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Post by superflyweight on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:15 am

Presidential Suites in Moscow. Russian Prostitutes. Golden Showers. Did he have to boil wash the hair piece and is it now too tight for his head?

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Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:24 am

Who you talking about Fly?

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Post by superflyweight on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:27 am

Ronald Frump.

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Post by rick_dagless on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:43 am

Finally lost it supes?

Completely understandable with all the ridiculousness going on.

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Post by superflyweight on Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:59 am

I don't think I've lost it Rick, but it is possible. Well worth checking out stories about Trump on Buzzfeed.

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Post by Scott is Back on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:13 am

You couldnt make this stuff up!! God Bless 'Murica

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Post by dummy_half on Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:33 am

Scott is Back wrote:You couldnt make this stuff up!! God Bless 'Murica

Actually, seems quite likely someone has...

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Post by rick_dagless on Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:07 am

superflyweight wrote:I don't think I've lost it Rick, but it is possible.  Well worth checking out stories about Trump on Buzzfeed.  

Fair enough mate, I will have a gander and hope that it be true...

It's good, though it is not F***ing a dead pig good.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed Jan 11, 2017 1:49 pm

This is getting good. The boys are under so much pressure now that they remember the bits about the 'Russian hacking' that they forgot to tell everyone when they were trying to say Putin wanted Trump to win - no schidt, lads? I wonder why Putin would be for the guy that didn't want to start WW3 with him?

Anyway, this IS getting good. The dirt is coming out. Some folks have been calling for certain dirt to be made common knowledge public for a good few months now. They might finally get their wish.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:45 pm

This is great for conspiracy theorists. You can pick either a) intelligence service making stuff up to discredit Trump or b) President-elect Trump covering up dirty laundry, and you've got a 50/50 chance of being right.

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Post by SecretFly on Wed Jan 11, 2017 3:58 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:This is great for conspiracy theorists. You can pick either a) intelligence service making stuff up to discredit Trump or b) President-elect Trump covering up dirty laundry, and you've got a 50/50 chance of being right.

OR....a) wikileaks making up stuff to discredit Hillary + others in her retinue and pals or b) Clintons, retinue, Obama and pals covering up dirty laundry by setting intelligence services on Trump.

Well ol' Chuck Schumer seems to have pointed out which of those two it is.

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Post by Guest on Wed Jan 11, 2017 6:40 pm

I don't like Trump, but who really cares about his kinks? It's not as if he would be the first President to indulge in a bit of extramarital relations, and certainly not the only kinky one. Clinton was re-elected even after having a rather unusual cigar wrapping.

My only concern is how Trump does his job, and that's a big concern.

Not that I believe this story to be true....

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:56 am

Munchkin wrote:I don't like Trump, but who really cares about his kinks? It's not as if he would be the first President to indulge in a bit of extramarital relations, and certainly not the only kinky one. Clinton was re-elected even after having a rather unusual cigar wrapping.

My only concern is how Trump does his job, and that's a big concern.

Not that I believe this story to be true....

No issue with his kinks. All pretty harmless. The issue is the US President, who already looks like a little bitch of the Ruskies, now reportedly is easily capable of blackmailing if the dossier contents are true.

Blackmail is the issue. Not kinks & perversions.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:22 am

Agreed, although even without the showers, there's more besides the alleged blackmail i.e. payments from Russia to the Trump campaign etc.
I'm not sure we should all ignore the kinks - tends to marry up quite well with his comments re. grabbing bits of women's anatomy's. What a start to a Presidency - the man's horrendous.
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:33 am

For all we know, Obama really likes hard anal - giving and receiving, maybe a bit of light BDSM, he's just kept it private as it is no relevance or public matter.

It's not like it crosses with any of his election pledges or anything, really don't see the issue with it.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 12:48 pm

Oh come on guys...you all pretend to be so innocent. You only hear about the 'kinks' when hearing about them from the Guardian, BBC, Sky or CNN?

There have been plenty of 'kinks' talked about through the end stages of this election and after it - and some of them wouldn't just land you with a flushed face of embarrassment, some have the potential - if substantiated - to pop people into prison and send reverberations around the world.

Stop pretending nobody knows nothing unless it pops up on the 1 O'clock news. OK

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:52 pm

Yeh, f*ck credible news reporting, let's trust tinfoilhat.com for our news!!

