Ulster 2016/2017

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Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Mon 13 Feb 2017, 9:43 am

First topic message reminder :

And it's been confirmed

Ulster Rugby has today announced that Jono Gibbes will join the Province as Head Coach ahead of the 2017/18 season, having signed a two-year contract.

  The former New Zealand player is currently Forwards Coach at French giants ASM Clermont Auvergne and he previously held a similar position at Leinster Rugby.

Gibbes joined Leinster in 2008, helping the squad to win three Heineken Cup titles during a six-year spell in Dublin. The first of those successes came under the stewardship of Michael Cheika in 2009, before he assisted Joe Schmidt in the 2011 and 2012 triumphs.

He moved to France in 2014 and was part of a coaching set-up that guided Clermont to the Top 14 and Champions Cup finals in his debut season.

In addition to his expertise in forward play, the 40-year-old has also gained valuable experience in coaching other aspects of the game, such as attack, during his stints at Leinster and Clermont.

Gibbes said that there were many contributing factors in his move back to Ireland:

"The respect that I have for Les (Kiss), as a coach and as a person, was one of my main reasons for making this decision. He really sold his vision of where he wants to take Ulster over the next few years.

"Ulster is a team that I know well, having come up against them on a number of occasions. The Clermont-Ulster games this season gave me an insight into the strengths of the squad and it's exciting to think that I'll be part of that environment from next season.

"With 6 years at Leinster and 3 years at Clermont in the Top 14, I've been afforded many different experiences, working with some very talented coaches and players. I hope to apply what I've learned to the role at Ulster and my family and I are looking forward to integrating into a strong community in Belfast."

Welcoming the news, Director of Rugby Les Kiss, added:

"Jono's CV speaks for itself and I know that he's looking forward to joining Ulster and working with the team. Jono has vast experience on both the playing and coaching fronts, having worked in many different environments such as Super Rugby, PRO12, the French Top 14 and European competitions.

"Since his retirement from playing, Jono has had an integral role in the coaching teams of two of European rugby's most successful sides. He was a key part of the Leinster set-up that won three Heineken Cups in four years and he has continued to be hugely successful during his time in France.

"Jono's expertise as a Forwards Coach is obvious, however his wealth of knowledge in other areas of the game will be really important for us."

"A review of the coaching structure is ongoing ahead of next season and the appointment of Jono as Head Coach is the first part of that process. A further announcement will be made in the coming weeks, which will focus on getting the right balance in our coaching team."

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 10:27 am

Redman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:2 Ulster born players and only 1 born in Scotland

3 NZ born players, 1 born in Australia, 1 in Tonga, 1 in the US and one in Scotland

There are more Irish farmers going than Scotsmen and more members of the Faletau/Vunipola family than Scotsmen too Whistle

I'm presuming Hogg is the Scottish born, but aren't there strong Northern Irish family connections there?  Is he reducible to 1/2 Scottish or maybe 3/4s?

I was working solely on birthplace, we could claim part of Seymour otherwise

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 5:28 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Indeed true an Irish granny who comes from George Bests family

3rd cousins once removed - or something like that

He's the spitting image of him, right enough.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by SecretFly on Thu 20 Apr 2017, 5:44 pm

Munchkin wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Indeed true an Irish granny who comes from George Bests family

3rd cousins once removed - or something like that

He's the spitting image of him, right enough.

laughing

What? Are you suggesting Hogg wouldn't get the dozen of super-models in one night??? You cad, Munch!

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Munchkin on Fri 21 Apr 2017, 10:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Munchkin wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Indeed true an Irish granny who comes from George Bests family

3rd cousins once removed - or something like that

He's the spitting image of him, right enough.

laughing

What?  Are you suggesting Hogg wouldn't get the dozen of super-models in one night???  You cad, Munch!

I think he might struggle a wee bit Smile

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 10:09 am

https://www.facebook.com/ulsterrugby/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE&fref=nf

More good work going on.

