Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

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Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by George Carlin on Sun 08 Jan 2017, 7:41 am

First topic message reminder :

Not sure if this was picked up by other news outlets but I think that the issues in this piece are worth a more general discussion.

Townsend has been in the game a while now and is usually understated and measured, so he must have lost his sh!t somewhat to speak about this publicly:
Furious Gregor Townsend blasts clubs circling Finn Russell
DUNCAN SMITH
The Scotsman, 6 January 2017

Glasgow Warriors coach Gregor Townsend issued a “hands-off” warning in the strongest possible terms yesterday after reports that his star stand-off Finn Russell has attracted the interest of a number of clubs despite having a year and a half on his contract. Townsend expressed disappointment that at least four teams – understood to be Bath, Gloucester, Toulon and Scotland coach Vern Cotter’s next destination Montpellier – are believed to have been circling following a string of sensational performances by Russell this season. Townsend called for the sport’s governing body to crack down on behaviour he believes to be contrary to the “morality” of rugby. “If clubs are speaking to our players when they have still got 18 months of contract left it is not right,” he said. “If what has been said is correct and four clubs are interested then World Rugby has to do something about it.” The global “regulation 4” regarding player contact does not specify any time restraint, though domestic leagues can instigate their own understanding between member clubs, but stresses that contact should be made through proper channels – in this case the SRU. Townsend continued: “There have been a number of developments in the game, where before there was much more understanding, comprehension, morality in terms of not speaking to players until they got to the last year of their contract, six months in the case of the Aviva Premiership.”

Townsend revealed that Racing 92 had approached Leone Nakarawa on the day of their Champions Cup game last 
season when he still had more than a year left on his deal. Ultimately the Fijian lock was allowed to join the Parisian side for a fee. “Now this is not right. If one of our players is being spoken to about clubs when they clearly have 18 months of their contract left it is clearly not right,” added the coach. “We want to retain our players. Finn will be a Glasgow player for the next season and a half. He is contracted here. “World Rugby need to start dealing with this. You go to the club and ask ‘is this player in contract?’, ‘is it the last few months?’ ‘Is it another year?’ You don’t speak to the individual. I can only go on what is being speculated in the media if this is happening. If it is it is wrong.” The strength of Townsend’s words made clear that this was more than media speculation, of course, and he did admit that he had spoken to Russell, who returns to the Warriors’ starting line-up for tonight’s Guinness Pro12 match against Cardiff Blues at Scotstoun, about the situation, but said: “I would prefer to keep that conversation in house.

“He is aware he is contracted here and it is up to us to get the best out of him when he is still at the club and contribute to the club doing well which is what he is doing. “We have seen improvement and there is a lot more improvement to come.” If a club was to come and make a proper approach Townsend insisted that they would be firmly told that “he is not available”. Russell was already regarded as a highly promising young talent but his stock has rocketed in recent months with sparkling displays for club and country, specifically the double-header against Racing 92 in which he outclassed the great Dan Carter. Townsend, of course, takes over as Scotland coach at the end of the season and agreed that Russell’s nationality made him a different case from Nakarawa.

“Obviously, the Scotland perspective is massively important. You get managed and rested appropriately,” he said. “Leone left for Racing. We allowed him to leave but that situation was wrong as well. A player being approached the day of the game by the opposition in a Champions Cup game in the hotel before we played that team, and then the coaching staff speaking to that player after we play them is wrong. “Clubs will do it to destabilise situations for that player. But we made the decision that Leone can leave. “For Finn and any other number of players who have got 18 months to go on a contract, and we are dealing with Finn, he will be a Glasgow player for that period.”
Taking our wendyball sisters as a basis for comparison, under existing rules between FIFA and the FA (for clubs playing in England), if another club wants to procure the services of a player that is registered with another club they must speak directly with that club and not to the player or his agent. The individual player and the agent who represents him will only be brought in for discussions with the potential purchasing club once the two clubs have agreed on a fee. Failure to do so means fines all round and agents can have their licenses revoked.

Is that what we need here?
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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by marty2086 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 11:28 am

True Raven wrote:He came here to study and refusing to pick him for England unless he plays in England is pathetic despite as mentioned none of you would have heard of him had it not been for the Ospreys

You cant say that unless you have a crystal ball

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 11:33 am

My heart bleeds for the Ospreys.

