6N 2017: Wales v England, 11 February

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 06 Feb 2017, 3:57 pm

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6N 2017: Wales v England, 11 February - Page 2 Wales106N 2017: Wales v England, 11 February - Page 2 Englan11
WALES 
ENGLAND 
11 February 2017
KO:16:50 GMT
Principality Stadium, Cardiff

Live on [ITV, RTE, SC4, FR2, DMAX / BBC (H)]

Referee: Jerome Garces (France)
Touch judges: Pascal Gauzere (France) & Nick Briant (New Zealand)
TMO: Glenn Newman (New Zealand)

A. Head to Head

129 Played 129
57 Won 60
12 Drawn 12
60 Lost 57
1,673 Points 1,518

B. Recent Form 

29 May 2016: Twickenham, London
27 – 13 to England
2016 mid-year rugby union internationals

12 March 2016: Twickenham, London
25 – 21 to England
2016 Six Nations Championship

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London
25 – 28 to Wales
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A

26 September 2015: Twickenham, London 
25 – 28 to Wales 
2015 Rugby World Cup Pool A 

6 February 2015: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
16 – 21 to England 
2015 Six Nations 

9 March 2014: Twickenham Stadium, London 
29 – 18 to England 
2014 Six Nations 

16 March 2013: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
30 – 3 to Wales 
2013 Six Nations 

25 February 2012: Twickenham Stadium, London 
12 – 19 to Wales 
2012 Six Nations

13 August 2011: Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 
19 – 9 to Wales 
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test 

6 August 2011: Twickenham, London 
23 – 19 to England 
2011 Rugby World Cup warm up test 

C. Teams


WALES
6N 2017: Wales v England, 11 February - Page 2 Burton10
15-Leigh Halfpenny, 14-George North, 13-Jonathan Davies, 12-Scott Williams, 11-Liam Williams, 10-Dan Biggar, 9-Rhys Webb; 1-Rob Evans, 2-Ken Owens, 3-Tomas Francis, 4-Jake Ball, 5-Alun Wyn Jones, 6-Sam Warburton, 7-Justin Tipuric; 8-Ross Moriarty.

Replacements: 16-Scott Baldwin, 17-Nicky Smith, 18-Samson Lee, 19-Cory Hill, 20-Taulupe Faletau, 21-Gareth Davies, 22-Sam Davies, 23-Jamie Roberts.

ENGLAND
6N 2017: Wales v England, 11 February - Page 2 Carygr10
15-Mike Brown, 14-Jack Nowell, 13-Jonathan Joseph, 12-Owen Farrell, 11-Elliot Daly, 10-George Ford, 9-Ben Youngs; 1-Joe Marler, 2-Dylan Hartley (captain), 3-Dan Cole, 4-Joe Launchbury, 5-Courtney Lawes, 6-Maro Itoje, 7-Jack Clifford, 8-Nathan Hughes.

Replacements: 16-Jamie George, 17-Matt Mullan, 18-Kyle Sinckler, 19-Tom Wood, 20-James Haskell, 21-Danny Care, 22-Ben Te'o, 23-Jonny May.


Last edited by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 06 Feb 2017, 4:02 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by True Raven on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 11:46 am

SecretFly wrote:I'm with tightHead...even though he's been a wumtastic poster lately Wink.

Rugby is an outdoor game.  The weather should be allowed in to affect it.  You already got the professional fields cleaned up (drainage) to get the muck out of your expensive boots.  Let's not go too far down the pampered route.

But if Rugby does become an indoor sport then I want to see snooker brought outdoors to balance things up.

I remember the Ospreys played at Ravenhill and the wind was so bad that whenever you kicked the ball, it ended up behind you. People complained about the weather ruining the game and at least with a roof you can control that situation

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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 11:50 am

True Raven wrote:
Exiledinborders wrote:
Scottrf wrote:I think I'd rather have the roof closed if it means better conditions to chase the bonus point.
You are right however it does then lead to the question of whether the roof should be allowed at all.

