Wales 23 to play against Italy?

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Post by international198 on Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:49 pm

First topic message reminder :

1. Rob Evans
2. Ken Owens
3. Samson Lee
4. Luke Charteris
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Ross Moriarty
7. Sam Warburton
8. Taulupe Faletau
9. Rhys Webb
10. Sam Davies
11. George North
12. Scott Williams
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Keelan Giles
15. Liam Williams

16. Ryan Elias
17. Nicky Smith
18. Tomas Francis
19. Jake Ball
20. Justin Tipuric
21. Gareth Davies
22. Dan Biggar
23. Leigh Halfpenny

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Post by Guest on Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Pushing younger players would be ludicrous according to LD..

Yes it is. It's the same now, Keelan Giles is on a hiding to nothing. He is still a kid. This is the one thing Gatland does right. He integrates these kids with potential into the squad, so they see what it's all about first, then see how they are and perhaps puts them on the bench.

Keelan Giles for me is not even at that stage, Steff Evans and Ashton Hewitt are though,  I would not begrudge them a call up to the Welsh squad, and perhaps a bench spot if they show up in training, but I would not throw them straight in.

I disagree. Gatland has history for the opposite. He capped Kristian Philips and Tom Prydie before they'd even played pro rugby (for their regions). I don't see that Giles is in any different position to Hewitt or Steff Evans. In a similar boat for me: young, just broken into the squad in the last season or two, bags of potential but relatively inexperienced.

I'm not saying to start them all at the same time. That would be a car crash. But rather than playing out of form players like Cuthbert, for example, how is it any riskier to play an in-form wing like one of the 3 mentioned above? Teams were deliberately targeting Cuthbert's wing in the autumn as they knew he'd mess up! And he did. Those other players at least were in the club form (that Cuthbert was not) to perhaps score some tries and cause the opposition problems in attack.

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Post by LordDowlais on Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:27 pm

Who has said anything about playing Cuthbert ?

I am saying to play Leigh Halfpenny at fullback, and Liam Williams on the wing.

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Post by Guest on Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:34 pm

Me. I'm saying it as it happened in the Japan game when we chose a woefully out of form Cuthbert when we could have tried someone else who was in form.

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Post by munkian on Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:50 pm

Griff wrote:Me. I'm saying it as it happened in the Japan game when we chose a woefully out of form Cuthbert when we could have tried someone else who was in form.

Or a waterboy. old chip packet, valleys slapper in a cowboy hat, anything would have been better.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:57 pm

munkian wrote:Giving a young winger his first cap against Italy is hardly 'madness' - who was North's first game against ?

LordDowlais wrote:It's a bit different, North was banging tries in left right and center for Scarlets, he was ripping the league apart.

munkian wrote:North had played bugger all league games before his Welsh cap.

-----------------------------


LordDowlais wrote: For the record I recon Steff Evans is ahead of the que after that option. He has done far more in the Pro12 than Keelan Giles and Ashton Hewitt.

munkian wrote:Like what ?

LordDowlais wrote:Oh for christ sake. OK, let's ignore the fact that he has made more tries, scored more tries, made more yardage, and just say that he can cover fullback as well.

Let's see you make a claim for Hewitt or Giles.

Griff wrote:Hewitt has 5 tries this season in 12 games.
Steff Evans has 5 tries this season in 17 games.

LordDowlais wrote: I did not realise that

-----------------------------------


munkian wrote:Im pretty sure Dixon is injured isn't he ?

LordDowlais wrote:I am sure he played in the Xmas derbies ?

munkian wrote:Nope, combos of Beard, Morgan, Warren.

--------------------------------------


Sorry, but those made me laugh Laugh

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Post by Noble-Surfer on Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:06 pm

"Who has said anything about playing Cuthbert ?

I am saying to play Leigh Halfpenny at fullback, and Liam Williams on the wing."

Personally, I don't understand this logic. I'd have no problems at all with both Williams and Halfpenny playing, but if they do, Liam has to be the one at 15- he's been absolutely superb at fullback for a few seasons. He offers so much more than Halfpenny does from full back... (I agree Halfpenny seems to have had the attacking threat he possessed when first called up coached out of him).

Williams should be nailed on 15... just because Halfpenny was successfully converted from wing to fullback doesn't mean he should stay there if there's a better option. What's ridiculous is playing Halfpenny at 15, when he was originally a wing, and then playing one of your best attacking threats, who is a natural 15, and a better one than Halfpenny, on the wing...

