Ulster 2016/2017

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Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:43 am

First topic message reminder :

And it's been confirmed

Ulster Rugby has today announced that Jono Gibbes will join the Province as Head Coach ahead of the 2017/18 season, having signed a two-year contract.

  The former New Zealand player is currently Forwards Coach at French giants ASM Clermont Auvergne and he previously held a similar position at Leinster Rugby.

Gibbes joined Leinster in 2008, helping the squad to win three Heineken Cup titles during a six-year spell in Dublin. The first of those successes came under the stewardship of Michael Cheika in 2009, before he assisted Joe Schmidt in the 2011 and 2012 triumphs.

He moved to France in 2014 and was part of a coaching set-up that guided Clermont to the Top 14 and Champions Cup finals in his debut season.

In addition to his expertise in forward play, the 40-year-old has also gained valuable experience in coaching other aspects of the game, such as attack, during his stints at Leinster and Clermont.

Gibbes said that there were many contributing factors in his move back to Ireland:

"The respect that I have for Les (Kiss), as a coach and as a person, was one of my main reasons for making this decision. He really sold his vision of where he wants to take Ulster over the next few years.

"Ulster is a team that I know well, having come up against them on a number of occasions. The Clermont-Ulster games this season gave me an insight into the strengths of the squad and it's exciting to think that I'll be part of that environment from next season.

"With 6 years at Leinster and 3 years at Clermont in the Top 14, I've been afforded many different experiences, working with some very talented coaches and players. I hope to apply what I've learned to the role at Ulster and my family and I are looking forward to integrating into a strong community in Belfast."

Welcoming the news, Director of Rugby Les Kiss, added:

"Jono's CV speaks for itself and I know that he's looking forward to joining Ulster and working with the team. Jono has vast experience on both the playing and coaching fronts, having worked in many different environments such as Super Rugby, PRO12, the French Top 14 and European competitions.

"Since his retirement from playing, Jono has had an integral role in the coaching teams of two of European rugby's most successful sides. He was a key part of the Leinster set-up that won three Heineken Cups in four years and he has continued to be hugely successful during his time in France.

"Jono's expertise as a Forwards Coach is obvious, however his wealth of knowledge in other areas of the game will be really important for us."

"A review of the coaching structure is ongoing ahead of next season and the appointment of Jono as Head Coach is the first part of that process. A further announcement will be made in the coming weeks, which will focus on getting the right balance in our coaching team."

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Sat 15 Apr 2017, 10:29 pm

One plus to come from the game is Lloyd looks like he could be a half decent player, I'm guessing we'll be letting him join Munster though Rolling Eyes

Fourth spot looks like it will come down to who doesn't want it the least

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 2:26 am

marty2086 wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
marty2086 wrote:One thing I will say, we seem to have went backwards since Barakat left. We weren't great when he was around but we didnt seem to miss as many tackles or knock on as many balls as we do

I don't think Barakat was doing much for our defense at all, but I suppose it doesn't help to go half a season without a replacement. That and those two numpties disrupting training.

He was coaching the 'contact' though and thats where we seem to really struggle, how many tackles do we miss every game these days? The same with knock ons in contact?

I said it earlier in the season, Im not sure where we are in tries and points conceded at this stage but back then we were top 3 in both but for the most part we were dominating games then but the conversation rates were better against us than for us.

I don't know, marty, but my impression is that we have had a few games when the forwards up their game, such as the first game against Glasgow, but these games are the exception. I don't believe our defense under Barakat was really much different to what we're seeing now, only that the pack has been regressing as the season continue's. We can have the one-off big games. The pack can raise their game and play well, it's just the will to do so consistently isn't there. They are not interested as a collective. They do not have a winning mentality.

Rory has proved himself a great captain for Ireland, yet even he can't get get this pack to raise their game. Maybe it's because he has been there so long, the players to0 familiar. It's telling how much difference Coetzee made to the pack once he started, and it's more telling how the pack reacted once injury ruled him out. They shouldn't have to look to a new 25 year old NIQ for inspiration, and leadership, but they do. Apathy has set in, and I'm hoping that once Clarke moves on things will chance, if it's down to him.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by neilthom7 on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 9:19 am

I will say this about Gibbes, if it's apathy thats the problem for our players then they are in for a very rude awakening going into next season because that just wont cut it with Gibbes.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 9:29 am

I hope so Neil because that's exactly what we need. A lot of our players need a real good kick up the you-know-where.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 10:10 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I hope so Neil because that's exactly what we need. A lot of our players need a real good kick up the you-know-where.

