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BD in India

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Post by KP_fan Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:10 pm

Test squad Virat Kohli (capt), M Vijay, KL Rahul, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane, Karun Nair, Wriddhiman Saha (wk), R Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Jayant Yadav, Umesh Yadav, Ishant Sharma, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Amit Mishra, Abhinav Mukund, Hardik Pandya
India A squad for warm-up against Australians Hardik Pandya (capt), Akhil Herwadkar, Priyank Panchal, Shreyas Iyer, Ankit Bawne, Rishabh Pant, Ishan Kishan (wk), Shahbaz Nadeem, K Gowtham, Kuldeep Yadav, Navdeep Saini, Ashok Dinda, Mohammed Siraj, Rahul Singh, B Indrajith

BD Squad: Mushfiqur Rahim (capt & wk), Tamim Iqbal, Sabbir Rahman, Mahmudullah, Shakib Al Hasan, Mehedi Hasan, Taijul Islam, Kamrul Islam Rabbi, Soumya Sarkar, Taskin Ahmed, Subashis Roy, Imrul Kayes, Liton Das (wk), Mominul Haque, Shafiul Islam
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Post by KP_fan Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:11 pm

The match in Hyderabad starting 9th Feb will be Bangladesh's first ever Test in India, over sixteen years after they played their first ever Test in November 2000 which was also vs India  Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Post by KP_fan Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:19 pm

BD will have much better spinners than Eng had or Aus will have so India cannot prepare out and out spinning pitches...

Given the form and confidence of their batters they will be quite a handful and good match even on slow spinning pitches....

should India create a green, seaming , bouncy pitch ? And play Hardik Pandya as a 3rd seamer instead of Jayant ?

and they would have to sit out the triple centurion of the last game.....Karun Nair
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Post by JDizzle Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:07 am

Be interesting to see how Mehedi goes against a side who don't fall apart at the first sign of a spinner.

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Post by msp83 Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:59 am

Kohli made Vijay sit on the bench when he was coming back from injury as Rahul, his replacement made a ton standing in, and Dhawan managed a decent score for ones in the test prior to that. Will he do the same to Rahane too? Unlike Vijay's case, Rahane was coming off an atrocious series against England, where he looked more like an England batsman, playing mediocre spinners like Ansari with no clue whatsoever.

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Post by msp83 Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:59 am

Think Ajinkya should play though.......

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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:04 am

msp83 wrote:Kohli made Vijay sit on the bench when he was coming back from injury as Rahul, his replacement made a ton standing in, and Dhawan managed a decent score for ones in the test prior to that. Will he do the same to Rahane too? Unlike Vijay's case, Rahane was coming off an atrocious series against England, where he looked more like an England batsman, playing mediocre spinners like Ansari with no clue whatsoever.

--It was a mistake by Kohli to sit Vijay out in his early days as a captaion.....and in due course realized and pronounced that Vijay and Rahul as firs choice openers...

--contrary to popular expectations....selectors dropped Parthiv inspite of his brilliant batting in tests and form carried over to Ranji finals...pronouncing  Saha as India's first choice keeper

--Rahane with such a long ,proven , superior test match record in every country....will be India's first choice middle order batsman undoubtedly ....and has enough credit in the bag to play 5 more tests to regain form.

now that Parthiv could not be accommodated......Mukund is not a bad choice.....he deserves a second chance and is still only 26
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Post by msp83 Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:06 pm

Actually, thought at the time of the selectors making the regressive call on Gautam Gambhir, they should have gone for Mukund or Akhil Herwadkar. Mukund's bumper Ranji season helped further his case....... Yes, think he has earned a 2nd chance, but Rahul and Vijay remains the first choice openers and that is how it should be.
On Rahane, the only concern I have is his spin ability. Among India's top test batsmen, Kohli, Vijay, Pujara and himself, Rahane is the worst in playing spin. Against pace he seems a natural, against spin, he has to summon all aspects of his mental game to survive, and rather than dominate, he survives and fights through even when he scores runs, as he did against Sri Lanka during the last tour when he was shunted up the order and initially failed before scoring a fighting hundred. The only time I have seen him dominating and looking pretty much at ease doing so was when he played a fabulous hand against the South Africans in Delhi.
Yet, despite all that, he does indeed have a lot of credit left in the bank, just hope he playes these games with a positive frame of mind, looking to score and take the attack to the bowlers. Against Starc and Hazlewood, we would certainly need him......