After all they spent oodles of resources and time developing a young player who ups sticks and leaves, for a pittance.


Oh hang on. Gloucester developed him and captains England U18s. Injury means he initially misses out on U20s. He goes to Uni and signs for the local Welsh Premiership team and then an injury crisis and RWC see the lad called up to the Ospreys. They have had plenty out of him so far and now get £150k for minimum investment. Pretty good really.

The biggest losers are actually Gloucester, who received no payment from anyone for developing the lad as he left England, but would have received a sizeable sum if he had joined Bath instead of Bridgend.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 11:52 am

LondonTiger wrote:My heart bleeds for the Ospreys.

After all they spent oodles of resources and time developing a young player who ups sticks and leaves, for a pittance.


Oh hang on. Gloucester developed him and captains England U18s. Injury means he initially misses out on U20s. He goes to Uni and signs for the local Welsh Premiership team and then an injury crisis and RWC see the lad called up to the Ospreys. They have had plenty out of him so far and now get £150k for minimum investment. Pretty good really.

The biggest losers are actually Gloucester, who received no payment from anyone for developing the lad as he left England, but would have received a sizeable sum if he had joined Bath instead of Bridgend.

Bit harsh. The Ospreys were the only ones that took a punt on him. They deserve credit in getting him to where he is surely?

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:04 pm

If Ospreys had picked him straight up I would give more credit. As it is, following a year out with injury, he turned down a pro contract at Glaws to go to Uni and sign semi pro with Bridgend. Ospreys needed a player and called up the best performer from their feeder clubs.

Sure they deserve some credit and were sensible to switch him from the semi-pro contract to a (small) full one. They will be getting a large chunk of cash for a player who has made 12 starts in top flight competition

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:08 pm

LondonTiger wrote:If Ospreys had picked him straight up I would give more credit. As it is, following a year out with injury, he turned down a pro contract at Glaws to go to Uni and sign semi pro with Bridgend. Ospreys needed a player and called up the best performer from their feeder clubs.

Sure they deserve some credit and were sensible to switch him from the semi-pro contract to a (small) full one. They will be getting a large chunk of cash for a player who has made 12 starts in top flight competition

Seems to me like you've got a bit of a beef with the Ospreys. Sure they were lucky that he went to Uni in their catchment area but they have developed the guy too. Don't forget that they also don't really want to lose him and now their playing staff has been reduced. But their hands are tied.

I do agree it's a nice earner for them though. £150k. No problems with that transfer fee system. I wish we'd see more of it to be honest.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:13 pm

I have no beef with the Ospreys, only with anyone who feels they are being hard done by.


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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:15 pm

LondonTiger wrote:My heart bleeds for the Ospreys.

After all they spent oodles of resources and time developing a young player who ups sticks and leaves, for a pittance.


Oh hang on. Gloucester developed him and captains England U18s. Injury means he initially misses out on U20s. He goes to Uni and signs for the local Welsh Premiership team and then an injury crisis and RWC see the lad called up to the Ospreys. They have had plenty out of him so far and now get £150k for minimum investment. Pretty good really.

The biggest losers are actually Gloucester, who received no payment from anyone for developing the lad as he left England, but would have received a sizeable sum if he had joined Bath instead of Bridgend.

Developed him how? No one had barely heard of the guy until last season and now hes touted as a future England player. There are many young players playing age grade rugby that never make the step up. Seems the Ospreys did the developing from the tuterage he got from Tandy, Tips etc

It is good money for him but id rather Underhill for another year

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by marty2086 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:21 pm

True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:My heart bleeds for the Ospreys.

After all they spent oodles of resources and time developing a young player who ups sticks and leaves, for a pittance.


Oh hang on. Gloucester developed him and captains England U18s. Injury means he initially misses out on U20s. He goes to Uni and signs for the local Welsh Premiership team and then an injury crisis and RWC see the lad called up to the Ospreys. They have had plenty out of him so far and now get £150k for minimum investment. Pretty good really.

The biggest losers are actually Gloucester, who received no payment from anyone for developing the lad as he left England, but would have received a sizeable sum if he had joined Bath instead of Bridgend.

