Ulster 2016/2017

First topic message reminder :

Well the danger is always that life happens and he might refocus his entire life after two years in France.... were he to go.

SecretFly wrote:Plus...the more south you go, the more subtropical the climate...

As Belfast freezes in Summer at a frigid 17°C, Dublin is positively basking at 17.8°C.  And as for Cork and those places, scorching at 18.2°C!

The weather is indeed intolerable - that drives the general attitude of your average Ulsterperson.
Anyone even contemplating moving north would do well to remember that Ulster still says NO. Don't mention any 'ism', especially sectarianism, nationalism, loyalism, patriotism, racism antidisestablishmentarianism, or even schism or prism. Steer well clear of anything with a phobe or a phile suffix as that won't be tolerated by someone who is a friend of someone you don't want to meet (nod and wink). Don't come north if you don't have a well practised Norn Irn accent - it simply won't be tolerated, and you'll be found out for being the dirty, interloping, untrustworthy, conniving taker of the Queen's shilling you are.

Other than that if you can play a bit of rugby you're very welcome.

Forget bringing Ruan back as a coach when he retires, we should send him south as an ambassador to talk all those godless southerners and espouse the virtues of Ulster

The Great Aukster wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Plus...the more south you go, the more subtropical the climate...

As Belfast freezes in Summer at a frigid 17°C, Dublin is positively basking at 17.8°C.  And as for Cork and those places, scorching at 18.2°C!

The weather is indeed intolerable - that drives the general attitude of your average Ulsterperson.
Anyone even contemplating moving north would do well to remember that Ulster still says NO. Don't mention any 'ism', especially sectarianism, nationalism, loyalism, patriotism, racism antidisestablishmentarianism, or even schism or prism. Steer well clear of anything with a phobe or a phile suffix as that won't be tolerated by someone who is a friend of someone you don't want to meet (nod and wink). Don't come north if you don't have a well practised Norn Irn accent - it simply won't be tolerated, and you'll be found out for being the dirty, interloping, untrustworthy, conniving taker of the Queen's shilling you are.

Other than that if you can play a bit of rugby you're very welcome.

Ach Jaysis - a load of Southerners pooing their pants about living somewhere culturally different, but where being Irish is nothing special. Man up, Mexicans.

<This is said in jest, Your Honour>

The Great Aukster wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Plus...the more south you go, the more subtropical the climate...

As Belfast freezes in Summer at a frigid 17°C, Dublin is positively basking at 17.8°C.  And as for Cork and those places, scorching at 18.2°C!

The weather is indeed intolerable

We've got a very good renewable heat incentive scheme though.

Don Alfonso wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:

SecretFly wrote:Plus...the more south you go, the more subtropical the climate...

As Belfast freezes in Summer at a frigid 17°C, Dublin is positively basking at 17.8°C.  And as for Cork and those places, scorching at 18.2°C!

The weather is indeed intolerable - that drives the general attitude of your average Ulsterperson.
Anyone even contemplating moving north would do well to remember that Ulster still says NO. Don't mention any 'ism', especially sectarianism, nationalism, loyalism, patriotism, racism antidisestablishmentarianism, or even schism or prism. Steer well clear of anything with a phobe or a phile suffix as that won't be tolerated by someone who is a friend of someone you don't want to meet (nod and wink). Don't come north if you don't have a well practised Norn Irn accent - it simply won't be tolerated, and you'll be found out for being the dirty, interloping, untrustworthy, conniving taker of the Queen's shilling you are.

Other than that if you can play a bit of rugby you're very welcome.

Ach Jaysis - a load of Southerners pooing their pants about living somewhere culturally different, but where being Irish is nothing special. Man up, Mexicans.

<This is said in jest, Your Honour>

I never understood about southerners being Mexicans, in truth us being Canadians is a much better fit.
Like Canada its colder, we're tied to the UK (which some are not overly happy with in both), have a smaller population, and Donegal is then very much like Alaska (even has the same northwest, cutoff from the rest location).

Think Man up, Yankees. is better.

Well, it's done now. Mexicans it is.

Kingshu wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:
Ach Jaysis - a load of Southerners pooing their pants about living somewhere culturally different, but where being Irish is nothing special. Man up, Mexicans.

