England training squad this week

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England training squad this week

Post by lostinwales on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 3:28 pm

Brothers Vunipola missing, as is Joe Launchbury. Mike Williams back in with yet another chance to break his arm. Various other players who missed the AI also back. Beeb picks up on Nathan Catt's inclusion also

Tuilagi back in. Given his current physical state I am just hoping that its not kill or cure, or that Jones doesn't give up on him given he's probably not fully fit yet. Usual 2 scrum halves, Alex Lozowski also in for more experience.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38477218

Forwards: Josh Beaumont (Sale Sharks), Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Chris Robshaw (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs: Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te'o (Worcester Warriors), Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by rosbif on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 3:43 pm

Interesting Goode and Slade are dropped does that mean Elliot is the FB sub, is Teo really better than Slade and is Tullagi worth the risk and does his form merit inclusion .

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by robbo277 on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 3:54 pm

The 45 man EPS has also been announced and I think the biggest omission is Alex Goode from the 45. It will be interesting to see if Jones is thinking of Daly there as he mooted, now his first choice wingers are back. Can see Daly slotting straight back in to the 23 spot.

22 shirt will be interesting. Te'o is in possession but he could also look at Manu or Loxowski as a different type of player.

You'd expect Marler to replace Mako and Hughes to replace Billy for the time they are out, with Mullan up onto the bench. Is Genge still I'm the picture? It will be interesting to see if Wood keeps his place though. Is Haskell back yet? With Williams returning and being ahead before the Autumn series.

Finally, if Launchbury is out you'd epect Itoje, Kruis and Lawes to be in the 3 second row shirts in the matchday squad.

Marler, Hartley, Cole, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Haskell, Hughes.
Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, Watson, Brown.
George, Mullan, Sinckler, Lawes, Williams, Care, Tuilagi, Daly.

Good enough to go back to back?

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by lostinwales on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 4:00 pm

rosbif wrote:Interesting Goode and Slade are  dropped  does that mean Elliot is the FB sub, is Teo really better than Slade  and is Tullagi  worth the risk and does his form merit inclusion .

I sincerely hope Daly is the FB sub. I think in the short term he's turning into a universal sticky plaster but I and others suspect that FB might be his best position. With Watson back I think Daly will go back to the bench. (wings to be May and Watson with Nowell 1st choice backup) but everyone wants him involved. This 6N might be too early but I would not at all be surprised if Daly takes over from Brown,

I don't think Te'o is necessarily better than Slade. I suspect Slade isn't on best form at the moment, especially given Exeter's relatively poor season, but the biggest reason must be what Te'o does as opposed to Slade. Jones really seems to like his heavy duty game changing late subs and that probably means Te'o over Slade, and of course the inclusion of Tuilagi

As for our pet Samoan bowling ball I don't think he has form or is worth the risk, but he is (well, was and hopefully will be again) a true game changer on his day. Jones might be very interested in seeing if he can get a good 20 minutes out of Tuilagi from the bench.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 4:23 pm

Didn't slave go off injured last week? Hasn't made today's game.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 4:24 pm

Slade rather than slave.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by rosbif on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 4:39 pm

Slade has a neck/shoulder knock not serious so having a rest

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Cumbrian on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 5:11 pm

robbo277 wrote:The 45 man EPS has also been announced and I think the biggest omission is Alex Goode from the 45. It will be interesting to see if Jones is thinking of Daly there as he mooted, now his first choice wingers are back. Can see Daly slotting straight back in to the 23 spot.

22 shirt will be interesting. Te'o is in possession but he could also look at Manu or Loxowski as a different type of player.

You'd expect Marler to replace Mako and Hughes to replace Billy for the time they are out, with Mullan up onto the bench. Is Genge still I'm the picture? It will be interesting to see if Wood keeps his place though. Is Haskell back yet? With Williams returning and being ahead before the Autumn series.

Finally, if Launchbury is out you'd epect Itoje, Kruis and Lawes to be in the 3 second row shirts in the matchday squad.

