The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

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The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 09 Jan 2017, 4:28 pm

First topic message reminder :

I stepped out and she stepped in again
I stepped out and she stepped in again
learning to dance for Lanigan's Ball


In thinking about recent goings-on at union level within the PRO12, I was reminded of the lyrics of this old song as unions, corporate interests, private investors, Welsh benefactors, and sundry money-makers make their various moves on the PRO12 dance floor.  Scotland and Ireland seem to be bashfully eyeing up the investor lads on one side of the hall, fluttering their eyelashes, whilst on the other side, the Welsh bennys (as they're affectionately known Wink ) are making tapes and throwing shapes, whilst secretly hoping eagerly that they might get a chance to sign the WRU's card for a dance or two.  Meanwhile, the Italians dither in the middle wondering where they should be but won't tell anyone that they don't know even the music.  

But for now the band has taken a break whilst the visiting Europeans and Anglo heavies make their way onto the floor to start their version of French/Anglo hopscotch involving a number of bulky partners, foreign tap dancers, celtic coaches, and comic millionaires.

It's a good a time as any for a quick cuppa and a chance to talk about where the PRO12 is going with all the plans for expansion to US and Europe suddenly gone quiet, some league quality improvements, big weekend derbies, more neutral officials, and what else is on the horizon for upcoming changes within the PRO12.

The looming spectre of dwindling money and funding ever more expensive teams for the future seems to be the next big issue and where that is all going to come from.   Hopes of improved TV deals, better sponsors and business supporters of the league remain a distant aspiration - although the recent appointment of a commercial director to work alongside Martin Anayi on securing the best deals possible seems to be a step in the right direction.  Some are holding their whisth on that one.

Ownership and financing of the teams themselves is the most urgent and vexing issue facing the four unions operating in the PRO12.  Over the last number of months, the SRU have been making a lot of noise and some news headlines with their plans to bring in private investment to its two Scottish clubs to help meet some of the ongoing costs involved.   The SRU says it can't continue to finance the two teams at current levels of revenue and costs, and they need to bring in private investors/business to meet a substantial portion of the costs in return for a stake in one or both of the two clubs.  How much that stake would be is not clear as the SRU would want to keep their hand in the two clubs responsible for generating its line of test players, but whether that would be a 51% stake or less remains to be seen.   A voting process in late 2016 saw members give the green light to the Scottish Union to pursue this path of identifying and securing potential investment but only time will tell if it will draw in any worthwhile investors.

Italian rugby seems to lurch from one crisis to the next with the FIR having to bail out both Treviso and Zebre in recent times with substantial commitments of money.  After the last crisis, which saw a number of players leave the two clubs, it is Treviso who have fared better with the backing of Bennetton, and it is Zebre who are staring down the barrel of closure at season end once again.  A new franchise, based in Rome, is being rumoured to be on the cards with the FIR willing to put financial support into its development.   For many within the PRO12, and without, the Italian project seems to be a wasted exercise and just amounts to weekly humiliation as opposition teams pile up the points, regularly taking home try bonus points in their victories. For others, the Italian involvement is a long game and one that has to be persevered with.    Yet, the FIR is still not a shareholder in Celtic Rugby, the company which manages the PRO12 - the latest filings with the Companies Registration Office in Dublin shows that the three Celtic unions remain the founding shareholders, and critically, the beneficiaries of any financial dealing that flow through it - particularly in relation to TV broadcasting deals such as Sky Sports.  This current season, it took until Round 6 before an Italian broadcaster could be secured for covering the home matches of Treviso and Zebre, and with crowds often hovering around 1,500-2,000, this didn't raise many eyebrows.  for the foreseeable future, Italian rugby will stay within the PRO12, and the FIR will continue to be a major stakeholder/financier in the teams.