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:05 pm

The 'Kink' accusations have been out there Top. And you know all about them. Wink
Thus why a nice senator warned Trump not to get into a fight with the intelligence agencies as they have their ways of getting back in many ways. Hmmm, nice veiled threat from people that don't like the nature of the accusations still doing the rounds and probably about to intensify after Trump is elected.

You see the dilemma is that the intelligence agencies want Trump to accept that Russia hacked files and folders and all kinds of stuff...............

Yeah? So all this stuff that is being talked about under the 'child-friendly', before-the-watershed code language of 'Fake News' is actually quite real? Everyone that has been following this from the beginning know what is being directly referred to whenever the 'Fake News' headings pop up.

If it's just Breitbart guff, then it's not a hacking issue. You don't usually hack stuff that you yourself invented whilst wearing the tin-foil hat.
So, Trump and the people in his admin who are quite into this behind the scenes tin-foil hat stuff, are being told directly by the Intelligence agencies that it's all true but that the bad Ruskies exposed it and therefore it's bold to publish it.

Yeah? Nice of them to let the Trump people know it's all above board real info. Now on with the investigations.


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:14 pm

SecretFly wrote:The 'Kink' accusations have been out there Top.  And you know all about them. Wink

I genuinely don't. Please do tell what tinfoilhat.com has had to say on the matter(s)...

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:33 pm

Trump says it's fake news. That's good enough for me. I trust him implicitly.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:55 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Trump says it's fake news. That's good enough for me. I trust him implicitly.
Yep. Move along. Nothing to see hear...
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Post by Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:10 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I don't like Trump, but who really cares about his kinks? It's not as if he would be the first President to indulge in a bit of extramarital relations, and certainly not the only kinky one. Clinton was re-elected even after having a rather unusual cigar wrapping.

My only concern is how Trump does his job, and that's a big concern.

Not that I believe this story to be true....

No issue with his kinks. All pretty harmless. The issue is the US President, who already looks like a little bitch of the Ruskies, now reportedly is easily capable of blackmailing if the dossier contents are true.

Blackmail is the issue. Not kinks & perversions.

I know the blackmailing allegations, but my point is more that this little kinky episode (if true) isn't that threatening a blackmail threat. Even if the document is true, there's no evidence in that document, at least none that I can see, that blackmail was used, or threatened.

With my tinfoil hat firmly in place, this document could be the invention of Russian disinformation, with the intended victims being the West's intelligence agencies, and Trumps Republican and Democrat opponents (apparently the latter two jointly funded this research .....). The reward for the Russians is that the schism within the Republican Party is widened, relations between the Republicans and Democrats deteriorated, as is trust in the intelligence agencies. Basically, chaos in Washington.

On a side note; isn't it odd that Putin rants about the loss of Christian values in the West, and just before all this is revealed?

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Post by navyblueshorts on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:26 pm

Maybe. You can bet your bottom $ though, that absolutely everyone is looking for a smoking gun.

Re. Putin and "Christian values", there aren't many more laughably inappropriate people to bemoan the loss of such in "the West".
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Post by Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:41 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:Maybe. You can bet your bottom $ though, that absolutely everyone is looking for a smoking gun.

Re. Putin and "Christian values", there aren't many more laughably inappropriate people to bemoan the loss of such in "the West".


At the point it's impossible to know who holds the smoking gun. There's a few possibilities, and any one of them is equally possible.

I didn't miss the irony on Putin's statement either. It just makes me question all the more, why did he make it?

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 4:48 pm

Why would you trust the Intelligence agencies - even without the Russians telling you what the Intelligence agencies were trying to effectively cover up?

WMDs as only one example?  Who was behind that fairytale?  Trust them?  Trust them with what?  The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Their whole reason for being - all of them, from MI6 to CIA to Mossad etc etc - is to be secretive, deceptive, duplicitous and have a few thousand people in all walks of life - in ALL walks of life, working for them and spreading their propaganda to serve the interests of the bosses they work for.

