England's 6 Nations Squad

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Post by LondonTiger on Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:59 pm

First topic message reminder :

Eddie Jones has announced his England squad ahead of the 2017 RBS 6 Nations.

The 34-man squad will train in Portugal between 22-27 January before assembling at Pennyhill Park to prepare for their opening match against France at Twickenham Stadium on Saturday 4 February (kick-off 4.50pm, live on ITV).

Jones has named three uncapped players in a squad made up of 20 forwards and 14 backs. Back-row forward Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers) is included alongside prop Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby) and back Alex Lozowski (Saracens)

“I’ve been impressed with the three uncapped players named in the squad," said Jones.

"They’re all guys who have great physical capabilities and they all have a desire to improve. With a number of injuries to some key players it’s a great opportunity for them."

There are also returns for James Haskell (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Jack Clifford (Harlequins) and Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs) who were unavailable for selection during the autumn.

“It’s good to welcome back a number of players who weren’t with us during the autumn," said Jones.

"This time last year I said that the long-term strategy for England is to develop a side who can be the most dominant team in world rugby. Obviously I’ve been pleased with how the team’s progressing, but there’s still plenty to improve on."

Backroom addition
Joining Jones’ backroom team will be visual awareness coach Dr Sherylle Calder, who will work with the team on a consultancy basis.

Dr Calder, who helps improve players’ peripheral vision, their reaction times and co-ordination, has been involved with two Rugby World Cup winning teams and has worked with a number of high-profile athletes across a multitude of different sports.
“2017 for us is about building really strong foundations for the team and making sure our fundamental skills are improving,” said Jones.

“Part of that is hand-eye co-ordination and our ability to handle the ball adroitly - Dr Sherylle Calder is an expert in that field.

“She has won two gold medals, 2003 with England and 2007 with South Africa, I used her extensively when I coached in Japan and had success with her then. I think she is really going to add an edge to the players’ preparation.”


England Senior 34–man squad for RBS 6 Nations

Forwards

Nathan Catt (Bath Rugby), Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), George Kruis (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Matt Mullan (Wasps), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Tommy Taylor (Wasps), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints).

Backs

Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath Rugby), Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby), Alex Lozowski (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby), Marland Yarde (Harlequins), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers).

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:03 pm

What is your current ideal lineup at present?

GF, no don't think he's too lightweight at all he's come on leaps and bounds in his overall game as well.

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Post by propdavid_london on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:03 pm

Haskell and Clifford aren't with the squad due to injury at the moment - article on the Beeb

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Post by Scottrf on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:06 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:What is your current ideal lineup at present?

GF, no don't think he's too lightweight at all he's come on leaps and bounds in his overall game as well.
I'll answer for him.

Vunipola George Barrington
Itoje Kruis
Fraser Vunipola Wray
Spencer Lozowski
Earle Farrell Barritt Ashton
Goode

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Post by beshocked on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:08 pm

Taylor is significantly lighter than both George and Hartley.

1.Mullan
2.George
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Kruis
6.Itoje (c)
7.Wood
8.Hughes

9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Nowell
12.Farrell
13.Joseph
14.Watson
15.Brown

16.Genge
17.Hartley
18.Sinckler
19.Lawes
20.Harrison (lack of options if Clifford and Haskell are injured)
21.Care
22.Slade
23.May


For once I'd like to see England picking the hooker and the lineout caller together. Crazy isn't it? Picking players who've worked a lot at the same club. You also get that if Hartley and Lawes are on the bench.


Last edited by beshocked on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by propdavid_london on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:11 pm

I cant see May getting benched! And I am sure that EJ will pick Teo over Slade.

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Post by beshocked on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:13 pm

Road runner played well in the AIs but Nowell is the better defender.

May could benefit more from being an impact player.

Also the issue is that May's a better bench option than Nowell, if Nowell doesn't start IMO it's hard to put him in the 23.

That's my ideal set up, I know Eddie won't pick it.

Slade also covers more positions than Teo.

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Post by Cyril on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:23 pm

beshocked wrote:Road runner played well in the AIs but Nowell is the better defender.

May could benefit more from being an impact player.

Also the issue is that May's a better bench option than Nowell, if Nowell doesn't start IMO it's hard to put him in the 23.

That's my ideal set up, I know Eddie won't pick it.

Slade also covers more positions than Teo.
Nowell can cover wing, fullback and 13?

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Post by cascough on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:25 pm

beshocked wrote:

For once I'd like to see England picking the hooker and the lineout caller together. Crazy isn't it? Picking players who've worked a lot at the same club. You also get that if Hartley and Lawes are on the bench.

You've used this logic to criticise Lancaster's selections and Tom Youngs' before. Now you're saying it's a good idea.