Irish rugby has been dabbling with business support for a number of years now with the provincial teams drawing in sponsorships, player salary top-ups, and increasing financial support for the various provinces through different types of schemes devised by the individual branches.   Jamie Heaslip recently re-signed with Leinster on what's likely to be his final playing contract before retirement (at age 37).  One of Ireland’s most consistent and durable players, he’s also been one of the most consistently highest paid through his IRFU central contract, and a salary top-up through his Leinster club with a business sponsorship deal with Bank of Ireland.  

But these adhoc business supports and extended sponsorships/player promotions and brand ambassadors do not fill the coffers of the branches sufficiently to grow and expand, it's sufficient only to pay the salaries of 2-3 players to keep them in place against ever higher competing offers from the TV-deal-enriched clubs in England and France.  As the IRFU pointed at the launch of its annual report last June, the IRFU cannot continue to be "the bank of last resort" for the provinces - following a €1 million plus bailout of Munster, and a €250k additional budget for each province to help them compete on player salaries.   A number of the provinces have sought quietly to persuade the IRFU to consider opening up the provinces’ branch company structures to allow private investors to take a stake in each of the provinces in return for continued investment over a period of time.  Until the last year, those overtures have been largely rebuffed with the occasional odd positive murmur about the need to keep control if such a development were to be envisaged.   It is rumoured that alongside the SRU’s current moves, the IRFU is also investigating how the branches’ structures could be altered to allow such investment in the future.  A variant of the NZRU model whereby they allowed private investors to take a stake in each of the five Super Rugby franchises is being considered, but the IRFU would want to maintain a controlling stake that gives them oversight and control in line with the current player management policy and protocols they have in place.  

As the IRFU have stated time and again, the revenues from the test game is what keeps the whole of Irish rugby afloat - interfering with or disabling that in some way is not something they would countenance.  Equally, the union recognises that costs will continue to rise in the PRO12 and wider club game with player salaries being biggest driver.   Their investment policy has switched from paying out large salaries to high-profile capped foreign players to investing in the domestic pathway development (€10m over the last 3 years) - with the emergence of some fine academy players across the provinces proving testament to this approach led by David Nucifora on behalf of the IRFU.

Nonetheless, the club game is getting bigger and more financially competitive so if a methodology can be developed to allow private investment takes its place at the table, it’s likely to happen over the next few years.  

But as two unions move across the dance floor looking for wealthy partners, the Welsh benefactors are being drawn (protestingly for some) from the other side by the WRU who have recently announced that they see the future of the Welsh game involving a marriage of both union and private investment funds.  As two unions prepare to step out, the Welsh union is preparing to step in again.   The Dragons region has been languishing in the shop window for the past year, gathering dust as various investor-type people amble up, take a poke and move off again without buying.   Martin Phillps was pushed recently in an interview to say that the WRU couldn't allow the region to fold, but he wasn't too specific in public as to what kind of support they might bring.  Equally, he was encouraged enough to say that increased union funding for the four regions seemed to be inevitable - but he didn't say what price they might extract for such investment.  Would the benefactors/shareholders be asked to move on, or move around the table to make more room for union faces to sit down?  

Whilst there are those who pine for a future whereby pure private investment and ownership rules the roost like their counterparts in England and France, the likelihood of that model being created and surviving does not seem to be on anyone's dance cards.   More likely, a marriage of convenience may be arrived at, wherein true love may never be expressed, but at least the two parties will be able to pay the mortgage together, and maybe afford a new extension or two in the near future to mix a few metaphors.

But for now, let the European hopscotch begin, and then the merry four-nation dance can begin again.

All together now:

Sixteen long years we spent in Dub-i-lin
Sixteen long years doin' nothing at all
Sixteen long years we spent in Dub-i-lin
Learning to dance at the PRO12 ball.

They stepped out, and they stepped in again......
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 2:48 pm

Sin é wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
munkian wrote:
PhilBB wrote:By my reckoning, the Scots are underpaying by about £4m a year and BBC NI needs to spend about £1.8m a year to be in line.

Im guessing thats pale in comparison to how much extra  the Irish TV companies should be chipping in ?

£4m from Scotland, £1.8m from Northern Ireland and about €4m from the Republic of Ireland. 