Developed him how?  No one had barely heard of the guy until last season and now hes touted as a future England player.  There are many young players playing age grade rugby that never make the step up.  Seems the Ospreys did the developing from the tuterage he got from Tandy, Tips etc

It is good money for him but id rather Underhill for another year

What are you talking about? Because a player gets recognised somewhere doesn't mean that club developed him. Underhill walked into the Ospreys setup and stood out on his debut and has done so with most appearances

He was England u18 captain, making the squad shows he was already a decent player being captain usually means something special based on the recent past

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:My heart bleeds for the Ospreys.

After all they spent oodles of resources and time developing a young player who ups sticks and leaves, for a pittance.


Oh hang on. Gloucester developed him and captains England U18s. Injury means he initially misses out on U20s. He goes to Uni and signs for the local Welsh Premiership team and then an injury crisis and RWC see the lad called up to the Ospreys. They have had plenty out of him so far and now get £150k for minimum investment. Pretty good really.

The biggest losers are actually Gloucester, who received no payment from anyone for developing the lad as he left England, but would have received a sizeable sum if he had joined Bath instead of Bridgend.

Developed him how?  No one had barely heard of the guy until last season and now hes touted as a future England player.  There are many young players playing age grade rugby that never make the step up.  Seems the Ospreys did the developing from the tuterage he got from Tandy, Tips etc

It is good money for him but id rather Underhill for another year

What are you talking about? Because a player gets recognised somewhere doesn't mean that club developed him. Underhill walked into the Ospreys setup and stood out on his debut and has done so with most appearances

He was England u18 captain, making the squad shows he was already a decent player being captain usually means something special based on the recent past

They can have a hand in his development but he wasn't touted for the England senior team when he was at Gloucester was he?

Kinda like when Ulster had a hand in Bowes development but he only truly reached his potential when at the Ospreys Whistle

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:37 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I have no beef with the Ospreys, only with anyone who feels they are being hard done by.


I'm really sorry for being annoyed that one of our young stars got poached halfway through his contract Rolling Eyes

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by marty2086 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:38 pm

True Raven wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:My heart bleeds for the Ospreys.

After all they spent oodles of resources and time developing a young player who ups sticks and leaves, for a pittance.


Oh hang on. Gloucester developed him and captains England U18s. Injury means he initially misses out on U20s. He goes to Uni and signs for the local Welsh Premiership team and then an injury crisis and RWC see the lad called up to the Ospreys. They have had plenty out of him so far and now get £150k for minimum investment. Pretty good really.

The biggest losers are actually Gloucester, who received no payment from anyone for developing the lad as he left England, but would have received a sizeable sum if he had joined Bath instead of Bridgend.

Developed him how?  No one had barely heard of the guy until last season and now hes touted as a future England player.  There are many young players playing age grade rugby that never make the step up.  Seems the Ospreys did the developing from the tuterage he got from Tandy, Tips etc

It is good money for him but id rather Underhill for another year

What are you talking about? Because a player gets recognised somewhere doesn't mean that club developed him. Underhill walked into the Ospreys setup and stood out on his debut and has done so with most appearances

He was England u18 captain, making the squad shows he was already a decent player being captain usually means something special based on the recent past

They can have a hand in his development but he wasn't touted for the England senior team when he was at Gloucester was he?

Kinda like when Ulster had a hand in Bowes development but he only truly reached his potential when at the Ospreys Whistle

Who said he wasn't touted for the senior England squad?

Well he finally got to play in the knockout stages in Europe at Ulster thumbsup

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:39 pm

I assume that there are restrictions on Welsh players playing outside if Wales then as you ignored the question.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:40 pm

True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I have no beef with the Ospreys, only with anyone who feels they are being hard done by.


I'm really sorry for being annoyed that one of our young stars got poached halfway through his contract Rolling Eyes

He's hardly been poached. He's been bought like others have.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:44 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I assume that there are restrictions on Welsh players playing outside if Wales then as you ignored the question.

I didnt ignore it, i missed it.

You know there are but at least theres an option for Welsh players playing outside of Wales to still play for their country unlike for English players

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:46 pm

Thanks. So to go back to the first point I'm spot on that Wales have a similar rule. Thanks again.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:52 pm

Hey this Underhill must be some player! And ive never seen him play!!