<This is said in jest, Your Honour>

I never understood about southerners being Mexicans, in truth us being Canadians is a much better fit.
Like Canada its colder, we're tied to the UK (which some are not overly happy with in both), have a smaller population, and Donegal is then very much like Alaska (even has the same northwest, cutoff from the rest location).

Think Man up, Yankees. is better.

Does that make Munster Texas?

Kingshu wrote:

I never understood about southerners being Mexicans, in truth us being Canadians is a much better fit.
Like Canada its colder, we're tied to the UK (which some are not overly happy with in both), have a smaller population, and Donegal is then very much like Alaska (even has the same northwest, cutoff from the rest location).

Think Man up, Yankees. is better.

Well.....

First, we're bandits.  No evidence required.  

We have an easy attitude to work...ie, we're lazy; we work when we bother to show up and only in between the hourly tea break siestas.

Alternatively, we're also hard workers when we feel like it and there ain't nobody that could outwork us in physical bullschidt hard-labour jobs when someone suggests we could be outworked.  We like the idea of having a heart attack before losing a bet.  

We smile a lot and are talkative but don't let that fool you coz if you cross us, we turn like a rattlesnake and strike hard.

We do cheap tarmac deals that don't always get to the depth in inches that we claim it'll get to.

We leave after getting paid and before finishing.

We drink as much as everyone else but still get tagged as the heavier drinkers.

We're Mexicans sure enough.

While that is a compellingly thorough analysis, all anyone really cares about is that you're South of the border.

Mucho gracias, senor Alfonso.

SecretFly wrote:

Kingshu wrote:

I never understood about southerners being Mexicans, in truth us being Canadians is a much better fit.
Like Canada its colder, we're tied to the UK (which some are not overly happy with in both), have a smaller population, and Donegal is then very much like Alaska (even has the same northwest, cutoff from the rest location).

Think Man up, Yankees. is better.

Well.....

First, we're bandits.  No evidence required.  

We have an easy attitude to work...ie, we're lazy; we work when we bother to show up and only in between the hourly tea break siestas.

Alternatively, we're also hard workers when we feel like it and there ain't nobody that could outwork us in physical bullschidt hard-labour jobs when someone suggests we could be outworked.  We like the idea of having a heart attack before losing a bet.  

We smile a lot and are talkative but don't let that fool you coz if you cross us, we turn like a rattlesnake and strike hard.

We do cheap tarmac deals that don't always get to the depth in inches that we claim it'll get to.

We leave after getting paid and before finishing.

We drink as much as everyone else but still get tagged as the heavier drinkers.

We're Mexicans sure enough.

Thats settled then, we're going to have to build a super big wall, and send you the bill, also going to cut funding to Crossmaglen and the like that lets them sneak in.

Tired of all these Mexicans sneaking up to play for Ulster.

Actually we want them here, down with the wall

Too late...we already paid for it!

We'll just get Westminster to pay our share like we do with everything else

Peter Nelson was back in action today for Ballynahinch, great to see after so long out

neilthom7 wrote:Peter Nelson was back in action today for Ballynahinch, great to see after so long out

How did he do?

Just in the nick of time, given Jacko's going to be in Dublin for the next couple of months.

Ominous noises on the other forum about one of our big names being off. Wouldn't be surprised if ti was Luke Marshall. Doesn't seem to be rated by Schimdt and talented enough that any number of French teams or English teams would be in for him. And he has plenty of competition at Ulster (although he's obviously first choice 13 for us currently).

Just as well Nelsons back as Jackson hasnt signed a new contract yet

Don Alfonso wrote:Just in the nick of time, given Jacko's going to be in Dublin for the next couple of months.

Ominous noises on the other forum about one of our big names being off. Wouldn't be surprised if ti was Luke Marshall. Doesn't seem to be rated by Schimdt and talented enough that any number of French teams or English teams would be in for him. And he has plenty of competition at Ulster (although he's obviously first choice 13 for us currently).

The combination of losing a centre and Farrell going to Munster rather than 'home' could potentially tip me over the edge. But nowhere near as much as if the news was Paddy leaving...

carpet baboon wrote:

neilthom7 wrote:Peter Nelson was back in action today for Ballynahinch, great to see after so long out

How did he do?