There's £9m to just stand still.

I'm sure the Welsh Regions will come up with some way to sabotage the next tv negotiations Wink



Yet still bring in more than four times the value than IRFU 1, 2 and 4 manage. 

I remember you telling me that Sky only took the deal to show packed Irish grounds, only for the schedule of Sky to disprove that nonsense claim.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 2:48 pm

PhilBB wrote:By my reckoning, the Scots are underpaying by about £4m a year and BBC NI needs to spend about £1.8m a year to be in line.

£1.8m would be close to £1 per head of total population. Why should BBCNI pay Ulster, one team compared to the Regions 4, almost 2/3 of what the Regions receive from their broadcasters?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 2:52 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:By my reckoning, the Scots are underpaying by about £4m a year and BBC NI needs to spend about £1.8m a year to be in line.

£1.8m would be close to £1 per head of total population. Why should BBCNI pay Ulster, one team compared to the Regions 4, almost 2/3 of what the Regions receive from their broadcasters?

The BBC spend in Wales is over £1 per head of population.

The BBC local spend in NI is about half of the BBC local spend in Wales. Therefore, NI should pay half of what Wales pays - if we are keeping the linear relationship.

That's why.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:By my reckoning, the Scots are underpaying by about £4m a year and BBC NI needs to spend about £1.8m a year to be in line.

£1.8m would be close to £1 per head of total population. Why should BBCNI pay Ulster, one team compared to the Regions 4, almost 2/3 of what the Regions receive from their broadcasters?

The BBC spend in Wales is over £1 per head of population.

The BBC local spend in NI is about half of the BBC local spend in Wales. Therefore, NI should pay half of what Wales pays - if we are keeping the linear relationship.

That's why.

The BBC stated:

"The BBC has revealed that it is spending far more per head on people in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland than in England.

The corporation is spending the most per person in Wales, £83.60, followed by Northern Ireland, at £83.40 per person and then Scotland at £72.20. The figure for England is £52.10."

Obviously that's not £83.60 per each of the total population, otherwise it would be a huge amount, so what are they basing their 'per person' on?

You say the BBC spend in Wales is £1 per person. I guess you're basing that on how much the Regions are paid, and comparing to total population, but do you have official figures to back that up?

Also, what percentage of each total budget is dedicated to sports, and how much control do the regional broadcasters have in allocating that budget?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:11 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:By my reckoning, the Scots are underpaying by about £4m a year and BBC NI needs to spend about £1.8m a year to be in line.

£1.8m would be close to £1 per head of total population. Why should BBCNI pay Ulster, one team compared to the Regions 4, almost 2/3 of what the Regions receive from their broadcasters?

The BBC spend in Wales is over £1 per head of population.

The BBC local spend in NI is about half of the BBC local spend in Wales. Therefore, NI should pay half of what Wales pays - if we are keeping the linear relationship.

That's why.

The BBC stated:

"The BBC has revealed that it is spending far more per head on people in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland than in England.

The corporation is spending the most per person in Wales, £83.60, followed by Northern Ireland, at £83.40 per person and then Scotland at £72.20. The figure for England is £52.10."

Obviously that's not £83.60 per each of the total population, otherwise it would be a huge amount, so what are they basing their 'per person' on?

?

Maybe it's License fee payers?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:12 pm

Erm, scroll back. I've posted the BBC local spend in Wales, NI and Scotland - with figures taking from the BBC Annual Report.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:23 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:By my reckoning, the Scots are underpaying by about £4m a year and BBC NI needs to spend about £1.8m a year to be in line.

£1.8m would be close to £1 per head of total population. Why should BBCNI pay Ulster, one team compared to the Regions 4, almost 2/3 of what the Regions receive from their broadcasters?

The BBC spend in Wales is over £1 per head of population.

The BBC local spend in NI is about half of the BBC local spend in Wales. Therefore, NI should pay half of what Wales pays - if we are keeping the linear relationship.

That's why.