Now all we have to decide is who these organisations that seem to have carte-blanche on constructing 'Fake' News and operating very clandestine programmes, genuinely work for?  Elected governments?  Or unelected cabals?  Tough one to find a solution to given the very idea of cloaked Intelligence agencies protecting their activities from the eyes of the public.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:05 pm

I don't think it's possible that all three agencies (US, Russian and London) are all innocent. One is lying. If the Russian agency did record Trump indulging in watersports, then Russia isn't being honest when they deny it. If it never happened; then Russia could be guilty of disinformation. It's also possible that the London based agency made the whole thing up, but that seems highly unlikely. What is likely is that the leaking of this document was political, and that could be the work of Trumps political opponents or the US intelligence agency.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:37 pm

Munchkin wrote:I don't think it's possible that all three agencies (US, Russian and London) are all innocent. One is lying. If the Russian agency did record Trump indulging in watersports, then Russia isn't being honest when they deny it. If it never happened; then Russia could be guilty of disinformation. It's also possible that the London based agency made the whole thing up, but that seems highly unlikely. What is likely is that the leaking of this document was political, and that could be the work of Trumps political opponents or the US intelligence agency.

The Russian intelligence love a good disinformation campaign too.  They're all at it.  There is nobody to trust.  It's their modus operandi to seek out intelligence on the 'enemy' - and 'friend' as Merkel's anger a while back attests to Whistle - and also to run disinformation campaigns to damage 'enemies'.... and 'friends'.  There is no moral highground in these battles.  

But there is a Truth there somewhere that the intelligence games try to cloud out and disguise.   So there is always a certain truth to pick from the stuff that's provided by the Intel services.

But given that episode I mentioned regarding Merkel and her supposed allies who were spying on her (em, behind her back, like all good intelligence agencies) it's a bit of a laugh that American intelligence is angry that Russians were actively plotting for Trump when they themselves use info from another foreign intelligence agency (British) - and no I never buy that these former spies ever 'retire' - to then try to damage Trump.  So British intelligence was in the Clinton camp, assisting the Democrats in digging up dirt on Trump?

Hypocrisy all round.  Everyone take a bow.  But meanwhile, there is still obvious truths lying about that a genuinely investigative unbiased media should be trying to unearth.  And pigs will fly. Whistle

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:57 pm

If they're that obvious, you should be able to do it yourself. In fact, if they are that obvious then they are already out there and everyone will know about them. And you're assuming that all media is biased in the same way.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:I don't think it's possible that all three agencies (US, Russian and London) are all innocent. One is lying. If the Russian agency did record Trump indulging in watersports, then Russia isn't being honest when they deny it. If it never happened; then Russia could be guilty of disinformation. It's also possible that the London based agency made the whole thing up, but that seems highly unlikely. What is likely is that the leaking of this document was political, and that could be the work of Trumps political opponents or the US intelligence agency.

The Russian intelligence love a good disinformation campaign too.  They're all at it.  There is nobody to trust.  It's their modus operandi to seek out intelligence on the 'enemy' - and 'friend' as Merkel's anger a while back attests to Whistle - and also to run disinformation campaigns to damage 'enemies'.... and 'friends'.  There is no moral highground in these battles.  

But there is a Truth there somewhere that the intelligence games try to cloud out and disguise.   So there is always a certain truth to pick from the stuff that's provided by the Intel services.

But given that episode I mentioned regarding Merkel and her supposed allies who were spying on her (em, behind her back, like all good intelligence agencies) it's a bit of a laugh that American intelligence is angry that Russians were actively plotting for Trump when they themselves use info from another foreign intelligence agency (British) - and no I never buy that these former spies ever 'retire' - to then try to damage Trump.  So British intelligence was in the Clinton camp, assisting the Democrats in digging up dirt on Trump?

Hypocrisy all round.  Everyone take a bow.  But meanwhile, there is still obvious truths lying about that a genuinely investigative unbiased media should be trying to unearth.  And pigs will fly. Whistle

They all spy on each other, including the Germans.

Well, the US can't really complain about Russia wanting to influence the election, when they do the same in other nations. Obama sent the team that worked on his election, to influence the last Israeli election against Netanyahu.

We can't say that British intelligence was involved, because Steele was freelance, even if an ex MI6 agent. Sure, he will work for British intelligence, but will also do work independent from them.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:43 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:If they're that obvious, you should be able to do it yourself. In fact, if they are that obvious then they are already out there and everyone will know about them. And you're assuming that all media is biased in the same way.