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:38 pm

It isn't what Gatland does right at all. We are talking about wingers here, not young tightheads. If they don't get the chance to cut their teeth in a game like this, we will end up with more situations like Tyler Morgan v South Africa. Giles should be capped by now, yet Cement's puppet persisted with Cuthbert v Japan. North hasn't been playing well consistently for Wales either. So give people a chance. Yes they may make mistakes whilst they find their feet, but they will also give us something completely different to fit in with this "attacking game" we want to play.

We are two years from a RWC. We need to give players on form the chance to prove themselves and Team Wales badly need some depth in their squad.

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:39 pm

Also, Hallam Amos is targeting a mid Feb return. Personally, from a NGD point of view I'd happily have Hewitt and then Amos away from all the WODs.

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Post by chris_501 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:52 pm

1. Nicky Smith
2. Ken Owens
3. Samson Lee
4. Jake Ball
5. Alun Wyn Jones (c)
6. Ross Moriarty
7. Justin Tipuric
8. Taulupe Faletau

9. Gareth Davies
10. Dan Biggar
11. Leigh Halfpenny
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Scott Williams
14. George North
15. Liam Williams

16. Sam Parry
17. Rob Evans
18. Tomas Francis
19. Luke Charteris
20. Thomas Young (Sam Warburton)
21. Jonathon Evans
22. Sam Davies
23. Keelan Giles


This would be my squad as of now. I am unsure if Young is eligible or if he would be a 4th 'outside' pick.

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Post by Guest on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:05 pm

I've read that Young is tied to Wales by an U20 appearance and, because he will already be in England if/when first called up (as opposed to moving there once already a welsh international), he is exempt from the law. I'm guessing that applies to someone like Moriaty too? And Francis? It's when they move by choice or take up a contract once already established as an international and since the law came in that it's an issue: so players like Faletau, Prisetland, Roberts, Halfpenny, Liam Williams soon to be, etc.

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Post by chris_501 on Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:26 pm

I can't imagine Dai would let him play for anyone else!!

I think Warburton could do with playing for Blues without the pressure of Wales. I still think he's a very good player, but as with JD2, hasn't hit the heights yet this season.

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Post by Gwlad on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:31 am

Please god, don't let Cuthbert back in the squad, anyone but that idiot.

The front row seems to be naturally managing itself, we've decent strength in depth with 3 players in each position to manage the inevitable injuries. With the likes of Gethin to come back in when fit and hibbard not even getting selected anymore i've no worries about our resilience there.

At 2nd row again with Hill and Thornton coming into an established cadre of AWJ, Davies, Ball and Charteris we have excellent redundancy.

Back row likewise, Sam, Tips, Moriarty, Young, Faletau, Lydiate Jenkins and Cracknell - the future looks bright. At least 2 class players in each spot and in Faletau you have the best 8 in the NH. Its great to have such a glut of talent and i just hope that with Lydiate out Sam gets given a chance to fill in so that the best player in Welsh rugby can finally get his shot at 7.

At 9 we have 2 outstanding candidates with Williams a back up. Just need Webb to stop breaking.

Sam will be our 10 for the next 6-8 years if he develops right and with Biggar as back up and others knocking we look solid if not exactly burgeoning with talent.

Centre worries me. Only Beck shows any real fire right now. We know Doc is effectively gone both on form and game plan, JD2 promises much but is way off the pace. Its been the same cadre for years and luckily it was very effective but now it is wobbling. Who is coming through? I'd like to see Williams come into contention for his flexibility to play 10 and centre.

Back 3. 2 World class players, potentially 3 but one is definitely off the pace. Brew and James were given their chances but never took them, Amos can do a job but isn't going to set the world alight. Cuthbert needs shooting.  FFS Howley, take a chance in getting Giles experience against italy and Scotland. And play Sanjay at 15.

Wales must look to the future. I imagine selection will be conservative but we have to face facts, the likes of Warburton, Roberts, North, JD2 just aren't performing. I'd like to see Hewitt and Giles blooded, Young and Cracknell too.

AWJ to skipper

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Post by munkian on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:30 am

You don't mean Brymor Jnr do you ? Should be no where near a Welsh shirt Shocked
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Post by Guest on Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:05 am

Sam Underhill, who I mentioned as a potential Wales squad call up and perhaps one for the future, is joining Bath (he's English). So we can scratch him off the list! Quality player.

