A combined top 6 team

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Post by Hero on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 9:28 am

On the v2 football podcast last night we started discussing the current Liverpool team, the form they’re in this year and then if actually it’s just because man for man their first XI isn’t actually that great, would genuinely any of their team make it into a combined Top 6 first XI? Most people recognise Coutinho as the best player in the Liverpool team but would he be ahead of De Bruyne/Alli/Ozil etc?
So I wanted to know if you had to create a first XI using players only from the current top 6 teams (Chelsea/Spurs/Man City/Arsenal/Liverpool/Man Utd) who would you pick.
To make it uniform across all teams then please make it in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

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Post by Just John on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 10:35 am

-----------------------------DE GEA-------------------------
VALENCIA------ALDERWEIRELD--KOSCIELNY--------ROSE
----------------------KANTE-------MATIC-------------------
--DE BRUYNE---------------ALLI------------------HAZARD
-----------------------------COSTA-------------------------

funny, i got no chelsea defenders because the wingbacks aren't that great in all honesty, they just suit the system. the back three (cesar/luiz/cahill) are heavily protected by kante/matic, but i wouldnt call any of them world class or better individually than alderweireld or koscielny. valencia been the best RB for me this season, no body done a better job than rose either. de gea is still the no. 1 in the PL. a midfield duo of kante (best holding midfielder) & matic could be a title winner in two of last three years. arsenal & city have no central midfield, united just have carrick & the potential of pogba, tottenham only have dembele & wanyama, none of which standout. liverpool have no standout CM. Hazard & Costa self-explanatory. Alli is my choice for no. 10.

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Post by Holymiky on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 10:49 am

I know it sounds obvious to disagree as im a Chelsea fan but I still think Courtois is better than De Gea.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 10:51 am

He isn't.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 10:57 am

De Gea
Azpi Luiz Alderweireld Monreal 
Kante Pogba
Sanchez Hazard Mane
Costa


Really hard though

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Post by Holymiky on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 10:58 am

He is.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 11:01 am

He really really isn't.

The formation is an odd one as it makes picking Luiz impossible to pick despite excelling in the back 5, he's too much of a liability in a back four.

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Post by Afro on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 11:17 am


De Gea
Bellerin---Alderweireld---Koscielny---Azpilicueta
Kante---Dembele
Sanchez------Coutinho------Hazard
Aguero



Last edited by Afro on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 12:34 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : changed my mind on Kante instead of Pogba.)
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Post by Fernando on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 11:22 am

De Gea
Luiz -- Alderweireld -- Azpilicueta
Valencia -- Dembele ------- Kante---Rose
Coutinho ---- Hazard
Alexis 

Could easily swap out Coutinho for Costa but forward wise its down to what you prefer atm since not much between them.

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Post by MIG on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 11:26 am

Chelsea - 3, Spurs - 4, City - 1, Arsenal - 2, Liverpool - 0, Utd - 1

De Gea
Bellerin  Alderweireld  Koscielny  Rose
Kante  Dembele
De Bruyne Alli Hazard
Costa

Usually would go with Aguero all day long but Costa is surely the better player on current form.

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Post by Afro on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 12:04 pm

MIG's is a valid point. I have ignored short term form completely
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Post by VDT on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 12:26 pm

GK - De Gea
RB - Azpilicueta
CB - Koscielny
CB - Alderweireld
LB - Rose
CM - Kante
CM - Dembele
AM - Hazard
AM - Alli
AM - Sanchez
ST - Costa


Last edited by VDT on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:31 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Hero on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 12:48 pm

Asked this on a different site as well so have now had a total of 10 responses.

So of a possible pool of 110 choices it breaks it down as:

Chelsea: 39
Spurs: 24
Arsenal: 19
Utd: 16
City: 9
Liverpool: 3

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Post by MIG on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 1:05 pm

Are there any players outside the top 6 that could break into these XIs?

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Post by Afro on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 1:16 pm

MIG wrote:Are there any players outside the top 6 that could break into these XIs?

Van Dijk and Coleman are the only two potentially that spring to mind
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Post by Fernando on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 1:19 pm

On Current Form you'd have to look at the PL top scorer Romelu Lukaku.