I bet he's no Mark Wilson though.... Whistle Wink

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:53 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I have no beef with the Ospreys, only with anyone who feels they are being hard done by.


I'm really sorry for being annoyed that one of our young stars got poached halfway through his contract Rolling Eyes

He's hardly been poached. He's been bought like others have.

Sorry Rugbyfan100 but I dont think we're going to see eye to eye on this topic thumbsup

However come next season during the international window i'd rather Sam Underhill be lining up at 7 rather than an extra £150k in the bank

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:56 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Thanks. So to go back to the first point I'm spot on that Wales have a similar rule. Thanks again.

No because Welsh players are still eligible to play for Wales (albeit there might be some restrictions placed on them) but they ALL have the option to play for Wales. That option is not given to English players playing outside of England hence why Underhill has to move back to England to play for England whilst Moriarty can still play at Gloucester

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 12:59 pm

Very similar then where Wales place a limit on he amount that can be picked. Similar to England and NZ. Good on the RFU doing this, helps the prem and helps prevent to an extent top players being lost to other leagues. Looking forward to seeing for Bath if he can get a game!

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:03 pm

True Raven wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I have no beef with the Ospreys, only with anyone who feels they are being hard done by.


I'm really sorry for being annoyed that one of our young stars got poached halfway through his contract Rolling Eyes

He's hardly been poached. He's been bought like others have.

Sorry Rugbyfan100 but I dont think we're going to see eye to eye on this topic thumbsup

However come next season during the international window i'd rather Sam Underhill be lining up at 7 rather than an extra £150k in the bank

I agree - We're probably not. kiss

I guarantee though that if the Ospreys we're in the same boat and they were flush with cash and desperate to get their man in a similar system, they wouldn't think twice about doing what Bath have done. Nor should they.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:04 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Very similar then where Wales place a limit on he amount that can be picked. Similar to England and NZ. Good on the RFU doing this, helps the prem and helps prevent to an extent top players being lost to other leagues. Looking forward to seeing for Bath if he can get a game!

Ahhh No 7&1/2 you should be disappointed that he's going back to the premiership as when was the last time England produced a decent 7 Whistle

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:06 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I have no beef with the Ospreys, only with anyone who feels they are being hard done by.


I'm really sorry for being annoyed that one of our young stars got poached halfway through his contract Rolling Eyes

He's hardly been poached. He's been bought like others have.

Sorry Rugbyfan100 but I dont think we're going to see eye to eye on this topic thumbsup

However come next season during the international window i'd rather Sam Underhill be lining up at 7 rather than an extra £150k in the bank

I agree - We're probably not.  kiss

I guarantee though that if the Ospreys we're in the same boat and they were  flush with cash and desperate to get their man in a similar system, they wouldn't think twice about doing what Bath have done. Nor should they.

We did though have cash during our 'Galactico's era' (man i hated that name) before it dried up but to my memory we didn't offer any clubs a transfer fee for any players.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:07 pm

What do you class as decent? Wood. Robshaw. Haskell. Armitage. Fraser. To be honest quite a long list depending on your classification.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:08 pm

True Raven wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Very similar then where Wales place a limit on he amount that can be picked. Similar to England and NZ. Good on the RFU doing this, helps the prem and helps prevent to an extent top players being lost to other leagues. Looking forward to seeing for Bath if he can get a game!

Ahhh No 7&1/2 you should be disappointed that he's going back to the premiership as when was the last time England produced a decent 7 Whistle

Kvesic
Armitage
Welch
Hazel
Seymour
Fraser
Robshaw
etc
etc

Oh theres actually been a few decent ones...

And if you want to be pedantic...Haskell!!

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:13 pm

True Raven wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:I have no beef with the Ospreys, only with anyone who feels they are being hard done by.


I'm really sorry for being annoyed that one of our young stars got poached halfway through his contract Rolling Eyes

He's hardly been poached. He's been bought like others have.

Sorry Rugbyfan100 but I dont think we're going to see eye to eye on this topic thumbsup

However come next season during the international window i'd rather Sam Underhill be lining up at 7 rather than an extra £150k in the bank

I agree - We're probably not.  kiss

I guarantee though that if the Ospreys we're in the same boat and they were  flush with cash and desperate to get their man in a similar system, they wouldn't think twice about doing what Bath have done. Nor should they.

