England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

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England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Recwatcher16 on Sun 12 Feb 2017, 10:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Looks like Mako Vunipola will be available for the Italy game, with George, Sinkler, Haskell and Teo all starting. Billy Vunipola on schedule for the Irish game, although I will believe that when I see it, given his injury. Watson will also now be ready for Italian game and- is this the game for Brown to be 'rested' ?

I can see Clifford, Haskell & Hughes being a more balanced back row with Itoje moving forward, although how EJ would choose between Launchbury & Lawes is anyone's guess. Looking further forward and slightly left field, a Hughes, Haskell and Vunipola combo for the Irish game ?

I like the look of Teo whose running lines look top notch and if Hartley is benched clearly Farrell will be at ten with the armband, with Ford perhaps as the impact FH when bodies start to tire.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/02/12/billy-mako-vunipola-set-give-england-six-nations-grand-slam/

Ps. The internet link above is not the full title of the article, before anyone jumps on it.......

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:24 am

Is there anybody on these boards you don't wind up BS?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:25 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Is there anybody on these boards you don't wind up BS?
Yeah I like his posts.
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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:51 am


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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Poorfour on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:54 am

beshocked wrote:People are worrying about too many changes but let's be honest we should rack up a big win vs Italy.

This is a good game to try out new players and give starts to those with none. I know no 7 & 1/2 thinks England are still inexperienced. I disagree.

I think that's quite a dangerous assumption. Wales - who, let's remember, England narrowly beat two weeks ago - failed to get the bonus point against Italy with a team that was close to the strongest they put out. Ireland already have a bonus point and a big margin in the bag. England are unlikely to lose, but too much experimentation risks missing out on a bonus point that could be important on the final weekend.

Eddie has displayed a lot of consistency and continuity in selection, but I think he's done so for different reasons than Lancaster. Lancaster was trying to build a squad with enough experience but kept having to start from scratch because of injuries (and then undermined himself with a number of big gambles in the RWC that didn't come off).

As a result, Eddie inherited a good pool of experienced players, which gives him a bit more room for experimentation. But he's trying to introduce a new system, and he's also had to cope with a hefty injury list (off the top of my head: Marler, Mako, Launchbury, Lawes, Robshaw, Haskell, Williams, Jones, arguably Underhill, Billy, Tuilagi, Watson, May, Slade, Nowell have all had periods of injury).

In elite team sports, familiarity breeds trust and trust breeds performance. Wholesale change undermines that, particularly in attack. Ideally, you aim for continuity with a couple of changes at a time for form or injury. The big exception in NH schedules is Lions tours, which force them to try out new players in a touring context. I always look forward to England's games in Argentina in a Lions year.

I'd also make the point that being on an Eddie Jones bench isn't the consolation prize that it would be with some other coaches. His finishers are selected to play a specific role at a specific point in the game, as evidenced by England outscoring their opponents by 80+ points in the final quarter over the last year. I think it's actually quite likely that George is on the bench because he is the hooker best suited to what Eddie wants from a hooker in that phase of the game.

Another way of looking at it is this: George is probably the better hooker in either phase of the game. But I think most of us would agree that Hartley doesn't have as much potential impact as a finisher, except on the heads of unsuspecting Irishmen. So George then Hartley would lose something compared to Hartley then George. So until another candidate comes through, or injury (or suspension) forces a change, I think Eddie will stick with Hartley as a starter.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:59 am

Poorfour, that 80+ point difference in the last quarter is fascinating. Can I ask where you got the info?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:07 am

cascough wrote:Poorfour, that 80+ point difference in the last quarter is fascinating. Can I ask where you got the info?

Knowing P4's reputation and attention to detail, he accessed each game and buit a tracking spreadsheet.


either that or he heard a throwaway comment on a Brian Moore podcast Very Happy

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:10 am

Well yes no 7 & 1/2 when you have 3 of your most experienced backrowers not starting of course there's going to be a lack of experience.... Haskell coming back into the starting line up would shore up this area.

Well we don't want Hartley not having some game time. 20 minutes off the bench will also help test him as a finisher.

cascough it's because Lancaster didn't make the necessary changes and paid the price.

I understand the point. You don't change the captain mid tournament because England are winning - that's what some would say. My point is change is needed if England are going to continue to win.

You need to in my opinion pick the best players to win.

I think England need to change captain yes and my choice would be Haskell.

Captains in my opinion need to be guaranteed starters.

Poorfour I don't think it's really that crazy to start players who have done well off the bench.

Let's be honest I am not the only fan who knows England must improve if they are to beat Ireland.

