European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

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European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by sirbenson on Thu 05 Jan 2017, 8:49 pm

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 3:47 pm

Given Els's relationship w/Dunhill and Rupert, perhaps he actually had something to do with it.
What a shame they didn't pool their resources, have Dunhill sponsor the SA Open and make it a blockbuster event. Charl, Louis & Grace all awol, and wonder if thee's something more than meets the eye going on there?

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 4:12 pm

I think Robo was talking about the Total Purse, not first prize.

I think this is first time a big name pro (non South African) has been lured to the SA Open in a long time. I think it is shame that Grace-Oosthuizen-Schwartzel did not bother to play in their National. (Just as I think it is shameful that Jason Day continues to find excuses to not go Australia for the big Aussie tournaments)

Especially since Ernie Els is hosting the tournament and each of those big three were beneficiaries of Ernie Els efforts in SAFFER junior golf.

Brandon Grace is playing Sony this week which I think is a violation of ET policy. That a player cannot play a competing tournament when their home country national championship is being played.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by super_realist on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 4:14 pm

OK, But I did stipulate I was referring to first prize but it is the equivalent of an ATP 250 tournament, so I suppose it's not that bad. Shame for Storm it wasn't more.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 4:24 pm

GPB wrote:I think Robo was talking about the Total Purse, not first prize.

I think this is first time a big name pro (non South African) has been lured to the SA Open in a long time.  I think it is shame that Grace-Oosthuizen-Schwartzel did not bother to play in their National.  (Just as I think it is shameful that Jason Day continues to find excuses to not go Australia for the big Aussie tournaments)

Especially since Ernie Els is hosting the tournament and each of those big three were beneficiaries of Ernie Els efforts in SAFFER junior golf.

Brandon Grace is playing Sony this week which I think is a violation of ET policy.  That a player cannot play a competing tournament when their home country national championship is being played.
Yes I was talking total purse....

My understanding is Rory going to S.A. Open was a quid pro quo payoff for Ernie playing in the Irish Open.  From what I read a few months ago, it seemed that Rory said he'd play S.A. Open if Els played the Irish, but Ernie didn't take that seriously.... but Rory did, and lived up to the obligation.  If it's true that's the way it went down... good for Rory.

And now... since Flagship has been taken off of the S.A. Open and given to the Alfred Dunhill... It seems the Sunshine Tour is saying the DUNHILL is our important tournament now... and that's the one you should play... and most of them did except Oosty (who played in the Hero WC instead).  In the past Oosty had played the Dunhill.  So I think Grace fulfilled his obligation by playing the Dunhill... and or maybe the NedBank fulfills the obligation as well? dunno... but Oosty did play that one.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 4:41 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Given Els's relationship w/Dunhill and Rupert, perhaps he actually had something to do with it.
What a shame they didn't pool their resources, have Dunhill sponsor the SA Open and make it a blockbuster event. Charl, Louis & Grace all awol, and wonder if thee's something more than meets the eye going on there?
That all sounds good for what they could have done for the SA Open Kwini, make perfect sense to me. But obviously something is going on... I just hate to see it at the expense of the SA Open.

Only thing I might wonder about is Ernie going along with it... Especially since he skipped the Dunhill... that seems to send a message he's not on board.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 4:49 pm

Does anyone here know exactly how the ETs "must play home country event" regulations work?  It seems clear when there is only one ET event in a players home country, but what about cases when there are multiple events in your home country?  Is it a set event they have to play... Or can they play any event in their home country to fulfill the obligation?


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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 4:55 pm

Back in 2011, when the Prez Cup was played in Australia, Ernie pitched a fit when the SA Open was scheduled for the same week.

there was evidence (not sure if Direct or Circumstantial) that Chubby Chandler was the brains behind that controversy move in his feud against the PGATour.

Probably part of the reason why Ernie left ISM.

After complaining about the scheduling, Ernie played in the 2011 SAOpen but did not play in the 2012 or 2013 SA Open.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 5:10 pm

GPB wrote:Back in 2011, when the Prez Cup was played in Australia, Ernie pitched a fit when the SA Open was scheduled for the same week.

there was evidence (not sure if Direct or Circumstantial) that Chubby Chandler was the brains behind that controversy move in his feud against the PGATour.

