Eng vs. India...ODIs & T20s

First topic message reminder :

So Dhoni is gone.....amidst  lot of of glowing tributes...but we  suspect he was asked to go...his time was up quite sometime back.....and the BCCI did it in a nice way...
It's also being said that the Champions Trophy will be his retirement tournament if he performs vs Eng...else this might be his end series



Ind ODI squad: KL Rahul, Shikhar Dhawan, Virat Kohli (capt), MS Dhoni, Manish Pandey, Kedar Jadhav, Yuvraj Singh, Ajinkya Rahane, Hardik Pandya, R Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Amit Mishra, Jasprit Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Umesh Yadav


Ind T20I squad: KL Rahul, Mandeep Singh, Virat Kohli (capt), MS Dhoni (wk), Yuvraj Singh, Suresh Raina, Rishabh Pant (wk), Hardik Pandya, R Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Yuzvendra Chahal, Manish Pandey, Jasprit Bumrah, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Ashish Nehra


for completeness sake here are the Eng squads




England ODI squad:
Moeen Ali, Jonny Bairstow, Jake Ball, Sam Billings, Jos Buttler, Liam Dawson, Alex Hales, Eoin Morgan(c), Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey, Chris Woakes,
England T20I squad:
Moeen Ali, Jake Ball, Sam Billings, Jos Buttler, Liam Dawson, Alex Hales, Chris Jordan, Tymal Mills, Eoin Morgan(c), Liam Plunkett, Adil Rashid, Joe Root, Jason Roy, Ben Stokes, David Willey,

Terrible start for India.
Ah those good old days when a certain Virender Sehwag would come out thinking no total is beyond reach, and every ball is a potential boundary opportunity.......
Of course Sehwag was a much greater match winner in tests than in ODIs, and if anything, his limited overs record was rather underwhelming, but.......

This is an excellent start for England, do fancy them defending this now.

Alfie, long time not chat, hope all is good with ye.

Despite all the talk of Dhoni batting up the order, its Yuvraj at 4.......

As long as Kohli is there they have a chance

He could get 200 of these himself

Woakes a very underrated ODI bowler imo

Billy, this one was in the bag at the end of the first innings itself. Just lookout for the margin.......

I would feel a hell of a lot more confident if Kohli or Yuvraj got out msp...

Hi , billy ... All good with me ; yourself ?

Haven't been on so much lately : is it my imagination or has the cricket board been a bit quiet all round ? Christmas and all ...

Imagine you'll be looking forward to the Six Nations ?

All good in the hood here brother, still living the dream.

I have not been on the cricket board for ages myself. Really looking forward to the 6N, going to be close between Ireland and England.

Kohli is pure joy to watch.

Kohli is indeed wonderful to watch.

Perhaps not so much from the bowler's perspective

Yuvraj and Kohli both look up for this. If they stay around for another 20 overs then they can take this away from England.

Yuvraj out

Stokes has the magic touch today.

Dhoni and Kohli together so I will be able to retire for the night shortly - either one or both will get out , and England will have this under control ; or it will quickly become a feast of sixes and the result will only be a matter of time

alfie wrote:Good effort from England , I thought.  350 may still not be enough as India have some terrific bats and the England bowling is less reliable than their batting ; but it surely represents a very good score to defend.

Criticism of Root today is off centre , I think - he set himself to bat through , eventually fell trying to accelerate when he had lost partners...I note that Buttler didn't score any faster - and didn't go on today.
But Stokes - and Moeen - did the job in the late overs and hit the target : could they have done so without the job Root did in setting things up ?

Not going on from 80 or so in Tests is a different issue. But not relevant today.

Hi Alfie - I find it difficult to make a case against Root as I like and admire him. It would be a lot easier if I was filled with blind hatred and prejudice. Anyway, I'll still give it a go.

What you say above is true and my earlier post was more of a generic nature than about his contribution today. However, given the position where we and Root were, shouldn't we have been looking more to Root ''to do the job in the late overs'' rather than Stokes and Moeen? The fact that the latter two both did that job is to their credit and, admittedly as you suggest, also Root's in establishing the base position for them. Well as Root batted today (caveat that with I didn't see all of it), we would probably have ended up some way short of par had it not been for all the runs scored after he was back in the hutch.

My point really is that for all the (correct) talk of cricket being a team game, you still need match winners. For all his very decent and commendable contributions, Root doesn't perform that role enough for me. He'll still be about the first name inked in in my England team for any format but, given his ability, I find it hard to put aside some frustration.