Marler, Hartley, Cole, Itoje, Kruis, Robshaw, Haskell, Hughes.
Youngs, Ford, Nowell, Farrell, Joseph, Watson, Brown.
George, Mullan, Sinckler, Lawes, Williams, Care, Tuilagi, Daly.

Good enough to go back to back?


It is a good side, obviously losing the Vunipolas isn't ideal, but we've got decent backups to compensate. Mind you, things may start getting a little dicey if Marler and/or Hughes get injured. Catt is a decent premiership player, but I am not sure how he will go at international level.
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Re: England training squad this week

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 5:38 pm

Manu back in the squad?

I do hope he is in on merit, is fully fit, and not on reputation.

Surprised Goode is not in.

Never thought i would say this about the England coach. in Eddie Jones we trust, to pick the best player/s for the squad.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 5:50 pm

Is the guys name above for the 6ns? or is it just a training team for those who might get selection for the 6ns?

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Gooseberry on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 6:09 pm

Im surprised tonsee Tuilagi back but Jones has rated him based on what he was doing a few years ago. If he can get a run of fitness together and alongside a more functional team than the current Tigers he could rediscover that x factor.
The spare scrum half and a few of the forwards are unexpected, as perhaps are a couple of the people given the boot. It does seem that Slade is the latest in a long line of Internet favourites that coachez dont care for

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Poorfour on Sat 31 Dec 2016, 9:40 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Is the guys name above for the 6ns? or is it just a training team for those who might get selection for the 6ns?

The training camp is about preparing for France, so these are the guys in pole position for the 6N, but he can draw on the wider EPS at any time. However, he's said before that a lot of the names in the EPS are longer term development players.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by majesticimperialman on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 5:37 pm

Manu went off today with what looked like a serious knee injury. Hope he it not too bad.

If he does not make it for the training team, who will take his place?

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by nlpnlp on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 11:23 pm

Rokko has apparently replaced him - obviously not a like for like, but a reward for his recent good form with Bath. I think the injuries for Manu have come too often now for him to be relied upon. Which makes Farrell and Joseph the go to guys with Daly and Te'o as the reserves.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 01 Jan 2017, 11:45 pm

Robshaw hurt his arm in yesterday's match. he ought to have come off but stayed on until half time. Quins don't know how serious it might be yet.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by king_carlos on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 12:24 am

Roko being called up leaves 5 wingers and 1 full back in the training squad. I think it's safe to assume that Jones must view Watson and/or Nowell as full back options.

11.May 14.Nowell 15.Watson

That would be a fantastic back three to build towards.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 1:56 am

king_carlos wrote:Roko being called up leaves 5 wingers and 1 full back in the training squad. I think it's safe to assume that Jones must view Watson and/or Nowell as full back options...
Perhaps Daly too.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Poorfour on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 2:19 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Robshaw hurt his arm in yesterday's match. he ought to have come off but stayed on until half time. Quins don't know how serious it might be yet.

Well, that'll make Stuart Barnes and Stephen Jones happy. I'd heard he was injured - didn't realise he'd played on (though Quins had already lost two other forwards by that point, I believe, so he may not have felt he had much option).

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by B91212 on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 3:34 pm

king_carlos wrote:Roko being called up leaves 5 wingers and 1 full back in the training squad. I think it's safe to assume that Jones must view Watson and/or Nowell as full back options.

11.May 14.Nowell 15.Watson

That would be a fantastic back three to build towards.
I agree that looks a great back 3, although I wonder if Daly is classed as the second choice 15 before Watson in this training squad? Didn't EJ say at one point that he felt Watson could become a world class winger in a couple of years time before or during the Aus tour?

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by lostinwales on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 5:10 pm

Back three we are a bit spoilt for choice. Watson is arguably the most talented of the lot yet right now he has the most to prove. By all accounts Nowell played very well this weekend

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Scottrf on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 5:20 pm

Nowell is the most complete winger for me. Would definitely start with him. Do like the look of Carlos' back three.
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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Poorfour on Mon 02 Jan 2017, 10:41 pm

Robshaw's injury reported by the Guardian as a shoulder injury and England have apparently sent him for a scan.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 10:37 am

11.May 14.Nowell 15.Watson

This has been the dream for a long time - Just feel that guys like Yarde and Rokko are very much just filling in till these guys are all fit and ready,

Would love a 6N 23 to look like this (considering injuries and naughtiness) -
Marler, George, Cole, Launchbury, Lawes, Robshaw (?), Itoje, Hughes, Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Joseph, Nowell, Brown

Mullan, Taylor, Sinkler, Kruis, Williams, Care, Daly, Watson

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 10:56 am

Robshaw would be a big loss! Mr dependable who is never injured!

