Ulster 2016/2017

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Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:43 am

First topic message reminder :

And it's been confirmed

Ulster Rugby has today announced that Jono Gibbes will join the Province as Head Coach ahead of the 2017/18 season, having signed a two-year contract.

  The former New Zealand player is currently Forwards Coach at French giants ASM Clermont Auvergne and he previously held a similar position at Leinster Rugby.

Gibbes joined Leinster in 2008, helping the squad to win three Heineken Cup titles during a six-year spell in Dublin. The first of those successes came under the stewardship of Michael Cheika in 2009, before he assisted Joe Schmidt in the 2011 and 2012 triumphs.

He moved to France in 2014 and was part of a coaching set-up that guided Clermont to the Top 14 and Champions Cup finals in his debut season.

In addition to his expertise in forward play, the 40-year-old has also gained valuable experience in coaching other aspects of the game, such as attack, during his stints at Leinster and Clermont.

Gibbes said that there were many contributing factors in his move back to Ireland:

"The respect that I have for Les (Kiss), as a coach and as a person, was one of my main reasons for making this decision. He really sold his vision of where he wants to take Ulster over the next few years.

"Ulster is a team that I know well, having come up against them on a number of occasions. The Clermont-Ulster games this season gave me an insight into the strengths of the squad and it's exciting to think that I'll be part of that environment from next season.

"With 6 years at Leinster and 3 years at Clermont in the Top 14, I've been afforded many different experiences, working with some very talented coaches and players. I hope to apply what I've learned to the role at Ulster and my family and I are looking forward to integrating into a strong community in Belfast."

Welcoming the news, Director of Rugby Les Kiss, added:

"Jono's CV speaks for itself and I know that he's looking forward to joining Ulster and working with the team. Jono has vast experience on both the playing and coaching fronts, having worked in many different environments such as Super Rugby, PRO12, the French Top 14 and European competitions.

"Since his retirement from playing, Jono has had an integral role in the coaching teams of two of European rugby's most successful sides. He was a key part of the Leinster set-up that won three Heineken Cups in four years and he has continued to be hugely successful during his time in France.

"Jono's expertise as a Forwards Coach is obvious, however his wealth of knowledge in other areas of the game will be really important for us."

"A review of the coaching structure is ongoing ahead of next season and the appointment of Jono as Head Coach is the first part of that process. A further announcement will be made in the coming weeks, which will focus on getting the right balance in our coaching team."

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 2:33 pm

They will both be playing but not sure which team

On th LH thing he has been very poor in the last two games and a prop who does nothing around the park is the last thing we need we have plenty of those.

I reckon he will be nowhere near the starting XV at the start of the season it will be McCall

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 2:54 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:They will both be playing but not sure which team

On th LH thing he has been very poor in the last two games and a prop who does nothing around the park is the last thing we need we have plenty of those.

I reckon he will be nowhere near the starting XV at the start of the season it will be McCall

That's disappointing Geoff.

I was underwhelmed at the time. Still am.

Was there not chat that he was a decent ball carrier? Have we seen any evidence or lack thereof?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 3:19 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
I reckon he will be nowhere near the starting XV at the start of the season it will be McCall

I think that's what everyone except vDM will want, McCalls hopefully here for the longer term so you want him being 1st choice on merit and hopefully building from there

Just a pity we didn't snap up Paddy McAllister before Gloucester gave him a new contract

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 3:57 pm

marty2086 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
I reckon he will be nowhere near the starting XV at the start of the season it will be McCall

I think that's what everyone except vDM will want, McCalls hopefully here for the longer term so you want him being 1st choice on merit and hopefully building from there

Just a pity we didn't snap up Paddy McAllister before Gloucester gave him a new contract

I see he plays most games. Does anyone watch the Premiership? Do we know where he is relative to the likes of McCall / McGrath / Healy / etc?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 4:15 pm

Redman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
I reckon he will be nowhere near the starting XV at the start of the season it will be McCall

I think that's what everyone except vDM will want, McCalls hopefully here for the longer term so you want him being 1st choice on merit and hopefully building from there

Just a pity we didn't snap up Paddy McAllister before Gloucester gave him a new contract

I see he plays most games.  Does anyone watch the Premiership?  Do we know where he is relative to the likes of McCall / McGrath / Healy / etc?