If one accepts the idea that a closed roof means ideal conditions and that in turn leads to more tries then logically any team coming to Cardiff should choose to have the roof closed as it maximises their chances of a bonus point in that match. However if all teams choose to do so that means that Wales will have two or three games with that advantage and the other teams one or no games.

That's what I thought when Howley complained about not being able to close the roof for all home games.....then I thought f*** it, you lot missed a trick by not having your own roof Very Happy


Mayb us lot who missed a trick by not having our own roof, prefer to to play the game as it is supposed to be played....OUT DOORS. Very Happy

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Post by miaow on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:01 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Roof open and it rains, the ball is wet.

Roof closed the ball becomes greasy.

Makes no odds to me but Rugby is an outdoor game.

Exactly. The benefit of the roof being closed is primarily atmospheric, unless the weather is truly dreadful.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:01 pm

True Raven wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I'm with tightHead...even though he's been a wumtastic poster lately Wink.

Rugby is an outdoor game.  The weather should be allowed in to affect it.  You already got the professional fields cleaned up (drainage) to get the muck out of your expensive boots.  Let's not go too far down the pampered route.

But if Rugby does become an indoor sport then I want to see snooker brought outdoors to balance things up.

I remember the Ospreys played at Ravenhill and the wind was so bad that whenever you kicked the ball, it ended up behind you.  People complained about the weather ruining the game and at least with a roof you can control that situation

No, yous are too mollycoddled. Rugby is a muck, wind and sleet game. Have yis no regard for tradition?

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Post by miaow on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:You already got the professional fields cleaned up (drainage) to get the muck out of your expensive boots.  

DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGEEEEEEEE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKQ3LXHKB34

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Post by Gooseberry on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:10 pm

SecretFly wrote:
But if Rugby does become an indoor sport then I want to see snooker brought outdoors to balance things up.

It makes sense. If they take snooker outdoors then the players could smoke again.
And if it rains they can play pool.

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Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:10 pm

True Raven wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I'm with tightHead...even though he's been a wumtastic poster lately Wink.

Rugby is an outdoor game.  The weather should be allowed in to affect it.  You already got the professional fields cleaned up (drainage) to get the muck out of your expensive boots.  Let's not go too far down the pampered route.

But if Rugby does become an indoor sport then I want to see snooker brought outdoors to balance things up.

I remember the Ospreys played at Ravenhill and the wind was so bad that whenever you kicked the ball, it ended up behind you.  People complained about the weather ruining the game and at least with a roof you can control that situation

Are you suggesting Ravenhill should get a roof ??? Smile

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Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:12 pm

I cannot wait for this game and that's why this tournament is so great. Ireland will have played their game but this is the one I am looking more forward to. I reckon it'll be a real slugfest, a battle right to the end.

Mind you with last week's predictions I'm hardly worth listening to.

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Post by dummy_half on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:16 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I'm with tightHead...even though he's been a wumtastic poster lately Wink.

Rugby is an outdoor game.  The weather should be allowed in to affect it.  You already got the professional fields cleaned up (drainage) to get the muck out of your expensive boots.  Let's not go too far down the pampered route.

But if Rugby does become an indoor sport then I want to see snooker brought outdoors to balance things up.

I remember the Ospreys played at Ravenhill and the wind was so bad that whenever you kicked the ball, it ended up behind you.  People complained about the weather ruining the game and at least with a roof you can control that situation

Are you suggesting Ravenhill should get a roof ??? Smile

From the sounds of it, that day it would have blown off.

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Post by miaow on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:17 pm

Anyway, Wales's team selection.

The obvious change for me is Rob Evans for Nicky Smith. Massive difference in the scrum, it was emphatic, more so than on the tight head. He also adds as much in the loose- probably more so due to his size and strength- than Smith. As close as there can be to a 'no-brainer' (stupid saying).

Tomas Francis for Samson is another one, albeit less obvious. Francis is now the better scrummager, and also looks fitter and more mobile. The only negative is that do you want Samson coming off the bench when the game is more open, or do you want him potentially being a weakness against Joe Marler from the first whistle, then lasting anywhere between 30-50 minutes? Tricky situation, but Samson doesn't look fit, and could be a weakness.