The BBC stated:

"The BBC has revealed that it is spending far more per head on people in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland than in England.

The corporation is spending the most per person in Wales, £83.60, followed by Northern Ireland, at £83.40 per person and then Scotland at £72.20. The figure for England is £52.10."

Obviously that's not £83.60 per each of the total population, otherwise it would be a huge amount, so what are they basing their 'per person' on?

?

Maybe it's License fee payers?

Could be right. Makes sense if there are roughly 359k licence fee payers, with roughly 1 in 8/9 of total population. Sounds about right.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:26 pm

Total BBC income is £4.827bn
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:33 pm

PhilBB wrote:Erm, scroll back. I've posted the BBC local spend in Wales, NI and Scotland - with figures taking from the BBC Annual Report.

So, combined Wales budget is £97.4m. BBCNI budget is £53.3m.

If you're basing the £1.8m on the above, you're well off.

You still haven't my questions; how much does each regional broadcaster dedicate to sports coverage, and how much control does each regional broadcaster have in allocating their budget?


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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:36 pm

How am I well off? 

BBC Wales pays £4m. It's budget is twice that of BBC NI, so BBC NI should pay half as much. I've called it £1.8m to be kind. 

I have not answered your questions, you're right. Why? They are meaningless questions as what they budget on sports is up to them. Clearly BBC Wales budgets far more than BBC Alba because they spend more.

If you want the rest of the figures, look in the report yourself.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:37 pm

PhilBB wrote:How am I well off? 

BBC Wales pays £4m. It's budget is twice that of BBC NI, so BBC NI should pay half as much. I've called it £1.8m to be kind. 

I have not answered your questions, you're right. Why? They are meaningless questions as what they budget on sports is up to them. Clearly BBC Wales budgets far more than BBC Alba because they spend more.

If you want the rest of the figures, look in the report yourself.

£4 million? Where did you get that figure from?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:39 pm

No NI should pay 1/6th of Wales because it covers 2/3rds of a team as opposed to 4 teams

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:44 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:No NI should pay 1/6th of Wales because it covers 2/3rds of a team as opposed to 4 teams

Well, I can see why we should try and match the 1/4 of the Regions budget, which should work out at around £750k, but Phil's creative accounting figure of £1.8m is entertaining. As is his claim that budgets dedicated to sports don't matter Smile

It will be interesting to find where this £4m figure has come from.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:49 pm

I assume broadcasters make blind bids?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:50 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:How am I well off? 

BBC Wales pays £4m. It's budget is twice that of BBC NI, so BBC NI should pay half as much. I've called it £1.8m to be kind. 

I have not answered your questions, you're right. Why? They are meaningless questions as what they budget on sports is up to them. Clearly BBC Wales budgets far more than BBC Alba because they spend more.

If you want the rest of the figures, look in the report yourself.

£4 million? Where did you get that figure from?

That's what BBC Wales spends on the PrO'12
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:51 pm

Munchkin wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:No NI should pay 1/6th of Wales because it covers 2/3rds of a team as opposed to 4 teams

Well, I can see why we should try and match the 1/4 of the Regions budget, which should work out at around £750k, but Phil's creative accounting figure of £1.8m is entertaining. As is his claim that budgets dedicated to sports don't matter Smile

It will be interesting to find where this £4m figure has come from.

Erm, budgets dedicated to sport are decided by the, erm, particular regional broadcaster. They can change that budget year to year if the product is deemed worthy. That's the beauty of budgets, you see. You can change them.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:52 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:No NI should pay 1/6th of Wales because it covers 2/3rds of a team as opposed to 4 teams

It covers 2/3rds of a team? So nobody outside of Northern Ireland can pick up the signal?
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:53 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:How am I well off? 

BBC Wales pays £4m. It's budget is twice that of BBC NI, so BBC NI should pay half as much. I've called it £1.8m to be kind. 

I have not answered your questions, you're right. Why? They are meaningless questions as what they budget on sports is up to them. Clearly BBC Wales budgets far more than BBC Alba because they spend more.