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by king_carlos on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 11:10 am

Haskell is due back soon isn't he?

Given his form prior to injury he's still very much the man in charge of the shirt, especially when things chopped and changed during the AIs. It would also take a bit of pressure of if Robshaw is injured given that Itoje has experience at 6, plus Wood filled in suitably during the AIs.

If Watson is fit I think he'll start. He's still our best back three player by a distance for my money.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 11:22 am

lostinwales wrote:Back three we are a bit spoilt for choice. Watson is arguably the most talented of the lot yet right now he has the most to prove. By all accounts Nowell played very well this weekend

Id have a hard time leaving out a guy like Watson with his scoring record. I don't think he has much to prove aside from being match fit and sharp. Others guys have come in a delivered, but he was Englands first choice wing till injury.  To be fair though you could have any combination of Brown, Daley, Watson, Nowell and May and be happy with it. There may be a lack of experienced cover for full back but any of those guys could step into the position.
All "deserve" to play, one is near certain to miss out on the match day squad altogether. Theres no arguing England have depth in their wing options.




The Slade injury thing makes more sense of his exclusion.

Robshaw is potentially a loss, but England seem to be able to ride these drop outs from the pack.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 11:23 am

Is Underhill still 'unselectable'. Has he even been playing in the Ospreys side over the Christmas period?
I forgot that Haskell should be back - although not played much for a long time. I think I read that he is due back in next weeks fixture.
Tom Wood is just a stop gap selection - IMO

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Poorfour on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 11:33 am

propdavid_london wrote:Is Underhill still 'unselectable'.  Has he even been playing in the Ospreys side over the Christmas period?
I forgot that Haskell should be back - although not played much for a long time.  I think I read that he is due back in next weeks fixture.  
Tom Wood is just a stop gap selection - IMO

Underhill can only be selected if England are down to bare bones in terms of flankers - which they were close to in the AIs but he was injured himself. Not sure if he's back.

Haskell has time to get to match fitness, Wood has got to the level that Eddie wants and did well. If Robshaw is injured, I do think England will miss his workrate, but I guess we will find out if anyone can step up. Someone on here suggested that Itoje could if freed of the second row's setpiece responsibilities. Wood might be able to. Not sure about Williams. Clifford has the athleticism but has a higher error count.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 1:51 pm

And from what I heard - Clifford might be injured again in the last game too.
Who is the England Back up No.8 after Hughes (if Billy is out).
Beaumont? Clifford if he is fit? We don't really want Haskell or Wood covering.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Presuming Ed on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 2:54 pm

Have Ben Morgan and Matt Kvesic done something to hack Eddie off? 2 good players in areas where England lack strength in depth and they never get a look in. Is he gloucesterphobic? (I'm no glaws fan btw).


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Re: England training squad this week

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 2:59 pm

Presumably there has to be something - that or the other coaches have something they aren't happy about.
EJ didn't really have anything to say about them - not like the comments made about Tom Wood (and he is back in the fold).

Neither are particularly pulling up trees though! Mind you, there aren't that many standouts at the moment!

You'd perhaps expect them to tour Argentina - depending on if its considered a serious tour or a development tour!

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Presuming Ed on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 3:01 pm

They've both played well in an England shirt and for me offer better options than the reserves selected.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by lostinwales on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 9:44 pm

I think Morgan was mentioned in an extended squad recently and wouldn't be far away from selection. Kvesic no chance at the moment. I could be wrong but I don't think he's a regular starter for Gloucs at the moment

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by lostinwales on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 10:18 pm

Article on the beeb about an interview with Jones.