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Post by munkian on Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:12 am

Griff wrote:Sam Underhill, who I mentioned as a potential Wales squad call up and perhaps one for the future, is joining Bath (he's English). So we can scratch him off the list! Quality player.

Eddie will turn him into another generic back rower then Very Happy
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Post by chris_501 on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:46 pm

He was great when he stepped into that huge void caused by injuries last season. His injury has not helped him this season, but time will tell how good a player he will be.

If he goes to Bath, he's had the ability to learn from some very good opensides in his short career so far.

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Post by True Raven on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:54 pm

Gutted hes gone but if the Dragons want to send Ollie Griffiths to our neck of the woods, we'll be happy to take him off your hands Very Happy

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Post by propdavid_london on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:56 pm

Whats happened to Matthew Morgan since he left Brizzle? Is he getting much gametime?

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Post by True Raven on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:59 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Whats happened to Matthew Morgan since he left Brizzle?  Is he getting much gametime?

Yes hes playing full back for the Blues but the guy cant defend so his international prospects are slim and in fact I think I would rather have Dan Fish starting at full back instead of him

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Post by propdavid_london on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:07 pm

Alt Flakey Lions Back-3
11. Wade
14. Visser
15. Morgan

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Post by munkian on Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:51 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Alt Flakey Lions Back-3
11. Wade
14. Visser
15. Morgan

I'd have Wade over Cuthbert atm...
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:59 pm

True Raven wrote:Gutted hes gone but if the Dragons want to send Ollie Griffiths to our neck of the woods, we'll be happy to take him off your hands Very Happy

Hands off! boxing

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Post by Seagultaf on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:38 pm

Griff wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Pushing younger players would be ludicrous according to LD..

Yes it is. It's the same now, Keelan Giles is on a hiding to nothing. He is still a kid. This is the one thing Gatland does right. He integrates these kids with potential into the squad, so they see what it's all about first, then see how they are and perhaps puts them on the bench.

Keelan Giles for me is not even at that stage, Steff Evans and Ashton Hewitt are though,  I would not begrudge them a call up to the Welsh squad, and perhaps a bench spot if they show up in training, but I would not throw them straight in.

I disagree. Gatland has history for the opposite. He capped Kristian Philips and Tom Prydie before they'd even played pro rugby (for their regions). I don't see that Giles is in any different position to Hewitt or Steff Evans. In a similar boat for me: young, just broken into the squad in the last season or two, bags of potential but relatively inexperienced.

I'm not saying to start them all at the same time. That would be a car crash. But rather than playing out of form players like Cuthbert, for example, how is it any riskier to play an in-form wing like one of the 3 mentioned above? Teams were deliberately targeting Cuthbert's wing in the autumn as they knew he'd mess up! And he did. Those other players at least were in the club form (that Cuthbert was not) to perhaps score some tries and cause the opposition problems in attack.

To the best of my knowledge Kristian Phillips has never been capped, I agree that Prydie was capped too soon but he was playing for the Ospreys. Giles is an exciting prospect, and Steff Evans has really played well this season, but if fit I would have both behind Amos.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:07 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
Griff wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Pushing younger players would be ludicrous according to LD..

Yes it is. It's the same now, Keelan Giles is on a hiding to nothing. He is still a kid. This is the one thing Gatland does right. He integrates these kids with potential into the squad, so they see what it's all about first, then see how they are and perhaps puts them on the bench.

Keelan Giles for me is not even at that stage, Steff Evans and Ashton Hewitt are though,  I would not begrudge them a call up to the Welsh squad, and perhaps a bench spot if they show up in training, but I would not throw them straight in.

I disagree. Gatland has history for the opposite. He capped Kristian Philips and Tom Prydie before they'd even played pro rugby (for their regions). I don't see that Giles is in any different position to Hewitt or Steff Evans. In a similar boat for me: young, just broken into the squad in the last season or two, bags of potential but relatively inexperienced.

I'm not saying to start them all at the same time. That would be a car crash. But rather than playing out of form players like Cuthbert, for example, how is it any riskier to play an in-form wing like one of the 3 mentioned above? Teams were deliberately targeting Cuthbert's wing in the autumn as they knew he'd mess up! And he did. Those other players at least were in the club form (that Cuthbert was not) to perhaps score some tries and cause the opposition problems in attack.