It would take something very special from India to win from here. Dhoni gone now

eirebilly wrote:It would take something very special from India to win from here. Dhoni gone now

Yeah I think that's the game...up to nerly eight per over required now as well as being four down.

Kohli is good ; but I can't see him doing it all by himself. Reckon he'll run out of partners anyway...Surely the England spinners will be able to make a contribution ?

alfie wrote:Hi , billy ... All good with me  ; yourself ?

Haven't been on so much lately  : is it my imagination or has the cricket board been a bit quiet all round ? Christmas and all ...

Imagine you'll be looking forward to the Six Nations ?

Hi again Alfie - yeah, does seem to have been a bit quiet. Guess a few, like me, were away over Christmas and left Goose to argue with himself.

Hey , guildford ... Wasn't actually targeting you over the Root criticism - rather some of the OTT comments on cricinfo , etc.

As I indicated , I think the Test innings are a different animal. Haven't really studied his ODI record in detail but I'd have thought it was pretty sound ? But I do think , given the type of player England have batting around him , that there has been a conscious plan for Root to play the anchor role ; with the proviso that if he feels good he has a license to go for it in the latter part of the innings.
I think they feel the batting is solid enough all the way to ten so it isn't necessary for him to bat through : if Buttler isn't able to "finish" then Stokes or Moeen - or even Woakes or Willey - can do the job. Essentially , really playing as a team.

Won't always work , perhaps ; though it did today.

Just think that Root's obvious talent somewhat masks the fact that he isn't really a big hitter by nature : more a worker of the ball who can use his timing to produce boundaries and "maximums" but whose best role in the limited over team is to ensure a good position in the first thirty , thirty five overs ; and leave the real fireworks for his mates.
There will be days he scores more easily than today in any case. But I still thought it a far better innings than some of his critics seemed to recognize.

We will doubtless return to the issue of Test batting at the appropriate time ; I don't disagree with your reservations there , though mine are perhaps a little more muted. Debate for July , eh ?

Cheers, Alfie. In the diary for July.

Jadhav playing a blinder...

England will want to break this stand soonish. Still fancy them to defend , as once a wicket does fall the pressure will be back on India ; but these two have scored so quickly the required rate hasn't increased ...England will need to hold their nerve.

I have to work in the morning so am going to have to abandon this shortly : would like to see a couple of wickets

Jadhav is swing and connecting a few, he had already proven that he's any day a better option than Raina in the middle order. Virat's gone pass 50 as well, but there are far too many to get with far too many wickets gone. Pandya and Jadeja might just be able to slog a few, but can't expect them to get quality runs for long. And how long can Jadhav keep swinging and connecting like this?

England have 6 regular bowling options, and yet, Morgan has trusted Root to produce some magic to get through this annoying partnership. But Jadhav and Kohli are still there, just about keeping India's chase just above water

Virat Kohli is like some sort of cheat code

India 221/4 off 31.

As I said at the mid session, we're going to need 10 wickets to win this. Still possible but India are now favourites and England desperately need to break this partnership.

Christ on a bike, Kohli is bringing this home.

I know a lot will be made of Kohli's performance here but what an outstanding job being done by Yadhav, he has been superb and scoring at some rate.

Absolutely pathetic bowling display by England.

Typical England performance of late though. Got a record ODI score, had India on the ropes early on...then snatched defeat from the jaws of victory with buffet bowling.

I despair!

Fair enough Kohli has played a blinder but how the hell has Jadhav allowed to be on the brink of a ton himself?

I am not so sure that England have bowled that badly myself dyre, I simply think that Kohli and Yadhav have been superb. It happens sometimes that batsmen just destroy bowling attacks.

eirebilly wrote:I know a lot will be made of Kohli's performance here but what an outstanding job being done by Yadhav, he has been superb and scoring at some rate.

A lot resting on Jadhav now as Kohli goes. Game suddenly looks different as England go in search of the last 5 wickets ....

Interesting again now Guildford. Starting to have hope again.

eirebilly wrote:I am not so sure that England have bowled that badly myself dyre, I simply think that Kohli and Yadhav have been superb. It happens sometimes that batsmen just destroy bowling attacks.

True but it seems to be happening an awful lot with England lately.

How often have we seen them get themselves into a dominant position, only to throw it away with mindless batting or ineffectual bowling?

Yadhav gone now as well. This could get very tight.

eirebilly wrote:Yadhav gone now as well. This could get very tight.

They've got 4 wickets and 8 overs to get less than 40. They could still win quite comfortably - Jadeja can bat.

dyrewolfe wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Yadhav gone now as well. This could get very tight.

