England U20 Squad 2017

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England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Cumbrian on Wed 25 Jan 2017, 5:47 pm

First topic message reminder :

England U20 make four changes to EPS
England open campaign against France in Exeter
Learn more about England's fixtures for the Six Nations, here
England Under 20 have made four changes to their 32-man Elite Player Squad (EPS) ahead of the 2017 Six Nations.

http://www.englandrugby.com/news/england-under-name-six-nations-squad/

Tom Parton (London Irish), Jake Pope (Sale Sharks) and Alex Seville (Gloucester Rugby) come into the squad as injury replacements for Ralph Adams-Hale (Saracens), Charlie Capps (Yorkshire Carnegie) and Ali Crossdale (Saracens).

Winger Paolo Odogwu (Sale Sharks) makes way for Saracens’ Dominic Morris as the fourth change to the squad.

Morris and Pope have the experience of featuring in last year’s Six Nations and, along with Parton and Seville, joined the rest of the group for a training camp in Loughborough last week as the team prepare to face France U20 at Exeter’s Sandy Park on Saturday 4 February (12:00 kick-off).  

The EPS includes five players who have featured in the Aviva Premiership this season while 10 of the squad have already been capped at this level.

England visit Eirias Park in Colwyn Bay for their second match of the tournament to face defending champions Wales before a home fixture against Italy at Darlington Mowden Park on Friday 24 February at 7:45pm.

England’s penultimate game of the Six Nations is against Scotland on Saturday 11 March at Franklin’s Gardens, Northampton, kick off 6:15pm. The side then finish their campaign in Dublin, Ireland.

All of the home England U20 Six Nations fixtures in 2017 will be shown live on Sky Sports.

England U20 Elite Player Squad 2017:

Sam Aspland-Robinson (Harlequins), Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons), Theo Brophy Clews (London Irish), Will Butler (Worcester Warriors), Josh Caulfield (Exeter Chiefs), Justin Clegg (Worcester Warriors), Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish), Ben Curry (Sale Sharks), Tom Curry (Sale Sharks), Ollie Dawe (Bristol Rugby), Ben Earl (Saracens), Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors), Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins), Nick Isiekwe (Saracens), Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby), Curtis Langdon (Sale Sharks), Max Malins (Saracens), Jack Maunder (Exeter Chiefs), Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby), Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints), Dominic Morris (Saracens), Josh Morris (Saracens), Joe Mullis (Gloucester Rugby), Jack Nay (Saracens), Tom Parton (London Irish), Jake Pope (Sale Sharks), Harry Randall (Gloucester Rugby), Alex Seville (Gloucester Rugby), Jamie Shillcock (Worcester Warriors), Jacob Umaga (Wasps), Max Wright (Yorkshire Carnegie), Zac Xiourouppa (Worcester Warriors).

England U20 Six Nations fixtures:
England v France: Saturday 4th February – Sandy Park, Exeter (KO 12:00pm)
Wales v England: Friday 10th February – Eirias Park, Colwyn Bay (KO 7:15pm)
England v Italy: Friday 24th February – Darlington Mowden Park (KO 7:45pm)
England v Scotland: Saturday 11th March – Franklin’s Gardens, Northampton (KO 6:15pm)
Ireland v England: Friday 17th March – Donnybrook Stadium, (KO 6:00pm)

By Position:

Props:

Ollie Dawe (Bristol Rugby)
Ciaran Knight (Gloucester Rugby)
Josh Morris (Saracens)
Jake Pope (Sale Sharks)
Alex Seville (Gloucester Rugby)

Hooker

Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons)
Curtis Langdon (Sale Sharks)
Joe Mullis (Gloucester Rugby)

Second Row:

Josh Caulfield (Exeter Chiefs)
Justin Clegg (Worcester Warriors)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors)
Nick Isiekwe (Saracens)

Back-row:

Ben Curry (Sale Sharks)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks)
Ben Earl (Saracens)
Zach Mercer (Bath Rugby)
Jack Nay (Saracens)
Zac Xiourouppa (Worcester Warriors)

Scrum Halves:

Jack Maunder (Exeter Chiefs)
Alex Mitchell (Northampton Saints)
Harry Randall (Gloucester Rugby)

Stand Off:

Theo Brophy Clews (London Irish)
Jamie Shillcock (Worcester Warriors)

Centres:

Will Butler (Worcester Warriors)
Dominic Morris (Saracens)
Jacob Umaga (Wasps)

Wings:

Sam Aspland-Robinson (Harlequins)
Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish)
Gabriel Ibitoye (Harlequins)
Max Wright (Yorkshire Carnegie)

Fullback:

Max Malins (Saracens)
Tom Parton (London Irish)

I reckon that this is one of the most interesting groups we've had in a while.  A large number of them are getting regular game time for their clubs.  In my opinion the ones to particualry look out for are Nick Isekwe, The Curry Twins, Zach Mercer, Jack Maunder, the two fly halfs, Joe Cokanasiga and Jacob Umaga.  Thinking about it, this is one of our stronger age grade groups, I'm expecting good things from these guys.


Last edited by Cumbrian on Thu 26 Jan 2017, 11:16 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 9:32 pm

Some of the skills and running ability (side steps etc) of the backs looks crazy aswell.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 9:37 pm

Final try by Parton to finish it off 46-0 final score

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 9:37 pm

Curry man of the match I think

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Cumbrian on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 9:39 pm

THGe interplay amongst the forwards in the last play before the last try was something to behold/ I t is hyperbolic of course but England are moving up a level with their play. It isn't enough for forwards to be bosh merchants and backs to be fancy Dans, both have the skilll and the strength to do what is required, the other test nations better watch out. Very Happy
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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 9:46 pm

Yeah its going to be great to see how they all develop and which ones actually make the breakthrough in the Seniors over the next 2-5 years....

Ben Curry looks odds on!

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Recwatcher16 on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 10:17 pm

A future Bath back row of Underhill(20) and Mercer(19) & Ellis(21) will be worth my season ticket in the next few years.

This current crop of U20s look very impressive.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by BigTrevsbigmac on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 9:08 am

Yes it was said even better than last years crop of World Champs

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 2:59 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Yeah its going to be great to see how they all develop and which ones actually make the breakthrough in the Seniors over the next 2-5 years....

Ben Curry looks odds on!

We've gone from worrying about finding a seven to having a plethora of talented options coming through, Curry x 2, Evans and Underhill. It's like a production line.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 4:57 pm

Just need to get some of them up to the seniors pronto. it is the only genuine weakness in the senior squad now.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 5:03 pm

Theres also a cluster just a slight few years older than this lot that we are still hopeful off aswell...

Harrison, Clifford, and Calum Chick (played very well today despite us getting beat.)

None are monsters though...wonder if that will hinder their chances.


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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Recwatcher16 on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 4:17 pm

England rotate again with seven changes from the last  game.  Notable returnees are Randall and Malins at halfback with Cokanasiga on the wing. Mercer captains the side again due to Ben Earls absence
England looking for a fourth bonus point in the tournament against Scotland who lost to Wales in the previous round.

Another strong squad with plenty of options on the bench.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 4:35 pm

Its nice to see that the age grade system might be working. As soon as these guys start nailing down starting spots for their clubs then you would like to think that they will be on the Seniors radar.

Good to see Randall and Malins given another go. Nice to see an evening match too.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 8:22 am

I don't think there's a might about it PropD, it's working.

We have the best U20 side around almost every year and the time it's taking players to get International recognition seems to be shortening. The physical condition and skill set these lads are displaying is quite amazing really.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:08 am

Yeah some of these lads are looking very impressive, but I still want to see how this impacts on the senior team over the next few years.