Sorry - can't link to it properly, seemingly. Talking about the Super Sunday thing.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 12:40 pm

And Banbridge gained promotion last weekend to 1B of the AIL, so there will be 3 Ulster clubs in the second tier next season. Hopefully some of them can kick on and get promotion next season and we can see more Ulster clubs playing at a higher level and developing players capable of playing at a higher level for Ulster to a better standard than they have been.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by carpet baboon on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 8:03 pm

As an Ulster fan it's always a perpetual hope.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 2:46 pm

AOC, Ross and Shanahan signed on now until 2019 and John Andrew until 2020


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 3:40 pm

Very pleased about AOC and Andrew. Hopefully Ross and Shanahan shape up under Gibbes/Peel.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 4:07 pm

Ross and Shanahan have shown they have the ability to work to a decent level, they just need to do it consistently

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 8:12 pm

Yeah, I didn't mean to run them down - decent squad members. Big respect especially to Clive Ross, who just kept working to get where he is. Maybe they can kick on a bit though.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 8:23 pm

So has anyone heard? Are we signing Ryan or not? The only one of Leinster boys who didn't get contract renewal if memory serves me right. When would it be announced if so?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 8:47 pm

Forget all that, anyone know whats going on with Trimble? From what I can see his IRFU deal runs out in a few months

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 27 Apr 2017, 11:25 pm

marty2086 wrote:Ross and Shanahan have shown they have the ability to work to a decent level, they just need to do it consistently

Nice guys, both try, but the brutal truth is neither is up to the standard required

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 9:28 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Ross and Shanahan have shown they have the ability to work to a decent level, they just need to do it consistently

Nice guys, both try, but the brutal truth is neither is up to the standard required

Ross' start to the season says to me theres technical ability to fill a role as a squad player capable of covering during international windows and we need those kind of players and Shanahan can do the same he is still only 23

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 9:58 am

I can understand Ross being kept as one of those 'break glass' options and I do believe he could improve with adequate coaching etc. Shanahan on the other hand is not up to the standard required if we are to kick on next season. It's bad enough that we'll be without Ruan but the drop off in standard is huge. Cooney better bring something to the party because Shanahan has nothing to bring.
Also, it's my firm belief that unless the player has bucket loads of X factor, the age of the tiny, nippy scrum-half has well and truly passed with the increased physicality required in the professional game.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 10:27 am

Cooney should start with Lloyd on the bench
Wont happen though unless Gibbes is in sole control of selection.

We should be playing Timoney, Dow, Rea etc next year, over Ross, if we are serious about giving youngsters a chance and improving the standard long term.


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 11:39 am

Other forum is saying that O'Donnell hasn't been offered an academy slot. Was it him or Stewart who were said to be the most talented 9 to come through the system in years?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 11:43 am

He's going into the sub-academy. Chill.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 11:45 am

ROG speaking about Farrell and his going to Munster, have we missed a trick in not resigning him?

I think we'll see him in the red and green jersey next season.

At six-foot-five and with his variety of skills, he has something to offer at national level that we haven't seen. The guy is the same size as Joe Rokocoko or Donnacha Ryan and he's playing in the centre.

His passing game, left to right and right to left, is really good. He's working with an under the radar coach in Mike Prendergast down at Grenoble and he has been mentoring him for two years. He has been drilling skills into Chris; he's not just a gym monkey.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 11:53 am

Realistically, how were we supposed to entice him?

Under coaches who don't have fistfights at training, I dare say Marshall and McCloskey will get back some form, hopefully Olding puts his woes behind him, and we have Cave and Payne. To say nothing of Stockdale.

He'll walk straight onto the Munster team, if he's that good.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 11:56 am

I'd say we missed a chance alright Marty. Jackman had nothing but high praise for the guy's commitment and progress as a player. He's a massive lump with a skillset to match but Ulster seem to be able to coach the ability to utilize that out of players. Munster may well be in Chris' best interest for now.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 12:05 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:Realistically, how were we supposed to entice him?

Under coaches who don't have fistfights at training, I dare say Marshall and McCloskey will get back some form, hopefully Olding puts his woes behind him, and we have Cave and Payne. To say nothing of Stockdale.

He'll walk straight onto the Munster team, if he's that good.

Seemingly the same way Leinster and Munster keep their players, there's no place like home? Maybe a nice salary too

I haven't seen much of Farrell this season but the reports I've read are that he has been a stand out in a poor Grenoble team

If things go well next season we will hopefully lose some of those guys to Ireland, Payne will miss the start of the season and has made a case to be playing more at 15 and is also 31.

