit some countries like Canada or US. With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen. Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed. I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if. There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents. I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Sin é on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:53 pm

profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.


formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.


I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Sin é on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:55 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia.   It might suit some countries like Canada or US.   With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen.  Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed.  I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.  

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if.   There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents.  I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

Countries like Samoa and Fiji wouldn't be happy about that rule. It wouldn't suit many of the Irish exiles either.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 12 Dec 2016, 11:58 pm

Sin é wrote:
profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.


formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.


I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).

There's a young Ukranian prop who's come through schools/club/academy in Connacht....

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by profitius on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 12:17 am

Sin é wrote:
profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.


formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.


I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).


Huh? What country's props would you swap Furlong and McGrath for?

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Sin é on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 12:45 am

profitius wrote:
Sin é wrote:
profitius wrote:Yeah I can see the IRFU looking to reduce NIQs further. Just had a look at the Ireland 2015 JWC U20 squad and I'd say about 4 players have more than 10 provincial caps (  Carbery, Arnold, Stockdale and Ringrose). So there's still a strong backlog of home grown players so I can foresee less need to fill any gaps in the squad with NIQs or project players. Nucifora said it a few months back. Basically the IRFU would prefer less quantity of foreign players but more quality. So maybe 2 high profile signings instead of 5 or 6 average ones.


formerly known as Sam wrote:Presumably there's going to be less project players coming in because there's a good chance the residency rules will change.

I'm guessing Munster will want to extend Jaco Taute. He looked good against us at the weekend.


I don't think residency rules will change. All northern hemisphere teams are benefiting from them and unsurprisingly the Australians said they don't want it to change. I don't see and will to change although there is some outside pressure.

I think there are a couple of positions where foreign genes maybe required (like prop and lock).


Huh? What country's props would you swap Furlong and McGrath for?
Furlong and McGrath can't play for four Provinces. We need fourteen more McGraths & Furlongs to compete. Probably do ok at loosehead, but TH is a different kettle of fish.


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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by profitius on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 1:11 am

At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.


From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.


Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 8:47 am

Well I reckon Ulster have a TH well worth keeping in Herbst - honestly would not be surprised if he is Furlongs backup in a year or two - he is the real deal.
Also Bealham is a lot better than he is given credit for

Munster could do with a decent TH though

LH looks good ok.
IN truth we are better served at prop than we have been for years.

Lock is more of a problem we only have Toner, Henderson and Dillane.
Very reliant on Ryan who is now 33

After that a big gulf

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Golden on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 10:01 am

profitius wrote:At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.


From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.


Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

Absolutely every one of those props has another 5 years at least injuries permitting. Its amazing the difference in quality of players when the IRFU turn their attention to a specific position. Scrum half needs to be next.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 10:06 am

Forgot about Ryan so all 4 provinces will have a decent IQ TH next year - we are in clover

LH not only those listed don't underestimate McCall he is going to be a good one as well
The 2 boys at Leinster and Buckley will do see us right for the next few years

I'd go further Irleland has never before been so blessed with such depth at prop

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Sin é on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 10:49 am

profitius wrote:At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.

From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.

Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

Of the THs you mention, only Furlong and Ryan are homegrown (the rest are getting on a bit or have yet to prove themselves). My point is that we do throw up one or two decent front row players every 10/12 years, but we need more and that is why we will still be reliant on granny rule at least for some positions.



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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 11:02 am

Herbst and Bealham are 28 and 25 respectively and both are fine prospects and both, next year, Irish qualified.
I'd back both to make it as a more than adequate backups to Furlong.
If we get desperate always offer Moore a contract to come home

Yes we have to look at prospects - Ulster have at least one in Kane but lets see what develops before playing the Project card.

We are fine compared to previous years when it was Hayes, Best as backup and then a total fall off a cliff.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 11:06 am

Sin é wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Agreed still not happy with Payne for example.

As soon as his rugby days are over he'll be on the first plane back to New Zealand.

Don't mind people like Diack though who may well stay or the likes of Andy Ward who is here for keeps - they have brought into the way of life. When you sign a player you don't know if they are a mercenary or a person who genuinely wants to stay and there is big part of the problem.

Is a change imminent though ?
I know it is being reviewed but my impression is there is a lot of resistance to any change.