No idea just seen he played on Facebook

If Paddy leaves, it's all over.

He'd be mad to go IMHO. Sexton is held together with sticky tape and there's only Carberry anywhere near the same level. But recent off-field troubles may have spurred him to look elsewhere.

I do think he'd be crazy to go.

Don Alfonso wrote:Just in the nick of time, given Jacko's going to be in Dublin for the next couple of months.

Ominous noises on the other forum about one of our big names being off. Wouldn't be surprised if ti was Luke Marshall. Doesn't seem to be rated by Schimdt and talented enough that any number of French teams or English teams would be in for him. And he has plenty of competition at Ulster (although he's obviously first choice 13 for us currently).

I'd be very surprise.
I would expect Luke Marshall to be retained by Schmidt unlike Bowe, Gilroy and McCloskey doesn't even make the squad.
Anyway Luke already contracted for next year.

The big names still to sign are Jackson and Gilroy +Black, Lutton and Marshall all of whom I would expect to go.

We will have a LH project from the southern hemisphere - not a big name

Don Alfonso wrote:If Paddy leaves, it's all over.

He'd be mad to go IMHO. Sexton is held together with sticky tape and there's only Carberry anywhere near the same level. But recent off-field troubles may have spurred him to look elsewhere.

I do think he'd be crazy to go.

Sadly I don't - he will be an exception to the rule re playing elsewhere ala Easterby, Murphy, Bowe, Sexton and he knows it.
If the IRFU want him to stay they must give him a Central Contract simply as.

geoff999rugby wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Just in the nick of time, given Jacko's going to be in Dublin for the next couple of months.

Ominous noises on the other forum about one of our big names being off. Wouldn't be surprised if ti was Luke Marshall. Doesn't seem to be rated by Schimdt and talented enough that any number of French teams or English teams would be in for him. And he has plenty of competition at Ulster (although he's obviously first choice 13 for us currently).

I'd be very surprise.
I would expect Luke Marshall to be retained by Schmidt unlike Bowe, Gilroy and McCloskey doesn't even make the squad.
Anyway Luke already contracted for next year.

The big names still to sign are Jackson and Gilroy +Black, Lutton and Marshall all of whom I would expect to go.

We will have a LH project from the southern hemisphere - not a big name

Really??

Been away a couple of weeks and just correcting some misconceptions I've read.

1 - The resigning of Ludik had absolutely no bearing on Ruan going as someone implied.
He was signed because Schmidt had a big concerned about 15 - injury prone Kearney and Zebo and after that no one he had faith in.
Wanted to keep Payne at 13 so was looking for a solid backup player - Ludik fits the bill.

2 - The signing of Piatau may well seemed superfluous but it was him or nothing.
There was no way we were going to be allowed a player from 1 to 9 - it was a back or no one.

3 - Farrell and Scholes were offered good contracts and chose to go.
Farrell didn't fancy the competition in the centre and Scholes decided he was a 15, Ulster didn't they saw him as a wing (I agree with
Ulster).
Seymour a bit different he wanted to play international rugby and realised Scotland was a more likely chance, Ulster goodbye then
as you cannot have one of the NIQ slots.

4 - Not one of the southern players offered contract would have been out of pocket at Ulster, all offered good contracts .
Saw mentioned maybe same as Diack or Ross - not even close far more and often double what those guys are getting.
The reason they chose to stay was nothing to do with money.

Saw some figure mentioned here re salaries - wide of the mark - too low.

clivemcl wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:Just in the nick of time, given Jacko's going to be in Dublin for the next couple of months.

Ominous noises on the other forum about one of our big names being off. Wouldn't be surprised if ti was Luke Marshall. Doesn't seem to be rated by Schimdt and talented enough that any number of French teams or English teams would be in for him. And he has plenty of competition at Ulster (although he's obviously first choice 13 for us currently).

I'd be very surprise.
I would expect Luke Marshall to be retained by Schmidt unlike Bowe, Gilroy and McCloskey doesn't even make the squad.
Anyway Luke already contracted for next year.