Probably part of the reason why Ernie left ISM.

After complaining about the scheduling, Ernie played in the 2011 SAOpen but did not play in the 2012 or 2013 SA Open.
I'm starting to get more of a suspicion that after he's done and gone and the "history" of Chubby Chandler is written, we'll find he might have had designs MUCH further than any of us ever thought.  We know he was packaging his players into events, not only enrich them but probably as much or more to further his own interests. But I'm starting to believe what he really wanted to do was take advantage of weak, ineffective ET leadership and effectively take over the Euro Tour under a more corporate driven, instead of membership driven model.  With himself at the head of it of course.

If you look back on it... had he done things a little differently (primarily not alienating Rory and Ernie)... and if you move a little piece here... and another little piece there... he might have been a helluva lot closer to pulling it off then any of us might have ever thought.  He had the players in his stable... he had O'Grady dancing on his strings... he was creating events that he owned, managed or controlled... and he had relationships with all the key sponsors he would have needed to pull it off... hmmm....

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by Davie on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 8:17 pm

Stormy has been a stalwart of my fantasy picks for many years now when I've needed a good reliable low category player - shame we didn't have a fantasy game this week!

Has anyone heard from 1GG? Hope he's OK

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by 1GrumpyGolfer on Sun 15 Jan 2017, 9:58 pm

I'm still alive, thanks Davie. Probably moving onto a galactico's schedule for the fantasy league; majors, WGCs, big events.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by raycastleunited on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 1:20 pm

1GrumpyGolfer wrote:I'm still alive, thanks Davie. Probably moving onto a galactico's schedule for the fantasy league; majors, WGCs, big events.

Good to hear you're well, 1GG. You took on a lot with the fantasy league last year, I'm sure everyone will be happy even if you operate a Stricker style schedule.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 7:01 pm

Bob Harig (ESPN) on twitter just reported that Rory has WDed from Abu Dhabi with a Rib Injury.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 7:27 pm

Yup, rehab begins immediately, no timetable published for his return.


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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 8:56 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:Yup, rehab begins immediately, no timetable published for his return.


Maybe it is from wearing shirts 1 size too small to show off his pecs.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by pedro on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 9:41 pm

Think he suffered the injury during R2 and played on painkillers in R3+R4.

A shame though, was looking forward to Abu Dhabi, the first 'real' ET tourney of the year. (Ok, I'm still looking forward to it.)

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Mon 16 Jan 2017, 11:20 pm

PD is now estimating Abu Dhabi at 50... He had it estimated at 54 before Rory's WD.

He also has Casey's late entry bringing CareerBuilder up to 42 barring other WDs

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by raycastleunited on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 1:53 pm

pedro wrote:
Abu Dhabi, the first 'real' ET tourney of the year.

No it's not! The first "real" ET tournament is the Portugal Open in May (the first for 7 years).

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by McLaren on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 2:36 pm

Ray

Wow, leaving the single market is really emboldening you #Brexiteers.
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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by pedro on Tue 17 Jan 2017, 8:04 pm

McLaren wrote:Ray

Wow, leaving the singles market is really emboldening you #Rayxiteers.
Fixed it

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 8:38 am

Interesting common sense developments in Ryder Cup selection.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 9:18 am

An almost positive post Sups. New Year resolution? Wink

But yes, interesting and I think it seems to make sense. Weighting the points to account for form and increasing the picks by 1 is a good idea IMO. And as much as it might smack of knee jerk reaction to the shoeing, I don't think it is. Actually sounds like a good blend of common sense and flexibility.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 9:21 am

Definitely a good move, puts them on an even footing with the US in terms of selection, and perhaps slightly ahead on the basis that tournaments are weighted towards the end of the qualifying period.
Also, fewer European events need to be attended.