That means changes vs Italy to prepare for Scotland and Ireland.

Does anyone really think certain players have played well in the tournament so far? I don't.

Hartley hasn't been used as finisher so he's not really been tested in this area.


Look at Haskell, he's been good as a finisher and starter but you basically want him to have as many minutes as possible.

Personally I want the players I think are the best playing the most minutes.

Finishers have done well but it's meant we've been chasing the game not leading.

Much prefer to defend a lead than chase one down as chasing can lead to forcing the play.

Look at Ireland, as good as they are, Scotland built a healthy lead and won the game.


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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:12 am

So just confirm that for me without all the other waffle...

You would drop and change your captain of a winning side mid tournament?

What effect do you think this would have on the camp?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:24 am

beshocked wrote:I think England need to change captain yes and my choice would be Haskell.  

Captains in my opinion need to be guaranteed starters.
Guaranteed starters like Hartley and not Haskell?
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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by kingelderfield on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:33 am

Do not discount Hartley's experience. This will be most prominent in Dublin.

Can anyone realistically suggest a better 10/12 than Ford/Farrell? I've considered Farrell/Malinder and obviously have championed Cipriani but we all know he'll never be considered. So what we have to do is understand is how our midfield works to enable the potential potency of our back 3?

So given that conundrum do you change both the midfield and the back 3 or one or other only? I suggest the back 3 only, however with Watson's lack of form it does add an extra variable.

Basically we have to drop Brown to introduce a strike running full back who genuinely links with the backline.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:36 am

kingelderfield wrote:I've considered Farrell/Malinder
Mallinder can't defend. Lets park that one.
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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:38 am

Miles off being ready.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by kingelderfield on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:39 am

The next captain is Itoje.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:40 am

You're right Scott we should be having a caveat that it's only Italy but I still think it's easier to judge new(er) players when they're alongside established starters.

Thanks beshocked truth finally that Hartley doesn't need game time it's just you feel George is the better player and we won't lose out with the loss of the captain as we have Haskell (though Farrell would captain).

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by kingelderfield on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:42 am

Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I've considered Farrell/Malinder
Mallinder can't defend. Lets park that one.

Inexperienced as he was/is, the injury has also knocked him though the potential is still there.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:43 am

Kingelderfield I quite like the idea of a strike runner at 15, and would be pretty happy with Watson or Daly there. But I'm also not in a rush to get rid of Brown.

I'd like to see him discover some of his dangerous running that he put in in 2014 but he is still consistently breaking that first tackle. More often than not when he fields a kick his first thought is to run it back. He usually manages to make enough ground and stay on his feet long enough that means we can recycle the ball and get straight back on the attack. I don't think he gets enough credit for this.

Also as well as being a pretty good defender, he is actually a bit of a nuisance over the ball and has won more than his fair share of turnovers for a back, again something that perhaps he doesn't get credited for enough. Jones has also named him a vice captain so don't underestimate what he is bringing off the field.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:43 am

kingelderfield wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I've considered Farrell/Malinder
Mallinder can't defend. Lets park that one.

Inexperienced as he was/is, the injury has also knocked him though the potential is still there.
Great talent, but getting woefully exposed at prem level let alone international.
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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:04 am

Mallinder missed 5 tackles against us at the weekend, he's nowhere near ready for Int rugby.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:05 am

kingelderfield really? Hartley hasn't exactly had happy experiences when facing the Irish - a few of his bans have been against them.

Farrell/Teo is something I'd be interested to try vs Italy. Farrell's playmaking is superior to what it was when he first came on the scene. Ford looks short on confidence but a cameo off the bench vs a tired Italy might suit him better.

Teo has brought hard carrying and I think England have missed someone in the midfield who can do that.

Combine Care with Farrell - this half back pairing has worked well in the past.

scottrf which flanker is outplaying Haskell? Haskell's place in the starting line up I'd say is more secure yes.

Haskell has become one of the most valuable players under Jones and co - the transformation of his form compared to under Lancaster has been remarkable. I am talking about performance on the pitch primarily.


Brown has his strengths but I just think he lacks vision, he doesn't seem to see the players next to him to pass to.

I think the players who've struggled the most are Youngs,Ford,Hartley,Joseph and Brown but Joseph is the clear choice at 13 whilst all the others have strong alternatives, (okay maybe not Brown).