The other one would be Baldwin for Ken Owens, but only because Ken offers a lot more off the bench than Baldwin. No preference here. Would be content with either.

Jake Ball has to start. We don't have enough grunt in our team to match England as it is without taking away our strongest grafter. I think you have to have Faletau in the 23. I'd be tempted to bring him off the bench. He's not going to be match fit and whilst he's always going to be able to play the 80, might he be more effective coming on and giving 20 minutes's of Hell to England rather than being shot after an hour?

The rest of the team stays the same for me.

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Post by True Raven on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:20 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
True Raven wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I'm with tightHead...even though he's been a wumtastic poster lately Wink.

Rugby is an outdoor game.  The weather should be allowed in to affect it.  You already got the professional fields cleaned up (drainage) to get the muck out of your expensive boots.  Let's not go too far down the pampered route.

But if Rugby does become an indoor sport then I want to see snooker brought outdoors to balance things up.

I remember the Ospreys played at Ravenhill and the wind was so bad that whenever you kicked the ball, it ended up behind you.  People complained about the weather ruining the game and at least with a roof you can control that situation

Are you suggesting Ravenhill should get a roof ??? Smile

Yep Whistle

Would save games like this being played

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/ulster-see-off-ospreys/

and maybe we might win at Ravenhill Whistle

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Post by True Raven on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:22 pm

miaow wrote:Anyway, Wales's team selection.

The obvious change for me is Rob Evans for Nicky Smith. Massive difference in the scrum, it was emphatic, more so than on the tight head. He also adds as much in the loose- probably more so due to his size and strength- than Smith. As close as there can be to a 'no-brainer' (stupid saying).

Tomas Francis for Samson is another one, albeit less obvious. Francis is now the better scrummager, and also looks fitter and more mobile. The only negative is that do you want Samson coming off the bench when the game is more open, or do you want him potentially being a weakness against Joe Marler from the first whistle, then lasting anywhere between 30-50 minutes? Tricky situation, but Samson doesn't look fit, and could be a weakness.

The other one would be Baldwin for Ken Owens, but only because Ken offers a lot more off the bench than Baldwin. No preference here. Would be content with either.

Jake Ball has to start. We don't have enough grunt in our team to match England as it is without taking away our strongest grafter. I think you have to have Faletau in the 23. I'd be tempted to bring him off the bench. He's not going to be match fit and whilst he's always going to be able to play the 80, might he be more effective coming on and giving 20 minutes's of Hell to England rather than being shot after an hour?

The rest of the team stays the same for me.

I'd change the whole front row and have Baldwin in too. Adds more weight to the front five

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Post by Guest on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:29 pm

New Zealand have a stadium with a permanent/fixed glass roof. Hosted a rugby world cup game in 2011 I think:

On a scale of 'not at all wrong' to 'very very wrong', this seems very wrong to me! I mean, imagine cleaning the glass!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium


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Post by lostinwales on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:33 pm

Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.

He's very efficient at doing this, so don't take much of what he says very seriously.

As for the game there is a lot of Welsh talking themselves up and England (and everyone else) talking England down. Both teams are currently lacking effective heavy duty ball carriers, and England for one haven't really worked out how to play without Billy yet.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:35 pm

Griff wrote:New Zealand have a stadium with a permanent/fixed glass roof.  Hosted a rugby world cup game in 2011 I think:

On a scale of 'not at all wrong' to 'very very wrong', this seems very wrong to me!  I mean, imagine cleaning the glass!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsyth_Barr_Stadium


Glass cleans itself these days, Griff - yet another job they've taken away from those pesky humans Wink

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Post by True Raven on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:39 pm

lostinwales wrote:Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.

He's very efficient at doing this, so don't take much of what he says very seriously.

As for the game there is a lot of Welsh talking themselves up and England (and everyone else) talking England down. Both teams are currently lacking effective heavy duty ball carriers, and England for one haven't really worked out how to play without Billy yet.