The ar8eho1e Rory? Smile Smile

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 2:35 pm

The shame about this is the misery will persist for another 2 weeks as we wait for the bounce back of Ospreys to form.

We'll still roll out basically the same team as what we put out yesterday, possibly with Payne if fit.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 5:51 pm

neilthom7 wrote:I will say this about Gibbes, if it's apathy thats the problem for our players then they are in for a very rude awakening going into next season because that just wont cut it with Gibbes.

That's very much what I'm pinning my hopes on. A coach that will come in and demand the best from each performer and performance. Someone who will bring the fight out in this side. I know this side is more than capable of really getting stuck in, and making a fight of it. It's just that they fail to do so consistently, and lose games we really should be winning.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 9:53 pm

Sorry to come back to it, but Luke not giving that pass to Pienaar (28m46s) was so bad that you might be forgiven for thinking there was a bribe involved.

Sorry, I just rewatched it, and the Piutau jogging (11m49s). I even looked a few minutes before to see if piutau had done a lot of work, if he was puffed or if he was carrying a knock.
That said, the moment Lloyd get's the ball from the back of the ruck it was 7 vs 4 on that side of the field and Charlie was only getting to his feet.
Still though, look at Paddy tracking back from midfield to see the commitment we should expect.



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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 10:37 pm

I've lost count of how often Luke Marshall has made a fantastic break only to throw an absolute shocker of a pass to the man with a clear run for the line. I really can't believe he hasn't fixed it. It must be a confidence thing.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Sun 16 Apr 2017, 10:53 pm

Made worse by the fact he throws a dummy, realises it didn't work and tries to get the pass away when contact is imminent.
Decide what you are going to do and do it. If he had decided he wasn't passing he could have dropped the shoulder - there's always a chance of steam rolling a last man defender, but trying to get the ball away like he did was just panic.
We somehow achieved a penalty from that piece of play though...

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Mon 17 Apr 2017, 12:03 pm

The passing in general was poor on Saturday, Pienaar included. Too many times guys were having to stop to collect a pass because it was above their heads or just behind, when it was out in front of them they were having to reach out and collect and losing strides to do which hampered any potential attack


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 12:27 am

I fancy there's money to made in a startup that does VR for sports people.

You can only train the body so much before fatigue kicks in, but you should be able to train the brain much, much more.

You'd use a readily available graphics engine, like Unreal, and it would be a simple decision making simulation. For the Luke Marshall example, you'd just have him sit in the simulator until he stops f*cking up passes the ball.

If you were feeling particularly sadistic (or your players were completely without a brain cell between them, a la Ulster) you'd electrocute them every time they make a mistake.

These lads are lucky a sofite like Gibbs is coming onboard next week and not me!

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 1:40 am

Id like to think they practise decision making plenty in training, you simply cant replicate a match day situation

Fatigue, pressure, another human being charging at you with serious intent arent things that training and especially VR can replicate

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:33 am

marty2086 wrote:Id like to think they practise decision making plenty in training, you simply cant replicate a match day situation

Fatigue, pressure, another human being charging at you with serious intent arent things that training and especially VR can replicate

Got to disagree Marty. People can be trained to make better decisions, even if it's instinctual. Very average players continue to improve in the right environments, in some cases way beyond what their basic skillset would normally allow. Munster are a case in point. We don't seem to manage that at all.

It's a case of a) we're not training these lads the right things enough of the time for it to stick, b) we're not teaching these lads the rights decisions in these scenarios or c) we're not training these lads at all.

I know it's Hollywood but Memento sums up instinctual learning really well. I had a similar case at work where a door handle would produce a mild electric shock. After a certain number of shocks my body would stop me touching it. I'd walk upto the door reach out and my hand would then stop and I'd have to consciously override the safety impulse.

I absolutely guarantee you could do the same with these players. Attach electric dog collars to each of them and ZAP! whenever they did something stupid.

Luke Marshall gives the dummy and takes contact? ZAP!

Piutau lazily runs back in defence? ZAP! ZAP!

Paul Marshall takes a quick tap penalty in the 81 minute when you're 9 points down and in penalty range for a LBP? ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!

100% certainty I'd teach them what they should be doing and / or be up on torture charges at the Old Bailey.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:22 am

I'm on board.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 9:25 am

Redman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Id like to think they practise decision making plenty in training, you simply cant replicate a match day situation

Fatigue, pressure, another human being charging at you with serious intent arent things that training and especially VR can replicate

Got to disagree Marty.  People can be trained to make better decisions, even if it's instinctual.  Very average players continue to improve in the right environments, in some cases way beyond what their basic skillset would normally allow.  Munster are a case in point.  We don't seem to manage that at all.  

