RFU pushing for 5 year residency rule

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 19 Jan 2017, 12:50 pm

First topic message reminder :

Well looks like things are moving....the RFu will be pushing for a 5 year residency and Pichot as Vice chairman of World Rugby is in agreeance!

The vote will take place in May...it will be interesting to see how it goes...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/01/18/rfu-spearhead-calls-residency-rule-extended-five-years-crackdown/

http://www.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12504/10733956/rfu-to-consider-five-year-england-residency-rule

http://worldsportsnews.ddns.net/news/rfu-may-impose-fiveyear-residency-rule-for-england-representation

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Post by miaow on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 1:17 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Sam Burgess who the RFU had nothing to do with?

Except, of course, they very much did. There is literal evidence for the RFU being directly involved in the signing of a player to a certain club, whom you stated the RFU had 'nothing to do with':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/10638549/Bath-owner-claims-RFU-pledged-to-pay-Sam-Burgess-500k-transfer-fee-and-its-they-who-are-pushing-deal.html

No 7&1/2 wrote:But RFU don't have a say in schools or clubs.

Here's some history on Rugby and the public school system in England:

https://www.rugbyschool.co.uk/about/history/a-history-of-rugby-football/

Is it too much of a stretch for you to grasp how a practice in these systems is mutually benefical for both the school system, the club system, and English professional rugby, even without the RFU directly overseeing all of it? I wasn't talking about the RFU as the explict driver behind bring in teenagers on scholarships, that would obviously be the school, but- as I stated- the RFU appear ambivalent at best to it, because why would they bite the largest that feeds them, which is the English public school system?

I was talking generally about how institutions- whether they be clubs, boards, schools, whatever- are already offering schoolchildren scholarships to leave their country based on their prowess in Rugby, not just in England. You stated that it was irrelevant because the RFU has no direct control over schools and clubs. Except that's literally not true, and an intentional underestimation of the power and role of the RFU in governing English rugby. How that then becomes moot to the discussion of how- with Rugby as an expanding and global sport, and the RFU very much the most powerful seat in the game, we should try to protect young talent in emerging and financially weaker nations- is honestly beyond me, but I'm not going to try to guess what goes on in your mind, other than to come to the conclusion that you have no intention of offering anything of substance.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Why would lengthening qualifying make English clubs go for younger players in greater numbers than they are already apparently doing?

Presumably, because it disincentivises the current situation whereby professional clubs across the world (but mainly in Europe, to a lesser extent SANZAAR) are recruiting players from abroad in order to 'qualify' them for their adopted country after three years. It's not solely done for that player to represent the country, but it improves the club's squad without said player taking up a Not X Qualified space. The National team then has the option of capping that player once qualified, and although that player can of course turn them down, the money and security on offer would far outweigh either returning to their 'home' nation (where there is no guarantee for selection for various reasons), or turning them down completely. Any player who does has to be admired, because it's a financially foolish but morally laudable thing to do.

It's precisely the same at school level, and New Zeland, England, and Australia seem to be the largest exponents: the club will benefit when they see a young Kenyan, Fijian, Georgian (wherever) schoolchild excelling for their school team aged 16, 17, 18 etc. That club would have almost no chance of recruiting that player were they back in Kenya, Fiji, or Georgia. The club therefore might not have 'caused' the player to come to NZ, or England, or wherever, but they're certainly complicit in benefitting from a practice that weakens emerging and financially weaker Rugby nations when they treat said players as 'homegrown' for clubs, and the national team.

I'd be willing to discuss the potential benefits of such a practice in certain situations, for all involved, and how as a short term option it's arguably not disastrous, but I'm not going to do that with you, 7.5. The point, in any case, that I was making was about 30-50 years time, and how financial powerhouses- i.e. the old Imperial powers- shouldn't be able to wield that power in continuining to mine the rough talent of weaker nations, thus hindering their development, and making Rugby more dictated by who is the wealthiest, and less meritocratic on sporting grounds. It's something to consider when discussing qualification based on residency: how do you discern between borderling exploitation by institutions, and not excluding youngsters from access to professional and age grade rugby who- along with their parents- came from 'abroad'. It's a tough question, and one I hoped might actually produce some serious discussion. I was wrong, clearly.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 1:20 pm

The rfu didn't fund any of the Burgess move. Probably best you didn't just start with a sentence targeting England on a day you had a major chip on your shoulder then if you want a serious discussion.