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Post by wisden Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:07 pm

seems harsh to leave Nair out after scoring a triple hundred though..

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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:13 pm

wisden wrote:seems harsh to leave Nair out after scoring a triple hundred though..
True

but selectors  have sent out a very assuring message to the entire squad--> if you are performing well and have to go out on account of injury...your place will be preserved when your recover

it was very tempting to retain Parthiv for his batting skills both as opener and lower down......and it's harsh to leave him out too.
But Fair to Saha
and fair to Rahane

We'll see how they can include Rohit when he returns
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Post by wisden Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:14 pm

Saha is the better gloveman though and that is why he comes back in... I'm a huge fan of Rahane + he is the vice captain, however IMO Nair should retain his place

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Post by msp83 Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:16 pm

Disappointed with the Saha call though. Not that I am a big fan of Parthiv's glove work, but Saha's glovework is massively overhyped by the likes of Ganguly. He very regularly drops chances though generally looks good behind the stumps. Almost at a rate of 1 or 2 in an innings is seriously poor. But he does take some spectacular catches, particularly to either sides, and doesn't give away too many byes. But he drops too many catches and misses too many stumpings, and irritatingly, a lot of those are rather straightforward.
He is a fighter with the bat, but despite the good temperament, he doesn't have the class or skills to score consistent test runs against good bowling units. Doesn't have the range of shots or technique. Had a good series against the absolutely mediocre and embarrassing West Indies that can happen to anyone, and then had a worthwhile series against the New Zealanders at home. After and before that, he has been mediocre with the bat and not very safe with the gloves.
Parthiv is clearly a better bat, and though he doesn't look as assured as Saha with the gloves, and his age old issues with his keeping technique haven't quite gone away, he is not more unsafe than Saha. Just to save a few byes, should we sacrifice a lot more runs with the bat?
As I said at the time of Parthiv's recall, its time to move beyond the Saha, Karthik, Patel, Ojha generation. They don't like Uday kaul for some reason, and Sanju Samson has not earned a test chance. Think they should take a chance with Pant, if he can establish himself, he's there for a long innings, and he can develop into a Quinton de Kock type player.......

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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:21 pm

True assessment msp.....Saha is inconsistent as a gloveman, inspite of the hype ...and decidedly inferior batsman to Parthiv...the latter is in form that he can bat as a pure batsmen...his 162 chasing Ranji final against a good Mumbai bolwing attack was as high quality a Ranji inning you will see in a long time.

 and I do believe Ganguly is behind Saha's return and MSK prasad's uncharacteristic public pronouncement .....I do think ganguly controls this 3 man selection panef, but more than bias.....it's a theory of "give a fair run" behind Saha's return  

and since saha was man of match in his last test and had a very good serie vs NZ so he deserves to be back owing to the "fair run theory"...and his  rope will be short, if he fluffs behind the wicket.
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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:34 pm

Saha was mom in the NZ game, after that, before his injury, he was godawful against England with the gloves, dropping crucial catches, 2 in back-to-back overs of Ben Stokes of the bowling of Umesh Yadav standing out among other mistakes. Even then, Ganguly went public saying those drops are the exceptions and that he is the greatest ever keeper theory and all that nonsense. And he made no significant contribution with the bat either.......

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Post by KP_fan Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:39 am

the Ind-A vs BD started.....and thoughh BD is 135-5 Pandya went for 29 runs in 3 overs and Jayant hasn't gotten a wicket.....
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Post by KP_fan Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:39 pm

mishra has injured his knee and Kuldeep comes in.....and India is getting its replacements quite spot on....there is consistency of approach and a fairness.

Rahane will play as per Kumble's pre match interview...and he should
Kumble explained well that they see potential for Pandya to be an allrounder in the longer format so they keep him in the mix...for his 140kph bowling and useful middle order batting.....

The Hyderbad pitch has reportedly some bounce.....things we've gotta watch out for 

1) Is it Pandya or Jayant
2) Is it Bhuvi or Ishant ?
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Post by KP_fan Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:06 am

so India go with 3 seamers none of whom is an allrounder + ashwin and Jadeja and with Saha due at No. 6...the batting looks thin.....


they have talked about not taking BD for granted......but their selection of such thin batting does show that they had taken BD for granted.....

winning the toss and  a good 180 stand for 2nd wicket stand has significantly diminished the risk for India...the end result might justify the Indian selection...nevertheless they stuck their neck out with too much risk
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Post by KP_fan Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:29 am

and one of those 5 batters in Rahane......out of form.....but great opportunist to play himself back....out in the middle as Vijay goes after yet another 100
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Post by KP_fan Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:23 pm

India finish with 356-3...looking set to post an imposing total....inspite of the thin batting line up on paper...the top order has fired.