I was pleased with the result on Sunday. The weather was awful in the first half and once it eased off, Wales put the ball through the hands and scored a few tries. Someone on here called it like a training match and I'd probably agree

However, I would still have England down as favourites on Saturday and all this bluster that Jones is coming out with regarding playing in Cardiff is moot as England won there two years ago.

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Post by Recwatcher16 on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:42 pm

A closed roof for a rugby game is a ridiculous idea.

I watched the Italy Wales game and was surprised how little progress was made by Wales over the gain line by their ball carriers. If they try that against this English side, they will have problems and their ponderous style will go backwards.
Hopefully Biggar is fit to play and the same back row appears out the tunnel.

Steve Walsh isn't playing, so I am confident as you can be when your side plays away from home....

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:42 pm

lostinwales wrote:Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.


I don't ever really get/buy this angle though.  I think it's become more of a shorthand for sport chat these days - like the use of the word 'Yeah' before comments in interviews:  "Yeah, we were mostly outplayed today", "Yeah... the boys are feeling down in the dressing room now."  "Yeah... No, you're completely wrong there is that assumption, mate"

What kind of attention does a 'mouthy/confrontational/wummy' coach actually take off his players?  I think over the course of a week the players that are going to be talked about in detail (either being lauded as the ones to watch or being castigated for being even chosen) still pick up plenty of comments and a mouthy coach doesn't ever really distract from that kind of debate.  There is far too many versions of the media there now for any coach to be effective in taking attention off the team.

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Post by lostinwales on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:49 pm

SecretFly wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.


I don't ever really get/buy this angle though.  I think it's become more of a shorthand for sport chat these days - like the use of the word 'Yeah' before comments in interviews:  "Yeah, we were mostly outplayed today", "Yeah... the boys are feeling down in the dressing room now."  "Yeah... No, you're completely wrong there is that assumption, mate"

What kind of attention does a 'mouthy/confrontational/wummy' coach actually take off his players?  I think over the course of a week the players that are going to be talked about in detail (either being lauded as the ones to watch or being castigated for being even chosen) still pick up plenty of comments and a mouthy coach doesn't ever really distract from that kind of debate.  There is far too many versions of the media there now for any coach to be effective in taking attention off the team.

But it is pretty simple. The sporting headlines for England rugby are JONES SPOUTS OFF AGAIN and then Kruis out injured, Mako back sometime soon

The effect as you can see on here is that we get a lot of 'wtf is EJ talking about' comments and very few about Kruis.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:52 pm

Ah lost. I'm not so sure that has any real meaning. 'Kruis out injured' gets to be known by any fan that actually is going to watch the game. They want to know what Jones is saying, for the entertainment - but they ain't dumb either; the other eye is on the team detail.

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Post by Guest on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 12:52 pm

lostinwales wrote:Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.

He's very efficient at doing this, so don't take much of what he says very seriously.

As for the game there is a lot of Welsh talking themselves up and England (and everyone else) talking England down. Both teams are currently lacking effective heavy duty ball carriers, and England for one haven't really worked out how to play without Billy yet.

Where? On here?! haven't seen it really. Some English talking Wales up and Welsh talking England up. But not a lot of Welsh talking Wales up.

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Post by munkian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 1:03 pm

Griff wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.

He's very efficient at doing this, so don't take much of what he says very seriously.

As for the game there is a lot of Welsh talking themselves up and England (and everyone else) talking England down. Both teams are currently lacking effective heavy duty ball carriers, and England for one haven't really worked out how to play without Billy yet.

Where?  On here?!  haven't seen it really.  Some English talking Wales up and Welsh talking England up.  But not a lot of Welsh talking Wales up.

Yeah, calling Fake News on that one, haven't seen a single Welsh person big Wales up.

Not seen an awful lot of people talk England down either, more of them talking England up, you are talking poopie kiss
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Post by dummy_half on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 1:04 pm

Griff wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.

He's very efficient at doing this, so don't take much of what he says very seriously.

As for the game there is a lot of Welsh talking themselves up and England (and everyone else) talking England down. Both teams are currently lacking effective heavy duty ball carriers, and England for one haven't really worked out how to play without Billy yet.

