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Ongoing NFL Discussion Thread V

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 8 Jan - 20:50

First topic message reminder :

Pr4wn wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Pr4wn wrote:Love this Texans D. They're amazing without Watt. Scary.

Amazing is a bit far - they're pretty good, nothing special.

Number one D in the NFL without their best player.

They're one of about 8 teams to hold that tag - and lets face it it's measured in yards...in points the #1 D was the Pats.

No great defences out there this year, just a lot of pretty good ones. If they had Watt, maybe they'd be great...but they don't
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Post by Pr4wn Mon 29 Jan - 14:17

Yet another year where I'm wishing for a way for both teams in the Superbowl to lose.

I'm so over the Patriots, though. Unbelievably dull.

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Post by GSC Mon 29 Jan - 14:44

Kinda wish the Jags made the SB so I could go full heel
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Post by Pr4wn Mon 29 Jan - 15:30

I'd have loved it if the Jags made it. The officiating in that game was nothing short of shambolic. Jags deserved the win.

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Post by GSC Mon 29 Jan - 17:17

Jags have no one to blame but themselves. Stopped playing to win at the end of the first half.

Eagles got the ball with about half the time left the Jags had with no timeouts and got a FG running 2 screens and a wide open Ertz
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 29 Jan - 17:52

If you look at their 4th quarter play calling on both sides of the ball they stopped doing what was working - for some bizarre reason they stopped playing man on defence and went zone (thus Amendola was open literally the whole time), and on offence their play calls for four drives in a row was run up the middle, deep shot, pass short of the sticks on 3rd down.

It was Atlanta esque stupidness
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Post by GSC Wed 31 Jan - 3:48

DAN
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Wed 31 Jan - 6:53

The most redskins move ever
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Post by Lowlandbrit Wed 31 Jan - 7:14

A 3rd round pick, Kendall Fuller and $70 million guaranteed for Alex Smith just to avoid giving Cousins a new contract. There's been a lot of debate about what the Redskins should do, but surely we can all agree it wasn't this?

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Post by GSC Wed 31 Jan - 9:05

They've spent 3 years avoiding ponying QB money for a guy they publicly griped wasn't good enough to carry a team to a ring.

They then trade a 3rd rounder, their best corner last year and give 70m guaranteed to a QB 2 QB gurus have decided isn't good enough to win a ring.
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Post by skins4ever Wed 31 Jan - 18:20

I'm probably in the minority in saying that I expected this and don't have a big problem with the deal. I'm a little put off by the contract and letting Fuller go, but there are a few reasons I actually think it suits us right now.

1) Cousins didn't seem interested in signing a long term (sort of) cap friendly deal, and ultimately I agree that good as he is, he can't carry a team on his back.
2) Had we resigned him, it would likely be an albatross contract and hamstring our ability to bring in SB quality talent in the next year or 2 to bolster the D and keep the O in good shape.
3) It saves us having to draft a win now QB in the draft, and maybe not even draft one at all. Most mocks have predicted the Skins having to go QB and early because they all expected Cousins to walk. We can probably focus away from QB now for 2-3 years drafts, and we haven't taken the big cap hit expected so we have room to sign an FA or 2 that could make the difference. We could, for example go after someone Jarvis Landry if they don't resign Pryor, or they let Fuller go because they are looking to target Johnson or Butler? The cap space opens up possibilities in the coming years.
4) The lack of need to concentrate on QB should mean we draft real needs at other positions (like S, DL and OL) or even trade down to maximise picks. And the same could apply next year. We can draft a QB in 2 years and he will still have 1-2 seasons on the bench instead of a repeat of the Griffin situation.

My worries are:

1) We don't have a medium to long term answer at TE, unless Reed can suddenly find a way to stay healthy. Sprinkle might be a find, but if Davis is still playing at a starter level, can he develop behind Davis and Reed? I can't see anyone in FA to enable a change, and it would be plain dumb to draft another TE this year. If anything, I'd have been looking for a trade deal on Reed to get value while they still can?
2) With Fuller and Breeland gone or going, we're paper thin at CB. As said, I suspect they may make a play for one of the top FA's, but they are still going to have to expend at least one pick on a CB to ensure some kind of depth.
3) Smith probably isn't going to get a ring on his own, so are they expecting to build a team that can do it with his limitations? So is it a build to win in 2-3 years scenario, or are they going dumb again and throwing money at guys in the hope of winning now? I really hope it's not the latter!

I like the way Smith approaches everything, he's a bit like John McClane! Smile I just hope he doesn't have to die hard in DC.

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Post by Number-25 Wed 31 Jan - 23:00

Predictable hysteria on here about the Redskins trade for Smith.... am particularly enjoying the hyperbole around Kendall Fuller.... he’s a freakin slot corner!! And an OK one at that... nothing more, nothing less. Holsey or Moreau will likely replace him just fine.