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Post by miaow on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 1:39 pm

7.5, talking to you is like being cross examined by the world's worst lawyer.

https://youtu.be/n87msBVVJ2o?t=10s

"But the RFU etc. etc...I rest my case."

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 24 Jan 2017, 1:42 pm

Can't get YouTube. What's it say?

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Sun 29 Jan 2017, 8:05 pm

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/australia-mull-back-flip-as-appetite-grows-for-new-fiveyear-test-rugby-residency-rule-20170120-gtvjjq.html

It appears that the five year residency rule will now happen, with those Unions against this change now in the minority.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 11:00 am

I hate this idea. It's f**kin' Trumponian in its Orwellianism!

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 11:11 am

Why Secret fly?

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 11:16 am

Im surprised Australia is backing the change. More than half their squad was born overseas. They are the worst offenders in world rugby.

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 11:18 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Why Secret fly?

Coz I like being mischievous.... Wink

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 30 Jan 2017, 11:19 am

I noticed Very Happy

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 3:03 pm

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/tfudakowski/challenge-emerging-rugby-nations/

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Post by marty2086 on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 3:06 pm

After reading the piece from Teo Fudakowski, would a change in the residency rules be more beneficial if they applied only to Tier One nations and left those countries outside of Tier One at 3 years?

It may even encourage players to go to countries they didnt consider before and help grow the game

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 19 Feb 2017, 6:07 pm

Speaking of this again. Solomona will test the will.

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Post by Shifty on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 11:28 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Morgan and Underhill but when they looked good they just moved back to the prem.

Actually that's not accurate. Morgan joined Ebbw Vale when every club in the top 2 divisions in England rejected him. Basically it was the only club who offered him any kind of semi pro contract.

Underhill came here to study and joined Bridgend, but the Ospreys snapped him up from their feeder club when he played well.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 11:32 am

Depends what you mean by project player if that's your point as clearly both impressed and then moved back to challenge for an England place.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 12:10 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Speaking of this again. Solomona will test the will.

Yesterday was the first time I had seen Solomona play, and he looked very good. However I would prefer it if any residency period only started from when he signed his first RU contract, and should be for 5 years.

EJ will be pragmatic - and if the RFU clear him as EQP he will of course consider him.

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Post by Shifty on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 12:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Depends what you mean by project player if that's your point as clearly both impressed and then moved back to challenge for an England place.

What it proves is England have so much depth that they can be wasteful, and players can move to the Welsh Premiership for a second chance when their career flounders, and fight their way back into contention. The standard in Wales is so poor that any half decent player will shine and get chances at regional level. It's like taking a step sideways and backwards to move forward.

I remember years ago Tonmawr did a link up with South African side Blue Bulls and two of their academy players came to play over here in the Premiership for a season. The gulf in talent was obvious.
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Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 12:23 pm

They impressed in the pro 12 though before being offered contracts back in the prem.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 2:06 pm

[b]EXILES CAMPS GIVE WELSH QUALIFIED PLAYERS ANOTHER OPTION[/b]

WRU running training camps for welsh qualified 13-18 year olds living in England. Full story below.


http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/38152.php#.WKrwvPnyiUk



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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 2:41 pm

?

Shocked

This is worse than the Russians. What did the defence secretary say about it? I'd say it requires at least an Aircraft carrier to move in close to the Welsh shoreline to warn them off.

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Post by LondonTiger on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 3:20 pm

Well they have not marched into Chester to annex it yet so ..........

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Post by geoff999rugby on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 6:52 pm

Build a wall that'll stop them Very Happy

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 8:02 pm

Just in from CNN.  The Welsh don't like the Wall! Run for your Lives!!!! Run


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Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 9:40 pm

Well i suppose since English elite rugby has a Bok Capt (for now) and an Aussie coach, young players who eschew mercenary rugby and value the jersey want to play for a side that values it's heritage. All welcome.