If you want the rest of the figures, look in the report yourself.

£4 million? Where did you get that figure from?

That's what BBC Wales spends on the PrO'12

Can you back that up?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:57 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:No NI should pay 1/6th of Wales because it covers 2/3rds of a team as opposed to 4 teams

Well, I can see why we should try and match the 1/4 of the Regions budget, which should work out at around £750k, but Phil's creative accounting figure of £1.8m is entertaining. As is his claim that budgets dedicated to sports don't matter Smile

It will be interesting to find where this £4m figure has come from.

Erm, budgets dedicated to sport are decided by the, erm, particular regional broadcaster. They can change that budget year to year if the product is deemed worthy. That's the beauty of budgets, you see. You can change them.

You're completely missing the point. The point is only so much money is available for sports, and how much of that money is available will differ from region to region, as each regional will have different demands to meet.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:59 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:How am I well off? 

BBC Wales pays £4m. It's budget is twice that of BBC NI, so BBC NI should pay half as much. I've called it £1.8m to be kind. 

I have not answered your questions, you're right. Why? They are meaningless questions as what they budget on sports is up to them. Clearly BBC Wales budgets far more than BBC Alba because they spend more.

If you want the rest of the figures, look in the report yourself.

£4 million? Where did you get that figure from?

That's what BBC Wales spends on the PrO'12

Can you back that up?

Doesn't look like it. I may have been £1m out.

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/786278744826806272
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 3:59 pm

Munchkin wrote:

You're completely missing the point. The point is only so much money is available for sports, and how much of that money is available will differ from region to region, as each regional will have different demands to meet.

The money available for sports is flexible. If the product is good enough to meet the demands, more gets spent on it. It's quite simple.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:01 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:How am I well off? 

BBC Wales pays £4m. It's budget is twice that of BBC NI, so BBC NI should pay half as much. I've called it £1.8m to be kind. 

I have not answered your questions, you're right. Why? They are meaningless questions as what they budget on sports is up to them. Clearly BBC Wales budgets far more than BBC Alba because they spend more.

If you want the rest of the figures, look in the report yourself.

£4 million? Where did you get that figure from?

That's what BBC Wales spends on the PrO'12

Can you back that up?

Doesn't look like it. I may have been £1m out.

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/786278744826806272

Laugh come back when you have a credible source and not a click-bate clown posing as a journalist.


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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:03 pm

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:04 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

You're completely missing the point. The point is only so much money is available for sports, and how much of that money is available will differ from region to region, as each regional will have different demands to meet.

The money available for sports is flexible. If the product is good enough to meet the demands, more gets spent on it. It's quite simple.

It's more than just the quality of the product. It's also about the quality of competing products and demand for those products.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:04 pm

How much are BBC NI paying for the privilege to air the majority the Ulster games on a Friday night prime time ?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:05 pm

PhilBB wrote:Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

I take that idiot about as seriously as I take you Smile

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:05 pm

LordDowlais wrote:How much are BBC NI paying for the privilege to air the majority the Ulster games on a Friday night prime time ?

I wish I knew, LD.

Is Friday night a prime time? Most of the young folk are out partying.


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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:06 pm

So if BBC NI pay for 1 team and BBC Wales pay for 4 teams, then Sky should be paying 3 times what BBC Wales pay as they cover all 12 teams right?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:07 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

You're completely missing the point. The point is only so much money is available for sports, and how much of that money is available will differ from region to region, as each regional will have different demands to meet.

The money available for sports is flexible. If the product is good enough to meet the demands, more gets spent on it. It's quite simple.

It's more than just the quality of the product. It's also about the quality of competing products and demand for those products.

Erm, those are subjective statements. Think about it. The quality of competing products is relative.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:07 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

I take that idiot about as seriously as I take you Smile
Yes, and that's why you appear to be so stupid. 

Simon will have his facts bang on. You, on the other hand, clearly don't.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:08 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:So if BBC NI pay for 1 team and  BBC Wales pay for 4 teams, then Sky should be paying 3 times what BBC Wales pay as they cover all 12 teams right?