I'm assuming that the British Intelligence Agency/agencies were apparently in a camp.  
I'm assuming they are an outside foreign intelligence community that were asked by the US Democrats to dig up dirt on Trump - that is how the information was initially 'allegedly' brought into the arena some weeks or months ago.
I'm assuming Trump's bosom buddy, Whistle  McCain, was wanting to get his hands on such info to be able to warn his very good friend Trump that the Russians have dirt on him.  Cool
I'm assuming the Russians were on the other side of the coin.  A foreign intelligence agency wanting to assist the guy that said he didn't want to go to war with them.
I'm assuming the American Intelligence network are only making a big deal about ONE of the foreign intelligence agencies being involved in/trying to influence the domestic election processes of the USA.

Now you make your own judgements on what other intelligence agencies might have been involved in that American election (from China to Israel) and make your own judgements on the media and where any bias might be.  I've made my own judgements on that score.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:48 pm

Munchkin wrote:

We can't say that British intelligence was involved, because Steele was freelance, even if an ex MI6 agent. Sure, he will work for British intelligence, but will also do work independent from them.

I agree with it all except my belief that these ex-guys ever really leave such organisations, Munch. I know if I was in those circles and knew a guy who supposedly was no longer working for any of these agencies.... I'd never let my guard down or remotely believe him.
In any case, the American agencies can't very well say they've gotten their Trump dirt stuff from the British whilst denigrating the Russians interfering in the domestic affairs of the US. So they have their 'privateer' sources...who just happen to be ex Mi6. Neat.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:If they're that obvious, you should be able to do it yourself. In fact, if they are that obvious then they are already out there and everyone will know about them. And you're assuming that all media is biased in the same way.

I'm assuming that the British Intelligence Agency/agencies were apparently in a camp.  
I'm assuming they are an outside foreign intelligence community that were asked by the US Democrats to dig up dirt on Trump - that is how the information was initially 'allegedly' brought into the arena some weeks or months ago.
I'm assuming Trump's bosom buddy, Whistle  McCain, was wanting to get his hands on such info to be able to warn his very good friend Trump that the Russians have dirt on him.  Cool
I'm assuming the Russians were on the other side of the coin.  A foreign intelligence agency wanting to assist the guy that said he didn't want to go to war with them.
I'm assuming the American Intelligence network are only making a big deal about ONE of the foreign intelligence agencies being involved in/trying to influence the domestic election processes of the USA.

Now you make your own judgements on what other intelligence agencies might have been involved in that American election (from China to Israel) and make your own judgements on the media and where any bias might be.  I've made my own judgements on that score.

From what you said before, you're assuming that there are obvious truths out there that no-one in the media wants to reveal. I'm simply saying that it is unlikely that there isn't a single media outlet that wants to reveal them, whatever they may be.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:51 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:If they're that obvious, you should be able to do it yourself. In fact, if they are that obvious then they are already out there and everyone will know about them. And you're assuming that all media is biased in the same way.

I'm assuming that the British Intelligence Agency/agencies were apparently in a camp.  
I'm assuming they are an outside foreign intelligence community that were asked by the US Democrats to dig up dirt on Trump - that is how the information was initially 'allegedly' brought into the arena some weeks or months ago.
I'm assuming Trump's bosom buddy, Whistle  McCain, was wanting to get his hands on such info to be able to warn his very good friend Trump that the Russians have dirt on him.  Cool
I'm assuming the Russians were on the other side of the coin.  A foreign intelligence agency wanting to assist the guy that said he didn't want to go to war with them.
I'm assuming the American Intelligence network are only making a big deal about ONE of the foreign intelligence agencies being involved in/trying to influence the domestic election processes of the USA.

Now you make your own judgements on what other intelligence agencies might have been involved in that American election (from China to Israel) and make your own judgements on the media and where any bias might be.  I've made my own judgements on that score.

From what you said before, you're assuming that there are obvious truths out there that no-one in the media wants to reveal. I'm simply saying that it is unlikely that there isn't a single media outlet that wants to reveal them, whatever they may be.

Firstly... I am not saying I know what truths are out there -although I'm very familiar with the detail of the accusations.
I am saying my premise is that when a group of people have a fight, and when they all try to blame each other about something, and when they all try to counter-attack and counter-charge the other with wrong doing... it's a good bet that in amongst all that smoke there is indeed a wrong doing that is being covered up in the confusion.