It's a case of a) we're not training these lads the right things enough of the time for it to stick, b) we're not teaching these lads the rights decisions in these scenarios or c) we're not training these lads at all.  

I know it's Hollywood but Memento sums up instinctual learning really well.  I had a similar case at work where a door handle would produce a mild electric shock.  After a certain number of shocks my body would stop me touching it.  I'd walk upto the door reach out and my hand would then stop and I'd have to consciously override the safety impulse.  

I absolutely guarantee you could do the same with these players.  Attach electric dog collars to each of them and ZAP! whenever they did something stupid.  

Luke Marshall gives the dummy and takes contact?  ZAP!

Piutau lazily runs back in defence?  ZAP! ZAP!

Paul Marshall takes a quick tap penalty in the 81 minute when you're 9 points down and in penalty range for a LBP?  ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!

100% certainty I'd teach them what they should be doing and / or be up on torture charges at the Old Bailey.  

I didnt say you couldnt teach it, what I said was there are certain factors you can't replicate

Didn't we see a situation on Saturday when a player broke and automatically offloaded even though noone was there (this may have been Munster or even another game), this isn't teach instinct its teaching response, if a happen then I do x. Whether you like it or not that may well have been instinct from Marshall but just simply poorly timed and that can come down to lack of confidence

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 12:35 pm

I LIKE this ZAP idea! I'd attach my special High Voltage one to Murray. We could be Numero Uno in World Rugby if Murray had a season of ZAP therapy. Murray rests and twirls his balls... ZAP! Murray has a smoking break behind his pack - ZAP!

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:06 pm

SecretFly wrote:I LIKE this ZAP idea!  I'd attach my special High Voltage one to Murray.  We could be Numero Uno in World Rugby if Murray had a season of ZAP therapy.  Murray rests and twirls his balls... ZAP!  Murray has a smoking break behind his pack - ZAP!

You'll be getting a ZAP left on the permanent setting by the Munster fans if you aren't careful.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by SecretFly on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 2:51 pm

laughing

Gotta watch out for them Dutch Mafiosi types. They is sadists!

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 6:09 pm

Lions squad is out tomorrow.

Any bets?

Strangely there's been mention of Henderson in some quarters. I honestly can't see how he'd get a look in. At the moment I'd say there's an 80% shot Best will make the squad ......... and that's about it for us.

Personally I'd take Payne too given his general utility but there doesn't seem to be any hype around him for selection.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 7:08 pm

http://ulsterrugby.com/news/15933.php#.WPZVcqXTXqA

Looks like the work is going on - just need to be patient, maybe.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 10:47 pm

That's a useful sign. Kiss has been talking about producing more players through the club system rather than be reliant on the schools.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 10:48 pm

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/04/18/british-irish-lionsdylan-hartley-miss-jamie-roberts-earns-shock/

Telegraph are running with this. They're saying Henderson is in. If so he's very lucky on recent performances.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 11:07 pm

Redman wrote:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/04/18/british-irish-lionsdylan-hartley-miss-jamie-roberts-earns-shock/

Telegraph are running with this.  They're saying Henderson is in.  If so he's very lucky on recent performances.  

Plenty of dodgy calls in there, Roberts and Faletau have barely played any test matches recently yet are in and Teo too?

Plenty of players can feel hard done by and Id say Payne is one of them given how little game time some get

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 11:31 pm

Indeed. Earls over Payne, Zebo and even Kearney. We'll see if it holds true tomorrow.

Some strange ones there.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Tue 18 Apr 2017, 11:43 pm

If one of the Grays isn't in the squad then the Scottish should put a bounty on Gatlands head

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:02 am

Gatland forewarned Scotland in public.  He said it straight up; - no Scottish coach then nobody in camp to promote Scottish players.  What a weird comment to make from a Lions head coach but it seems (if the releases and reports on what his list will be are close to true) that he is again a man not to be ignored.  Townsend turned him down = 'snub' = declaration from Gatland with loaded implications = Scottish and other Lions observers forgetting Gatland's response to the 'snub' until now.

Many people follow the old propaganda line about Lions..... comradeship, fraternity and all that nonsense.  No, it's business, career moulding and politics,.... and plotting and back-stabbing, and elephant memories and horses heads on the pillows of enemies.  That's why it's always a much better movie than it is a rugby tour.  It's entertainment - as the Godfather trilogy was entertainment.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:24 am

They are right about Warburton's captaincy but how can the Telegraph possibly know the full squad.
I hope Henderson isn't selected, the only lions top he deserves comes with a free Sports Direct mug. He's been so off form he makes Rodney Ahfeck look energetic.
To be honest I am feeling pretty flat about the Lions for the first time in my life. With the slaughter that awaits them they should be rebranded as the B&I Lambs.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:46 am

I said when Warburton stepped down as Wales captain he would be Lions captain, maybe Henderson has been saving himself for the tour.