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Post by BamBam on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 2:25 pm

Hero wrote:Asked this on a different site as well so have now had a total of 10 responses.

So of a possible pool of 110 choices it breaks it down as:

Chelsea: 39
Spurs: 24
Arsenal: 19
Utd: 16
City: 9
Liverpool: 3

How many of those have Courtois ahead of De Gea Run

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Post by Afro on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 2:40 pm

Hero wrote:Asked this on a different site as well so have now had a total of 10 responses.

So of a possible pool of 110 choices it breaks it down as:

Chelsea: 39
Spurs: 24
Arsenal: 19
Utd: 16
City: 9
Liverpool: 3

Did you post it on JA606? If so, I can predict their side is....

Schmeichel
Neville---Stam---Ferdinand---Cole
Keane---Vieira
Beckham---Gerrard---Giggs
Henry
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Post by BamBam on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 2:43 pm

Afro wrote:
Hero wrote:Asked this on a different site as well so have now had a total of 10 responses.

So of a possible pool of 110 choices it breaks it down as:

Chelsea: 39
Spurs: 24
Arsenal: 19
Utd: 16
City: 9
Liverpool: 3

Did you post it on JA606? If so, I can predict their side is....

Schmeichel
Neville---Stam---Ferdinand---Cole
Keane---Vieira
Beckham---Gerrard---Giggs
Henry

What kind of utter idiots would put Gerrard in their team?!

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 4:17 pm

It's interesting because I see Liverpool as much more of a team, built into an ethos and working as a collective. 

Outside the top six? Van Dijk, Lukaku, Reid. Question marks on all.

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Post by JDizzle on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 6:12 pm

Costa is good at what he does i.e. just get the ball in the net and make life a nightmare for defenders, whether that being with his physicality or his movement - which is very underrated imo. But he is limited in that his control and passing can be very poor. I would take Sanchez pretty much every day.

Matic is also pretty limited. I'd rather someone with a bit more ability all the ball next to a Kante, but Chelsea's defence is still shaky so the shield is the priority, but in a Team of the Top Six I think you can show some more ambition.

And Luiz has been the best centre half in the league this year for me, has to be in - regardless of formation.

De Gea, Azpi, Luiz, Alderweireld, Rose, Kante, Dembele, Hazard, Alli, KDB, Sanchez.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 09 Feb 2017, 7:42 pm

Can't have that. Costa's play with Hazard hasn't been of a simple footballer. Especially if you're gonna put Alli in the midfield when you could have Sanchez there and Costa up top

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Post by Hero on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:21 am

De GeaDe GeaDe GeaDe GeaDe GeaCourtoisCourtoisDe GeaDe GeaDe Gea
ValenciaAzpilicuetaBellerinValenciaBellerinWalkerValenciaBellerinBellerinAzpilicueta
AlderweireldAlderweireldAlderweireldAlderweireldAlderweireldLuizAlderweireldKoscielny Koscielny Koscielny 
Koscielny LuizKoscielny LuizKoscielny AzpilicuetaLuizAlderweireldBaillyAlderweireld
RoseMonrealAzpilicuetaAzpilicuetaRoseRoseRoseAzpilicuetaAzpilicuetaRose
KanteKanteDembeleKanteKanteKanteKanteKanteKanteKante
MaticPogbaPogbaDembeleDembeleWanyamaAlliPogbaPogbaDembele
De BruyneSanchezSanchezRoseDe BruyneDe BruynePedroSanchezSanchezSanchez
AlliManeCoutinhoCoutinhoAlliSanchezDe BruyneAlliDe BruyneDe Bruyne
HazardHazardHazardHazardHazardHazardHazardHazardHazardHazard
CostaCostaAgueroSanchezCostaCostaSanchezAgueroAgueroCosta

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Post by Hero on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:21 am

De GeaDe Gea
BellerinAzpilicueta
Koscielny Koscielny 
BaillyAlderweireld
AzpilicuetaRose
KanteKante
PogbaDembele
SanchezSanchez
De BruyneDe Bruyne
HazardHazard
AgueroCosta

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Post by VDT on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:38 am

Combined Team so far is:
GK - De Gea - 17 picks
RB - Azpilicueta - 13
CB - Koscielny - 12
CB - Alderweireld - 16
LB - Rose - 11
CM - Kante - 17
CM - Dembele - 10
AM - Hazard - 18
AM - De Bruyne - 10
AM - Sanchez - 13
ST - Costa - 10
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 11:23 am

Just changed my mind, forgot Fernandinho. I'd have him next to Kante, not Pogba.