I watched him early in the season, can't remember the game but he was torn apart at scrum time and looked like a shell of the player he once was. He was taken off before the half hour mark and it was a sad sight and seemed like his best was behind him

The few times Ive seen him since then he's looked great at scrum time and would say he's ahead of McCall there and maybe even Healy, he puts in his tackles and seems to have a bit of power when carrying the ball

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 5:10 pm

I don't know how good/bad he will really be, but watching Van der Merwe's highlights on Youtube, a few weeks ago, he seemed fine to me. I know YouTube highlights don't tell the whole story, but I was happy with what I seen.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by neilthom7 on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 9:57 pm

I see the lads were at a bricklaying course today at Belfast Met, maybe this is Les Kiss new defence plan

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 10:07 pm

neilthom7 wrote:I see the lads were at a bricklaying course today at Belfast Met, maybe this is Les Kiss new defence plan

Couldn't be any slower ...

Maybe some of the squad are preparing for a new career once Gibbes arrives Smile

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by neilthom7 on Wed 12 Apr 2017, 10:13 pm

Maybe he want's them to know what a wall looks like next time he tells them to defend like one because clearly the walls they seen before Cardiff were full of holes

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Kingshu on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 9:13 am

Which Irish Province is making eyes at Oliver Jager?

Ok he is young but to make the Crusaders squad isn't easy and at 21 it seams like he has a very bright future.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 9:38 am

Kingshu wrote:Which Irish Province is making eyes at Oliver Jager?

Ok he is young but to make the Crusaders squad isn't easy and at 21 it seams like he has a very bright future.

He'll be NZQ in another year or so Wink
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 9:53 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Which Irish Province is making eyes at Oliver Jager?

Ok he is young but to make the Crusaders squad isn't easy and at 21 it seams like he has a very bright future.

He'll be NZQ in another year or so Wink

Hold on a minute, you're not happy raiding the PIs now you want to still our players too? Rolling Eyes


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 9:57 am

marty2086 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Which Irish Province is making eyes at Oliver Jager?

Ok he is young but to make the Crusaders squad isn't easy and at 21 it seams like he has a very bright future.

He'll be NZQ in another year or so Wink

Hold on a minute, you're not happy raiding the PIs now you want to still our players too? Rolling Eyes


Turnabout is fair play Wink
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 10:26 am

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
Kingshu wrote:Which Irish Province is making eyes at Oliver Jager?

Ok he is young but to make the Crusaders squad isn't easy and at 21 it seams like he has a very bright future.

He'll be NZQ in another year or so Wink

Hold on a minute, you're not happy raiding the PIs now you want to still our players too? Rolling Eyes


Turnabout is fair play Wink

Sure everyone else just gets the Kiwi scraps, poor Charlie Piutau was exiled you guys have that much depth Sad

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 10:38 am

He's 6'4''. That's huge for a prop. His dad was 6'10''. The family must be naturally massive.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 12:06 pm

Conor Joyce away to Jersey Reds.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 12:24 pm

Sounds terrible but it's probably too late for him. At 23 he played the same age group rugby as Josh Van Der Flier and Dan Leavy. I think I read he was captain of the U20 team that had them playing in 2013.

He can't get a game for Ulster while both the other 2 have Ireland caps. You can argue each individual case about why players don't make it, but overall there's something rotten through the Ulster development programme meaning so few have actually made it.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 12:41 pm

Leavy was 2014 but Joyce was first choice in the backrow playing 6 and 8, vdF wasn't until after the first few games that year. Leavy played with another Ulsterman that didn't make it though in Frank Taggart, 2013 had John Donnan in the second row too

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 12:49 pm

God that's even worse than I thought. Chuck in Dow and you've a collection of players who reached their peak at underage rugby and didn't progress any further. Any statisticians about that could calculate the odds of that happening by chance to a single Provence?