The 'OBVIOUS' bit is the Probability that there is a truth there somewhere.  I believe there is always a truth in there.  So I say, it's obvious there is a truth to be outed, IF the investigative channels of the media do their job, without bias.  Either Trump actually did have his wet time in Russia or there is a very good reason why the agencies want to pin that on him.  

There have already been serious sexual accusations made during the course of this campaign.  Serious ones.  You may or may not know about those as the more mainstream media (print and TV) HAVE avoided detailing the accusations.  Most people who only watch or read conventional media only know about it through the code 'Fake News'.  But the concept of 'Fake News' has actual detail around it.  
So I query why the unfounded accusations about Trump get detailed across the mainstream media and here (we all know it's golden showers and something about it being a bed Obama slept in)whilst the initial accusations, that created the very concept of 'Fake News' itself, have been mostly hushed up and avoided by the mainstream media sources.  
Fake News?  What Fake News.  Detail it for us.  Get into the nitty gritty.  And when you've (mainstream media) detailed it for us, tell us why it's Fake.  Tell us how it could be decided to be Fake by mere journalists without a sliver of an investigation, court case, jury selection or finding.  
The term in good Journalism is UNSUBTANTIATED not 'Fake'.  To lazily repeat the line 'Fake' without first doing the investigative work is simply bad/cynical journalism.

So...here we are.  Accusations of a sexual nature directed at Trump - suggestions that such an event, if true, has the potential to compromise him in his dealings with Russia.  But there are also other accusations of a sexual nature in the arena, whether Sky, BBC, CNN or others want to ignore them or not, they are there.

The truth is somewhere there too.  It's for honest journalists of integrity to do their job now and chase the truth down without bias to either side or either tale.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:01 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

We can't say that British intelligence was involved, because Steele was freelance, even if an ex MI6 agent. Sure, he will work for British intelligence, but will also do work independent from them.

I agree with it all except my belief that these ex-guys ever really leave such organisations, Munch.  I know if I was in those circles and knew a guy who supposedly was no longer working for any of these agencies.... I'd never let my guard down or remotely believe him.
In any case, the American agencies can't very well say they've gotten their Trump dirt stuff from the British whilst denigrating the Russians interfering in the domestic affairs of the US.  So they have their 'privateer' sources...who just happen to be ex Mi6.  Neat.

Steele was already on the radar of US agencies. Previously, the FBI employed Steele to get inside information on FIFA corruption.

What I imagine happened is that the FBI contacted Steele, while informing British intelligence of their intention. Steele also informs British intelligence, who then give him the green light. Steele completes the dossier and gives it to British intelligence to approve for release. I would think that's fairly standard for anyone, regardless if civil servant or private, working with this level of intelligence within the UK, or any Western nation, in general.

I get your point that Steele being a private contractor is convenient, and there may be some truth in that, but more facts are required to make that case, methinks. Facts that may be forthcoming if an investigation is called: Government-Inquiry?

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:06 pm

I don't know of the other accusations - I suspect the difference is that they were not in an intelligence dossier presented to, and discussed at, the highest levels of government. Buzzfeed reported them (rightly or wrongly) because of that dossier i.e. it was the existence of the dossier and its discussion in government that legitimized the news story, in Buzzfeed's opinion.
Other media outlets e.g. the BBC, knew all about it, but chose not to report it (until after Buzzfeed) because it was unsubstantiated. Once it's out there on one media site , however, that all changes.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:20 pm

Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

We can't say that British intelligence was involved, because Steele was freelance, even if an ex MI6 agent. Sure, he will work for British intelligence, but will also do work independent from them.

I agree with it all except my belief that these ex-guys ever really leave such organisations, Munch.  I know if I was in those circles and knew a guy who supposedly was no longer working for any of these agencies.... I'd never let my guard down or remotely believe him.
In any case, the American agencies can't very well say they've gotten their Trump dirt stuff from the British whilst denigrating the Russians interfering in the domestic affairs of the US.  So they have their 'privateer' sources...who just happen to be ex Mi6.  Neat.

Steele was already on the radar of US agencies. Previously, the FBI employed Steele to get inside information on FIFA corruption.