Where?  On here?!  haven't seen it really.  Some English talking Wales up and Welsh talking England up.  But not a lot of Welsh talking Wales up.

There are a few on here. Mostly though this seems pretty good-natured this year compared with the recent past. Maybe because neither set of fans is sure about their team at the moment: England were pretty poor against France and looked like a team missing 2 or 3 top players, while Wales were coming off a quite poor AI series and won with a 40 minute performance against what looks like the weakest team of the 6Ns this year. Also, it's an early contest this year, so the tournament is still taking shape - could turn out to be the GS decider or could be two mid-table sides.

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Post by munkian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 1:09 pm

dummy_half wrote:
Griff wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Worth mentioning AGAIN that Jones is very 'cute' with his comments. And what that does is take the attention off the team and on to him.

He's very efficient at doing this, so don't take much of what he says very seriously.

As for the game there is a lot of Welsh talking themselves up and England (and everyone else) talking England down. Both teams are currently lacking effective heavy duty ball carriers, and England for one haven't really worked out how to play without Billy yet.

Where?  On here?!  haven't seen it really.  Some English talking Wales up and Welsh talking England up.  But not a lot of Welsh talking Wales up.

There are a few on here. Mostly though this seems pretty good-natured this year compared with the recent past. Maybe because neither set of fans is sure about their team at the moment: England were pretty poor against France and looked like a team missing 2 or 3 top players, while Wales were coming off a quite poor AI series and won with a 40 minute performance against what looks like the weakest team of the 6Ns this year. Also, it's an early contest this year, so the tournament is still taking shape - could turn out to be the GS decider or could be two mid-table sides.

Where ?
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Post by Cyril on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:12 pm

miaow, Gwlad and rainbow-warrior (where are mikey and View?) all think Wales will win.

Are they representative of the Welsh or lone wolves?

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Post by Guest on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:32 pm

Neither Rainbow Warrior nor Gwlad have commented on this thread!

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Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:37 pm

Can Wales win, yes we can - Will we win, well if I could predict the future I'd pick the lottery numbers.

We have to make at 4 changes in my mind but not sure he will or not.

I'd start Evans and Francis in the front row bring Faletau onto the bench if they think he's fit enough. Would be tempted to start him but harsh on Moriarty.

I'd start Davies at 10 and swap Williams and Halfpenny around.
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Post by munkian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:40 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Can Wales win, yes we can - Will we win, well if I could predict the future I'd pick the lottery numbers.

We have to make at 4 changes in my mind but not sure he will or not.

I'd start Evans and Francis in the front row bring Faletau onto the bench if they think he's fit enough.  Would be tempted to start him but harsh on Moriarty.

I'd start Davies at 10 and swap Williams and Halfpenny around.

Same. Moriarty needs a much bigger game though - was knocked back a lot against Italy.
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Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:42 pm

Munkian,

Agreed there thought he was quiet and whilst I know you can use stats to prove almost anything he was our biggest tackler and one of our biggest carriers on the weekend.
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Post by munkian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:46 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Munkian,

Agreed there thought he was quiet and whilst I know you can use stats to prove almost anything he was our biggest tackler and one of our biggest carriers on the weekend.

Fair enough then, the first half must have put a negative spin on my world view Sad


Big question over North being fit, who do we go with if hes crocked ? I guess Biggar's fitness has a big say on this too.
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Post by No9 on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 2:56 pm

munkian wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Munkian,

Agreed there thought he was quiet and whilst I know you can use stats to prove almost anything he was our biggest tackler and one of our biggest carriers on the weekend.

Fair enough then, the first half must have put a negative spin on my world view Sad


Big question over North being fit, who do we go with if hes crocked ? I guess Biggar's fitness has a big say on this too.

Cuthbert..... NOOOOooooo!!!! Sad

...saying that he did score both trys in the 30-3 thumping of 2013. Last time Howley was in charge.. Omens there. Maybe ... no what am I saying .. steam

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Post by True Raven on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:01 pm

Simon Thomas of Wales Online did a Q&A session today and one of the questions was who would play if North was injured.