A tricky balancing act, but looks on paper to be a good move. Hopefully people like Jon Rahm will fulfill the requisite amount of tournaments.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by I'm never wrong on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 9:41 am

JAS will be happy. David Howell now steps up as Chairman of Tournament Committee with Bjorn resigning to cope with Ryder Cup responsibilities.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by raycastleunited on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 1:41 pm

I understand that the qualification process is an incentive to play ET events, but I think 12 captain's picks would be better.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 1:50 pm

I don't see that these changes obviate the requirement to be a European Tour member. Which is where the Casey & Knox problems arose.
Probably wise moves but would they really have made any significant difference at Hazeltine? Can't see it meself.

Wonder if David Howell has RC skipper aspirations? JAS??!


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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:23 pm

Poulter playing Abu Dhabi.

IIRC, That takes away one of his starts on his PGATour Major Medical.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:35 pm

Re: Ryder Cup changes.

If it "walks like a duck" and "talks like a duck", is it a Task Force?

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by MontysMerkin on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:41 pm

No it's el pato!
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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:45 pm

Euro Tour has changed their membership rules (again) where only 4 events outside of the Majors and WGC's are required to maintain membership. I wonder if this is in effect the "Patrick Reed" rule. Also good for getting American based Euro's eligible easier for Ryder Cup.

One thing for sure... this makes it a lot easier for the American based dual-tour Euro's, not to mention full time PGAT player to take up ET membership or meet the requirements. The issue for the non-Euro player before was getting the conflicting event releases (CER's) he needed to play in 5 events. A PGAT player gets 3 releases for playing 15 events, and 1 additional for each 5 events thereafter. So an American (or other previously full time PGAT guy) can play 20 on the PGAT and then play 4 on the ET and be a member of both.

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out for the Dual Tour guys who were playing the minimum of 5 ET events in the past... will they now drop to 4? Or will the addition of these richer "Rolex Series" events entice them to play the same or even more?

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 2:50 pm

Also: If a Euro wants to be a Euro RC Ass't Captain or Captain, he can never let his European Membership lapse or fail to complete the 4 required events.

I guess there is a Loophole for players out for Medical Reasons.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 3:12 pm

GPB wrote:Poulter playing Abu Dhabi.  

IIRC, That takes away one of his starts on his PGATour Major Medical.
I believe you are correct... but I'm double checking to confirm there's not some "out" for dual tour players... It seems to me there should be and exception for events played on their "home circuit", if there's not one already.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 3:32 pm

robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:Poulter playing Abu Dhabi.  

IIRC, That takes away one of his starts on his PGATour Major Medical.
I believe you are correct... but I'm double checking to confirm there's not some "out" for dual tour players... It seems to me there should be and exception for events played on their "home circuit", if there's not one already.

14 months ago, Jarrod Lyle didn't play an Aussie event because he was eligible to play the McGladreys (RSM) and he didn't want to sacrifice one of his starts on his Medical.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 3:44 pm

GPB wrote:
robopz wrote:
GPB wrote:Poulter playing Abu Dhabi.  

IIRC, That takes away one of his starts on his PGATour Major Medical.
I believe you are correct... but I'm double checking to confirm there's not some "out" for dual tour players... It seems to me there should be and exception for events played on their "home circuit", if there's not one already.

14 months ago, Jarrod Lyle didn't play an Aussie event because he was eligible to play the McGladreys (RSM) and he didn't want to sacrifice one of his starts on his Medical.
Thanks for the reminder on that situation. Hopefully there was something about that situation that doesn't apply to Poulter or there has been a modification of rules since then. IMO a dual tour player shouldn't be penalized Major Medical starts for fulfilling obligations on his "home circuit"... but the way I'm reading the rules, I think it will count against his remaining 6...

My only hesitation of saying for sure Abu Dhabi counts against his MM starts, is sometimes the regs. are very confusing in they way they refer back and forth to other sections of the rules, and the way those other sections refer to even other sections of the rules... sometimes you almost need a full flow chart to understand what otherwise seems should be a simple situation.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 3:53 pm

Question was asked asked on the Major Medical page

Rob Bolton wrote:Normally, it would have, but his request for a release due to the conflicting event was granted. His total starts remaining as shown above will remain at six.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 3:55 pm

Abu Dhabi thinks it's the PGA:  Willett, DJ and Stenson grouped together.

