Aus coming to India

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Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan on Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:26 am

First topic message reminder :

Australia squad Steven Smith (capt), David Warner, Matt Renshaw, Usman Khawaja, Shaun Marsh, Peter Handscomb, Glenn Maxwell, Matthew Wade (wk), Mitchell Marsh, Ashton Agar, Steve O'Keefe, Mitchell Starc, Mitchell Swepson, Josh Hazlewood, Jackson Bird, Nathan Lyon

Aus has declared their squad and they have 4 spinners + Maxwell who can bowl spin....and smith too can


and only 3 seamers in the squad....implies they will play 2 seamers and 3 spinners

india should produces pitches like they did vs NZ and SA.....krumblers and not the types they did vs Eng
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by guildfordbat on Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:53 pm

Regulars will know I'm never keen on using a nightwatchman. Especially so today. Lyon's wicket a predictable gift to get India's tails up even further.

Great resolve shown by Australia for so much of this Test but they now threaten 'to do an England' in line with KP_f's forecasts.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by msp83 on Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:24 am

A fine day for India. Cheteshwar Pujara with his 3rd double ton in test cricket, his 2nd against the Australians. Wriddhiman Saha, not my most favorite player in this Indian lineup, playing a mighty fine hand, the best of his 3 test tons so far to safeguard his position for some time to come, and saving India from a potentially difficult situation. And Ravindra Jadeja providing some entertainment with the bat before toying with the mindset of the Australian batsmen and taking out 2 of them in the mini session before stumps. He has taken 7 wickets in the game so far, scored a 50, and effected a run-out. On this road, his contribution with the ball is as valuable as that Pujara double if not more.
But he will still have to finish the job tomorrow. By the look of things, India would be most dependent on him. Ashwin hasn't looked anywhere near his best. Nobody expects anything anyways from Ishant Sharma other than to keep things quiet if and when he gets a ball. Umesh might get some valuable reverse swing on this track.
When bowling to the left-handers, Jadeja has some rough to work with and he's usually outstanding as far as targeting and hitting the same spot ball after ball is concerned. And this Australian lineup has got a few who bat left handed. But otherwise, there is absolutely nothing on this road of a track. And even if it burst into life on day 5 which it might do some time tomorrow, I would any day rate it a much poorer pitch than those for the first 2 games. Even Umesh Yadav looked good for a ton with the bat!

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by guildfordbat on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:15 pm

Where's everyone? Still intriguingly poised although the draw once more the favourite in my book. Australia 134/4 off 61 overs, trailing by 18 with 36 overs left.

Handscomb and Marsh playing well, keeping their heads and their wickets. Looks like Australia will bat beyond the 70 overs forecast by KP_f.

Jadeja with his third wicket today and seeming a handful but Ashwin not fully on the money and now replaced by Ishant.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by guildfordbat on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:25 pm

Interesting snippet on Sky a short while ago in praise of the wicket and the curator.

On each of the first four 4 days, less than 300 runs were scored and no more than 7 wickets taken. Strongly suggesting both batsmen and bowlers had to work hard for their rewards. That's how it should be and why I've enjoyed the bits of this Test I've seen.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:43 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Interesting snippet on Sky a short while ago in praise of the wicket and the curator.

On each of the first four 4 days, less than 300 runs were scored and no more than 7 wickets taken. Strongly suggesting both batsmen and bowlers had to work hard for their rewards. That's how it should be and why I've enjoyed the bits of this Test I've seen.

Really? It's been boring as heck - dull slow low pitch, nothing in it for batsmen and barely anything for bowlers. Even on day 5. Rubbish
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by guildfordbat on Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:58 pm

Saw you said that the other day, Olly, but totally disagree. However, as our man says, ''It's a game of opinions, sir.''

For me, it's been a close contest until India India went into the ascendancy yesterday and always tightly fought. A Test player shouldn't expect a 50 and/or a couple of wickets just for turning up. Neither should the spectators and viewers.


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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:24 pm

guildfordbat wrote:Saw you said that the other day, Olly, but totally disagree. However, as our man says, ''It's a game of opinions, sir.''

For me, it's been a close contest until India India went into the ascendancy yesterday and always tightly fought. A Test player shouldn't expect a 50 and/or a couple of wickets just for turning up. Neither should the spectators and viewers.


Not saying that at all - but for me 1200 odd runs in over 400 overs (average run rate of less than 3 an over), with only 23 wickets going down isn't a good pitch for test cricket and not an entertaining game. We're into the last session on day 5, and it's still doing nothing to not a lot for two of the best spinners in the world. Just dull

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by Gooseberry on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:36 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Saw you said that the other day, Olly, but totally disagree. However, as our man says, ''It's a game of opinions, sir.''