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 1:01 pm

I still hold out hope that Dow will at least be a decent Pro12 player for us, with the Chuckle Bros going hopefully the pathway will be smoother.

Though saying that, Doak seemingly had a bit of a better eye for talent and bringing it through

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by profitius on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 2:14 pm

marty2086 wrote:Leavy was 2014 but Joyce was first choice in the backrow playing 6 and 8, vdF wasn't until after the first few games that year. Leavy played with another Ulsterman that didn't make it though in Frank Taggart, 2013 had John Donnan in the second row too


Tbh Joyce looked very ordinary at u20 level. Dow too. I did think Taggart had something about him. If I'm right, those 3 were originally exiles. I think in many instances, the exile players will be more physically developed than the local players and it shows more at underage level. Sam Arnold at U19 was more developed than most of the U20 players. That might be a reason for his plethora of injuries.
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 10:04 pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2017/0330/863899-grenoble/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39576181

Appears Farrell hasn't been charged but Coulson has. The lawyers for both of them claimed initially they were being questioned as witnesses.

Grim. Let's hope, whatever it is, justice is done.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Thu 13 Apr 2017, 10:38 pm

Ah FFS, can these well paid young men not find ladies who are interested without them being intoxicated? And what's with this sharing fad? Are they egging each other on or what? Does this kind of thing happen regularly in every day life and we only hear about it in cases where 'celebs' are involved?
Makes me despair about society that some poor girl would be available for a group of guys like she's an amusement park ride. But the idea of it happening if she is unable to consent is just unforgivable. Being drunk yourself is simply no excuse.
Lock them up and life bans from rugby.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 12:47 am

Bit harsh, Clive Smile

We don't know what's happened yet, and it wouldn't be the first time if the girl is lying. She might not be of course, but better to wait until the court verdict before sending them to prison.


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 7:42 am

clivemcl wrote:Ah FFS, can these well paid young men not find ladies who are interested without them being intoxicated? And what's with this sharing fad? Are they egging each other on or what? Does this kind of thing happen regularly in every day life and we only hear about it in cases where 'celebs' are involved?
Makes me despair about society that some poor girl would be available for a group of guys like she's an amusement park ride. But the idea of it happening if she is unable to consent is just unforgivable. Being drunk yourself is simply no excuse.
Lock them up and life bans from rugby.

clive you talk about it like its a recent phenomenon, its been happening for thousands of years

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 9:19 am

marty2086 wrote:
clivemcl wrote:Ah FFS, can these well paid young men not find ladies who are interested without them being intoxicated? And what's with this sharing fad? Are they egging each other on or what? Does this kind of thing happen regularly in every day life and we only hear about it in cases where 'celebs' are involved?
Makes me despair about society that some poor girl would be available for a group of guys like she's an amusement park ride. But the idea of it happening if she is unable to consent is just unforgivable. Being drunk yourself is simply no excuse.
Lock them up and life bans from rugby.

clive you talk about it like its a recent phenomenon, its been happening for thousands of years

The phenomenon of 'poor' young girls throwing themselves at minor/major celebrities isn't new either and has happened since the birth of fame. Waking in the morning and regretting everything only to cry foul is an old one as well. Men being held solely responsible for drink fuelled sex sessions isn't new either.

The presumption of innocent until proven otherwise is another centuries old concept.

The truth will out!!!

I know that Farrell had nothing to do with the events apart from sharing the flat.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 12:08 pm

Ulster team & replacements to play Munster, Guinness PRO12, Saturday 15th February, Thomond Park (3.00pm kick-off, live on Sky Sports):
(15-9): J Stockdale, A Trimble (Capt), L Marshall, S Olding, C Piutau, P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): A Warwick, R Best, W Herbst, K Treadwell, A O'Connor, I Henderson, C Henry, S Reidy;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, R Ah You, R Diack, C Ross, P Marshall, S McCloskey, C Gilroy.