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:10 am

beshocked wrote:Scottrf which flanker is outplaying Haskell? Haskell's place in the starting line up I'd say is more secure yes.
Guy with 0 starts this 6 Nations is more secure in the starting lineup than the captain with 2? Interesting.
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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:25 am

Scottrf wrote:
beshocked wrote:Scottrf which flanker is outplaying Haskell? Haskell's place in the starting line up I'd say is more secure yes.
Guy with 0 starts this 6 Nations is more secure in the starting lineup than the captain with 2? Interesting.

Haskell has performed a lot better in the 6 nations than Hartley that's obvious even with less game time.

As you know he's only not been starting because he's been coming back from injury. He's been eased back in.

He's played a pretty crucial role. Even more so because Clifford didn't play well vs Wales and other flankers like Harrison and Wood haven't stepped up.



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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:28 am

And Itoje as yet. Be fair now.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by doctor_grey on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:31 am

Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:I've considered Farrell/Malinder
Mallinder can't defend. Lets park that one.

Inexperienced as he was/is, the injury has also knocked him though the potential is still there.
Great talent, but getting woefully exposed at prem level let alone international.
Agree. Prince Harry is just a kid. Give him time to develop his game.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:39 am

beshocked wrote:

I think the players who've struggled the most are Youngs,Ford,Hartley,Joseph and Brown but Joseph is the clear choice at 13 whilst all the others have strong alternatives, (okay maybe not Brown).
I thought that Daly was the clear contender at 13 for Joseph - although EJ seems to prefer him on the wing! Certainly paid off against Wales - and he has the wheels for wing.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:49 am

Although it was Cuthbert he left for dead! Daly offers a long range kicking option that no one else in the England squad does.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Poorfour on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:52 am

LondonTiger wrote:
cascough wrote:Poorfour, that 80+ point difference in the last quarter is fascinating. Can I ask where you got the info?

Knowing P4's reputation and attention to detail,  he accessed each game and buit a tracking spreadsheet.


either that or he heard a throwaway comment on a Brian Moore podcast Very Happy

This time it was in the Guardian, but it rings true. I think the only game where England have been outscored in the last year was Wales last year

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:35 pm

beshocked wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
beshocked wrote:Scottrf which flanker is outplaying Haskell? Haskell's place in the starting line up I'd say is more secure yes.
Guy with 0 starts this 6 Nations is more secure in the starting lineup than the captain with 2? Interesting.

Haskell has performed a lot better in the 6 nations than Hartley that's obvious even with less game time.

As you know he's only not been starting because he's been coming back from injury. He's been eased back in.

He's played a pretty crucial role. Even more so because Clifford didn't play well vs Wales and other flankers like Harrison and Wood haven't stepped up.


Saw Harrison in the flesh for the first time when we played saints on Sunday. He just looks so lightweight and just didn't impress me at all.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:56 pm

kingelderfield wrote:Do not discount Hartley's experience. This will be most prominent in Dublin.

Can anyone realistically suggest a better 10/12 than Ford/Farrell? I've considered Farrell/Malinder and obviously have championed Cipriani but we all know he'll never be considered. So what we have to do is understand is how our midfield works to enable the potential potency of our back 3?

So given that conundrum do you change both the midfield and the back 3 or one or other only? I suggest the back 3 only, however with Watson's lack of form it does add an extra variable.

Basically we have to drop Brown to introduce a strike running full back who genuinely links with the backline.

Farrell, Slade?
Farrell, Teo?
Chuck Norris, Geoff Boycotts Gran?


As for Cipriani ... he apparently is still in regular contact with Jones who reviews his games. Hes clearly still under consideration. Assuming Farrell goes and certainly if Ford does to Ciprianis pretty likely to tour Argentina....albeit apparenltty 4th choice currently behind Lokowski. But then if both Ford and Farrell were out Id see Cipriani as a player in a much better position to jump straight in as a starter even if the kid form Saracens is the one getting sent home early from training. Slade seems very settled a s a 12 rather than fly half now for club and country.

Is Watson lacking form or just time on the pitch post injury? Hes likely to get reintroduced from the bench.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by mid_gen on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 1:03 pm

What's EJ's track record on dealing with off-field hijinks? We know now why he's been out of the picture for the past couple of years with all the stripper abortion stuff coming out. Can't see him ever getting near an England shirt again to be honest.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 1:28 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
kingelderfield wrote:Do not discount Hartley's experience. This will be most prominent in Dublin.

Can anyone realistically suggest a better 10/12 than Ford/Farrell? I've considered Farrell/Malinder and obviously have championed Cipriani but we all know he'll never be considered. So what we have to do is understand is how our midfield works to enable the potential potency of our back 3?