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Post by Born Slippy on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 11:49 am

De Gea

Walker
Alderweireld
Bailly
Rose

Kante
Dembele

Sanchez
De Bruyne
Hazard

Costa

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Post by Afro on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 3:12 pm

An interesting aside to this based on Mersons opinion that only Sanchez, out of the Arsenal team, would get into Spurs best XI

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/10761631/alexis-sanchez-only-arsenal-player-that-would-make-tottenhams-best-xi-says-paul-merson

He's not too far from the truth. I'd have Kos and Bellerin too and possibly Ozil
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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 3:28 pm

It's a toss up on a few, and I think Monreal would be my choice over Rose, but you can't argue that they have a better base in midfield and defence. Their spine is far better

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Post by 88Chris05 on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 4:53 pm

On this season's form....

Courtois
Moses - Alderweireld - David Luiz - Rose
Dembele - Kanté
Hazard - Alli - Sanchez
Costa

Overall....

De Gea
Bellerin - Alderweireld - Koscielny - Rose
Dembele - Kanté
Hazard - Silva - Sanchez
Aguero
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Post by Crimey on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 6:05 pm

De Gea

Clyne - Alderweireld - Vertonghen - Monreal

Kante - - Dembele

Sanchez - - De Bruyne - - Hazard

Costa

On individual form I don't think any Liverpool players are the best in their positions, but I do think that the team as a whole is generally quite good. One poor January and everybody decides differently. I also think Henderson is probably the most underrated Liverpool player right now, I definitely would have him every single day over Matic who is only back to form this year because Kante can basically run for him as well. 

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 10 Feb 2017, 10:24 pm

Crimey wrote:
I also think Henderson is probably the most underrated Liverpool player right now, I definitely would have him every single day over Matic who is only back to form this year because Kante can basically run for him as well. 

Over. Its spelt "overrated."

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Post by Afro on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 9:16 am

I remember watching an u21 game at Bristol several years ago and being an Everton fan was trying to keep a particular eye on Rodwell.

Thought he was superb and running the game until I realised my eyesight was failing and I'd been tracking Henderson by accident.

Henderson is one of those players that does things that are important but not things that they highlight on MOTD.

Hugely under rated in my opinion, and I don't lavish praise on Liverpool players easily!
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Post by Crimey on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 10:53 am

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Crimey wrote:
I also think Henderson is probably the most underrated Liverpool player right now, I definitely would have him every single day over Matic who is only back to form this year because Kante can basically run for him as well. 

Over. Its spelt "overrated."

I don't know how that's possible, most fans slag him off and pundits very rarely highlight him. He's a good player who's unfortunately still suffering the reputation from his first poor season and being seen playing for England which does nothing for any player's reputation. I actually think he's Liverpool's best player, at least in the current system he's the player that is missed the most. He's essentially been playing as a two man pivot alone this season and been doing a good job of it, and this is a totally new role for him.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 11:30 am

Depends who you're talking about. He gets mentioned a lot, let alone how much you overrate him Crimey.

He's a solid, unspectacular hard worker. Interesting that you bemoan Matic' being picked as he's protected by their system whilst failing to see how Henderson is protected by yours, whilst ignoring that his inability to protect your defence may well be why it is so awful. 

He's not good enough at one specific thing, and whilst I see his place in the Liverpool side, he will need a better player than him alongside him for Liverpool to achieve more of where their ambitions lay.

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Post by Crimey on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 12:19 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Depends who you're talking about. He gets mentioned a lot, let alone how much you overrate him Crimey.

He's a solid, unspectacular hard worker. Interesting that you bemoan Matic' being picked as he's protected by their system whilst failing to see how Henderson is protected by yours, whilst ignoring that his inability to protect your defence may well be why it is so awful. 