The likes of Marshall, McCloskey, Olding haven't played as well as they this season for a number of reasons. What happens if they underperform next season again?

He doesn't necessarily offer us something different when we have McCloskey but does offer a bit more finesse

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 12:07 pm

Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Saturday 29th February, Liberty Stadium (3.00pm kick-off, live on BBC NI & Sky Sports):
(15-9): C Gilroy, A Trimble (Capt), L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Piutau, P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): A Warwick, R Best, W Herbst, K Treadwell, A O'Connor, I Henderson, S Reidy, R Diack;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, R Ah You, F van der Merwe, N Timoney, P Marshall, S Olding, J Stockdale.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 12:32 pm

Honestly, this "every province is beezer except us" is getting genuinely tiresome. We're in a mess at the moment. Absolutely.

However. Let's investigate the other province's sterling records in keeping players.

Like Mike Ross, Eoin Reddan, Felix Jones, Ian Keatley, Sean Cronin, Ultan Dillane. Did any of them earn an international cap while splaying for the province where they grew up? Cronin, maybe. Andrew Conway will be in the same boat if he gets capped. Are Munster happy to be rid of Donnacha Ryan? Did Leinster cheerily wave goodbye to Marty Moore and Jonathan Sexton? What about Ian Madigan?

The way Munster and Leinster kept those players?

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 12:33 pm

marty2086 wrote:Ulster team & replacements to play Ospreys, Guinness PRO12, Saturday 29th February, Liberty Stadium (3.00pm kick-off, live on BBC NI & Sky Sports):
(15-9): C Gilroy, A Trimble (Capt), L Marshall, S McCloskey, C Piutau, P Jackson, R Pienaar;
(1-8): A Warwick, R Best, W Herbst, K Treadwell, A O'Connor, I Henderson, S Reidy, R Diack;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, C Black, R Ah You, F van der Merwe, N Timoney, P Marshall, S Olding, J Stockdale.

Craig at 15 is... interesting. Glad to see Timoney and Stockdale on the bench, at least.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 12:51 pm

Don Im not getting your point here Headscratch

Ross, Reddan, Jones, Keatley, Cronin and Dillane were offered opportunities elsewhere that they weren't being offered at their home province. Also Dillane moved as a 17 year old so its a bit hard for him to be capped at that age. Ulster have offered opportunities to a number of players that they weren't getting elsewhere and been rejected. Moore and Sexton moved for cash and Madigan wanted to play 10 which wasn't going to happen with Sexton coming home.

I asked the question about Farrell because theres a case to be made for him being better than what is currently available . Even if that wasn't the case, we currently have Cave, Ludik and Payne in their 30s and at least one of them will be missing at times for Ireland and some of our other options may well be too, you through in injuries, suspension, rotation having quality options available isn't a bad idea

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 1:21 pm

marty2086 wrote:ROG speaking about Farrell and his going to Munster, have we missed a trick in not resigning him?

I think we'll see him in the red and green jersey next season.

At six-foot-five and with his variety of skills, he has something to offer at national level that we haven't seen. The guy is the same size as Joe Rokocoko or Donnacha Ryan and he's playing in the centre.

His passing game, left to right and right to left, is really good. He's working with an under the radar coach in Mike Prendergast down at Grenoble and he has been mentoring him for two years. He has been drilling skills into Chris; he's not just a gym monkey.

We offered Farrell a perfectly good contract he chose to turn it down - from what I've heard he didn't fancy the competition with McCloskey, Marshall, Olding coming through.

Also people have short memories when he left it was in part because his handling was poor - McCloskey was far more impressive in his break through year than Farrell was.
As to our current players with the coaching set up and the bizarre selection I don't blame them.
Off field shambles has made the place a toxic and unprofessional place to be.

Either Gibbes runs the show with Kiss as a figure head or we will be fighting against Cardiff, Connacht and Edinburgh next year and nowhere near the top 4/5.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 1:26 pm

"Honestly, this "every province is beezer except us" is getting genuinely tiresome. We're in a mess at the moment. Absolutely."