His response would be Cuthbert because he has more international experience than Steff Evans, was raging reading it because if you pick someone purely on experience and not form then he may as well pick Shane Williams who has far more international experience than Cuthbert

How any coach in the world could pick Cuthbert as an international winger right now is beyond me

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Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:05 pm

http://www.punditarena.com/rugby/across/an-alternative-england-xv-to-face-wales-on-saturday/

Interesting alternative XV suggested. I can see the logic for the selections.

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Post by munkian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:08 pm

True Raven wrote:Simon Thomas of Wales Online did a Q&A session today and one of the questions was who would play if North was injured.

His response would be Cuthbert because he has more international experience than Steff Evans, was raging reading it because if you pick someone purely on experience and not form then he may as well pick Shane Williams who has far more international experience than Cuthbert

How any coach in the world could pick Cuthbert as an international winger right now is beyond me

Its almost as though he should've blooded younger players during the AIs.

I think Hewitt is a potential talent but wouldn't throw him against England for his first cap.

You could have Liam and Halfpence on the wings and Davies at FB if Biggar is fit but then I'd worry about him as the last line of defense.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:23 pm

Clifford was very good in the friendly prior to Australia albeit at 8. He's unlikely to be considered if Jones feels Haskell is lacking fitness though if have thought.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:39 pm

munkian wrote:
True Raven wrote:Simon Thomas of Wales Online did a Q&A session today and one of the questions was who would play if North was injured.

His response would be Cuthbert because he has more international experience than Steff Evans, was raging reading it because if you pick someone purely on experience and not form then he may as well pick Shane Williams who has far more international experience than Cuthbert

How any coach in the world could pick Cuthbert as an international winger right now is beyond me

Its almost as though he should've blooded younger players during the AIs.

I think Hewitt is a potential talent but wouldn't throw him against England for his first cap.

You could have Liam and Halfpence on the wings and Davies at FB if Biggar is fit but then I'd worry about him as the last line of defense.


I'd put Steff Evans in, Yes, it would be his senior debut, but he'd have plenty of familiar faces around him in Liam Williams, Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. Plus he's playing far better than Cuthbert is.

We need to shake this timidity we have. Youth shouldn't be seen as a weakness. If he's good enough, put him in the team.

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Post by True Raven on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:46 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:
True Raven wrote:Simon Thomas of Wales Online did a Q&A session today and one of the questions was who would play if North was injured.

His response would be Cuthbert because he has more international experience than Steff Evans, was raging reading it because if you pick someone purely on experience and not form then he may as well pick Shane Williams who has far more international experience than Cuthbert

How any coach in the world could pick Cuthbert as an international winger right now is beyond me

Its almost as though he should've blooded younger players during the AIs.

I think Hewitt is a potential talent but wouldn't throw him against England for his first cap.

You could have Liam and Halfpence on the wings and Davies at FB if Biggar is fit but then I'd worry about him as the last line of defense.


I'd put Steff Evans in, Yes, it would be his senior debut, but he'd have plenty of familiar faces around him in Liam Williams, Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. Plus he's playing far better than Cuthbert is.

We need to shake this timidity we have. Youth shouldn't be seen as a weakness. If he's good enough, put him in the team.

This is all that should ever be taken into account when discussing a replacement for North

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 3:50 pm

The Alex Cuthbert of 2013 is unavailable for selection.

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Post by Breadvan on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 4:05 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The Alex Cuthbert of 2013 is unavailable for selection.

Laugh ...and England won't play Wood at 8, Brown on the wing and Goode at FB.
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Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 4:16 pm

Breadvan wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:The Alex Cuthbert of 2013 is unavailable for selection.

Laugh ...and England won't play Wood at 8, Brown on the wing and Goode at FB.


You are so correct there. Erm

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Post by Steffan on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 4:26 pm

I think Wales have a chance. I know we are rubbish and England are supposed to be this a mighty all powerful world beating team... I think if play ok in the first half we have a chance Wales

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Post by RiscaGame on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 5:09 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
munkian wrote:
True Raven wrote:Simon Thomas of Wales Online did a Q&A session today and one of the questions was who would play if North was injured.