To the best of my knowledge Kristian Phillips has never been capped, I agree that Prydie was capped too soon but he was playing for the Ospreys. Giles is an exciting prospect, and Steff Evans has really played well this season, but if fit I would have both behind Amos.

Apologies: Phillips was called up to the 6 nations squad but never made it onto the pitch. Prydie made his debut for Wales after playing only 7 minutes for the Ospreys, and was only 17 when called up at the start of the tournament. I was convinced the trivia surrounded them was that they'd never played pro rugby before. Or perhaps Prydie had never started a game at pro level. But whatever, I stand by my point that Gats still has history for blooding players quite young and inexperienced.

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Post by Exiledinborders on Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:40 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Alt Flakey Lions Back-3
11. Wade
14. Visser
15. Morgan
Wade is getting better all the time in defence. In attack he is amazing.

He won't play though.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:50 pm

I'd have Wade in my team any day of the week. But I doubt he'll tour.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:56 pm

I have a feeling we'll lose this match. I think personnel is only part of it. We played some horrible rugby in the autumn.

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Post by RiscaGame on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:27 pm

I have a feeling we might lose every one

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:36 pm

Scotland are definitely due a win against us.

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Post by Seagultaf on Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:03 am

Griff wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
Griff wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Pushing younger players would be ludicrous according to LD..

Yes it is. It's the same now, Keelan Giles is on a hiding to nothing. He is still a kid. This is the one thing Gatland does right. He integrates these kids with potential into the squad, so they see what it's all about first, then see how they are and perhaps puts them on the bench.

Keelan Giles for me is not even at that stage, Steff Evans and Ashton Hewitt are though,  I would not begrudge them a call up to the Welsh squad, and perhaps a bench spot if they show up in training, but I would not throw them straight in.

I disagree. Gatland has history for the opposite. He capped Kristian Philips and Tom Prydie before they'd even played pro rugby (for their regions). I don't see that Giles is in any different position to Hewitt or Steff Evans. In a similar boat for me: young, just broken into the squad in the last season or two, bags of potential but relatively inexperienced.

I'm not saying to start them all at the same time. That would be a car crash. But rather than playing out of form players like Cuthbert, for example, how is it any riskier to play an in-form wing like one of the 3 mentioned above? Teams were deliberately targeting Cuthbert's wing in the autumn as they knew he'd mess up! And he did. Those other players at least were in the club form (that Cuthbert was not) to perhaps score some tries and cause the opposition problems in attack.

To the best of my knowledge Kristian Phillips has never been capped, I agree that Prydie was capped too soon but he was playing for the Ospreys. Giles is an exciting prospect, and Steff Evans has really played well this season, but if fit I would have both behind Amos.

Apologies: Phillips was called up to the 6 nations squad but never made it onto the pitch. Prydie made his debut for Wales after playing only 7 minutes for the Ospreys, and was only 17 when called up at the start of the tournament. I was convinced the trivia surrounded them was that they'd never played pro rugby before. Or perhaps Prydie had never started a game at pro level. But whatever, I stand by my point that Gats still has history for blooding players quite young and inexperienced.

Hardly a successful ploy though because where are Phillips and Prydie now? Prydie gets the occasional run out for Newport but not sure where Phillips is now playing?

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Post by Seagultaf on Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:04 am

propdavid_london wrote:Alt Flakey Lions Back-3
11. Wade
14. Visser
15. Morgan

Morgan for the Lions! He is only getting a game for Cardiff because of injuries to Fish, Anscombe and James.

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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 15, 2017 4:22 pm

Seagultaf wrote:
Griff wrote:
Seagultaf wrote:
Griff wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
munkian wrote:Pushing younger players would be ludicrous according to LD..

Yes it is. It's the same now, Keelan Giles is on a hiding to nothing. He is still a kid. This is the one thing Gatland does right. He integrates these kids with potential into the squad, so they see what it's all about first, then see how they are and perhaps puts them on the bench.

Keelan Giles for me is not even at that stage, Steff Evans and Ashton Hewitt are though,  I would not begrudge them a call up to the Welsh squad, and perhaps a bench spot if they show up in training, but I would not throw them straight in.