Amount of games would be a huge factor.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:08 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

I take that idiot about as seriously as I take you Smile
Yes, and that's why you appear to be so stupid. 

Simon will have his facts bang on. You, on the other hand, clearly don't.

laughing

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:08 pm

Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:How much are BBC NI paying for the privilege to air the majority the Ulster games on a Friday night prime time ?

I wish I knew, LD.

Is Friday night a prime time? Most of the young folk are out partying.

I would say 7-7.30pm for about two hours in an evening counts as prime time. It's when most people are at home watching tele. Prime time is usually the highest earning slots.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by marty2086 on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:09 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:How am I well off? 

BBC Wales pays £4m. It's budget is twice that of BBC NI, so BBC NI should pay half as much. I've called it £1.8m to be kind. 

I have not answered your questions, you're right. Why? They are meaningless questions as what they budget on sports is up to them. Clearly BBC Wales budgets far more than BBC Alba because they spend more.

If you want the rest of the figures, look in the report yourself.

£4 million? Where did you get that figure from?

That's what BBC Wales spends on the PrO'12

Can you back that up?

Doesn't look like it. I may have been £1m out.

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/786278744826806272

Laugh come back when you have a credible source and not a click-bate clown posing as a journalist.


Who exactly told him? The regions or the BBC?

Most other journalists seem to say its easier to get blood from a stone than financial details from the BBC

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:10 pm

What other journalists as asking BBC Wales about their TV rugby spend? 

Or what other journalists (are there any) asking the hard questions of Anayi and the Blazer crew?
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:How much are BBC NI paying for the privilege to air the majority the Ulster games on a Friday night prime time ?

I wish I knew, LD.

Is Friday night a prime time? Most of the young folk are out partying.

I would say 7-7.30pm for about two hours in an evening counts as prime time. It's when most people are at home watching tele. Prime time is usually the highest earning slots.

I honestly don't know, LD, but it is a time when many folk go out partying, visiting friends, movies, etc. I would like to see the stats. Maybe have a search later.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:13 pm

It makes me wonder why Ulster only want to play their home games on a Friday evening if they believe the kick off to be such an unsuitable time.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:13 pm

PhilBB wrote:What other journalists as asking BBC Wales about their TV rugby spend? 

Or what other journalists (are there any) asking the hard questions of Anayi and the Blazer crew?

He's a click bate clown. Maybe if he actually came up with credible sources for his fantasies I would listen. He doesn't and I wont.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by RugbyFan100 on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:15 pm

Munchkin wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:So if BBC NI pay for 1 team and  BBC Wales pay for 4 teams, then Sky should be paying 3 times what BBC Wales pay as they cover all 12 teams right?

Amount of games would be a huge factor.

Do BBC Wales show 4 times as many Pro12 games than BBCNI then?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:15 pm

I thought all prime time tv was considered to be between 7pm and 10pm, every day of the week, and even more so on weekends. Headscratch

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:15 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:What other journalists as asking BBC Wales about their TV rugby spend? 

Or what other journalists (are there any) asking the hard questions of Anayi and the Blazer crew?

He's a click bate clown. Maybe if he actually came up with credible sources for his fantasies I would listen. He doesn't and I wont.

Either you're particularly dumb or you've confused him with Andy Howell, who is the click bait clown.

Thomas is the proper journalist (the only one) at Wales Online.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:16 pm

PhilBB wrote:It makes me wonder why Ulster only want to play their home games on a Friday evening if they believe the kick off to be such an unsuitable time.

It isn't good for all, but works well enough for supporters and broadcaster. Ulster supporters don't come close to representing the majority of Ulster folk.

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by marty2086 on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:How much are BBC NI paying for the privilege to air the majority the Ulster games on a Friday night prime time ?

I wish I knew, LD.

Is Friday night a prime time? Most of the young folk are out partying.