Gatland would have had to give the final squad to the administrators in the Lions HQ, someone theres obviously leaked it or his coaches have blabbed

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:48 am

There's been quite a few leaks this time around.  I'm expecting a 3-0 whitewash, the complete opposite of the 0-3 whitewash I hoped we would give the Aussies last time.

Real shame we aren't playing South Africa this time around.  They look very beatable with their current coaching ticket.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 10:50 am

The ABs are there for the taking, they are ruthless but there are plenty of weaknesses but doubt Gatland has the gameplan to do it

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:07 pm

Jareds in Yahoo

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:19 pm

Telegraph was WAY off.

Delighted for Payne. Perplexed by Henderson.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:20 pm

I'm wondering if to deflect from criticism they leaked Roberts et al so people got it out of their system.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:24 pm

Three Ulster lions. Delighted for them all. Rory and Jared well deserved, time for Hendo to focus.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:28 pm

Henderson for Ireland has played well, for us in the last few months he has been timid but he did out play the English locks in the 6Ns which likely got him in

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:33 pm

He's an excellent player, being coached by complete no-shows for his provincial team, which is in meltdown, treading water waiting for the new broom to come in.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him seriously deliver on this tour.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 12:39 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:He's an excellent player, being coached by complete no-shows for his provincial team, which is in meltdown, treading water waiting for the new broom to come in.

Wouldn't be surprised to see him seriously deliver on this tour.

Could be the nail on the head there

Was earmarked for this tour years ago and the prospect of him and Itoje is mouthwatering

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:23 pm

I get your logic and obviously I'm delighted for that lad. However English fans are quite right to counter saying Henderson's potential is just a gamble at the end of the day. Launchbury's MOM displays and Player of the 6 Nations nomination are very real.

Same goes for the Grays.


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by toml on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 2:48 pm

How do Ulster have more lions than Scotland. Tommy Seymour as well!

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:01 pm

2 Ulster born players and only 1 born in Scotland

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:02 pm

Redman wrote:I get your logic and obviously I'm delighted for that lad.  However English fans are quite right to counter saying Henderson's potential is just a gamble at the end of the day.  Launchbury's MOM displays and Player of the 6 Nations nomination are very real.

Same goes for the Grays.  


I don't think its potential, I think he has the ability at the highest level and has shown it

AWJ, Kruis and Lawes too are all lucky to an extent

I think Lawes is going to smash people

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:07 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:2 Ulster born players and only 1 born in Scotland

3 NZ born players, 1 born in Australia, 1 in Tonga, 1 in the US and one in Scotland

There are more Irish farmers going than Scotsmen and more members of the Faletau/Vunipola family than Scotsmen too Whistle

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Golden on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:08 pm

Wow you guys got the biggest representation according to BT Very Happy

http://i.imgur.com/Gf55SAe.jpg

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by SecretFly on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:12 pm

11 Ulstermen?!

Nucifora and Joe is gonna be p1ssed!

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:25 pm

That's what we needed to do to get players to come north, we needed to cut them southern nancys lose and send them out to sea


Last edited by marty2086 on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 3:29 pm

Wow that's a seriously bad and hilarious graphic.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Wed 19 Apr 2017, 4:46 pm

marty2086 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:2 Ulster born players and only 1 born in Scotland

3 NZ born players, 1 born in Australia, 1 in Tonga, 1 in the US and one in Scotland

There are more Irish farmers going than Scotsmen and more members of the Faletau/Vunipola family than Scotsmen too Whistle

I'm presuming Hogg is the Scottish born, but aren't there strong Northern Irish family connections there? Is he reducible to 1/2 Scottish or maybe 3/4s?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:13 am

Indeed true an Irish granny who comes from George Bests family

3rd cousins once removed - or something like that

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 9:36 am

Been away for a week so missed the Munster game

Recorded it but only watched the first half so far.

Having read comments on here I have to say whilst there were individual mistakes by Pienaer, Jackson, OLding and Marshall none of them are having bad games

There are two people who have been awful though - Piatau and Stockdale.
I think Stockdale is one of the finds of the season, alongside Treadwell, but that 40 minutes were awful.
Dropped balls, poor positioning.
As for Piataud - not once but twice a total lazy b******d - disgraceful

Of course the 2nd half may through something different up.
Forwards making a decent fist of it, Henderson much better, Locks playing well, as is Reidy - Ross, as usual, totally ineffective though

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

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