What I imagine happened is that the FBI contacted Steele, while informing British intelligence of their intention. Steele also informs British intelligence, who then give him the green light. Steele completes the dossier and gives it to British intelligence to approve for release. I would think that's fairly standard for anyone, regardless if civil servant or private, working with this level of intelligence within the UK, or any Western nation, in general.

I get your point that Steele being a private contractor is convenient, and there may be some truth in that, but more facts are required to make that case, methinks. Facts that may be forthcoming if an investigation is called: Government-Inquiry?

Well it'll all be interesting, Munch.  Like I've been saying, this is some momentous time we're living in politically and I'm not sure most people really appreciate it.  I sense it's a 'where-were-you-in-that-period' time. It's been a long time since I've felt so energised by the world and its convoluted turnings.
I'm fascinated by it all, I'm anxious about it all - I've dropped rugby very much into the background of my attentions because of it.  My instincts feel something big is just around the corner -and hopefully not war! Cool - no, something more..., well, I don't know how to articulate it, which is unusual for me!

There is a pressure cooker feel - nobody seems to be able to stop it.  Regardless of all the tricks to keep going like it's just another year of nothing special, the temperature keeps rising.  Like I say, I'm praying it's not a war but also conscious that many people have had enough of the slick systems of government control, ultra deniability for just about everything, and the covering up of the more lurid behaviours of the people we elect to lead us and then the people they employ to help them.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:30 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:I don't know of the other accusations - I suspect the difference is that they were not in an intelligence dossier presented to, and discussed at, the highest levels of government. Buzzfeed reported them (rightly or wrongly) because of that dossier i.e. it was the existence of the dossier and its discussion in government that legitimized the news story, in Buzzfeed's opinion.
Other media outlets e.g. the BBC, knew all about it, but chose not to report it (until after Buzzfeed) because it was unsubstantiated. Once it's out there on one media site , however, that all changes.

But you've heard them all mention 'Fake News'?  You know the origins of the title?  Do you know why Trump uses it so sneeringly?  He didn't create it.  He's throwing it back in their faces.  They did.  The CNNs of this world created it.  Don't you ask why they say it so often and yet seldom say what any of it is in detail or why it's 'Fake'?  You know it has to do with quite substantial amounts of detail and digital records that creates quite a persuasive argument for at the very least a genuine police investigation?

To tell the truth I am genuinely shocked that, if you're being honest, you have no idea of any other accusations of a sexual nature going in and around the American Election of last year.  I apologise for thinking you were all just playing the 'ignore it' game.  But that's the thing that scares me.  Here you are, an intelligent guy, in a modern Nation, and you've not been made even casually aware of anything of that nature being a talking point in America?  Even the Pope made a comment on it.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:45 pm

I didn't go searching for it - I wasn't that interested. I don't pay any attention to the Pope. There was stuff about Bill, if that's what you mean, but I didn't hear anything about Hillary.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:46 pm

Or do you mean Pizzagate? That really was fake - some guy made it up, from what I read.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:56 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:Or do you mean Pizzagate? That really was fake - some guy made it up, from what I read.

Laugh Where did you read that? Guardian? CNN? New York Times? Washington Post? There's nothing fake about the documentary evidence that suggests there are/some very weird people circling the Clinton camp. Have the courage of your own conviction and go look-see for yourself.... but you might want a sick bag for some of it.




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Post by Fernando on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:00 pm

Who cares if the guy like watching people p*ssing or being p*ssed on im sure half the people here probably watch weirder sh*t on Pornhub Laugh

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:05 pm

I looked at the reputable evidence, not the made up stuff. Problem is, some people want to believe the made up stuff and thus have a closed mind about it.

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Post by Fernando on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:09 pm

Just be stupid and ignorant and you'll feel better Cool

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:22 pm

Just live in fairyland and believe in elves and you'll feel better Smile

Edit - not aimed at you Fernando.

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Post by Galted on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:26 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:I didn't go searching for it - I wasn't that interested. I don't pay any attention to the Pope. There was stuff about Bill, if that's what you mean, but I didn't hear anything about Hillary.

Is it just me or is that post offensive?
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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:31 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:I looked at the reputable evidence, not the made up stuff. Problem is, some people want to believe the made up stuff and thus have a closed mind about it.