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Post by BamBam on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:26 pm

beshocked wrote:

For once I'd like to see England picking the hooker and the lineout caller together. Crazy isn't it? Picking players who've worked a lot at the same club. You also get that if Hartley and Lawes are on the bench.

I'm sure you'll have no issue at all if Hartley is chosen for his leadership and lineout throwing, then Lawes is chosen ahead of Kruis as he is Hartley's club mate and Kruis is just coming back from an injury

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:31 pm

Nowell is on fire at the moment...be hard not to include him.

Then its between Watson and May.

Hell why not drop Brown and go...

11 May
14 Nowell
15 Watson

Now THATS a signal of intent.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:32 pm

cascough wrote:
beshocked wrote:

For once I'd like to see England picking the hooker and the lineout caller together. Crazy isn't it? Picking players who've worked a lot at the same club. You also get that if Hartley and Lawes are on the bench.

You've used this logic to criticise Lancaster's selections and Tom Youngs' before. Now you're saying it's a good idea.

I do remember him bemoaning the selection of Parling during the world cup for that exact reason,familiarity with Tom Youngs.

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Post by cascough on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:33 pm

It's on one of the other threads too. Posted today, or very recently.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:33 pm

The wings is a real conundrum, I don't think Jones will find it easy to jettison May from the XV after the defensive shift he put in against Argentina.

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Post by beshocked on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:39 pm

Bambam you'd be picking on a non match fit player either way.

Parling was picked specifically to look after T.Youngs because T.Youngs throwing wasn't good enough.

The problem is that both T.Youngs and Parling were underpowered.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:47 pm

Kruis is match fit eh?

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:51 pm

Is Billy V definitely out for the whole six nations?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:54 pm

Yup.

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Post by majesticimperialman on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:02 am

Who is England 's back up to full back? I know Watson can play/cover full back. But what about Alex Lowozky ( spelling) is he a full back in waiting, or is he more of a centre/ flyhalf?

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:03 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Who is England 's back up to full back? I know Watson can play/cover full back. But what about Alex Lowozky (  spelling) is he a full back in waiting, or is he more of a centre/ flyhalf?

Is it still Alex Goode?

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:04 am

No guns.

Option there of him, Watson, Day or Nowell maj?

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Post by Scottrf on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:07 am

majesticimperialman wrote:Who is England 's back up to full back? I know Watson can play/cover full back. But what about Alex Lowozky (  spelling) is he a full back in waiting, or is he more of a centre/ flyhalf?
Only aware of him playing fly half.

I think Watson is probably #2.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:08 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:No guns.

Option there of him, Watson, Day or Nowell maj?

Arent they all wingers though?

Good to see Nowell back, cracking player IMO

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:11 am

Watson and Nowell have played there, Watson more but Nowell probably more in Brown's mold. Daly rather than Day (autocorrect!) Has played there and outside centre for Wasps.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:16 am

May too was seen as a fullback in his early career.

The last time I remember Brown going off was against Argentina ...which was a bit of an oddity anyway with Daly red carded ... but May half covered the full back role for most of the game and pretty much both wings as well once Brown was off.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:27 am

I think Watson has been lined up by the past two England set-ups as the long term full back.

He may not be in quite the same mould as Brown when it comes to scrapping but he isn't afraid to run hard and straight when needed.

Excitingly he offers far more pace from the back than any of our recent full backs have had.

Personally I think he's a better defender from full back than wing too as he's a much better cover tackler than he is front on. His positional play and sheer pace help him a lot defending from full back.

11.May
14.Nowell
15.Watson

That would be a fantastic back three. Especially if Jones can transition to that whilst Brown still has plenty to offer as a squad member and back up.

Roko, Yarde and if injuries strike even Wade give depth. Haley is a cracking talent. Lewington should be back in the Prem next season. Marcus Watson deserves a Saxons place. Nathan Earle is developing well now he's fit.

If Watson, May and Nowell can fulfill the potential we've been talking about since they were in the U20s then the back three will be very well stocked.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:56 am

Watson has played a lot of games at FB. He played there the other week when we beat Bath...but Watson was excellent.

I would have no qualms about him at FB on that showing. However I think Haley looks quality...

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Post by beshocked on Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:01 am

I personally think you would have to drop Brown completely from the 23 if he's not in the 15.

Don't see him as a versatile bench option,yes I know he's played on the wing but it's not an ideal option.

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Post by king_carlos on Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:16 am

I meant that I hope Brown stays in the EPS and training squads for a couple of years yet beshocked.