As good as can be expected, I suppose.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 12:14 pm

Marshall and Olding in the centre again? picard

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 1:11 pm

I've been hoping that Kiss would stick with the same partnership for at least a string of games, I'm just disappointed he picked the most ineffective combination of the season to make that decision. Sigh.

Where is Cave? Or Ludik even?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 1:13 pm

Dear help us:

Munster:  Simon Zebo; Darren Sweetnam, Francis Saili, Rory Scannell, Keith Earls; Tyler Bleyendaal, Duncan Williams; Dave Kiloyne, Niall Scannell, John Ryan; Donnacha Ryan, Billy Holland; Peter O’Mahony Capt., Tommy O’Donnell, Jack O’Donoghue.
Replacements:  Rhys Marshall, James Cronin, Stephen Archer, Dave O’Callaghan, Jean Deysel, Angus Lloyd, Ian Keatley, Andrew Conway.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 1:19 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Where is Cave? Or Ludik even?

Pretty sure Caves fit but Ludiks injured, Piutau to 13 surely would have been a more sensible selection given that he shone there last season for Wasps

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 6:14 pm

Well that's the end for Timoney then.  Like I said, cut to Kiss shaking his head straight after the turnover.  

I couldn't be less interested in this game.  I can see no way for us to win it, save a early red for Munster.  I honestly don't see the point in risking Best so close to the Lions squad announcement.  We should have just played the kids.  We'd at least salvage some useful experience for them.  

Trimble as captain.  It's like management is just taking the piss.  When Munster made O'Mahoney captain when O'Connell was still there and leading Ireland you at least felt a succession plan was in place.  What's the logic here?  Trimble is 32.  Why are we persisting with this nonsense.  It's fooling no one.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 6:32 pm

What candidates do we have? What leaders do we have? Jackson, maybe? As far as I can see, we have a team of talented but lazy individuals, many of whom believe their own hype. I hope the likes of Stockdale don't fall into the same trap.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 7:13 pm

Controversially, is there a bit of a lack of adversity in the experiences our grammar school boys have? Is there an element of easy come easy go privilege about these boys?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 8:50 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:Controversially, is there a bit of a lack of adversity in the experiences our grammar school boys have?  Is there an element of easy come easy go privilege about these boys?

Some of our best leaders went to grammar schools and some of our biggest culprits didn't. Redmans mentioned the Timoney turnover a few times, if you watch it back you'll see Diack standing in the background going through a range of thinking 'well done big lad', 'I hope he isn't getting turned over, 'crap he might get turned over', 'I'm a backrower maybe I should do something, 'I'm going to go help him out, then ending up at 'crap I should have done something sooner'.

I think we have a lack of accountability, guys can have shockers yet get picked again next game. Thats a problem caused by a lack of depth but also a lack of trust in young players. If we back the young players and give them a chance to prove themselves, we create competition. There will be occasions where it won't work but even if it's done on a few occasions, it creates the potential to at least threaten it and it have an impact. If a coach at Ulster now said to someone, sort yourself out or we'll bring in an academy player, they'd just get laughed at.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 14 Apr 2017, 10:41 pm

For the record I'm not blaming Timoney. From memory I remember thinking he maybe might have overran a little bit but there was no reason our support couldn't have gotten to him in time. I am however lamenting a culture within Ulster management of "blame the new guy", while people who have been there for years making the same mistakes week in, week out *cough Paul Marhsall cough* get new contracts and consistent game time.

As soon as I saw the Kiss shaking his head I knew what the score was going to be.

We certainly do lack accountability in the team Marty.

For the captaincy there's a number of candidates you could pick ahead of Trimble. Again, not a slight on Trimble but it's a nonsensical choice. Jackson would be the most obvious and would indict some sense of long term planning but just in terms of team coordination and experience Pienaar, Henry, etc would all be more suited (though far from perfect).