Reputable evidence is the stuff the American Intelligence agency are saying the Russians hacked................ thus good evidence..... thus the stuff that unwraps a few Clinton weirdos that have more circumstantial evidence right now against them than anything thrown Trump's way yet on the Russian stuff. The reputable evidence is what I'm talking about. If someone wants to believe there are also Aliens and devils involved that's their look out, but any made-up reality doesn't just burn away the reputable evidence that some people need investigating. That's still there.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:33 pm

Galted wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:I didn't go searching for it - I wasn't that interested. I don't pay any attention to the Pope. There was stuff about Bill, if that's what you mean, but I didn't hear anything about Hillary.

Is it just me or is that post offensive?

Laugh

We have the joker who filmed Trump! Pity the pee on the lens obscured Trump's face! Ha! Ha! Nice try Julius but next time try filming from a higher angle, and from behind the action.

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:43 pm

SecretFly wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:I looked at the reputable evidence, not the made up stuff. Problem is, some people want to believe the made up stuff and thus have a closed mind about it.

Reputable evidence is the stuff the American Intelligence agency are saying the Russians hacked................ thus good evidence..... thus the stuff that unwraps a few Clinton weirdos that have more circumstantial evidence right now against them than anything thrown Trump's way yet on the Russian stuff.  The reputable evidence is what I'm talking about.  If someone wants to believe there are also Aliens and devils involved that's their look out, but any made-up reality doesn't just burn away the reputable evidence that some people need investigating.  That's still there.

I wasn't aware of any Pizzagate evidence (i.e. evidence against people, rather than clearing them) compiled by any intelligence agency, or police force. Maybe I missed it.

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Post by SecretFly on Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:04 pm

Where's the evidence that clears them? Which police force did the investigation? Where's the report? I'd like to read it.

More circumstantial evidence that things aren't right and need to be investigated than right now is in the ball park about Trump, Julius. That's just undeniable.

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Post by Guest on Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:28 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:

We can't say that British intelligence was involved, because Steele was freelance, even if an ex MI6 agent. Sure, he will work for British intelligence, but will also do work independent from them.

I agree with it all except my belief that these ex-guys ever really leave such organisations, Munch.  I know if I was in those circles and knew a guy who supposedly was no longer working for any of these agencies.... I'd never let my guard down or remotely believe him.
In any case, the American agencies can't very well say they've gotten their Trump dirt stuff from the British whilst denigrating the Russians interfering in the domestic affairs of the US.  So they have their 'privateer' sources...who just happen to be ex Mi6.  Neat.

Steele was already on the radar of US agencies. Previously, the FBI employed Steele to get inside information on FIFA corruption.

What I imagine happened is that the FBI contacted Steele, while informing British intelligence of their intention. Steele also informs British intelligence, who then give him the green light. Steele completes the dossier and gives it to British intelligence to approve for release. I would think that's fairly standard for anyone, regardless if civil servant or private, working with this level of intelligence within the UK, or any Western nation, in general.

I get your point that Steele being a private contractor is convenient, and there may be some truth in that, but more facts are required to make that case, methinks. Facts that may be forthcoming if an investigation is called: Government-Inquiry?

Well it'll all be interesting, Munch.  Like I've been saying, this is some momentous time we're living in politically and I'm not sure most people really appreciate it.  I sense it's  a 'where-were-you-in-that-period' time.  It's been a long time since I've felt so energised by the world and its convoluted turnings.
I'm fascinated by it all, I'm anxious about it all - I've dropped rugby very much into the background of my attentions because of it.  My instincts feel something big is just around the corner -and hopefully not war! Cool  - no, something more..., well, I don't know how to articulate it, which is unusual for me!

There is a pressure cooker feel - nobody seems to be able to stop it.  Regardless of all the tricks to keep going like it's just another year of nothing special, the temperature keeps rising.  Like I say, I'm praying it's not a war but also conscious that many people have had enough of the slick systems of government control, ultra deniability for just about everything, and the covering up of the more lurid behaviours of the people we elect to lead us and then the people they employ to help them.

It's fascinating. There's so many bad things all happening at once, and all the main players are placing themselves for attack, as on a chessboard. There is a real tension, and the feeling is that somethings got to give. Doubt it will lead to war, but really can't rule it out either.


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