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Post by hugehandoff on Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:24 am

1.Mullan
2.George
3.Cole
4.Launchbury
5.Lawes
6.Itoje (c)
7.Wood
8.Hughes

9.Youngs
10.Ford
11.Nowell
12.Farrell
13.Joseph
14.May
15.Brown

16.Genge
17.Hartley
18.Sinckler
19.Kruis
20.Harrison
21.Care
22.Teo
23.Watson

I really think that players who have not been playing recently cannot start. Hartley should not be risked as a starter unless he plays for Saints this weekend, which is highly unlikely. Same applies to Kruis and therefore Lawes to start. No brainer moving Itoje to 6 with all the backrow injuries and that also brings Tom Wood back in for his experience. Watson will be on the bench. Marler needs to be released back to Quins for game time in the hope he will be ready for round 2.

Fingers crossed for The Brand that his foot injury is not long term or even career threatening.

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Post by beshocked on Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:37 am

I'd be happy with that line up hugehandoff. OK

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Post by lostinwales on Wed Jan 25, 2017 5:05 am

Within the squad it has to be Daly next at FB.

Watson may be the one to miss out initially out of our 3 main wingers.

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Post by Rugby Fan on Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:24 pm

Nick Bishop (once an an analyst for Gatland and Lancaster) has some thoughts on England's midfield, which he says is small by international standards.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/01/25/will-englands-small-men-stand-six-nations/

In short, he believes other sides may be more aware of the defensive weaknesses which have shown up in matches under Jones.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:04 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Nick Bishop (once an an analyst for Gatland and Lancaster) has some thoughts on England's midfield, which he says is small by international standards.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2017/01/25/will-englands-small-men-stand-six-nations/

In short, he believes other sides may be more aware of the defensive weaknesses which have shown up in matches under Jones.

I saw that as well. Bishops articles tend to be quite good albeit with more than a little SH flavour. He responds to all comments too.

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Post by GeordieFalcon on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:04 pm

If an issue arises....Eddie will revert to:

10 Farrell
12 T'eo
13 Joseph

Which will bump the stats considerably.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:07 pm

Hartley confirmed as captain.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hartley confirmed as captain.

Yahoo

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Post by Scottrf on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:12 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hartley confirmed as captain.
Obvious since the story of him improving his tackling.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:18 pm

Why guns?

True Scott. Going to be interesting in general how tackling changes during the 6Ns in comparison to previous internationals. Jones was vocal in more attacking from England so we may well see a lot more offloads.

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Post by Gooseberry on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:34 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:

In short, he believes other sides may be more aware of the defensive weaknesses which have shown up in matches under Jones.

Sides other than the ones they've beaten with said defensive weaknesses?

Its always a trade off, but frankly its a good move away form the days that England were selecting a midfield on its ability to walk into opposing players with force. Its not like Farrell cant /wont tackle either ... he has a habit of picking up yellows but gets stuck in and punches above his weight defensivley. Whilst You could argue that Jospeh can be targettted by big strike runners he makes up for that with his mobility ... as evidenced in the Agrentina game. The ground he covered was incerebidle.
As has been noted Plan B focuses on guys like Te'o and if he were ever fit Tuillagi. This is a change from the previous decade when its largely been that type starting to keep things tight and the flair players unleashed later. For all that it carries risk it has worked brilliantly for Jones so far, and if the likes of Aus etc hadnt picked up on it and developed an effective plan for exploiting it after the last 6 nations and summer tour then I dont see it as a huge issue that Italy are suddenly going to unerath two highly skilled 18 stone Samoans who once ate a pizza to play as crash ball centers.

Equally Jones is aware of the defensive issues (having grouched publically), and will no doubt be looking how to counter teams running through them. The mobile pack undoubtably part of that. But so long as they are scoring more than the oppsoition its not a bad thing to see them playing without fear and picking sides to be effective rather than to nullify the opposition as has happened too often in the past, funnily enough under Lancaster (despite all the stick he gave Johnson for doing it)..... maybe he was following Bishops advice on that?

So yeah its a thing, but its also not a thing. Yes ideally Farrell would be exactly how he is but with the physiquer of Itoje, then all the commentry team could fawn over his size and magnifcent tackle (giggle).

TL/DR England arent perfect. They are still better than the teams they have been beating for a year.

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Post by BamBam on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:40 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Hartley confirmed as captain.

I'm absolutely delighted, and I'm sure beshocked will be too

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:45 pm

I'm sure. It'll be like a Family guy star wars p*** take. Something something pedestal. Something something thug.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:46 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:

In short, he believes other sides may be more aware of the defensive weaknesses which have shown up in matches under Jones.

Sides other than the ones they've beaten with said defensive weaknesses?