The big names still to sign are Jackson and Gilroy +Black, Lutton and Marshall all of whom I would expect to go.

We will have a LH project from the southern hemisphere - not a big name

Really??

Should clarify I meant Black, Lutton and Marshall to go not Gilroy and Jackson.
Having said that I would not be certain about those two either.

My error Craig Gilroy is contracted till 2018 so he ain't going nowhere.

Means he will, almost certainly stay, given Piatau will be away then and the age of Bowe and Trimble at that point

Gilroy is an interesting one. We had such high hopes for him. What's everyone's opinion of his career ceiling at this point?
He really needs a good run of games to get him back on track.

clivemcl wrote:Gilroy is an interesting one. We had such high hopes for him. What's everyone's opinion of his career ceiling at this point?
He really needs a good run of games to get him back on track.

I think he's had an excellent career for Ulster considering he's had to compete with Trimble and Bowe, two of Ulsters greatest ever players, for most of it.

He's achieved more than Conway, who was probably more impressive at u-20's, but will probably be disappointed he hasn't kicked on the way Zebo has after impressing so much in his first few caps.

clivemcl wrote:Gilroy is an interesting one. We had such high hopes for him. What's everyone's opinion of his career ceiling at this point?
He really needs a good run of games to get him back on track.

He's in the Daverage Zone. A valiant soldier but right now, a big risk of being forgotten and consumed by the damn pups clogging up the system.

Next year is key for him.
2018-19 will open for him, with departures, and he needs to be in pole position to take advantage.

Someone who is usually reliable on the UAFC site reckons Payne may never play again.

Don't know about that but you certainly will not see him again this year

geoff999rugby wrote:Someone who is usually reliable on the UAFC site reckons Payne may never play again.

Don't know about that but you certainly will not see him again this year

Anyone got Rory Scholes' phone number and An Idiots Guide to Grovelling?

geoff999rugby wrote:Someone who is usually reliable on the UAFC site reckons Payne may never play again.

Don't know about that but you certainly will not see him again this year

That would track with what I was told a few weeks ago, apparently Payne was bedridden until the New Year and 'is lucky to be alive' the injury was that bad

Dismissed it at the time because we were told he would be back for the end of the 6Ns and know he'd just flown back to NZ

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this an injury that was initially mis diagnosed. I wonder if Payne is talking with his lawyers.

Don't think it was misdiagnosed, I do know he came out of the Wallabies game with quiet a few injuries though

Wouldn't touch Scholes with a barge pole - made his bed he can lie in it.
Anyway given what we have now we don't need him.

We have a bit of history of less than stella treatment by Ireland of our players when injured.
Has happened to Trimble, Henderson and Ferris in the past.

I had been told that news about Payne shortly after the Australia game but had tried my best to forget it. He's had zero luck with injuries since he came to Ulster, remember his first season here was rehab. I do hope he can recover fully and sod the rugby, his long term health being the important thing. Gutted for him.

All that being said I just saw this from the Irish times yesterday:
"That said, Ireland’s injury profile is, collectively, quite healthy. Schmidt is hopeful that Jared Payne may recover from the kidney injury he suffered against Australia at some point in the tournament, as should Joey Carbery, although the hamstrung Sean Cronin has been ruled out for the duration, while Andrew Conway (groin) is the only absentee this week in their Carton House base from the original 40-man squad."

The Irish times is a talking through its arse.

If Payne plays at all this year he will be compromising his long term health.

A disfunctioning kidney is not to be taken likely.
Now as I say it is not, necessarily career ending, but it needs to be very carefully managed.
Put his feet up and no contact training till August is what he should do

geoff999rugby wrote:The Irish times is a talking through its arse.

If Payne plays at all this year he will be compromising his long term health.

A disfunctioning kidney is not to be taken likely.
Now as I say it is not, necessarily career ending, but it needs to be very carefully managed.
Put his feet up and no contact training till August is what he should do

I'd agree there Geoff, not something you'd want to roll the dice on. That being said so we know how serious the injury was or how much it's recovered? If it was lacerated you'd expect the recovery to take quite some time. Fingers crossed.