I disagree. Gatland has history for the opposite. He capped Kristian Philips and Tom Prydie before they'd even played pro rugby (for their regions). I don't see that Giles is in any different position to Hewitt or Steff Evans. In a similar boat for me: young, just broken into the squad in the last season or two, bags of potential but relatively inexperienced.

I'm not saying to start them all at the same time. That would be a car crash. But rather than playing out of form players like Cuthbert, for example, how is it any riskier to play an in-form wing like one of the 3 mentioned above? Teams were deliberately targeting Cuthbert's wing in the autumn as they knew he'd mess up! And he did. Those other players at least were in the club form (that Cuthbert was not) to perhaps score some tries and cause the opposition problems in attack.

To the best of my knowledge Kristian Phillips has never been capped, I agree that Prydie was capped too soon but he was playing for the Ospreys. Giles is an exciting prospect, and Steff Evans has really played well this season, but if fit I would have both behind Amos.

Apologies: Phillips was called up to the 6 nations squad but never made it onto the pitch. Prydie made his debut for Wales after playing only 7 minutes for the Ospreys, and was only 17 when called up at the start of the tournament. I was convinced the trivia surrounded them was that they'd never played pro rugby before. Or perhaps Prydie had never started a game at pro level. But whatever, I stand by my point that Gats still has history for blooding players quite young and inexperienced.

Hardly a successful ploy though because where are Phillips and Prydie now? Prydie gets the occasional run out for Newport but not sure where Phillips is now playing?

We weren't discussing successful ploys though! LD said Gatland doesn't cap young players. He gets them in the squad for a while and eases them in. I say that's not true as Prydie, Phillips (who I was wrong about), North, etc. goes to show.

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Post by Seagultaf on Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:54 pm

I agree Gatland takes a pragmatic and cautious approach to integrating young players into the side. There have been exceptions, Prydie for instance was certainly capped too soon, and unfortunately his career has gone nowhere since. North is the exception but he was a freak when he was at the Scarlets, pit he took the big bucks to play in England because his game has really gone downhill.


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Post by True Raven on Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:16 pm

I'm with Griff, halfpenny and Nicky smith were capped in the autumn internationals having made their debuts in September. Biggar was capped young, Roberts was only 20(?) in 08 when he played on the wing. JD2 was prettt young when making his debut and there's probably plenty more there. These with the exception of N Smith have been successful at international level but like Griff said were played straight away and not eased in

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Post by Guest on Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:40 pm

I get the need to protect inexperienced players. And I appreciate that a bad international experience can be counter productive. Which is why I dislike the 'lesser' AI game against someone like Fiji or Canada as we pick a load of fringe players in a scratch team, they struggle to gel and get slated in the media, lose confidence, etc. My point all along here was that in the AIs this year when we were struggling on the wing with the established player(s) then playing a form league player (even though inexperienced) would have been better and a safer environment for them to be blooded as they would be surrounded by experienced players. The Japan game was a rare occasion where we played a first choice team (bar a few) rather than a scratch team in that 3rd AI game, so trying someone new would have been ideal. But now we go into the 6N knowing nothing about the international credentials of any new wingers with silverware on the table and one winger with lots of head injury problems, another injured (Amos) and another (Cuthbert) completely out of form and confidence. I know the AIs shouldn't be looked at as friendlies but for me there's less on the line and less importance than the 6 nations which is a proper tournament with something to win. I know that is not a universal view though as some feel facing the top teams is the ultimate test but for me I've never seen them as much more than glorified friendlies (sorry!).

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Post by Gwlad on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:38 am

We have real issues in the centres, JD2 anonymous v Sarries. We have limited options and if Giles is now out of the mix we are starting to look thin on the ground in the back 5 again. The old guard is either off form or fast becoming irrelevant. Beck needs to take this opportunity but i expect we'll see Roberts & Williams. Amos can't get back quick enough and if Giles is out does this mean yet another opportunity for Cuthbert to unimpress?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:10 am

Griff wrote:I get the need to protect inexperienced players. And I appreciate that a bad international experience can be counter productive. Which is why I dislike the 'lesser' AI game against someone like Fiji or Canada as we pick a load of fringe players in a scratch team, they struggle to gel and get slated in the media, lose confidence, etc. My point all along here was that in the AIs this year when we were struggling on the wing with the established player(s) then playing a form league player (even though inexperienced) would have been better and a safer environment for them to be blooded as they would be surrounded by experienced players. The Japan game was a rare occasion where we played a first choice team (bar a few) rather than a scratch team in that 3rd AI game, so trying someone new would have been ideal. But now we go into the 6N knowing nothing about the international credentials of any new wingers with silverware on the table and one winger with lots of head injury problems, another injured (Amos) and another (Cuthbert) completely out of form and confidence. I know the AIs shouldn't be looked at as friendlies but for me there's less on the line and less importance than the 6 nations which is a proper tournament with something to win. I know that is not a universal view though as some feel facing the top teams is the ultimate test but for me I've never seen them as much more than glorified friendlies (sorry!).