Rahane 45* must convert this into something really big and substantial and get in form for the Aussies.

following on CI it appears that BD were just too loose
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Post by sirfredperry Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:37 pm

So the guy who got 300 in his last Test is left out. If only other sides were as strong in batting....

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Post by KP_fan Thu Feb 09, 2017 8:15 pm

The pitch has a thin covering of green ......this is as green as you'd get in India..with some bounce and carry......and India plays 3 seamer....

and BD shows seam bowling is not  just about pace and getting movement....because their bowlers were hitting 87 mph and moving the ball in the air and off the pitch...
it's about planning, scheming, direction, control and thinking the batsman out....an Anderson would have had the Indian top order dancing........these guys were just mindlessly putting it there...

wait till Bhuvi gets the ball in his hand.....
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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:02 am

apparently Kohli on 204 didn't review his LBW on the advise of Saha the non striker....and would have been saved
misses a triple century narrowly  Very Happy

and this alone should be a reason to fire Saha Very Happy
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Post by VTR Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:37 am

This match is a great advert for T20

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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:49 am

The entire Indian batting line-up is having a run feast...saha gets a 100 and shows lighting a fire underneath gets more out of everyone...

Rahane should be ruing the missed 100 and beyond
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Post by VTR Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:41 am

KP_fan wrote:The entire Indian batting line-up is having a run feast...saha gets a 100 and shows lighting a fire underneath gets more out of everyone...

Rahane should be ruing the missed 100 and beyond

I imagine every cricketer in India right down to club level is ruing missing out on a hundred - Bangladesh have been served up on a plate for a nice exercise in boosting averages. I don't buy the myth that Bangladesh are a good side in Tests now, just because they beat England who had an absolutely abject winter. This match is a waste of time

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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:01 pm

no swing....wasted Bhuvi....a 3rd spinners is always a safer bet on Indian pitches

Yadav getting reverse in the 11th over Shocked
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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:08 pm

VTR wrote:
KP_fan wrote:The entire Indian batting line-up is having a run feast...saha gets a 100 and shows lighting a fire underneath gets more out of everyone...

Rahane should be ruing the missed 100 and beyond

I imagine every cricketer in India right down to club level is ruing missing out on a hundred - Bangladesh have been served up on a plate for a nice exercise in boosting averages. I don't buy the myth that Bangladesh are a good side in Tests now, just because they beat England who had an absolutely abject winter. This match is a waste of time


For BD to win though they need to have a the type of exploding under-prepared pitches they produced vs Eng...where the difference between average and great spinners is reduced ......largely  batting becomes a game of chance...whose luck will evade the killer delivery longer.....and   the outcome of the entire match a lottery......toss playing a role too in that lottery
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Post by VTR Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:50 pm

Yep, agree with that assessment. So we can expect them to serve up rank pitches at home then utterly flounder on anything away. That isn't going to serve them very well to be honest as all teams should have ambitions to be competitive away from home as that's the true acid test for a good side

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Post by KP_fan Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:55 pm

VTR wrote:Yep, agree with that assessment. So we can expect them to serve up rank pitches at home then utterly flounder on anything away. That isn't going to serve them very well

Well it does help....

makes you aware of the  joy of winning  desire to win again 
attract attention of fans and creates a support base

--> and then the desire to win and pressure of fan-base to win in all conditions propels you to the next level

I say this because I have seen India go up this path and then Lanka follow the same route.
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Post by KP_fan Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:13 pm

BD have batted well.....lost only 5 wickets in the day and added about 300 runs....

they are 360 runs behind and 6 more sessions to go...

so India has to take 14 wickets and has to do it maximum in 5 sessions.....leaving one session to chase down some surplus that BD would have scored if they batted so far...if a follow on was imposed

and if follow-on is not imposed than India would have to bat a session and a half.