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 11:21 am

I can just see Ulster playing the best game of the season today after its all too late. It would be very like them to show us that they are actually capable, but just don't do it for whatever reason all too often.
At least if we get stuffed today we can say 'of course we did, we aren't good'.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 1:24 pm

Redman wrote:For the record I'm not blaming Timoney.  From memory I remember thinking he maybe might have overran a little bit but there was no reason our support couldn't have gotten to him in time.  I am however lamenting a culture within Ulster management of "blame the new guy", while people who have been there for years making the same mistakes week in, week out *cough Paul Marhsall cough* get new contracts and consistent game time.  

As soon as I saw the Kiss shaking his head I knew what the score was going to be.  

We certainly do lack accountability in the team Marty.  

For the captaincy there's a number of candidates you could pick ahead of Trimble.  Again, not a slight on Trimble but it's a nonsensical choice.  Jackson would be the most obvious and would indict some sense of long term planning but just in terms of team coordination and experience Pienaar, Henry, etc would all be more suited (though far from perfect).  

I dont think Timoney is being held accountable for the turnover, I just don't think he was ever going to get a look in today and probably won't before the season is out.

Many of the squad are in for a culture shock next season, the errors we see game after game have to be there in training despite what we here post match. You can't train well then show up at the weekend and start making mistakes, from what has been said about Gibbes thats not something he will stand for and the intensity and errors will be addressed there.

As for captains, I dont think we will see much of Trimble captaining other than in name and ceremony, it will be Rory taking on the role during the game. Don't forget its Herring who has the role too and when it was announced he seemed like a good choice but seems have been hindered by the responsibility. Jackson won't be captain anytime soon, with him pushing Sexton harder and being a regular in Ireland camp he won't be around enough for the job, Henry being injured at the start of the season is why he isn't captain for me, he is one of our best leaders.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 1:27 pm

clivemcl wrote:I can just see Ulster playing the best game of the season today after its all too late. It would be very like them to show us that they are actually capable, but just don't do it for whatever reason all too often.
At least if we get stuffed today we can say 'of course we did, we aren't good'.

Please don't angel
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 1:28 pm

eirebilly wrote:
clivemcl wrote:I can just see Ulster playing the best game of the season today after its all too late. It would be very like them to show us that they are actually capable, but just don't do it for whatever reason all too often.
At least if we get stuffed today we can say 'of course we did, we aren't good'.

Please don't angel

Dont worry billy, we'd still find a way to lose the game

God the pessimism on here is catching on Erm

It is the time of the year for resurrections though Whistle

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 1:32 pm

Never a truer word said marty, Ulster do seem to find a way to lose a lot this season. Munster need to win today to keep the pressure on Leinster who look to be the form team.
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 2:50 pm

Ulster have a good chance here with Munster loosing their 9 and 10. Always said Munster will never win anything with Keatley...
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:06 pm

This Angus Lloyd looks a bit scared of contact, that's twice hes gone to ground before being hit by the tackler.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:07 pm

Good try for Ulster, very strong.
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:08 pm

Ulster looking fired up, POM looking like he is too but getting on the wrong side of it

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:10 pm

What a dummy from POM Very Happy
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by neilthom7 on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:11 pm

That's very annoying, Piatau not only bought the dummy but he wandered back with no pace. It's 7 mins in he can't be tired so that's just laziness

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:12 pm

Piutau was just jogging back. as soon as POM went through Piutau never more than jogged. He could easily have blocked the pass to Lloyd, or even tackled him. Waste of space.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:13 pm

Beat me to it Neil, glad I'm not the only one who noticed how little Piutau seemed to care.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by eirebilly on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 3:13 pm

neilthom7 wrote:That's very annoying, Piatau not only bought the dummy but he wandered back with no pace.  It's 7 mins in he can't be tired so that's just laziness

No excuse for that, very poor from him. Could have easily tracked back and got to POM.
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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

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