Don't apologise. They are glorified friendlies. OK

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:24 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Griff wrote:I get the need to protect inexperienced players. And I appreciate that a bad international experience can be counter productive. Which is why I dislike the 'lesser' AI game against someone like Fiji or Canada as we pick a load of fringe players in a scratch team, they struggle to gel and get slated in the media, lose confidence, etc. My point all along here was that in the AIs this year when we were struggling on the wing with the established player(s) then playing a form league player (even though inexperienced) would have been better and a safer environment for them to be blooded as they would be surrounded by experienced players. The Japan game was a rare occasion where we played a first choice team (bar a few) rather than a scratch team in that 3rd AI game, so trying someone new would have been ideal. But now we go into the 6N knowing nothing about the international credentials of any new wingers with silverware on the table and one winger with lots of head injury problems, another injured (Amos) and another (Cuthbert) completely out of form and confidence. I know the AIs shouldn't be looked at as friendlies but for me there's less on the line and less importance than the 6 nations which is a proper tournament with something to win. I know that is not a universal view though as some feel facing the top teams is the ultimate test but for me I've never seen them as much more than glorified friendlies (sorry!).

Don't apologise. They are glorified friendlies. OK

The bit in bold, if this is the case, then why do people like Matthew Morgan always get picked instead of Dan Evans. Liam Williams aside, Dan Evans must be the most consistent fullback in Wales, yet he never gets a chance.

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Post by True Raven on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:36 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
Griff wrote:I get the need to protect inexperienced players. And I appreciate that a bad international experience can be counter productive. Which is why I dislike the 'lesser' AI game against someone like Fiji or Canada as we pick a load of fringe players in a scratch team, they struggle to gel and get slated in the media, lose confidence, etc. My point all along here was that in the AIs this year when we were struggling on the wing with the established player(s) then playing a form league player (even though inexperienced) would have been better and a safer environment for them to be blooded as they would be surrounded by experienced players. The Japan game was a rare occasion where we played a first choice team (bar a few) rather than a scratch team in that 3rd AI game, so trying someone new would have been ideal. But now we go into the 6N knowing nothing about the international credentials of any new wingers with silverware on the table and one winger with lots of head injury problems, another injured (Amos) and another (Cuthbert) completely out of form and confidence. I know the AIs shouldn't be looked at as friendlies but for me there's less on the line and less importance than the 6 nations which is a proper tournament with something to win. I know that is not a universal view though as some feel facing the top teams is the ultimate test but for me I've never seen them as much more than glorified friendlies (sorry!).

Don't apologise. They are glorified friendlies. OK

The bit in bold, if this is the case, then why do people like Matthew Morgan always get picked instead of Dan Evans. Liam Williams aside, Dan Evans must be the most consistent fullback in Wales, yet he never gets a chance.

MM hasn't been picked since being in the world cup squad when he had won the championship player of the year(?!?)

I'm not MM biggest fan but can acknowledge that agsint certain teams could be an asset as he proved against Fiji when he made the most metres and seemed to be Wales most creative player that day.

Unfortunately for D Evans he has to beat out Williams and Halfpenny first

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:51 am

True Raven wrote:Unfortunately for D Evans he has to beat out Williams and Halfpenny first

Yes, that is very unfortunate for him, but if we are talking permutations, then if people want to drop Halfpenny to play Liam Williams at fullback, or then put Halfpenny on the wing, then Dan Evans should be obvious bench cover at least, but we all know that would never happen.

Dan Evans has been more consistent than any other player in Wales, in the backs, for the best part of two seasons, yet he is never given the chance. So when we have people championing less experienced players to get their chance, why aren't people ever mentioning Dan Evans as well ?