4.5 to 5 sessions to get 14 wickets.......BD would have to collapse seriously to lose this...and they are seriously capable of collapsing from this  situation
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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:45 pm

Couldn't post earlier....... So the Indian batting had a fine time out there in the first innings. A double ton for the skipper, tons for Vijay and Saha, and 50s for Pujara, Rahane and Jadeja. Rahul didn't get going at all, and Ashwin missed out on at least a 50 when he was looking out. Bangladesh fielding was pretty poor, and their bowlers didn't help themselves much even otherwise.
However, they have batted much better. Ashwin and Jadeja had to deal with a stronger challenge than what they faced in the last series. Shakib played very well, before yet another reckless shot ended his innings. Skipper Mushfiqur showed determination and skill in facing over 200 balls and scoring an unbeaten 81. And Mehedi Hasan, well rated as an all-rounder in the making, at last showed why he's considered so by making his first significant batting contribution at the highest level. But Bangladesh would need those 2 to carry on much longer if they have to have any chance of saving this test....... And Ashwin and Jadeja are unlikely to be kept out for very long.

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Post by msp83 Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:02 pm

There is no question that Bangladesh is improving in all formats. They have become a force in limited overs at home, and they are slowily developing the capability to cause an upset in test matchs now and then, and stay in the game and compete for long regularly. They scored nearly 600 against New Zealand recently that too away from home, though they eventually managed to lose that game. As Mushfiqur Rahim said, what they need is to play more and more test matches. And all the more better if they play their tests on quality turners. The pitches for the England games were excellent, and on an average, those were better than some of the tracks for the India England series, particularly the one for the first test. There is nothing like wins that would promote their test credentials. If they become a force at home, then they can strive to stay competitive in away games, and later on thinking about winning too.
Another matter that other than South Africa, none of the current sides are all that good playing away from home, other than when they go to Zimbabwe or West Indies.

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Post by msp83 Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:41 am

A determined hundred from skipper Mushfiqur Rahim took Bangladesh to nearly 400 in their first innings, bowled out for 388. Even then, India walk away with a first innings lead of 299, and Virat decided to bat again. Mushfiqur was the last out for 127.
Umesh Yadav, who bowled one of his better spells in tests, took 3 wickets, Ravindra Jadeja, economical as ever, finished with 2 wickets, and Ravichandran Ashwin also picked up 2 wickets, in the process becoming the fastest to 250 test wickets. Ishant Sharma and Bhuvneshwar Kumar finishing with 1 each.

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Post by msp83 Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:19 pm

So India declared at 159-4 with Cheteshwar Pujara scoring an unbeaten 50, and set Bangladesh a target of 459.
The Bangladesh team has not collapsed in a heap and are fighting on, though they seem to be up against it. At stumps on day 4, they are 103 for 3 with Shakib and Mahmudullah at the crease. Soumya Sarkar played some fine shots in his 42 and Mominul was largely untroubled before he was done in by Ashwin for 27. A couple of strikes for Ashwin, Jadeja got the set Sarkar.

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Post by KP_fan Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:39 pm

--so BD go into the last day needing 350 odd for a win....Shakib + one more have to play the inning of their life...to take them to an unlikely but not an impossible win

--A draw although intuitively and on paper seems more likely than a BD win......I put the probability of that as ZERO

they'll either see the inning of life from shakib and company and win 5% chance

or lose 95%

no draw

--Kohli set the match well with timely declarations in both innings...a few  other captains might have been tempted to bat 10 overs longer in the 2nd inning....too put the game absolutely beyond even any "inning of life effort" from any BD batsmen

--the pitch is really an energy sapping one for the bowlers....for the spinners...you have to flight and get it to pitch at the perfect good length....and then it spins a bit.... but more importantly bounces much more than normal Indian pitches do...and so caught at slip/ gully and bat pad is much more a likely scenario

Bhuvi bowls well to right handers...and Ishant has still not hit peak rhythm
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Post by msp83 Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:24 pm

Ishant and rhythm hasn't been on good terms for very long. He should never be a test regular any more, Shami is India's best quick by a country mile and one has to hope his body doesn't continue to let him down. Umesh can have his moments, and Bhuvi is brilliant in swinging conditions. Unless someone like Shardul Thakur can emerge, Yadav and Kumar should be the backup to Shami with Pandya providing the all-round option. Ishant should only be considered if there is any stand-in needed. After 10 years of international cricket, he's as inconsistent as ever.