As for the rest of the trade who the feck cares? We sucked before and we’ll still suck after it... but we’ve sucked for the last 25 years and will still suck in another 25 years time so honestly, who the feck cares? At least Smith will be a cheaper option than the stat stuffer Cousins and we have the added bonus of people talking about this rather than the Eagles Superbowl appearance.

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Post by skins4ever Wed 31 Jan - 23:33

Number-25 wrote:and we have the added bonus of people talking about this rather than the Eagles Superbowl appearance.
laughing

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Post by Number-25 Thu 1 Feb - 0:52

That’s my favourite bit Skins... we’ve not had much to smile about the last quarter of a century so watching the Eagles HC have to answer a question about the Redskins at a Superbowl presser... I’ll take that.

As for the trade.... Smith=Cousins but cheaper. The stat stuffer signs elsewhere in FA we get a 3rd round compensatory pick in 2019 to square off the 3rd round pick we give up this year. I’m completely ambivalent towards this trade.

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Post by GSC Thu 1 Feb - 7:28

I'd take a blind stab that he was asked because he was the Chiefs OC 2 years ago but hey, take your victories where you can
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Post by Number-25 Thu 1 Feb - 9:40

I'd say your wild stab is spot on GSC... but I'm still taking it Laugh

I'm so conflicted on this trade... I hate it on one hand but can see the sense and thinking behind it on the other.

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Post by GSC Thu 1 Feb - 9:49

From the position they were in it was a solid move.

Getting themselves in that position however took some of the poorest management this side of Cleveland. You can't spend years sniping at Cousins for not being good enough to carry a team then pay a premium for a older, worse QB who 2 very competent QB gurus decided wasn't good enough to carry a team.

The reality in the NFL is there aren't 32 good QBs and the ones that are, get paid. For trying to deny this, the Skins ended paying a third rounder, their best corner from a year ago and 70m to get older and worse at QB.

(And the 3rd round comp pick requires Snyder and co to sit out FA)
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Post by Number-25 Thu 1 Feb - 20:32

Agree that all the Redskins have done is try fix a bad situation of their own making.

Disagree that Smith is worse than Cousins..... Smith = Cousins.... just cheaper.


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Post by GSC Thu 1 Feb - 20:57

Cousins is definitely better than Smith. Not sure it's that close either, the Chiefs basically had to run a gimmick offense to account for his limitations.

What Cousins did last year with a beat up OL and productive receivers replaced by turds was much more impressive than anything Smith has done.
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Post by Number-25 Thu 1 Feb - 21:25

What you saw from Cousins last season was more of the same... a QB that comes up small in big moments, who can't get the job done in the redzone or 3rd down and who doesn't play well in pressure situations. His stats may look good but scratch the surface and it's ugly. Situational football is his downfall and is exactly why any team with Cousins at the helm, unless everything else is perfect or close to it will be doomed to a life of 8-8 +/- 2 games depending on how the breaks go. I could have lived with it for sensible money but for circa 27mil per year frankly I'd had enough of him.

Smith will be no better... but he'll be no worse. Here's to another 6-10 to 8-8 season again next year.

Anyway... enough about my manky mob... what's gonna happen on Sunday? Eagles going to win?? The closer it gets the more I'm finding myself wanting the Eagles to do it!

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Post by GSC Thu 1 Feb - 21:56

My expectations for this season died with Wentz's knee. that said if Sam Bradford and Chip Kelly can beat the Pats in Foxborough, and the Jags can almost do it pretending the passing game doesn't exist, they have a shot by dominating both lines. Not that likely though.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 2 Feb - 8:23

GSC wrote:Cousins is definitely better than Smith. Not sure it's that close either, the Chiefs basically had to run a gimmick offense to account for his limitations.

What Cousins did last year with a beat up OL and productive receivers replaced by turds was much more impressive than anything Smith has done.

I agree with this - two of the best offensive minds of recent times have decided Alex Smith (in his prime years) was not good enough to get them over the hump, let alone a 34 year old one who showed since about week 6 this past season he was very below average. It's not the worst situation Washington could've found themselves in of course, but you're just tying yourselves to mediocrity for longer. Go take a punt on a QB in the draft, try to find a real difference maker!

As for the Super Bowl - as GSC says, Eagles need to dominate both lines, and Foles to play like he did in the NFC title game (not in games previous), then they have a real shot. if you get the Foles that played against the Raiders/Cowboys, Philly has issues. I do think the Pats will be able to move the ball against the Eagles D fairly easily, not sure Philly has anyone who can begin to cover Gronk or the RBs like Jacksonville did (and that's really why they were in that game)
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Post by Number-25 Fri 2 Feb - 10:52

Agree with drafting a QB... that's the way I'd have gone this offseason... it's not like we're close to evem winning the division at the moment so nothing to lose by taking a swing in the draft and hoping we strike gold and get a guy to build around.