I think you are being a bit harsh on players needing to stick around to really buy into the place. I can think of lots of players who ''bought into Munster/Ireland'' but returned home after their stint here - guys like Shaun Payne, Jim Langford, Jim Williams, Jason Holland. I suspect that CJ Stander will return to SA when he finishes with rugby because he will want to return to the family farm in SA, but no one should ever accuse him of not buying into the place.


He is an outstanding player, he is an asset to the team but I don't accept this 'buying into the place'

Stander and Payne are paid well, saw the prospect of international rugby and will go home as soon as the career is over.
Neither is a Irishman at heart and that is what is wrong with the residency system.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by brennomac on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 12:57 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Ireland, France, Scotland are benefiting from it the most and Australia.   It might suit some countries like Canada or US.   With the revised voting allocations in World Rugby, I can see how it might happen.  Argentina, SA, NZ are likely to be opposed.  I don't think it would make any difference to England if it changed, they have plenty of depth.  

In fact, I think Pichot's Rule will be a case of when not if.   There's also talk of the grandparent rule being dropped as well, and make it only parents.  I think this would be more difficult, since it would conflict with passport/citizenship criteria in many countries.

I can't see how Pichot's rule could supercede the legalities of Irish citizenship through grandparentage. Quite simply, anybody from overseas with one Irish grandparent is fully entitled to apply for Irish citizenship (I have a Canadian niece in that exact situation who has done just that) with all the accompanying rights. If World Rugby tried to abolish the grandparentage qualification, they would be entering a legal minefield - can't see it happen. Can certainly see though the three year rule being extended to five and to be honest have no great issue with that.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 1:16 pm

That would be my take - any change will not touch the granny rule only the residency one.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 13 Dec 2016, 3:30 pm

Given the above list, we're nearly at the stage where the IRFU can reveal their secret plan to recreate the missing fifth/province - Cúige Mhí.  Starring:

15 Louis Ludik
14 Danie Poolman
13 Jared Payne
12 Bundee Aki
11 Stacey Ilii
10 Tyler Bleyendaal
9 Jamison Gibson Park
8 CJ Stander
7 Jake Heenan
6 Nepia Fox Matamua
5 Jean Kleyn
4 Quinn Roux
3 Weihahn Herbst
2 Tom McCartney
1 Rodney Ah You

16 Rhys Marshall
17 Michael Bent
18 Ivan Soroka
19 James Cannon
20 Robbie Diack
21 TBA
22 TBA
23 TBA

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by profitius on Wed 14 Dec 2016, 7:19 pm

Sin é wrote:
profitius wrote:At tightheads we have Furlong, Bealham, Ryan, Ross, Moore, Carey, Bent with more on the way.

Loose head McGrath, Healy, Kilcoyne, James Cronin, Buckley with Dooley and Porter coming through.

From that list only Ross is and old prop. The problem (if you think there is one) was that Irish rugby ignored scrummaging for years and have addressed that problem. If anything we're a good scrummaging nation now.

Theres plenty of second rows around too so I don't see a problem there either. The main problem area for Ireland is scrum half and hooker and they're more technical positions.

Of the THs you mention, only Furlong and Ryan are homegrown (the rest are getting on a bit or have yet to prove themselves). My point is that we do throw up one or two decent front row players every 10/12 years, but we need more and that is why we will still be reliant on granny rule at least for some positions.


Furlong, Bealham and Ryan in the last year alone. In the next year we might see Niall Scannell step up.

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 14 Dec 2016, 8:20 pm

And as I mentioned a couple of Ulster boys will come into the mix next year.
What has changed in the last few years is a steady stream of decent props.
If required we have Moore and McAllister playing regularly in England

Hooker is more of problem than Prop - big drop off from Best to Cronin for example

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by geoff999rugby Yesterday at 12:25 pm

What is the latest news re other Provinces.

Ulster looks like 3+1 Coetzee, Piatau, Botha + kiwi LH

geoff999rugby

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Join date : 2012-01-19

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by profitius Yesterday at 2:02 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:What is the latest news re other Provinces.

Ulster looks like 3+1 Coetzee, Piatau, Botha + kiwi LH

Munster look like
Kleyn, Marshall and possibly Taute.

Leinster
Hard to know if Nacewa will be still playing there next season. Looks like Kitchener will be off. That leaves Trigger and Gibson-Park.

Connacht.
I'm not sure what the story is there but they will fill up their quota.

profitius

Posts : 3567
Join date : 2012-01-25

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Re: NIQ players 17-18

Post by Sponsored content Today at 8:10 pm


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