We did though have cash during our 'Galactico's era' (man i hated that name) before it dried up but to my memory we didn't offer any clubs a transfer fee for any players.

Without the "play in Wales for Wales" thing it's always going to be a more prominent practice in England than it is in Wales.

If a club is prepared to stump up early to buy out a contract, it puts that club at the top of the list and not in the free for all when the player's contract ends. Good business practice. If you can afford it.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:15 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What do you class as decent? Wood. Robshaw. Haskell. Armitage. Fraser. To be honest quite a long list depending on your classification.

It was a light hearted comment, hence the whistle after it, based on the fact that he seems likely to be fast tracked into the England set up.

Unless you actually want me to give you a detailed decription of what I think the word decent means

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:17 pm

Yeah can do.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:28 pm

Bath have poached nobody, Ospreys have done very well out the deal.

Ospreys have done little to claim they've developed him, he was England U18 captain. Gloucester were very upset about him leaving and would have got game time over the last few seasons.

All Ospreys have done is give him valuable game time to showcase his considerable talents and as an England fan I thank them for that.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:33 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Bath have poached nobody, Ospreys have done very well out the deal.

Ospreys have done little to claim they've developed him, he was England U18 captain. Gloucester were very upset about him leaving and would have got game time over the last few seasons.

All Ospreys have done is give him valuable game time to showcase his considerable talents and as an England fan I thank them for that.

Ok thumbsup

I remember when there were plenty of English clubs lining up to offer a contract to the next great hope at 7 who had this enormous potential. It is strange though why no club actually made him an offer then Headscratch


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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:35 pm

They did. What do you class as decent. Good of Wasps to develop Young for Wales though.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:37 pm

That's because he was heading to Uni, do you know if clubs made offers?

Also, Ospreys didn't go for either if I'm correct. He was picked up after performances for a local side and injuries.

He's hardly came from nowhere, he was England U18 captain and was around the set-up for a number of years.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:39 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:They did.  What do you class as decent. Good of Wasps to develop Young for Wales though.

They did develop Young though and as a Welsh fan i say thank you Wasps, the guy was crap at the Blues and could barely get a game

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:41 pm

So 2 for 2 then in 7s developed by the English clubs. Young at wasps and underhill at Glaws.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:42 pm

Gloucester were the only professional club who offered Underhill a contract.

Academy rules then precluded anyone else from the AP doing the same. In other countries no-one else had heard of him until his college coach directed him to Bridgend.

As it is things seem to have worked out nicely for all involved (bar Glaws). Underhill ended up getting games he woudl probably not have got in the AP (think he made one AP appearance prior to leaving?). Ospreys had a player who helped fill in when the international back rowers were unavailable and now Bath seem to have picked up a guy who has a lot of promise.

Time will tell if he lives up to the hype Very Happy

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:45 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:That's because he was heading to Uni, do you know if clubs made offers?

Also, Ospreys didn't go for either if I'm correct. He was picked up after performances for a local side and injuries.

He's hardly came from nowhere, he was England U18 captain and was around the set-up for a number of years.


He joined my club (Bridgend Ravens) but didn't play for us.  The Ospreys have a look at all players training in the catchment area and invite players to come and train at Llandarcy.

I stated before, there are numerous players at age grade rugby who looked good but have never made the step up.  Remember Alex Gray.......

Just a little about him 'The former Barnard Castle School Schoolboy and Newcastle Falcons Academy player has captained England to Grand Slams at both Under-16s and 18s levels, making his Under-18s debut three years young when they toured Australia in 2007. He then skippered the Under-18s through a clean sweep in the 2008 Home Nations tournament, before leading them to six wins from six on their summer tour to Argentina. 2009 saw more success at age group level as he led England 18s again, before signing a two-year first team contract at the age of just 17'

Playing age grade rugby does not guarentee you success as a professional

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:46 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So 2 for 2 then in 7s developed by the English clubs. Young at wasps and underhill at Glaws.

Maybe you do develop decent 7's after all thumbsup

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by True Raven on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:47 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Gloucester were the only professional club who offered Underhill a contract.