His response would be Cuthbert because he has more international experience than Steff Evans, was raging reading it because if you pick someone purely on experience and not form then he may as well pick Shane Williams who has far more international experience than Cuthbert

How any coach in the world could pick Cuthbert as an international winger right now is beyond me

Its almost as though he should've blooded younger players during the AIs.

I think Hewitt is a potential talent but wouldn't throw him against England for his first cap.

You could have Liam and Halfpence on the wings and Davies at FB if Biggar is fit but then I'd worry about him as the last line of defense.


I'd put Steff Evans in, Yes, it would be his senior debut, but he'd have plenty of familiar faces around him in Liam Williams, Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies. Plus he's playing far better than Cuthbert is.

We need to shake this timidity we have. Youth shouldn't be seen as a weakness. If he's good enough, put him in the team.

Amen

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Post by nathan on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 5:09 pm

munkian wrote:They have the biggest player pool and richest union in the world. It's their's to lose.


Quantity doesn't always mean Quality

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Post by Poorfour on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 5:22 pm

Steffan wrote:I think Wales have a chance. I know we are rubbish and England are supposed to be this a mighty all powerful world beating team... I think if play ok in the first half we have a chance Wales

Wales always have a good chance playing England at home. To exploit it, they'll probably need to build up a sizeable lead. If they're 15 points up at any point, England will probably find that too much to claw back, but England have come back from 10 point deficits quite a few times recently.

Eddie's use of the bench makes a huge difference. He made a big mistake last year bringing a not match fit Manu on and allowing Wales to win back the momentum. I doubt he will make that mistake again.

The key England weak spot is likely to be if he persists with Itoje and Ford in the starting XV. Itoje doesn't provide Robshaw's cover defence, and Ford's channel is therefore easier to attack. Itoje and Farrell would be less of an issue, as would Wood and Ford - but to start with Farrell would mean also starting with Care to have any dynamism in attack, and starting with Wood at 6 would mean Itoje at 7 (possible as a stop gap) or Harrison at 7 (risky?). Haskell is apparently not fit enough to play 60 minutes yet.

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Post by Winzer on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 5:35 pm

England clearly favourites for this. If the coaching teams were the other way round, Wales would likely be favourites.

For me, to have a chance Wales have to play Sam Davies. He's a bit raw, and tries too hard at times, but Marco Bortolami summed up what turned the Italy game for Wales at the time - Sam Davies playing flat took the sting out of the rush defence and gave the Welsh backs a chance to play and a better chance of winning the collisions. I'd have him on from the start, there's not much to be gained from battering away without purpose for the first half.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 5:39 pm

I just hope we're not dumb enough to kick away good counter-attacking ball. France made so much ground running it back. England will have been working on their kick-chase, but if it's poor again, it would be criminal not to capitalise on it. Liam Williams could have a field day.

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Post by doctor_grey on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 5:50 pm

The moment I can say with certainty how a match between Wales and England will turn out is the time my few remaining brain cells will have gone on siesta. Both teams were underwhelming for long stretches last weekend, so both have a lot to work to do.

I know the goal posts in Cardiff are nervously awaiting Haskell's return.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 5:54 pm

I hope they haven't invited DJ Spoony back.

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Post by englandglory4ever on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 6:51 pm

You lot are being way too polite to each other. England will win this at a canter. People are being too dismissive of France they were very big and very good. As long as France stay in the competition mentally and don't give up they will probably win their remaining matches quite easily.

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Post by Gwlad on Tue 07 Feb 2017, 7:05 pm

I think North will be fit. His injury - a haematoma- is essentially a blood clot or deep bruising, and did not look serious in terms of loss of function as he ran in a 60 metre try, but obviously it was very painful. He is young, with physio/cryo and rest for a couple of days i expect he will be fine. Squad meets up about now so we should know by tomorrow night i expect.

But if he isn't Howler will of course go with Egbert. If he is in the squad its because they still think he has a part to play and they aren't going to debut Evans in this game if none of the 7 even made the bench in Rome.

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