For me, it's been a close contest until India India went into the ascendancy yesterday and always tightly fought. A Test player shouldn't expect a 50 and/or a couple of wickets just for turning up. Neither should the spectators and viewers.


Not saying that at all - but for me 1200 odd runs in over 400 overs (average run rate of less than 3 an over), with only 23 wickets going down isn't a good pitch for test cricket and not an entertaining game. We're into the last session on day 5, and it's still doing nothing to not a lot for two of the best spinners in the world. Just dull


It depends how you look at it. Runs havent been easy to come by, players who have applied themselves have been able to stay in but most have fallen cheaply. Its maybe not the thrilling extended T20 3 dayer lottery theyve had in the prioir tests but its also not been a 800 runs in the first two days followed by 20 wickets in the third type pitch which is entirely decided by who gets to bat first.

I guess you could say its good for the purists and a proper test match pitch, but not good for those who like roller coaster drama, blazing 50s and bowlers taking 5 fer in a session. . One for the coaches rather than the TV audience. Patience, shot selection and good technique have been rewarded. As have accuracy and quality.

They do need to find a happy medium with the pitches though, it seems to be one extreme or the other.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by guildfordbat on Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:48 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Saw you said that the other day, Olly, but totally disagree. However, as our man says, ''It's a game of opinions, sir.''

For me, it's been a close contest until India India went into the ascendancy yesterday and always tightly fought. A Test player shouldn't expect a 50 and/or a couple of wickets just for turning up. Neither should the spectators and viewers.


Not saying that at all - but for me 1200 odd runs in over 400 overs (average run rate of less than 3 an over), with only 23 wickets going down isn't a good pitch for test cricket and not an entertaining game. We're into the last session on day 5, and it's still doing nothing to not a lot for two of the best spinners in the world. Just dull


It depends how you look at it. Runs havent been easy to come by, players who have applied themselves have been able to stay in but most have fallen cheaply. Its maybe not the thrilling extended T20 3 dayer lottery theyve had in the prioir tests but its also not been a 800 runs in the first two days followed by 20 wickets in the third type pitch which is entirely decided by who gets to bat first.

I guess you could say its good for the purists and a proper test match pitch, but not good for those who like roller coaster drama, blazing 50s and bowlers taking 5 fer in a session. . One for the coaches rather than the TV audience. Patience, shot selection and good technique have been rewarded. As have accuracy and quality.

They do need to find a happy medium with the pitches though, it seems to be one extreme or the other.

Those virtues don't of cause exclude the entire tv audience.

Anyway, I have to go out now (no, not an appointment to watch paint dry Wink ) but Australia seem to have achieved the draw barring something sensational very late on. Excellent effort from Handscomb and Marsh. Not just their shot selection but their mental concentration. An example that I hope England have taken notice of.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by alfie on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:02 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Saw you said that the other day, Olly, but totally disagree. However, as our man says, ''It's a game of opinions, sir.''

For me, it's been a close contest until India India went into the ascendancy yesterday and always tightly fought. A Test player shouldn't expect a 50 and/or a couple of wickets just for turning up. Neither should the spectators and viewers.


Not saying that at all -but for me 1200 odd runs in over 400 overs (average run rate of less than 3 an over), with only 23 wickets going down isn't a good pitch for test cricket and not an entertaining game. We're into the last session on day 5, and it's still doing nothing to not a lot for two of the best spinners in the world. Just dull


Just as well you weren't around in the sixties , Olly Smile

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by alfie on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:09 pm

So the draw I'd fancied from about tea on day one finally eventuates...

A few alarms raised when India took a brace of wickets last night and again this morning - but Handscomb and S Marsh really showed how to bat for a draw ; admirable effort of concentration clap

Decider next week : might come down to who is less tired ! India have had a long home season and some of them (looking at you , Ashwin ) are showing it ; and Australia's bowlers will be fervently praying Smith doesn't lose the toss ... Even so I wonder if Cummins can back up ?

Wouldn't want the last pitch to be quite this flat ; but neither do I want to see another minefield as it makes it too much of a raffle. Hope we get a good strip for a fitting conclusion to an interesting series.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:10 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:Saw you said that the other day, Olly, but totally disagree. However, as our man says, ''It's a game of opinions, sir.''

For me, it's been a close contest until India India went into the ascendancy yesterday and always tightly fought. A Test player shouldn't expect a 50 and/or a couple of wickets just for turning up. Neither should the spectators and viewers.