All Marty asked was if we'd missed a trick.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 1:26 pm

geoff, I mean did we miss out not resigning him since he seemingly has improved a lot in France and improved his overall skill set

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 1:44 pm

My understanding is because he didn't seem up for competing for a place and because he was not as good as McCloskey when here we were not that interested.

Also there seems to be a 606 mind set that someone playing in France is doing really well and must be better than what we have.
Unless you watch them probably not true

Classic example is Hart who is ok but nothing special as 9
Reading some here you would think he was the second coming.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 1:49 pm


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 1:57 pm

clive, that seems to be the problem.

Geoff, watching Farrell last season he seemed on power with if not better than McCloskey and didn't rely as much on his bulk to break through defences. If his passing has improved then it seems he may be a better option. It seems petty from Ulster to turn their noses up at him because he snubbed them, he took himself out of his comfort zone and has excelled and improved. Given the lack of development at times with Ulster he maybe had the right idea.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 3:11 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:"Honestly, this "every province is beezer except us" is getting genuinely tiresome. We're in a mess at the moment. Absolutely."

All Marty asked was if we'd missed a trick.

Well, without being narky, no, he also referenced Munster and Leinster's ability to keep players. Which is as patchy as ours. I appended a list of players that they had lost. Not many of them come up North, but there's a decent amount of movement otherwise. I don't think we're particularly bad at it.

I also think, given that contacts have to be seen out and players paid, we couldn't afford to have yet another centre on our books. If we have brought in Sean Dougall with the money we could have used to bring in Chris Farrell, that's a much better use of funds. Farrell might be a better player in his position, but we desperately need back rows.

I don;t think we missed a trick, no. Even if Farrell is better than everything we have, we still have excellent centres (on form) already, and poor back row stocks. Money better spent elsewhere.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 3:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:clive, that seems to be the problem.

Geoff, watching Farrell last season he seemed on power with if not better than McCloskey and didn't rely as much on his bulk to break through defences. If his passing has improved then it seems he may be a better option. It seems petty from Ulster to turn their noses up at him because he snubbed them, he took himself out of his comfort zone and has excelled and improved. Given the lack of development at times with Ulster he maybe had the right idea.

I have similar but slightly different memories of Farrell. His handling was poor and he looked nervous when he played for the senior side, but all the hype at the junior grades was he had excellent hands. I remember being really disappointed with his handling and passing when seeing him live because he'd been talked up as much more than a 6'5'' bosch merchant. It's possible he just didn't show the skills he had when given the opportunity.


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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 3:26 pm

marty2086 wrote:ROG speaking about Farrell and his going to Munster, have we missed a trick in not resigning him?

I think we'll see him in the red and green jersey next season.

At six-foot-five and with his variety of skills, he has something to offer at national level that we haven't seen. The guy is the same size as Joe Rokocoko or Donnacha Ryan and he's playing in the centre.

His passing game, left to right and right to left, is really good. He's working with an under the radar coach in Mike Prendergast down at Grenoble and he has been mentoring him for two years. He has been drilling skills into Chris; he's not just a gym monkey.

ROG is talking him up and that's fine. I think there's a degree of overreach with the green jersey comment though. Who's place is he going to take next year? It'd have to be Henshaw. The Leinster lot accept that Payne is a decent shout at 13 but the voices calling for Ringrose will become deafening in the next year or so. If Farrell get's a shot in green it'll be because of injury.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 3:29 pm

Redman wrote:
marty2086 wrote:clive, that seems to be the problem.

Geoff, watching Farrell last season he seemed on power with if not better than McCloskey and didn't rely as much on his bulk to break through defences. If his passing has improved then it seems he may be a better option. It seems petty from Ulster to turn their noses up at him because he snubbed them, he took himself out of his comfort zone and has excelled and improved. Given the lack of development at times with Ulster he maybe had the right idea.

I have similar but slightly different memories of Farrell.  His handling was poor and he looked nervous when he played for the senior side, but all the hype at the junior grades was he had excellent hands.  I remember being really disappointed with his handling and passing when seeing him live because he'd been talked up as much more than a 6'5'' bosch merchant.  It's possible he just didn't show the skills he had when given the opportunity.


Also from memory, wasn't he from Fivemiletown and transferred to one of the bigger schools in his late teens? I don't think he started through our school system.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by marty2086 on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 3:49 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:"Honestly, this "every province is beezer except us" is getting genuinely tiresome. We're in a mess at the moment. Absolutely."