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Post by msp83 Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:33 pm

KPF, have you noticed Pujara getting a bit distracted about the T-20 stuff? He has been repeatedly making an effort to stress his improved T-20 credentials. He seems to want to get back in the mix with the IPL.
It is good if he can expand his strokeplay against seam bowling, he can and does already play an aggressive game against the spinners. However, I am not too sure he's the kind of batsman made for the batsman only basis of the limited over games where 350 and 200 have become par scores in ODIs and T-20s....... Even Ajinkya Rahane, who has a more aggressive game than Pujara has, is not quite fitting in. Think Pujara should focus very much on the test format, and should try to get a county deal during the IPL where it is not very likely that he'll be picked up, and even if he gets in, it is very unlikely that he'll get to actually play many games, and even when and if he plays, it is very very unlikely that he can keep up with the demand of the game in that format on a consistent basis. And if in the process his confidence is undermined, that can cause more damage to the test batsman.......

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Post by msp83 Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:35 pm

Said that, I should say I really wish him all the success even in the shortest format. If he can somehow click, perhaps that would bringing greater positivity to his test game that sometimes goes missing, particularly when he plays overseas.......

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Post by KP_fan Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:03 am

with Ishant......the incubation period was very long.....but he did blossom...starting from the Eng tour 2014 he did well...had that 10-for in NZ.

he needs rhythm.....which he gains by bowling a lot.....like a diesel engine car that runs at optimal  a 100kms  after a cold start
he was during the Eng series hit by Chikangunia and that is really a energy sapping form of disease.

He showed his brilliance today in that high qualiyt spell of reverse as I read it on CI...will watch highlights tonight
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Post by KP_fan Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:12 am

BD 8th wickets stand  is eating away balls 17 runs in 13.3 over partnership

India has 35 overs to get 3 wickets
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Post by KP_fan Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:14 am

and as I wrote the above.....8th wicket gone down.....2 to get in 34 overs
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Post by KP_fan Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:03 am

BD lost as expected but showed some resolve with the bat having batted 227 overs in the game....

For India...rahul needs to tighten up......he goes for his strokes too early  and falls to lose pokes and over aggressive shots....

He does score every 4th inning...he has the talent to improve his conversion rate

Ishant's spell was heartening fast and reverse...against Aus he has firmed up his position as the 2nd seamer in case Shami is still not fit......Umesh being the first.

Ind will play Jayant instead of Bhuvi I am sure
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Post by Mad for Chelsea Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:11 pm

BD showed decent resolve with the bat albeit on what looked like a very flat pitch (India wanting to make sure the game wasn't over inside three days?). Decent win for India, fine knock from Kohli in the first dig, fantastic player, and a good century from Mushfiqur for BD kept things interesting enough.

BD will be disappointed with their fielding, some really awful drops and a dreadful missed run out fairly early on day 1 (think India were about 60-1 at the time, so ended up costing them well over 100 runs). India shelled the odd one too, though took some good ones also (Rahane with one at slip, and Saha took a couple of excellent ones up to the spinners).

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Post by msp83 Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:14 pm

Yes, a good win for India in the end, but Bangladesh have shown that they are pretty much an improved side, in fact their performance even in defeate was better than some of the efforts from England. They need to think about a couple of things. Mushfiqur Rahim is one of their better batsmen. But he is not that safe with the gloves, and his captaincy is not tactically brilliant or all that inspiring. In young Liton Das, they have a wicketkeeper batsman who averages 50+ in FC cricket, a rarity in Bangladesh domestic cricket. As such, think they should play him as the wicketkeeper. Mushfiqur should be relieved of the captaincy and the gloves. The gloves should go to Das, and think Tamim Iqbal should be handed over the leadership of the test side. Mahmudullah made 64 today and looked solid against the seamers before he got out, but it wasn't a very convincing effort even then. Besides, he has been far too inconsistent in the longest format, despite being at the centre of Bangladesh's limited overs arrival that started in the last 50 over world cup. So he has to go and Das has to come in and bat 7 with Sabir moving up to 6.

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Post by msp83 Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:20 pm

As for India, yes, Ishant bowled himself into that 3rd seamer's position, and if Shami isn't fit and ready, he should get to start the Australia series. But we have seen far too many false starts from Ishant over the last 10 years. Yes, he had become half-decent in 5 years during that England tour, and then looked OK subsequently. But he never quite looked like really stepping up, and was back to the bad old ways by the time the West Indies series of last year arrived. But between him and Bhuvi, think it has to be the conditions that has to be decisive. On a track with some life for the quicks, swing or even seam, then it has to be Kumar, else Ishant. Hopefully it won't come to that for long, hopefully it will be Shami and Umesh, or someone like Shardul will step up sooner rather than later. Umesh himself is a very hit or miss bowler. Shami is the only high quality seamer we have. A combination of Umesh and Ishant would present us with a mediocre attack that might just have some decent and even good days now and then.

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