IF they are as good as we think, then they'll be pushing hard soon. But HOW many will actually break through....



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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:15 am

One thing I will say about your under 20s over the last few years you can see the difference the emphasis on technique and good basic skills has made you pretty untouchable.
6 or 7 years ago you were big and powerful but seem to lack a little something so smaller but more technical teams could cause you problems. Now your lads have the skills brains and size.
Can you stop that please it's unfair on the rest of us.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:22 am

Good point carpet...There has been a big shift in emphasis to skill sets. Seems to have made the age grade side that much more successful.

Its also useful having the JWC every year so that there are consistent fixtures against all opposition.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:22 am

Its a shame they don't do an U20s Lions tour!

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by carpet baboon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:23 am

propdavid_london wrote:Its a shame they don't do an U20s Lions tour!

Oooooo that would be intresting

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:23 am

Over recent years GF.....

LCD, Hill, Sinckler, Itoje, Clifford, Billy, Farrell, Ford, Nowell, Watson, Ewels, Slade, Moriarty!!!

A few years further.....

George, Mako, Marler, Youngs, JJ....

The success rate is improving every year. There is obviously a few that rise to the top quicker but generally the rugby is excellent.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by beshocked on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:23 am

Difficult to say Geordie because obviously players progress at different speeds.

Guys like Clifford and Slade who there have been high hopes for haven't yet hit the heights their potential suggests despite being two of the most promising former U20s.

Can't write off players though. Takes some time for most. Look at Kruis, he was England U20s way back in 2010, in contrast Itoje's transition was much faster.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:24 am

carpet baboon wrote:
propdavid_london wrote:Its a shame they don't do an U20s Lions tour!

Oooooo that would be intresting

Not really, it would be Lions whitewash each time. NH v SH would be a bit more interesting.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:27 am

That's what I mean Beshocked.

Obviously there are limited places available...and the current senior squad isn't exactly old! But we need a certain % of this team to really make a push for the Senior squad places every year. Now they might not make it (most wont due to numbers) ...but they need to push the current squad members to keep playing to their best.

At the moment...I don't think this is happening.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:28 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Over recent years GF.....

LCD, Hill, Sinckler, Itoje, Clifford, Billy, Farrell, Ford, Nowell, Watson, Ewels, Slade, Moriarty!!!

A few years further.....

George, Mako, Marler, Youngs, JJ....

The success rate is improving every year. There is obviously a few that rise to the top quicker but generally the rugby is excellent.

Yeah valid point Sgt

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:32 am

I can't agree with that GF, the transition from the U20's has been excellent over the last few years.

The overall quality of the squad means it very difficult for an U20's player to walk straight into the full set up and it generally takes a top class player to do this (Itoje, Ford, Farrell, Nowell, Watson etc).

We're the best U20 side in the world, year after year. If our full set-up wasn't so strong, most of these lads would be capped within a few years.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 9:40 am

No your probably right...when I saw your list I realised it is having an impact...even in the Welsh senior squad!

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:12 am

Moriarty did stand out in the U20s too - who else was in his age group?

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:18 am

2013-14 year JWC squad

Forwards
Biyi Alo (Saracens), James Chisholm (Harlequins), Joel Conlon (Exeter Chiefs), Tom Ellis (Bath Rugby), Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby), Jonny Hill (Gloucester Rugby), Paul Hill (Leeds Carnegie), Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (Northampton Saints), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Gus Jones (London Wasps), Alex Lundberg (London Wasps), Ross Moriarty (Gloucester Rugby), Harry Rudkin (Leicester Tigers), Harry Thacker (Leicester Tigers), Jack Walker (Leeds Carnegie), Tom Woolstencroft (Bath Rugby)