All Marty asked was if we'd missed a trick.

Well, without being narky, no, he also referenced Munster and Leinster's ability to keep players. Which is as patchy as ours. I appended a list of players that they had lost. Not many of them come up North, but there's a  decent amount of movement otherwise. I don't  think we're particularly bad at it.

I also think, given that contacts have to be seen out and players paid, we couldn't afford to have yet another centre on our books. If we have brought  in Sean Dougall with the money we could have used to bring in Chris Farrell, that's a much better use of funds. Farrell might be a better player in his position, but we desperately need back rows.

I don;t think we missed a trick, no. Even if Farrell is better than everything we have, we still have excellent centres (on form) already, and poor back row stocks. Money better spent elsewhere.

I referenced it in that some players seemed to enjoy home comforts over the money and opportunity, we have a case in Pienaar of a guy turning down a big payday to stay in Belfast. I used broad terminology but thought people would know I wasn't meaning every player was the same.

Dougall would be a good signing and I think give some real competition in the back row and one other back row signing wouldn't go a miss either.

For next season though we are losing Wilson, Pienaar and vdM and bringing in another vdM, Cooney and Botha, without knowing the figures my guess is that there would be some room in the budget though that may depend on making the play offs and what happens with Trimble.

You mentioned Ryan leaving Munster earlier, Im betting we see him stay there but he is hoping to get more money out of the IRFU and Munster are hoping to have one less cost but will take the hit if it means keeping him.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by clivemcl on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 4:02 pm

Any inside info on Dom Ryan yet? 27 and the only IQ backrower not tied up for next year. Where do you put his out of interest in a pecking order? Better or worse than Clive Ross? My hunch is better, but I've not really ever watched him closely.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 4:29 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:"Honestly, this "every province is beezer except us" is getting genuinely tiresome. We're in a mess at the moment. Absolutely."

All Marty asked was if we'd missed a trick.

Well, without being narky, no, he also referenced Munster and Leinster's ability to keep players. Which is as patchy as ours. I appended a list of players that they had lost. Not many of them come up North, but there's a  decent amount of movement otherwise. I don't  think we're particularly bad at it.

I also think, given that contacts have to be seen out and players paid, we couldn't afford to have yet another centre on our books. If we have brought  in Sean Dougall with the money we could have used to bring in Chris Farrell, that's a much better use of funds. Farrell might be a better player in his position, but we desperately need back rows.

I don;t think we missed a trick, no. Even if Farrell is better than everything we have, we still have excellent centres (on form) already, and poor back row stocks. Money better spent elsewhere.

I referenced it in that some players seemed to enjoy home comforts over the money and opportunity, we have a case in Pienaar of a guy turning down a big payday to stay in Belfast. I used broad terminology but thought people would know I wasn't meaning every player was the same.

Dougall would be a good signing and I think give some real competition in the back row and one other back row signing wouldn't go a miss either.

For next season though we are losing Wilson, Pienaar and vdM and bringing in another vdM, Cooney and Botha, without knowing the figures my guess is that there would be some room in the budget though that may depend on making the play offs and what happens with Trimble.

You mentioned Ryan leaving Munster earlier, Im betting we see him stay there but he is hoping to get more money out of the IRFU and Munster are hoping to have one less cost but will take the hit if it means keeping him.

Yeah, fair enough. I think the issue was that I had been on UAFC earlier in the day to look for the team and the yapping on that place just drives me up the wall

Don Alfonso

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

Post by Redman on Fri 28 Apr 2017, 5:45 pm

clivemcl wrote:Any inside info on Dom Ryan yet? 27 and the only IQ backrower not tied up for next year. Where do you put his out of interest in a pecking order? Better or worse than Clive Ross? My hunch is better, but I've not really ever watched him closely.

Has to be better. I looked him up before and he has something like 100 or so caps for Leinster. Ross has about 50 for us, and it's got to be tougher to get a cap for Leinster than it is for Ulster in the backrow - even allowing for international call ups.

Dryan ®, as he shall be known if he signs, also has 20 or so U20 caps.

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Re: Ulster 2016/2017

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