Not saying that at all -but for me 1200 odd runs in over 400 overs (average run rate of less than 3 an over), with only 23 wickets going down isn't a good pitch for test cricket and not an entertaining game. We're into the last session on day 5, and it's still doing nothing to not a lot for two of the best spinners in the world. Just dull


Just as well you weren't around in the sixties , Olly Smile

There's a lot of things in the world I wouldn't have liked in the sixties haha!

Sorry but for me only being halfway through the third innings at the end of day five isn't what test cricket needs from its pitches to survive. Result wickets are what's required
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by Gooseberry on Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:36 pm

Ishant Sharma as a front 4 bowlers isn't what's required if test cricket is going to be taken seriously.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan on Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:42 pm

So Australia survive....they live to fight in seaming and cool Dharamsala and can still win the series.....
why they escaped...

1) Ashwin is tired.....12 tests in a row.....bowling in both innings of all these tests.....it's evident he does not have the shoulder and muscles of Jadeja....is a shadow...and the last two tests have been with just 4 bowlers and 2 spinners.
India sorely missed Jayant also.

It's not a good idea to have such a long season and two tough teams Eng and Aus coming back to back....physically and mentally draining...

2) India was a session short of enforcing a win......and another way of looking at it is if their innings RR was 0.5RPO more they would have gotten a session...

3) Pitch was Patta...as my friend msp rightly identified...as bad as Nagpur....and give some credit to Aussies and Maxwell in particular

India has to summon up all mental strength for Dharamsala which assist seam bowling
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan on Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:28 am

for next game India should bring in Jayant.....in place of Nair...
and if Ashwin is really tired play Kuldeep in his place
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by guildfordbat on Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:02 am

So a draw it was. Did feel for quite a bit of the time that India were short of a sixth morning to get the win.

Nonetheless, a fine achievement by Australia to keep the hosts at bay. Something, England were unable to accomplish recently as their heads and wickets went too quickly.

Handscomb and Marsh the clear and obvious heroes today. However, KP-f's point about India's run rate (and the additional bowling time they would have had if it had been higher) is very valid. I give a lot of credit there to O'Keefe who stuck at it throughout his 77 overs and went at an average of under 2.6 per over. His 3 wickets weren't match influencing but his economy rate was.

As a more general point, I do wonder if some of you folks expect too much from a Test track. Sure, some tracks are more suitable than others. However, when the wicket is not being obliging, it's up to the bowler to come up with something else.

Probably the best bowling performance I've ever seen came from Michael Holding for the West Indies on a sun baked Oval road in 'the drought' year of 1976. Holding took the pitch out of the equation as he bowled with venomous pace mixing in a succession of toe crunching yorkers. He took 14 England wickets, 8 in the first innings of which all were bowled or lbw. Have a look - it must be in YouTube land.

Ok, Ashwin obviously can't do that and realistically neither could Yadav or Ishant bowl today like Holding did four decades ago. However, my point really is that you shouldn't rely on a surface to get you wickets, not even a fifth day surface. When it doesn't and especially if it's actually unhelpful, the bowler has to come up with something else. Change things, consider flight, consider pace. Good reasons for it being named a Test.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan on Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:57 am

guildfordbat wrote:

Nonetheless, a fine achievement by Australia to keep the hosts at bay. Something, England were unable to accomplish recently as their heads and wickets went too quickly.


. However, my point really is that you shouldn't rely on a surface to get you wickets, not even a fifth day surface. When it doesn't and especially if it's actually unhelpful, the bowler has to come up with something else. Change things, consider flight, consider pace. Good reasons for it being named a Test.


 couple of add on points on your well made note...

--The Difference between Eng and Aus's performance  is not between them.......... but the physical and mental energies of India.....which were quite high vs. Eng and the batteries are nearly drained off vs. Aus....

--Ashwin is capable of using flight, guile and variations even when pitch isn't responding and was doing that quite well at the start of this long season  and throuhg the better part of the  Eng series.....
He's just exhausted at the very least and perhaps carrying bruised/ sore fingers and / or shoulder.......and hence not getting the same revs, zipp that the fingers impart nor the same dip / loop that is shoulder reliant
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:57 am

alfie wrote:.......Just as well you weren't around in the sixties , Olly Smile

I think we might have had trouble persuading a 1960s version of Olly to support Surrey while the late, great Sir Ken Barrington was prodding suspiciously forward all day! Very Happy

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by guildfordbat on Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:44 am

KP_fan wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:

Nonetheless, a fine achievement by Australia to keep the hosts at bay. Something, England were unable to accomplish recently as their heads and wickets went too quickly.