They've got 4 wickets and 8 overs to get less than 40. They could still win quite comfortably - Jadeja can bat.

I am living in hope

Jadeja out

318/7 off 44.1 as Jadeja falls.

3 wickets or 33 runs???

Well, just didn't see this getting this close.

msp83 wrote:Well, just didn't see this getting this close.

Ye of little faith

Hardik Pandya was involved in a close chase against NZ in the last series, he brought alive a chase that looked gone, and then lost his nerve at the finish line. He has played a good hand so far, but he'll have to see this one through.......

Just cant see India losing from here, was excited for a bit but they have just shown too much control.

eirebilly wrote:

msp83 wrote:Well, just didn't see this getting this close.

Ye of little faith

Msp - I did feel you were too pessimistic in your earlier posts. Seems a good track and the ground appears small (is that right?) - always believed you could manage 7 an over provided you kept enough wickets in hand. Mind you, I didn't anticipate the 200 partnership between Kohli and Jadhav!  

India 2 hits away! Very much their game to lose now. And they can get their in 12 hits, and that'll be the more sensible approach.

Well done Pandya!!

They indeed finish it off with a couple of hits over the boundary!

India need 8 runs off 2 overs. England need 3 wickets.

As I said before...England continue to find new and ridiculous ways to lose...

Remarkable win to start Kohli's limited overs captaincy. That too without contributions from most of the senior batsmen, Dhawan, Dhoni and Yuvraj!

Takeaways from the game today :

1) India is overflowing with batting talent.....likes of Pandey ( who scored a 60 ball 100 inn and against Aus in a chase ) and Rahane ( in my view India's best all format batsman) don't get in the 11

Rishab Pant and karun Nair don't get in the squad
And pujara , and rayadu very capable not even considered for the odis.
And Rohit India's first choice opener nursing a broken finger

Yuvraj and Dhoni are on a very short rope....Yuv was unlucky to be caught down the leg side , dhoni was beaten for pace hooking.

2) pitch was a Patta and will be so in Odis

3) I think Eng's best chance of winning an odi in this series is gone.

It indeed was an atrocious pitch and small boundaries. Hope we'll have at least one pitch like the one for the last NZ ODI. In fact, the pitches for that series were much better overall. The bowlers had some reason to consider turning up.......

The main problem England have is that Virat Kohli is a lot better at cricket than them.

Therefore I propose they should actively not take any wickets in the final two ODI's - so as to deny him the chance to bat

the ground in Kolkata is a lot bigger and the pitch always has something for the seamer or spinner
Cuttack is the other venue another Patta

in highlights i saw Yuv fell to an unlucky trickle down the leg side and Dhoni beaten for pace.....
batting first Ind could get 400 also in Cuttack
Jake Ball has impressed with the ball each time I have seen him....in addition to skill he has enthusiasm and willingness to really bend his back.
I do agree there is gotta be a bit more for bowlers in the pitches for ODIs......NZ series was indeed better....Aus series was most horrible.

KP_fan wrote:the ground in Kolkata is a lot bigger and the pitch always has something for the seamer or spinner
Cuttack is the other venue another Patta

in highlights i saw Yuv fell to an unlucky trickle down the leg side and Dhoni beaten for pace.....
batting first Ind could get 400 also in Cuttack
Jake Ball has impressed with the ball each time I have seen him....in addition to skill he has enthusiasm and willingness to really bend his back.
I do agree there is gotta be a bit more for bowlers in the pitches for ODIs......NZ series was indeed better....Aus series was most horrible.

And England could chase it, with the batting line up they have!

Question marks about England's bowling attach again - does Willey offer enough out of the first 10 to be a lock? Ball is promising, but England miss a genuine wicket taker in the middle overs - unfortunately not many Starcs about.

Wood would be the nearest thing, but he is made of glass.

Sensational knocks from Kohl (par for the course for him) and Jadhav. No matter the pitch, chasing 350 is not easy.

Really happy for Kedar Jadhav. His emergence can let India move on from the likes of Raina. Raina should be left alone to play IPL and domestic cricket. Not much more can he offer at the top level, he has had his more than fair share of chances.
Don't see Yuvraj Lasting too long at the top level any more. Coming through all that he has had to, it will be absolutely brilliant if he does, but think the reflexes have slowed and the fitness isn't quite there any more. As for MS, I do hope he has enough left in the tank for a while longer, but not sure about that. Hope they give young Rishabh a chance to play in the T-20s.