Also don't get me wrong re Smith... I'm not saying he's great or anything like that... he's fine... nothing more and nothing less. Just like Cousins is fine. Neither will get you over the hump though. They're the same QB. I'm not worried about Smith's age too much... he looks after himself and is a good pro so he could easily go on another 4 years or so.... the worrying bit is whether the Redskins brain trust is smart enough to start planning for Smith's departure right now and history doesn't give many reasons for optimism in that regard.

I'd have taken a swing in the draft this year though.

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Post by GSC Fri 2 Feb - 11:11

Number-25 wrote:the worrying bit is whether the Redskins brain trust is smart enough to start planning for Smith's departure right now .

Spoiler:
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Post by Number-25 Fri 2 Feb - 18:39

Laugh

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Post by skins4ever Sat 3 Feb - 16:29

OK, who's getting MVP this year? I'd like to see anyone else but Brady get it, but seeing how their D was al but useless early on and he kept them in the hunt until the D caught up, I can't see anyone else getting it. Gurley is a worthy winner, but he couldn't carry the team like Brady has.

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Post by GSC Sun 4 Feb - 8:39

Even accounting for that I thought Urlacher was kinda overrated, that's a stacked HoF class.

Next year will be equally stacked
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Post by Number-25 Sun 4 Feb - 10:35

TO.... why??

He’s got stats but won nothing and is a douchebag.

That he got into the HoF and Joe Jacoby didn’t is an actual crime.

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Post by GSC Sun 4 Feb - 10:57

4/5 members of the class don't have rings. It's an individual accolade not a team one. T.O is a top 5 receiver all time
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Post by GSC Sun 4 Feb - 11:00

Last year was the year to complain about snubs when a kicker went in.

Wouldn't hold out hope for next year either, Tony Gonzalez, Ed Reed, Champ Bailey and Brian waters are all up
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 4 Feb - 13:40

TO is literally the 3rd/4th best WR of all time, it’d be a crime if he hadn’t got in
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Post by Number-25 Sun 4 Feb - 21:47

You’ve taken that too far

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Post by Guest Sun 4 Feb - 22:02

Where are we putting our dosh tonight, Olly?

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 4 Feb - 23:02

Solid - I’ve got some good ones like first kickoff no touchback at 11/8, first Pats TD scorer James White at 8/1 and first eagles TD scorer Corey clement at 14/1

Also placed money on Philly to win cos the odds they’re offering were crazy for what’s a 50/50 game
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Post by Guest Sun 4 Feb - 23:06

OK They were an even bigger price 2 weeks ago. On it.

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Post by Guest Sun 4 Feb - 23:07

That is one beautiful arena.

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Post by Duty281 Sun 4 Feb - 23:22

New England going to cruise this.

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Post by Guest Sun 4 Feb - 23:24

Cos they got England in their name, Duty? Laugh

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Post by Duty281 Sun 4 Feb - 23:30

Haha. Precisely!

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Post by Guest Sun 4 Feb - 23:32

Top man, LOL.

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Post by Breadvan Sun 4 Feb - 23:44

Decent opening drive by Phily.
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Post by Guest Mon 5 Feb - 0:29

I'm getting high off Josh Norman's enthusiasm. The GOAT guest.

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Post by Guest Mon 5 Feb - 0:32

It's last year all over again....

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Post by Duty281 Mon 5 Feb - 0:33

Time to bet the house on New England...

Philadelphia may very well regret not getting extra points on either of their touchdowns.

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Post by No name Bertie Mon 5 Feb - 0:38

The Patriots have developed a fearsome reputation of being able to clawback any deficit in the fourth.  I wonder what the menu is going to be for today.

They are the two best teams in the Leagues with virtually identical main season records:
New England Patriots: win 13 loss 3 points for 458 points against 296
Philadelphia Eagles...: win 13 loss 3 points for 457 points against 295  

Of course the Eagles lost their brilliant quarterback late in the season but their replacement seems to have been equally as good.
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Post by No name Bertie Mon 5 Feb - 0:57

Three touchdowns so far and no conversions.   Must be swirling winds or something?  Actually the kicking distance for the extra point is so short, winds shouldn't play much of a role.
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Post by Guest Mon 5 Feb - 1:04

Ballsy! Great stuff.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 5 Feb - 1:22

Pats defence literally could not be playing worse if they tried - and the coaching is embarrassing. Why is Jordan Richards playing over Butler. Why is Rowe on Jeffrey to start the game? Why is McDaniels calling the worst third down calls he has all season?

Getting out coached and manned by Philly so far
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Post by Guest Mon 5 Feb - 2:04

Massive controversy, there.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 5 Feb - 2:06

Slightly stunned that was given!

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Post by Duty281 Mon 5 Feb - 2:12

Excellent response, that.

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