He's not good enough at one specific thing, and whilst I see his place in the Liverpool side, he will need a better player than him alongside him for Liverpool to achieve more of where their ambitions lay.

What rubbish. 

How on earth is he protected by the system? He's sometimes the only player shielding the defence, with both full backs pushed on and everybody else attacking meaning there are 7 attacking players. How is that protected? Especially compared to Matic in Chelsea's system who has three centre backs behind him, Kante running around beside him and then Alonso is more left back than left winger. He's incredibly protected.

He's not good at one specific thing, but he's definitely good at most aspects of the game and that's what makes him such a good player and it's hard to replace him without signing a player who is too specific in his skills. I agree he needs better players around him, but "alongside him"? The way Liverpool have played all season means there is no player playing alongside him. The fact that you didn't notice that makes me wonder how much of him this season you've seen to be able to come to the conclusions you come to?

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 1:49 pm

Its cos you're blind to it. It definitely should be much easier for him as a midfielder with a hardworking team of players in front of him doing retrieval work that a lot of attackers dont do. He's a little bit behind a group of players who, once they lose the ball, have the basic goal of stopping it getting to Bumble crabbing across midfield.

No player alongside him at all then? Wij and Can been playing with him at times, had at least one. The Chelsea win? Wijnaldum there. United draw? Can in there. Neither are attacking players. Can definitely more defensive. Wijnaldum hasnt been played as what the FM style would call an "AM."

Fact is, Henderson should be smart enough to be a bit deeper, but he isnt. His awareness is poor, his touch is poor, and you are making up defences for him. You've even put it out there now that Milner and Clyne are actually attacking players,

He DEFINITELY needs a better player alongside him, and I don't mean better players as in just more skilled than the current players, I mean a player better than him, because he isn't quite good enough at anything to make the position his own.

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Post by Crimey on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 2:29 pm

A combined top 6 team Bc0c0a10

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Post by Crimey on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 2:36 pm

That's the only one I can find right now but looking across every game this season, that will be the position map you will find. We're playing a 4-3-3 with one deep midfielder (Henderson) and two of Lallana, Can and Wijnaldum playing further forward. They are definitely not playing beside Henderson who will often drop back between the two centre backs whilst the two central midfielders will push into the box. 

Not to mention both Clyne and Milner are pushed much further ahead than Henderson and in fact in Milner's case, ahead of nearly everybody. Hardly a traditional left back is it?

I'm not making this all up to defend Henderson, it's just a fact that the system he's playing in offers him very little protection and he's done very well in it. His awareness is good, hence why he has more tackles than every other player in the league (bar Gueye) just ahead of Kante. He's also got four assists, despite playing deeper and not taking set pieces, so he's certainly got vision. You're the one making things up to fit your view of Henderson.

He's Liverpool's most key player, most talented? No, but definitely the most key, he's the player most missed. The reason for that is because there is nobody else in Liverpool's squad capable of playing that position as well and I'd argue not many players in the league who can do it. He's been playing in this deeper position for around 6 months and yet is thriving, that constitutes a good player for me and the fact that you are so desperate to say he isn't, despite evidence to the contrary shows exactly why he is underrated.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 2:38 pm

Proved all of nothing. Unless you took alongside him to be a literal preposition, to which point I would laugh.

The full backs get up and down, Clyne is just a wider midfielder in that image (by god, that would surely help Hendo?!) and youve shown a game where he has more central midfield support from Can and Wijnaldum!

Sorry, this is a pointless argument. Nowhere near as entertaining as West Brom and Stoke's feud either. Until I call up Hendo and leave a voicemail to tell him hes a "loser" then I've got nothing on Tony Pulis.

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Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 2:41 pm

If Henderson is your key player you won't be achieving anything any time soon.

These average position maps mean bugger all and is again such a lazy argument, people aren't stupid they do watch football and understand it.

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Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 11 Feb 2017, 2:41 pm

You have ignored the points and made your own definition for what protected means, whilst also ignoring that the protection of your defence is the worst part of Liverpool's game if the attacking players dont work. The problem in your recent run has been the attacking players arent maintaining and it aint working as well.

Most key? Mane.

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