Two headlines really, the first is that if Hartley is fit hes captain. The 2nd is that EJ is open to having Cockerill involved with England.

Not much more out of a relatively long piece

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38503190

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 03 Jan 2017, 11:05 pm

Did I hear that Kruis might have a cheek fracture? If so, he'll likely miss the start of the 6N, so I don't think Itoje at 6 will happen for a bit unless Launch is back

If Robshaw is out, I think Clifford will be called up. Obviously  I hope he is not injured, but we know he can slot back in if needed (and if anyone doubts it now, I'm not sure what could be added to change your mind!) and so in many ways it might be a blessing in disguise to trial someone like Ewers or Clifford or Williams there
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Re: England training squad this week

Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 7:13 am

Launch is out of French game with calf injury, hope is that Kruis will be ready & Hask is back this week I believe.
Back row could have a different look about it though

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by yappysnap on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 8:09 am

Frak it seems like everyone is picking up injuries!

Could be a very different 23 to last seasons.

The big difference with EJ is that he gets the systems in place to get the best from whichever players run out.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by propdavid_london on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 8:28 am

Well the tour squad looked different to the 6N squad and similarly the AI squad was all change - generally covering injuries.
So, its all change again - and hopefully there is some continuity for those that remain.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 8:47 am

lostinwales wrote: The 2nd is that EJ is open to having Cockerill involved with England.


Christ it would be great to listen into those two out drinking together!

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by BamBam on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 11:09 am

Assuming Kruis, Launchbury, Robshaw are all out, potential back 5 could be

4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Haskell
8. Hughes

Bit concerned about the scrum power of Itoje/Lawes against the kind of monsters the French put out in the second row, but looks very good in the lineout and round the park

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by funnyExiledScot on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 12:32 pm

BamBam wrote:Assuming Kruis, Launchbury, Robshaw are all out, potential back 5 could be

4. Itoje
5. Lawes
6. Wood
7. Haskell
8. Hughes

Bit concerned about the scrum power of Itoje/Lawes against the kind of monsters the French put out in the second row, but looks very good in the lineout and round the park

I think you'd be ok with that group. Itoje isn't tall but he's a pretty powerful lad. As you say, around the pack that's a top notch combination. It's a shame Dave Attwood isn't involved, as you could have used him with Lawes, and moved Itoje to 6 to replace Wood.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 12:51 pm

It's the wholesale changes which could cause issues not the quality of players.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 12:57 pm

So we're crying out for back rowers due to injuries...and you have a top class 6 who can cover the whole back row (AND second row to a very high premiership standard)....currently Captaining his side...playing consistently top class....and not even a mention of him!!! steam

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by propdavid_london on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 1:05 pm

Who?

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by propdavid_london on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 1:05 pm

Very Happy

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 1:15 pm

Not sure olly Robinson is international class.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 04 Jan 2017, 1:28 pm

boxing furious steam

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 1:30 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:Launch is out of French game with calf injury, hope is that Kruis will be ready & Hask is back this week I believe.
Back row could have a different look about it though

The Launch injury news came out of the England camp but Dai Young has quashed these rumours and good news, Launch will be back probably in 2 weeks so hopes to be fit for Toulouse game. Hask is hoping to play some part in the game against Tigers Sunday.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by king_carlos on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 1:45 pm

That would be great news on both Launchbury and Haskell, Trev.

There is still a round of European matches to reek havoc on fitness as usual though.

1.Marler 2.Hartley 3.Cole 4.Itoje 5.Lawes 6.Robshaw 7.Haskell 8.Hughes
9.Youngs 10.Ford 11.May 12.Farrell 13.Joseph 14.Watson 15.Brown

16.George 17.Mullan 18.Sinckler 19.Launchbury 20.Clifford 21.Care 22.Daly 23.Nowell

At the moment there is still the potential for that to be available for 6N round one. Depending on the outcome of Robshaws scan that is though.

A few will almost certainly be on the sidelines for at least start of the 6N though.

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Re: England training squad this week

Post by majesticimperialman on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 2:08 pm

Any news on Billy V.

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