So given that conundrum do you change both the midfield and the back 3 or one or other only? I suggest the back 3 only, however with Watson's lack of form it does add an extra variable.

Basically we have to drop Brown to introduce a strike running full back who genuinely links with the backline.

Farrell, Slade?
Farrell, Teo?
Chuck Norris, Geoff Boycotts Gran?


As for Cipriani ... he apparently is still in regular contact with Jones who reviews his games. Hes clearly still under consideration. Assuming Farrell goes and certainly if Ford does to Ciprianis pretty likely to tour Argentina....albeit apparenltty 4th choice currently behind Lokowski. But then if both Ford and Farrell were out Id see Cipriani as a player in a much better position to jump straight in as a starter even if the kid form Saracens is the one getting sent home early from training. Slade seems very settled a s a 12 rather than fly half now for club and country.

Is Watson lacking form or just time on the pitch post injury? Hes likely to get reintroduced from the bench.

Geoffrey Boycott's Nan is a reasonable shout. She's got good hands* and is defensively solid so it's a good move to put her in the 13 channel, however I'm not sure she's too well renowned for her attack. Plus, Geoffrey got that selfishness from somewhere so I question how much ball the wingers will receive.

*will she be allowed to use her pinny?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 1:35 pm

She can attack pretty well, so long as someone provides a stick of rhubarb.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by robbo277 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:23 pm

Poorfour wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
cascough wrote:Poorfour, that 80+ point difference in the last quarter is fascinating. Can I ask where you got the info?

Knowing P4's reputation and attention to detail,  he accessed each game and buit a tracking spreadsheet.


either that or he heard a throwaway comment on a Brian Moore podcast Very Happy

This time it was in the Guardian, but it rings true. I think the only game where England have been outscored in the last year was Wales last year

Calculated it using wikipedia and got +75. I didn't include scores in the 60th minute, and if a few of these have been misrecorded then it could sway it.

England average 8 points across the Eddie Jones era in the last 20, conceding 3 per game.

On 9 occasions out of 15, they've managed last quarter shut-outs, including twice this Six Nations.

The worst last quarter was against Wales, when England scored 6 points and conceded 14. No-one else has yet outscored them in the last period. In contrast, they've only been shut out once (Wales in May 2016).

England have been level in the last quarter four times (Scotland 2016: 3-3, Wales May 2016: 0-0, Australia 1st test: 10-10, South Africa AIs: 7-7). In the first instance England were closing out a close game, in the second replacements disrupted the flow of the game for both sides, and in the latter two England scored their try first to all but seal the win, with their opponents taking late consolations.

It's not all about the bench though, only 3 times have England been trailing going into the last quarter, in the third test against Australia and twice this Six Nations. On no occasion were they more than 5 points down on the opposition.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Poorfour on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:40 pm

Great analysis, robbo. I think it emphasises the point. Eddie picks his starters to have England in the game at 60, and his bench to finish it off.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:44 pm

Ooh it's all very positive. Makes me very giddy.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:46 pm

cascough wrote:Ooh it's all very positive. Makes me very giddy.

Salma Hayek's cleavage does that to me Run Hug

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:48 pm

What can I say, It's big strapping men for me.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:55 pm

Whatever floats your boat Wink

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by doctor_grey on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 8:10 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
cascough wrote:Ooh it's all very positive. Makes me very giddy.

Salma Hayek's cleavage does that to me Run  Hug
Lordy, a man could get lost in there and die happy.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 10:06 am

robbo277 wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:
cascough wrote:Poorfour, that 80+ point difference in the last quarter is fascinating. Can I ask where you got the info?

Knowing P4's reputation and attention to detail,  he accessed each game and buit a tracking spreadsheet.


either that or he heard a throwaway comment on a Brian Moore podcast Very Happy

This time it was in the Guardian, but it rings true. I think the only game where England have been outscored in the last year was Wales last year

Calculated it using wikipedia and got +75. I didn't include scores in the 60th minute, and if a few of these have been misrecorded then it could sway it.

England average 8 points across the Eddie Jones era in the last 20, conceding 3 per game.

On 9 occasions out of 15, they've managed last quarter shut-outs, including twice this Six Nations.

The worst last quarter was against Wales, when England scored 6 points and conceded 14. No-one else has yet outscored them in the last period. In contrast, they've only been shut out once (Wales in May 2016).

England have been level in the last quarter four times (Scotland 2016: 3-3, Wales May 2016: 0-0, Australia 1st test: 10-10, South Africa AIs: 7-7). In the first instance England were closing out a close game, in the second replacements disrupted the flow of the game for both sides, and in the latter two England scored their try first to all but seal the win, with their opponents taking late consolations.