. However, my point really is that you shouldn't rely on a surface to get you wickets, not even a fifth day surface. When it doesn't and especially if it's actually unhelpful, the bowler has to come up with something else. Change things, consider flight, consider pace. Good reasons for it being named a Test.


 couple of add on points on your well made note...

--The Difference between Eng and Aus's performance  is not between them.......... but the physical and mental energies of India.....which were quite high vs. Eng and the batteries are nearly drained off vs. Aus....

--Ashwin is capable of using flight, guile and variations even when pitch isn't responding and was doing that quite well at the start of this long season  and throuhg the better part of the  Eng series.....
He's just exhausted at the very least and perhaps carrying bruised/ sore fingers and / or shoulder.......and hence not getting the same revs, zipp that the fingers impart nor the same dip / loop that is shoulder reliant

Cheers, KP_f. I note and accept your comments about tiredness and exhaustion impacting India and especially Ashwin. I'm still not convinced that England would have maintained the mental concentration to last out the rest of the day if they had been in Australia's position of 60 odd/4 on the final morning but appreciate that India being nearly drained was of help to the visitors this week.

I didn't see the very end of the match but gather that Kohli and India stuck it out to the very end, his side bowling 92 overs on the final day rather than him shaking hands and agreeing the draw a little earlier as would normally have been expected with any possibility of the win already gone. Thought that was interesting, unusual anyway - certainly not the thing that happens in the English game when captains normally can't get off the pitch quick enough once a draw is inevitable. What do you think that was about here? Was Kohli trying to refute the suggestions of tiredness and show Australia that India still had plenty of fight, including for the Test decider?

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan on Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:19 pm

a good article on Saha.....and the silent value he has brought...

https://www.thequint.com/infographics/2017/03/22/wriddhiman-saha-wicketkeeper-india-vs-australia-test-series
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by alfie on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:57 pm

Think both guilford and KP-f have good points here.

India definitely seem to be showing the effects of a number of long and taxing matches : they had convincing wins over both England and Bangladesh ; but most matches involved a lot of overs...and certainly Ashwin looked to be less than his lively best in this latest match. I think they'll be able to rouse themselves for one last battle later this week , though it might be time to consider adding a fresh bowler , depending on the conditions ?
At the same time I also think this particular Australian batting lineup - at least the top half - are better suited to playing a rearguard action than the rather makeshift order England was putting out for the latter part of their series. Warner - and Maxwell , who surprised all of us with his first innings application - are the only out and out aggressors while Smith is well capable of either attack or defence and Renshaw , Handscomb and Marsh are all rather well suited to batting time.
Contrast with England where only Cook would be regarded as a safety first batsman : and doesn't it show when he gets out ! (Of course the likes of Root - and Ali and Bairstow , though both were rather overburdened as bowler/keeper in any case , are all able to defend for long periods : but it really isn't their natural game.)
I think the missing cog in the England wheel is a Trott rather than a Pietersen ...

Anyway this is about Australia and India : and they've given us a fascinating series so far. Not willing to pick a winner at this stage as a lot will depend on the usual unknowns of pitch and toss ...but somewhat added to by the issues of how the respective danger bowlers come up after what must have been a rather draining effort over the five days just past.
Can the injury prone Cummins really back up after that marathon ? How will O'Keefe bounce back from the sort of over count that used to occur in India and Pakistan back when they had rest days and decent breaks between Tests ?
And as for India , apart from Ashwin , Umesh has been doing a lot of work lately - as has Jadeja , but he somehow still seems to be running on Red Bull Smile

Reckon both teams have had enough time to get to know their opponents strengths and weaknesses by now so the tactics employed in this last clash will be interesting . Hoping for a fair pitch so we get a proper conclusion to this series . And spare us from any drs controversies , hopefully.

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan on Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:14 am

http://www.news18.com/cricketnext/news/mohammed-shami-answers-virat-kohli-sos-joins-team-in-dharamsala-1362692.html

shami joins the Indian team to provide additional cover in case conditions are seam friendly.
actually Bhuvi would be a better bet for such conditions
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by Gooseberry on Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:23 am

They are sticking with Ishant then?

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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan on Thu Mar 23, 2017 6:18 am

Gooseberry wrote:They are sticking with Ishant then?

I think Ishant should play...he is fit and rolling in momentum....too risky to bring in shami returning from injury and having played only List A games....

Bhuvi is the best for seaming conditions....comes in for Nair....and can bat a bit also
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Re: Aus coming to India

Post by KP_fan Yesterday at 7:45 am

Kohli may not be fully fit......and shreyas iyer called as cover
he should sit out......if not 100% when batting at least......
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