Its always a trade off, but frankly its a good move away form the days that England were selecting a midfield on its ability to walk into opposing players with force. Its not like Farrell cant /wont tackle either ... he has a habit of picking up yellows but gets stuck in and punches above his weight defensivley. Whilst You could argue that Jospeh can be targettted by big strike runners he makes up for that with his mobility ... as evidenced in the Agrentina game. The ground he covered was incerebidle.
As has been noted Plan B focuses on guys like Te'o and if he were ever fit Tuillagi. This is a change from the previous decade when its largely been that type starting to keep things tight and the flair players unleashed later. For all that it carries risk it has worked brilliantly for Jones so far, and if the likes of Aus etc hadnt picked up on it and developed an effective plan for exploiting it after the last 6 nations and summer tour then I dont see it as a huge issue that Italy are suddenly going to unerath two highly skilled 18 stone Samoans who once ate a pizza to play as crash ball centers.

Equally Jones is aware of the defensive issues (having grouched publically), and will no doubt be looking how to counter teams running through them. The mobile pack undoubtably part of that. But so long as they are scoring more than the oppsoition its not a bad thing to see them playing without fear and picking sides to be effective rather than to nullify the opposition as has happened too often in the past, funnily enough under Lancaster (despite all the stick he gave Johnson for doing it)..... maybe he was following Bishops advice on that?

So yeah its a thing, but its also not a thing. Yes ideally Farrell would be exactly how he is but with the physiquer of Itoje, then all the commentry team could fawn over his size and magnifcent tackle (giggle).

TL/DR England arent perfect. They are still better than the teams they have been beating for a year.

Agree with a lot of that.

Surely Australia should have been well versed in England's defensive weaknesses in December, having already played us 3 times? But they couldn't capitalise enough to beat us, suggesting either the weaknesses aren't that great, or England have a good cover" plan, that isn't highlighted.

Wales cut us to ribbons in the last 10 minutes of our game last year and I'll accept we can be got at by clinical attacking play at pace. But then, can't everyone?

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Post by Scottrf on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:51 pm

Australia did cut through out defence at times, but it wasn't by overpowering our weaklings in the midfield, it was using pace of play to get the ball out wide quickly. Bit of a simplistic view IMO, not the biggest guys but decent defenders.

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Post by robbo277 on Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:56 pm

Scottrf wrote:Australia did cut through out defence at times, but it wasn't by overpowering our weaklings in the midfield, it was using pace of play to get the ball out wide quickly. Bit of a simplistic view IMO, not the biggest guys but decent defenders.

Line speed is normally very good for England which can force errors. Also means any breaks past the initial tackle line can potentially be snuffed out before the gain-line by the cover defence.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:00 pm

Gooseberry wrote:TL/DR England arent perfect. They are still better than the teams they have been beating for a year.

TL/DR?

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England's 6 Nations Squad - Page 3 Empty Re: England's 6 Nations Squad

Post by Scottrf on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:04 pm

Too long, didn't read.

TLDR: A summary.

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England's 6 Nations Squad - Page 3 Empty Re: England's 6 Nations Squad

Post by Poorfour on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:06 pm

Scottrf wrote:Australia did cut through out defence at times, but it wasn't by overpowering our weaklings in the midfield, it was using pace of play to get the ball out wide quickly. Bit of a simplistic view IMO, not the biggest guys but decent defenders.

And they did so more often in the 3rd test (and tried to do so in the AIs) when we didn't have Haskell in the team. Eddie's 6N and summer defensive system relied a lot on using the Hask's size and pace to get him out of the line and into the face of the 2nd receiver to stop the ball going wide. There was a noted dog leg in the line, which would normally be a gift for the opposition but it worked because of how much pressure England exerted.

Absent Hask, Harrison / Wood / Itoje weren't able to bring quite the same impact to the role.

But yeah, the bottom line is that this England side have some obvious weaknesses and things to work on, but they still beat everyone they played last year, by bigger winning margins than anyone except the All Blacks.

I'm nervous about whether Eddie will be able to get a heavily changed pack functioning well enough to take on all comers in a 6N where everyone will be gunning for England, but we will learn whether the strength in depth is there.
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:07 pm

Scottrf wrote:Too long, didn't read.

TLDR: A summary.

Ah, I see. OK

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:12 pm

The midfield might be smallish but JJ is a fabulous defender, his pace helps but I can't recall Kuridrani overpowering him. Little George Ford gets through a lot of unseen defensive work too.

Big isn't necessarily better.

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Post by cascough on Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:03 am

Defense...Positioning>Desire>Technique>Power.

Big hits are great, but they are such a small part of defense. If England get their line speed right then opposition won't have chance to get big runners actually running at our "small" midfield.

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