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Post by Cyril on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 9:48 pm

Gwlad wrote:Well i suppose since English elite rugby has a Bok Capt (for now) and an Aussie coach, young players who eschew mercenary rugby and value the jersey want to play for a side that values it's heritage. All welcome.
Who is the 'Bok captain'?  Headscratch

If you're going to try and be clever at least get it right Laugh

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 9:59 pm

Cyril wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Well i suppose since English elite rugby has a Bok Capt (for now) and an Aussie coach, young players who eschew mercenary rugby and value the jersey want to play for a side that values it's heritage. All welcome.
Who is the 'Bok captain'?  Headscratch

If you're going to try and be clever at least get it right Laugh

Funnily enough I heard an interview with someone to do with Ireland who was being asked about CJ Stander's qualifications to play for them. He replied with something along the lines of 'Well England has a NZ captain'

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Post by SecretFly on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 10:06 pm

Headscratch

Was the someone to do with Ireland right?

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Post by Gwlad on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 10:51 pm

Cyril wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Well i suppose since English elite rugby has a Bok Capt (for now) and an Aussie coach, young players who eschew mercenary rugby and value the jersey want to play for a side that values it's heritage. All welcome.
Who is the 'Bok captain'?  Headscratch

If you're going to try and be clever at least get it right Laugh

I should have got it right since half the pack are Kiwis. England should call themselves the All Whites.




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Post by lostinwales on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 11:35 pm

SecretFly wrote:Headscratch

Was the someone to do with Ireland right?
It may have been Schmidt but to be honest I can't remember

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Post by lostinwales on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 11:42 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Cyril wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Well i suppose since English elite rugby has a Bok Capt (for now) and an Aussie coach, young players who eschew mercenary rugby and value the jersey want to play for a side that values it's heritage. All welcome.
Who is the 'Bok captain'?  Headscratch

If you're going to try and be clever at least get it right Laugh

I should have got it right since half the pack are Kiwis. England should call themselves the All Whites.



Please tell us which half are kiwis? Maybe you meant half kiwi, as Hartley is half Kiwi, and so is Harrison, not that he's had much of a look in since the AI.

I guess Mako was born there, and at a stretch I guess you could say that Tonga is almost NZ, but its not really half though.

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Post by Gwlad on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:57 am

Between, Mako, Billy, Nathan, Ben and Dylan its starting to look more like a Premiership club than a National side. And we know Nathan's motivation.

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Post by geoff999rugby on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:32 am

Gwlad wrote:Between, Mako, Billy, Nathan, Ben and Dylan its starting to look more like a Premiership club than a National side. And we know Nathan's motivation.

Please even I find this disingenuous.
Mako, Billy, and Dylan were still school kids when they arrived
T'eo mother is English.

So that leave Nathan - who only plays when Billy is injured.

Wales aren't exactly short of player born outside Wales.
People in glass houses..........

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Post by marty2086 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:51 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
Gwlad wrote:Between, Mako, Billy, Nathan, Ben and Dylan its starting to look more like a Premiership club than a National side. And we know Nathan's motivation.

Please even I find this disingenuous.
Mako, Billy,  and Dylan were still school kids when they arrived
T'eo mother is English.

So that leave Nathan - who only plays when Billy is injured.

Wales aren't exactly short of player born outside Wales.
People in glass houses..........

Think he's just peeved the Vunipolas didn't play for Wales since they were eligible, even if they weren't eligible we know the Welsh would still play them Whistle

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Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:17 am

As soon as Papa Vunipola moved the family to Gloucestershire, they lost their Welsh eligibility. Sixth form scholarships at two fee-paying schools then set them well on their way to places in English academies and England recognition.

Now if Wales had any half decent schools............ Run

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Post by Gwlad on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 8:44 pm

LondonTiger wrote:As soon as Papa Vunipola moved the family to Gloucestershire, they lost their Welsh eligibility. Sixth form scholarships at two fee-paying schools then set them well on their way to places in English academies and England recognition.

Now if Wales had any half decent schools............ Run

sounds just how the NZRFU exploits the PI player base. thumbsup

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