Backs
Callum Braley (Bristol Rugby, captain), Billy Burns (Gloucester Rugby), Nathan Earle (Saracens), Tom Fowlie (London Irish), Aaron Morris (Bedford Blues), Sam Olver (Northampton Saints), Henry Purdy (Leicester Tigers) ,Howard Packman (Northampton Saints), Harry Sloan (Harlequins), Tom Stephenson (Northampton Saints), Henry Taylor (Loughborough University), Nick Tompkins (Saracens)

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:21 am

So in the same group -
J.Chisholm has really just broken into Quins regular.
Charlie Ewels - been involved in wider EPS
Itoje - well documented
Harry Thacker - struggling for starting spot
Billy Burns - Starting 10 for Glouces
Harry Sloan - long term injured for Quins, looked good before injury though
Aaron Morris - now at Quins, Meh!
Packman and Stephenson have struggled for gametime

This was quite a productive year......

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:22 am

I remember Joel Conlon standing out at U20s - what's he been up to?

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:22 am

Yeah fair call PDL

Most of them are established in their clubs now. But only Maro and Paul Hill have pushed on for full international honours from that squad.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:23 am

Joel Conlon played against us for Sarries on Sunday. Seemingly he's been playing very well. Looks a tough flanker.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:26 am

Earle and Tompkins also starting to impress at Sarries.

I guess it just takes some players longer to develop. I'd expect a few more of those players to get Int recognition in the next few years.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Scottrf on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:27 am

Unfortunately Saints haven't brought those guys on well.

Hill - bench for Brookes - no rotation - Scrummaging apparently not good enough.
Packman - impresses for Wandies but don't remember his first team appearances.
Stephenson - Injury issues but rated. Will get first team action this year I'd guess.
Olver - never had a chance other than Anglo Welsh AFAIK but don't think he's good enough from what I've seen.

Mallinder obviously our breakthrough from Under 20s but his defence isn't good enough. Hopefully not a theme, haven't watched England U20s - might this weekend.
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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:28 am

propdavid_london wrote:So in the same group -
J.Chisholm has really just broken into Quins regular.
Charlie Ewels - been involved in wider EPS
Itoje - well documented
Harry Thacker - struggling for starting spot
Billy Burns - Starting 10 for Glouces
Harry Sloan - long term injured for Quins, looked good before injury though
Aaron Morris - now at Quins, Meh!
Packman and Stephenson have struggled for gametime

This was quite a productive year......

Morriarty is a fixture in the Wales side.
Joel Conlon - in the 23 man Saracens squad now...started v us on Sunday
Nick Tompkins - Isnt he regular starter for Saracens now.
Nathan Earles - came off the bench v us on Sunday for Saracens.


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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:29 am

Hill has been a very odd case. His scrummaging looked solid when he's turned out for England but doesn't seem to suit Saints. He is still very young for a TH, I think it may take a year or 2 to see him really kick on.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:30 am

I liked the look of Earle GF, first time I've seen him for Sarries. He was outstanding at U20 level but kind of fell off the radar.

He's super quick and keen for work. Quite physical and seems to have a good all round game. His finishing was his major plus for the U20 side but didn't really see him with ball in hand at the weekend.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:33 am

Hill, preferred by England over Brookes and the reverse at the club.
Sounds like he needs to more to me...


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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by propdavid_london on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:34 am

Didn't I read somewhere that Earle was loaned out to a Super Rugby or ATM cup for a while?

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:36 am

He played at Canterbury prior to the AP season. Impressed apparently, there's some good videos on youtube.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:38 am

Yeah I thought Earle looked very good aswell...and Saracens should be able to bring work on him aswell. Pace, Size, Power...and actually ran some decent lines. Maybe learning of Ashton!


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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by BamBam on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:29 pm

Of that squad, its interesting that the players who have made the step up (Moriarty/Itoje/arguably Ewels/Hill) have been forwards, when traditionally we would have thought that its backs who are more likely to break through internationally at a young age

None of the backs are even close to that level yet

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Cumbrian on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 2:10 pm

Sorry to come in late, but I would echo a lot of what has already been said. England's skills at age grade level are light years away from where they used to be. It makes me laugh when you get people going on about their size as now they are rarely much bigger than their opposition (if they are at all).