It's not all about the bench though, only 3 times have England been trailing going into the last quarter, in the third test against Australia and twice this Six Nations. On no occasion were they more than 5 points down on the opposition.

It may also depend on when the "last year" starts form, as to whether certain games from the start of the last 6 nations are included or not.

The trend is pretty clear though. England finish games strongly, which mirrors the approach to tactics and training periodisation they make so much noise about. Its not just about whos on the bench that leads to their strong performance in the last 20.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Poorfour on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:12 pm

Gooseberry wrote:The trend is pretty clear though. England finish games strongly, which mirrors the approach to tactics and training periodisation they make so much noise about. Its not just about whos on the bench that leads to their strong performance in the last 20.

No, it's not just about who is on the bench. But one of the biggest differences between Eddie and Lancaster is the make-up of the bench. Lancaster's bench players skewed to "safety first" - players who would deliver a solid performance and give continuity to the gameplan but wouldn't be able to change a game - typified by,say, Wigglesworth. Eddie's bench players tend to be different in style to the starters.

The periodisation stuff is important in terms of having teams who are mentally sharp when under physical stress, but it seems to me that the biggest impact is from bringing on players who can ask different questions of tiring defences, rather than ones who don't add anything new other than fresh legs.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Poorfour on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:57 pm

By the way, interesting "second best" XV in the Telegraph today, assuming all players fit and well:

Telegraph England 2nd XV

Marler
George
Sinckler
Launchbury
Lawes
Clifford
Wood

Hughes
Care
Lozowski
May
Te'o
Slade
Yarde
Daly

Bold = players currently in the matchday XV
Italic = players currently in the XXIII

There's some inexperience there - but that's a remarkably strong side considering who isn't in it.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 12:59 pm

I appreciate that Mako is good ball in hand but I'd much rather have Marler in the team.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Poorfour on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 1:58 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I appreciate that Mako is good ball in hand but I'd much rather have Marler in the team.

Personally, I agree as long as we have other ball carriers in the team. Absent Billy and the Hask, I'd probably prefer to start with (a fully fit) Mako.

You could imagine a future in which England have the following on the field:
Mako - George - Sinckler
Launchbury - Lawes
Billy - Hughes - Haskell

Talk about carrying options... though in reality you'd want Robshaw to tidy up after the rest of them, and in time I expect we will have Clifford running off Billy or Mako's shoulder for the offload.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 3:19 pm

Poorfour wrote:By the way, interesting "second best" XV in the Telegraph today, assuming all players fit and well:

Telegraph England 2nd XV

Marler
George
Sinckler
Launchbury
Lawes
Clifford
Wood

Hughes
Care
Lozowski
May
Te'o
Slade
Yarde
Daly

Bold = players currently in the matchday XV
Italic = players currently in the XXIII

There's some inexperience there - but that's a remarkably strong side considering who isn't in it.

Except for backrow, fly half, wing and full back.

The more times I watch Yarde, the more times I wonder how on earth he can be in the England set up.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 4:34 pm

I felt the same about Alex Goode for about 4 years.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by BamBam on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 4:35 pm

Just 4?

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 4:47 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I felt the same about Alex Goode for about 4 years.

We've already established this. You don't watch much rugby..... Alex Goode did win AP player of the year and has generally been stellar at club level.

Compare this to Yarde who gets into the England squad regardless of how he performs.....

At least Yarde isn't England captain.... Whistle

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 5:07 pm

We are actually talking about England BS, not the AP.

At least Yarde has had a few good games, Goode just looked out of his depth for pretty much the whole time he was selected.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by beshocked on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:34 am

Sgt Poorly sadly Yarde hasn't been particularly good for England. Got defensively torn to shreds by the ABs, not that surprising admittedly but still other wings were treated harsher. His defence is poor.

He looked good in a basically dead rubber tour vs Argentina. He's been dropped because he's not good enough. Seems to get physically overpowered most times I watch him play.

Alex Goode in contrast played well in one of England's only away wins vs Ireland in recent years and he did fine in the victory over the ABs.

Not sure I can call Yarde overrated though because you seem to be one of the only people to highly rate him.

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

Post by BamBam on Thu 23 Feb 2017, 9:36 am

Mentioning that a player gets physically overpowered then praising Alex Goode in the same sentence seems the definition of an oxymoron 

Other wings who have been treated more harshly .. would that be a Mr Ashton? You can stop backing him now BS, he's leaving Saracens  Hug

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Re: England team changes for the rest of Six Nations

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