Academy rules then precluded anyone else from the AP doing the same. In other countries no-one else had heard of him until his college coach directed him to Bridgend.

As it is things seem to have worked out nicely for all involved (bar Glaws). Underhill ended up getting games he woudl probably not have got in the AP (think he made one AP appearance prior to leaving?). Ospreys had a player who helped fill in when the international back rowers were unavailable and now Bath seem to have picked up a guy who has a lot of promise.

Time will tell if he lives up to the hype Very Happy

He'll be a superstar, I have no doubt about that

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 1:54 pm

True Raven wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:That's because he was heading to Uni, do you know if clubs made offers?

Also, Ospreys didn't go for either if I'm correct. He was picked up after performances for a local side and injuries.

He's hardly came from nowhere, he was England U18 captain and was around the set-up for a number of years.


He joined my club (Bridgend Ravens) but didn't play for us.  The Ospreys have a look at all players training in the catchment area and invite players to come and train at Llandarcy.

I stated before, there are numerous players at age grade rugby who looked good but have never made the step up.  Remember Alex Gray.......

Just a little about him 'The former Barnard Castle School Schoolboy and Newcastle Falcons Academy player has captained England to Grand Slams at both Under-16s and 18s levels, making his Under-18s debut three years young when they toured Australia in 2007. He then skippered the Under-18s through a clean sweep in the 2008 Home Nations tournament, before leading them to six wins from six on their summer tour to Argentina. 2009 saw more success at age group level as he led England 18s again, before signing a two-year first team contract at the age of just 17'

Playing age grade rugby does not guarentee you success as a professional

Absolutely!

However moving clubs at a crucial stage in your development when you will likely get far more starting / gametime at your current club isn't going to help you either.

Likewise McGuigan...I don't think has really made the right choice to move.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:10 pm

Playing age grade rugby for England tends to lead to success though, we're the best in the world remember at the younger levels.

Also, he was captain. Recent captains at U20 level include Itoje and Clifford who've done quite well for themselves.

Again, thanks for giving him some game time to showcase his talents.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by BamBam on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:21 pm

If it wasn't for the Welsh making noises about pinching yet another English born player, maybe Underhill would be lining up for Ospreys for the duration of his contract

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by marty2086 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:24 pm

BamBam wrote:If it wasn't for the Welsh making noises about pinching yet another English born player, maybe Underhill would be lining up for Ospreys for the duration of his contract

Not sure about that, the RFU and WRU both had people watching him early on for Ospreys and Jones has been trying to get him into the England squad since he came in so was always likely to get bought out. Especially as he would be Welsh qualified at the end of the contract and they wouldn't want him ending up in red

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:27 pm

Not sure that if England challenged his Welsh eligibility it would have stood up if he had 'qualified' as residency excludes moving for studies normally.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by marty2086 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:35 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure that if England challenged his Welsh eligibility it would have stood up if he had 'qualified' as residency excludes moving for studies normally.

Think with studies its just more complicated, its all to do with their primary and permanent home. If he hadn't signed a contract with Ospreys he probably wouldn't qualify for Wales but think the contract makes it permanent and primary

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:36 pm

Rugby loves straight forward simple rules eh?

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 2:54 pm

Surely its down to the young lads desires. Hasn't he already said he only wants to play for England....pretty much issue solved.

Especially if he goes to bath.

Still never seen the lad play....he must be McCaw level good the hype and coverage he's getting! Better than itoje....

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by marty2086 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:14 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Surely its down to the young lads desires. Hasn't he already said he only wants to play for England....pretty much issue solved.

Especially if he goes to bath.

Still never seen the lad play....he must be McCaw level good the hype and coverage he's getting! Better than itoje....

Things happen though, if he was to fall out of favour or someone else usurps him then he may be out of the picture and decide Wales is the better bet for him

Saying that though he is bloody good, he made his debut against Ulster and looked good in a short period

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:19 pm

SO what is it that's so good about him?


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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:22 pm

I've read an article with Underhill a while back stating he only wants to play for England.

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:24 pm

So Finn Russell is staying at Glasgow for the time being anyway. It prompted an interesting discussion though!

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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed 11 Jan 2017, 3:26 pm

Can someone please tell me what is so good about this young lad that's warranting all this.


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Re: Player Poaching & Transfer Ethics

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