I would say 7-7.30pm for about two hours in an evening counts as prime time. It's when most people are at home watching tele. Prime time is usually the highest earning slots.

Its not just about prime time etc, if BBC NI didn't show Ulsters games then no one would as UTV show very little local sport and RTE/TG4/TV3 wont pick it up because their audience is south of the border

BBC NI show very little live sport these days also and have stopped showing most Ulster Championship(GAA) games live and show them on a taped delay later in the day to save money as they are spending less on sport overall

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:17 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:It makes me wonder why Ulster only want to play their home games on a Friday evening if they believe the kick off to be such an unsuitable time.

It isn't good for all, but works well enough for supporters and broadcaster. Ulster supporters don't come close to representing the majority of Ulster folk.

So Friday nights are suitable for the client and the broadcaster. Nothing else matters.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:19 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:What other journalists as asking BBC Wales about their TV rugby spend? 

Or what other journalists (are there any) asking the hard questions of Anayi and the Blazer crew?

He's a click bate clown. Maybe if he actually came up with credible sources for his fantasies I would listen. He doesn't and I wont.

Either you're particularly dumb or you've confused him with Andy Howell, who is the click bait clown.

Thomas is the proper journalist (the only one) at Wales Online.

He's a clown. Belongs with David Icke and his ilk.

The PRO12 is controlled by the lizard people, the head of which runs the IRFU Shocked

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:20 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:It makes me wonder why Ulster only want to play their home games on a Friday evening if they believe the kick off to be such an unsuitable time.

It isn't good for all, but works well enough for supporters and broadcaster. Ulster supporters don't come close to representing the majority of Ulster folk.

So Friday nights are suitable for the client and the broadcaster. Nothing else matters.

You ok, Phil? Smile

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:22 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:What other journalists as asking BBC Wales about their TV rugby spend? 

Or what other journalists (are there any) asking the hard questions of Anayi and the Blazer crew?

He's a click bate clown. Maybe if he actually came up with credible sources for his fantasies I would listen. He doesn't and I wont.

Either you're particularly dumb or you've confused him with Andy Howell, who is the click bait clown.

Thomas is the proper journalist (the only one) at Wales Online.

He's a clown. Belongs with David Icke and his ilk.

The PRO12 is controlled by the lizard people, the head of which runs the IRFU Shocked

You're not reading his work, if you think that it his output.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by PhilBB on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:22 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:It makes me wonder why Ulster only want to play their home games on a Friday evening if they believe the kick off to be such an unsuitable time.

It isn't good for all, but works well enough for supporters and broadcaster. Ulster supporters don't come close to representing the majority of Ulster folk.

So Friday nights are suitable for the client and the broadcaster. Nothing else matters.

You ok, Phil? Smile

Difficult to tell. Wondering why I have again subjected myself to the wall of stupidity that emanates from supporters of IRFU 2 and 3.
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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by LordDowlais on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:23 pm

Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:It makes me wonder why Ulster only want to play their home games on a Friday evening if they believe the kick off to be such an unsuitable time.

It isn't good for all, but works well enough for supporters and broadcaster. Ulster supporters don't come close to representing the majority of Ulster folk.

Yes but shouldn't the price go up for a product that demands a "prime time" slot ?

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Re: The Future for the PRO12 - Part 3 - The Union Balldance

Post by Munchkin on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 4:25 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
PhilBB wrote:What other journalists as asking BBC Wales about their TV rugby spend? 

Or what other journalists (are there any) asking the hard questions of Anayi and the Blazer crew?

He's a click bate clown. Maybe if he actually came up with credible sources for his fantasies I would listen. He doesn't and I wont.

Either you're particularly dumb or you've confused him with Andy Howell, who is the click bait clown.

Thomas is the proper journalist (the only one) at Wales Online.

He's a clown. Belongs with David Icke and his ilk.

The PRO12 is controlled by the lizard people, the head of which runs the IRFU Shocked

You're not reading his work, if you think that it his output.

Oh, I've read him alright. Always good for a chuckle, especially this £5m claim Laugh

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