GPB: Tks for the RB update on Poults . . . . . .

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 3:58 pm

GPB wrote:Question was asked asked on the Major Medical page

Rob Bolton wrote:Normally, it would have, but his request for a release due to the conflicting event was granted. His total starts remaining as shown above will remain at six.
Good news... exactly as it should be IMO.  I just got a similar response that outlines the same result... "Ian filed a Conflicting Event Release for Abu Dhabi opposite CareerBuilder.  We signed the release, therefore, he is released from his obligation and the event will not take away one of his “available” tournaments under his medical extension."

So from reading this... it sounds like players can get around the rule simply by filing conflicting event releases...   Normally a dual tour ET player wouldn't need too file a CER to play an ET... but sounds like this is a situation where he does.  But I suppose this same thing could work for other "home circuit" players like Ryo Ishikawa...  I'd hope it would also apply to players like Nick Watney if he wanted to play in an ET event along the way... as he would HAVE to file a CER to do so...

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 4:11 pm

MontysMerkin wrote:No it's el pato!

El pato's career is in limbo. I believe he got a sponsor's invite to play Career Builder.

He is one of my favorite players to watch play golf. He is the love child of John Daly and Seve.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by raycastleunited on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 4:41 pm

I thought Pato was a Brazilian footballer.

Cabrera's career has quacked.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 4:56 pm

I jut googled Cabrera and was astonished to see he is only 47. Surely this is an error? Wasn't he being referred to as a granddad about 10 years ago when he won the US Open? So he was a granddad at 37!!!! Didn't realise he was from Glasgow.

He must be at least 55, unless he's had a very hard life indeed.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:00 pm

kwinigolfer wrote:I don't see that these changes obviate the requirement to be a European Tour member. Which is where the Casey & Knox problems arose...
True, doesn't entirely fix the situation, but the "only 4" requirement makes it just that much easier to fulfill membership. I would have preferred an allowance to pick 1 non-member for RC if need be, but this is a step in the right direction. Also by doing it this way, makes it easier for Reed and others who might want to dual tour the other way... For example... DJ has mentioned it before, maybe now he will?

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:07 pm

robo,
I guess my implied point is that the problems with Casey (just being a pr1ck) and Knox (too lazy to sign up - EDIT: to qualify automatically) wouldn't have been obviated by the changes, much as it makes ideal tabloidish fodder (#fakenews) for certain US media outlets, especially NBC/GC.
And much as one would love to have seen them both at Hazeltine.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by pedro on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:19 pm

GPB wrote:

I guess there is a Loophole for players out for Medical Reasons.
If Rory's injury prone glass body prevents him from qualifying outright or being eligable for a pick, you bet!

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:22 pm

Kwini...IMO the sum of the recent changes are positives towards getting players in Casey's situation to re-join, and with more choices of higher purse events available for them to play, gives them (including players like Knox) a better chance to qualify...  Now if either of those choose to take advantage of their improved opportunity is another matter... But I'd think others in their situation in the future surely will...

The downside to the Rolex Series of richer events for a Casey or Knox is the committed ET members may be playing all 8... So those 2 are at a disadvantage if they're playing only "just 4".

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 5:28 pm

pedro wrote:
GPB wrote:

I guess there is a Loophole for players out for Medical Reasons.
If Rory's injury prone glass body prevents him from qualifying outright or being eligable for a pick, you bet!

Both McIlroy and 9C (sorry Robo, but if he's given himself a pseudonym then 9C isn't any worse) are guys that are gym bufties, is there anything which can be drawn by the amount of time they spend in the gym and needless injuries like the one these guys have had?

Seems at least in McIlroys case that common sense would have avoided this. What's wrong with these guys? Do they really have  a standard Premiership Footballer intelligence level?

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 6:22 pm

super_realist wrote:Both McIlroy and 9C (sorry Robo, but if he's given himself a pseudonym then 9C isn't any worse) are guys that are gym bufties, is there anything which can be drawn by the amount of time they spend in the gym and needless injuries like the one these guys have had?