I think the transition from U20 to full senior side may take longer now because the squad is benefiting from the previous years good U20 squads making the step up.

For instance when Launchbury showed himself ready to make the step up, who was competing against? Courtney Lawes, Tom Palmer, Morritz Botha, Geoff Parling and a crocked Dave Attwood. Put another young lock transitioning between U20 and seniors, Charlie Ewels, into the same position and he's up against Lawes, Launchbury, Itoje, Kruis and a number of other guys who once up a time would have been England regulars. They are all relatively recently come through the U20s squad themselves.

This pattern repeats itself through the England squad (apart from in a few positions). I love to see it, England are layering quality on top of quality and there is no need to rush the young lads in. They can be eased into international rugby gently in a (hopefully!) winning environment.
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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Cumbrian on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 2:15 pm

This is one of the resasons I object to squad blockers like Te'o (I know he's done okay in the games he's had), the bloke has picked up his first cap at 30 and will be around for what 2-3 years at the most? I can understand hanging onto first choice guys like Mike Brown into their 30's, but why introduce somebody so short term? Could have had a young player coming on to gain experience.
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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 2:58 pm

Agree on the size point Cumbrian. I remember around 4 years or so ago and our pack was much bigger than most of the opposition, bar perhaps SA. We often outmuscled sides rather than outplaying.

It's totally different now. The guys coming through are genuine rugby players which is much more transferable to higher levels of rugby.

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 3:16 pm

Cumbrian wrote:For instance when Launchbury showed himself ready to make the step up, who was competing against?  Courtney Lawes, Tom Palmer, Morritz Botha, Geoff Parling and a crocked Dave Attwood.  Put another young lock transitioning between U20 and seniors, Charlie Ewels, into the same position and he's up against Lawes, Launchbury, Itoje, Kruis and a number of other guys who once up a time would have been England regulars.  They are all relatively recently come through the U20s squad themselves.  


You've just totally rammed down my throat the idea that its not working.... thumbsup

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Scottrf on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 3:17 pm

That's what she said.
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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by GeordieFalcon on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 3:23 pm

drumroll

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by Cumbrian on Fri 10 Mar 2017, 1:38 pm

Ah Geordie, I didn't mean to labour the point, I was more celebrating the depth that we finally seem to have. Smile
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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by DaveM on Fri 10 Mar 2017, 11:58 pm

In terms of second row strength in depth, Isiekwi is going to have to be some player to break into the England second row, but he might just do it. But then Hill is an even more exciting talent (playing second row for the u20s at only 17 years of age).

I think two things are different about this group, other than the general increase in skills levels (whatever happens tomorrow I believe this to be the best England u20 group ever).

First is the backrow. England have had the generally been the best u20 side now for, what, 5 or so years. But they have never produced a convincing backrow unit. Now they essentially have a glut - Mercer (will play 6 for England before the next WC in my opinion), Earls (fantastic at 7 in the first game), both Currys (are they both still 18?), and Bayliss. The idea that England's backrow is a weakness will be smashed by this group.

And at fly half we have an embarrassment of riches:

- Malins
- Brophy Clews
- Shillcock
- Umaga
- Crossdale
- Smith

To have 6 (six!) outstanding talents in (almost) the same age group in the same position is extraordinary.

I believe the injection of the players in this u20 cohort into the senior squad has the ability to make the senior side the best in the world in the early 2020s.

And this year's u18's are outstanding - they stuffed France last week. And, continuing the backrow theme, they have a standout number 6. Very exciting times coming up over the next decade.

DaveM

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

Post by DaveM on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 12:58 am

For those who haven't seen Crossdale:

Ali Crossdale

DaveM

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Re: England U20 Squad 2017

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