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Post by True Raven on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:03 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:Unfortunately for D Evans he has to beat out Williams and Halfpenny first

Yes, that is very unfortunate for him, but if we are talking permutations, then if people want to drop Halfpenny to play Liam Williams at fullback, or then put Halfpenny on the wing, then Dan Evans should be obvious bench cover at least, but we all know that would never happen.

Dan Evans has been more consistent than any other player in Wales, in the backs, for the best part of two seasons, yet he is never given the chance. So when we have people championing less experienced players to get their chance, why aren't people ever mentioning Dan Evans as well ?

It's a fair point and if I was Dan Evans id be annoyed too.

I'm guessing its because Gatland believes certain younger players have a higher ceiling than D Evans and exposure to the national set up will help them develop.

I personally think that D Evans has outperformed Amos at regional level but I think Amos has the potential to be twice the player D Evans is.

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Post by LordDowlais on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:07 pm

True Raven wrote:It's a fair point and if I was Dan Evans id be annoyed too.

And that's the point I was trying to make earlier on in this thread. People sometimes just mention their flavour of the month to be given the chance for Wales. Keelan Giles is at least a year or two away from being a Wales player, give him time with Ospreys, let him get the feel for top level rugby week in week out before we throw him to the wolves.

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Post by True Raven on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:14 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:It's a fair point and if I was Dan Evans id be annoyed too.

And that's the point I was trying to make earlier on in this thread. People sometimes just mention their flavour of the month to be given the chance for Wales. Keelan Giles is at least a year or two away from being a Wales player, give him time with Ospreys, let him get the feel for top level rugby week in week out before we throw him to the wolves.

Thing is, we are low on depth in certain positions and Giles plays the same teams as Cuthbert yet has been outscoring him. It doesn't matter how old they are to me, i'd rather someone who is on fire than someone who is short on confidence and not playing well.

I dont think anyone is advocating him starting as Williams, Halfpenny and North will probs be starters but i cant fathom how Cuthbert could be selected in the squad in front of him and if Cuthbert doesn't get picked, the who gets that spot?

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:34 pm

True Raven wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
True Raven wrote:Unfortunately for D Evans he has to beat out Williams and Halfpenny first

Yes, that is very unfortunate for him, but if we are talking permutations, then if people want to drop Halfpenny to play Liam Williams at fullback, or then put Halfpenny on the wing, then Dan Evans should be obvious bench cover at least, but we all know that would never happen.

Dan Evans has been more consistent than any other player in Wales, in the backs, for the best part of two seasons, yet he is never given the chance. So when we have people championing less experienced players to get their chance, why aren't people ever mentioning Dan Evans as well ?

It's a fair point and if I was Dan Evans id be annoyed too.

I'm guessing its because Gatland believes certain younger players have a higher ceiling than D Evans and exposure to the national set up will help them develop.

I personally think that D Evans has outperformed Amos at regional level but I think Amos has the potential to be twice the player D Evans is.

Last I heard, Hallam Amos is expected to be back in the mix by the end of the tournament, so presumably they'll name him in the squad tomorrow.

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Post by True Raven on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:05 pm

Cuthbert Doh

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Post by TBJ9625 on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:15 pm

7 uncapped players, how many will actually get on the field? Why bother having Cuthberk, Warburton, Faletau or Roberts in the squad?
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Post by No9 on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:36 pm

TBJ9625 wrote:7 uncapped players, how many will actually get on the field? Why bother having Cuthberk, Warburton, Faletau or Roberts in the squad?

This is a WUM.. right..

Cuthbert, why he is there god only knows.. but the others. You have to be fishing for a response. Their experience alone says they need to be in the squad, and if fit, will play.

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Post by TBJ9625 on Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:56 pm

No not a WUM. Cuthberk we seem to agree on. Warburton needs to find fitness and form. Roberts I think doesn't add anything. I only leave Faletau out because he is injured. Bath say he will not play and gain before the competition. I think will have strength in depth in the back row, why rush him back?
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Post by munkian on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:06 pm

TBJ9625 wrote:No not a WUM. Cuthberk we seem to agree on. Warburton needs to find fitness and form. Roberts I think doesn't add anything. I only leave Faletau out because he is injured. Bath say he will not play and gain before the competition. I think will have strength in depth in the back row, why rush him back?

Because we don't have any other 8s ?
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Post by RiscaGame on Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:17 pm

I just read it's thought Faletau is in contention for Italy. Seems unlikely

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