Seems at least in McIlroys case that common sense would have avoided this. What's wrong with these guys? Do they really have  a standard Premiership Footballer intelligence level?
I don't have a problem with 9C... (as "huh?" as it may be)... but on your larger point. IMO golf is being approached as a more of an athletic endeavor these days... and because of that more "athletic" types of injuries are going to be part and parcel of that going forward. I may not agree on the extent some of them take it, but that's not going to stop them.

But IMO... Rory's situation is probably not due to his lifting... it's because of hitting so many balls while testing clubs to go forward with. The way some of these guys fire their hips to get their chest and shoulders to follow so violently... and do that time after time after time... I'm surprised we don't see even more of these injuries.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 7:49 pm

It seems though that these guys aren't doing things right. Of course injuries happen, but seems that they're entirely preventable and they lack common sense. Someone should have been telling McIlroy he shouldn't be hitting so many balls.

If you look at a real athletic sport like Tennis, the top players all have prominent conditioning and fitness specialists right at the fore of their team who know how to get them in best shape and to get them in a shape which helps prevent injury.
I'm not saying the golfers don't have such a thing, it's just like they've decided the gym is the way to go and who cares how you do it or where they develop, just get muscles, which seems stupid. It appears it's done without due consideration for the type of exercise which helps them best or protects them long term.
In terms of professionalism, it seems golf has a long way to go.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by pedro on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 7:56 pm

I'm not an expert but at least this wiseguy hints that the injury isn't solely related to hitting golf balls.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/back-specialist-mcilroys-injury-rare-golfers

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by GPB on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 8:28 pm

super_realist wrote:If you look at a real athletic sport like Tennis, the top players all have prominent conditioning and fitness specialists right at the fore of their team who know how to get them in best shape and to get them in a shape which helps prevent injury.

Like Rafa Nadal?

Probably the most "ripped" world class elite tennis player in the last decade as been Nadal. And he has been fragile china doll. He has missed a grand slam event in 4 of the last 5 years. He is just 30 years old.

Parts of his body that have forced to miss grand slams

knee
feet
Hamstring
shoulder
back

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by super_realist on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 8:33 pm

I agree, I'm almost wondering if it's a Nike thing actually. Do they insist on their athletes being as ripped as possible with scant regard for their longevity?

Nike don't really make innovative products, they simply make clothes. So I'm wondering if they insist on a specific aesthetic look for their clothes horses at least for certain people. Funny how their many of their most high profile players are all stupidly and needlessly ripped.

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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

Post by robopz on Wed 18 Jan 2017, 8:38 pm

pedro wrote:I'm not an expert but at least this wiseguy hints that the injury isn't solely related to hitting golf balls.

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golf-central-blog/back-specialist-mcilroys-injury-rare-golfers
By my read... he's actually saying the opposite... nowhere in that article does it mention his workout regime... and the last line reads: “The modern golf swing is hard on the body,” he said. "To have athletes in their 20s experiencing these types of injuries is very concerning for the long-term.”

And that's exactly my point. I mean let's face it... the forces these guys are putting on their bodies with this "modern swing" are immense... and it can be more for some than others due to body type. (Like how the forces on a 5'9" Rory's back to generate a 120mph swing is probably much greater than what it takes for a 6'4" long-armed, bigger arc, Dustin Johnson to produce his 122mph swing).

In the same article you linked the Dr. also said... "...the only way to ensure that an injury of this nature does not reoccur is to stop engaging in the activity that caused the injury and to strengthen the muscles around the core and spine." So SURE... you can read that as either the swing or the training is the activity causing the problem. But seems to me the only way to strengthen the muscles around the core requires TRAINING, and there's a lot of repetition involved putting stresses on the body in that too...

I dunno Pedro... maybe it's a "chicken or egg" thing... is it the modern swing that's the problem or the athleticism and training necessary to be able to perform it? My guess is BOTH.


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Re: European Tour 2017 DP World Tour Championship

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