I'd assume Joe is only keeping a player, who is probably anxious to get back, optimistic on the recovery front. Players always feel they are ready to pop back in as soon as the initial pain goes. I'm sure Joe has enough medical people around him to know a kidney injury is outside his pay grade to advise on.

AOC's brother is signing for us as a back rower.

Great news, he is a real prospect much better than Dow for example.
He and Rea should be capable of providing decent back up.

As an aside it increases my conviction that not only Henderson but Diack as well will be full time Locks.

Backrow now shaping up as
starters                             Botha, Coetzee, Henry, Reidy
backup                               Ross
younsters                           Rea, O'Connor, Dow
waste of a contract           Joyce, Mulholland

Second row
starters                              Henderson, Browne, Treadwell, AOC (sometimes)
backup                                                   Diack
youngsters                                              Donnan

Will we see the youngsters get more game time though Geoff?

Still think we need probably an extra body or two in there to cover injuries and call ups as we could well see Botha, Coetzee and Henderson being away, AOC isn't always able to play and if enough backrowers make the Lions squad or get injured then Reidy may well be away over the summer with Ireland and unavailable early on in the season

What about Thompson? Think I remember someone, possibly you, saying he was a bigger prospect than Donnan

marty2086 wrote: Will we see the youngsters get more game time though Geoff?

Well depends on the coaches - O'Connor certainly hasn't come here to play in the reserves and if Rea isn't given a chance it will be criminal

marty2086 wrote:Still think we need probably an extra body or two in there to cover injuries and call ups as we could well see Botha, Coetzee and Henderson being away, AOC isn't always able to play and if enough backrowers make the Lions squad or get injured then Reidy may well be away over the summer with Ireland and unavailable early on in the season

Don't thing Botha or Coetzee will be away
I doubt Reidy or indeed Henry will be away unless both De Flier and TOD are injured.
At most Ireland will have Stander, Heaslip and SOB with the Lions

marty2086 wrote:What about Thompson? Think I remember someone, possibly you, saying he was a bigger prospect than Donnan

Seems to had disappeared

The way Marcells debut is being hyped should we start a pool for what minute he goes off injured?

marty2086 wrote:The way Marcells debut is being hyped should we start a pool for what minute he goes off injured?

The build up to his return is reminiscent of Ferris. Let's hope he lasts a little longer, but also has the same immediate impact! Ferris' smash and drive on his return will live long in my memory!

Apparently Olding, Nelson and Herbst are all fit to play too. Does Nelson start at 10 from the off? After such a long time out? Doubtful.

Will any of the returnees start, or will they be eased in?

clivemcl wrote:

marty2086 wrote:The way Marcells debut is being hyped should we start a pool for what minute he goes off injured?

The build up to his return is reminiscent of Ferris. Let's hope he lasts a little longer, but also has the same immediate impact! Ferris' smash and drive on his return will live long in my memory!

Lets hope so it'll be one way to warm the place up as its meant to be colder come Friday but watching Ferris' still give me goosebumps

clivemcl wrote:Apparently Olding, Nelson and Herbst are all fit to play too. Does Nelson start at 10 from the off? After such a long time out? Doubtful.

Will any of the returnees start, or will they be eased in?

Hopefully those 3 start on the bench but can see Herbst start when it looks like we should be managing him a bit more as he does seems injury prone

I was saying that this morning, that Marcel can make as immediate and inspiring impact for us as Ferris did that night.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ry8PZINojgo

I would start Nelson at 10 not Herron.

Played against each other last week 'Hinch v 'Mena and totally outclassed him.

The more I see of Nelson I reckon he is a potentially excellent 10 - maybe not Paddy level but better than someone like Keatley which isn't bad.
Herron on the other hand just doesn't have what it takes - he is coming up short.

A player I doubted earlier in the year has really developed - Treadwell.
He was thrown in at the deep end and swam.

My team (I have no insight on this) - Warwick, Andrew, Herbst (could be fit), Browne, Treadwell, Coetzee, Reidy, Henry
Shanahan, Nelson, Gilroy, McCloskey, Cave, Piatau, Ludik
Bench: Black, Murphy, Ah You (if fit otherwise Lutton), De Merwe, Diack or Ross, Marshall, Olding (could be fit), Stockdale