Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

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Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by PenfroPete on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 6:19 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39031710

Wales will play Georgia for the first time in the 2017 autumn series.

The Eastern Europeans are a coming force in rugby union and have aspirations of playing in the Six Nations.

They are 12th in the world rankings - two places above Italy - but have played top-tier nations only four times outside of World Cups.

Wales will also face New Zealand, Australia and South Africa in November.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by international198 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 8:20 pm

It'll be interesting to see how good Georgia are. I believe Wales lost against Romania once therefore they could be a banana skin.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by international198 on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 8:37 pm

If they beat Wales next November then they will deserve to be in the Six Nations, IMO.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by RiscaGame on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 10:13 pm

Good to see we have the four AI's again Rolling Eyes


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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Griff on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 10:15 pm

We'll lose the game. No question.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by robbo277 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:45 am

It's definitely a punishing Autumn schedule for Wales 4 months off a Lions tour, if they get good representation it might make it a tough run for them.

It will be an interesting game, Wales have been caught out before on their "weaker" home game in the Autumn Internationals, being run close by Japan last year and Fiji in 2014 and losing to Samoa in 2012. I guess it's a depth issue more than a first XV issue, so it will be interesting to see what side Wales manage to put out and how Georgia do against them.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:51 am

This is a banana skin. Hence Wales should field their strongest team for the Georgia game. Experiment in the others is necessary but this is a must win IMO.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Griff on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:17 am

robbo277 wrote:It's definitely a punishing Autumn schedule for Wales 4 months off a Lions tour, if they get good representation it might make it a tough run for them.

It will be an interesting game, Wales have been caught out before on their "weaker" home game in the Autumn Internationals, being run close by Japan last year and Fiji in 2014 and losing to Samoa in 2012. I guess it's a depth issue more than a first XV issue, so it will be interesting to see what side Wales manage to put out and how Georgia do against them.


You'd think that when we played Japan it was with an experimental or weakened line up.  Unfortunately it was with pretty much our strongest team Sad

Edit:

Wales v Japan: Liam Williams, Leigh Halfpenny, Jonathan Davies, Jamie Roberts, Alex Cuthbert, Gareth Anscombe, Lloyd Williams, Nicky Smith, Scott Baldwin, Samson Lee, Cory Hill, Alun Wyn Jones, Dan Lydiate, Sam Warburton, James King

Only a few fringe players there, and that was because of injury rather than trying out new players.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by TightHEAD on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:21 am

Good for Georgia, about time they had some meaningful games outside of a RWC. - We all have a responsibility to grow the game.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 1:40 pm

I applaud the WRU in following SRU last year and providing a fixture for Georgia.

I would like the RFU to do something similar, and certainly at least use the Saxons maybe to provide games for countries who see their opportunities limited by history.

A double header at Twickenham of England v NZ and Saxons v Romania could work.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by IanBru on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 1:40 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Good for Georgia, about time they had some meaningful games outside of a RWC. - We all have a responsibility to grow the game.
I agree - I don't think Georgia should join the Six Nations - the prison-shaming they received from Scotland in November would indicate that they're not ready. However, the only way they'll improve and then show they are good enough is by playing the big teams more often. As the premier unions in Europe (and obviously as part of the competition Georgia wants to join!) the Six Nations teams have to make fixtures available to Georgia.

Discounting Rugby World Cups and RWC qualifier matches, this is all the fixtures played between the Six Nations teams and Georgia:

September 2003 - versus Italy
November 2014  - versus Ireland
November 2016  - versus Scotland

I looked all the way back to the 1980s, and that's it. England, Wales and France have never played Georgia outside of a World Cup, while Ireland, Italy and Scotland have each played them once.

This is nowhere near enough to make a value judgement on whether Georgia are ready to join the Six Nations.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:23 pm

Anyone know how many games Italy played against 5N sides before inclusion into the 6N?

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by munkian on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:26 pm

LondonTiger wrote:I applaud the WRU in following SRU last year and providing a fixture for Georgia.

I would like the RFU to do something similar, and certainly at least use the Saxons maybe to provide games for countries who see their opportunities limited by history.

A double header at Twickenham of England v NZ and Saxons v Romania could work.

Your first team will tour Georgia before it plays NZ again if they can get away with it kiss
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by IanBru on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:29 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Anyone know how many games Italy played against 5N sides before inclusion into the 6N?
I'm not sure of a number - I'll check later - but I know they had played all of the Five Nations teams at least once each, and had beaten all but England.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:33 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Anyone know how many games Italy played against 5N sides before inclusion into the 6N?
38. Win vs Scotland (1 of 3), France (1 of 20), Ireland (3 of 5). 0-5 against Wales and England.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by bedfordwelsh on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:03 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Good to see we have the four AI's again Rolling Eyes

Haha see what you did there Risca.

I'm sure that when Davies took over I read we were going to drop the 4 AI, guess the money grabbing bug stuck with him like previous.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:16 pm

Who will this game benefit Georgia or Wales?

Will Georgia can any of the gate receipts?

Or is this game designed so that Wales will at least win 1 game in the Ai? Whistle

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by munkian on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:27 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Who will this game benefit Georgia or Wales?

Will Georgia can any of the gate receipts?

Or is this game designed so that Wales will at least win 1 game in the Ai? Whistle

Despite getting 3 wins in our last AI you yoghurt chucker Rolling Eyes
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:50 pm

munkian wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:Or is this game designed so that Wales will at least win 1 game in the Ai? Whistle

Despite getting 3 wins in our last AI you yoghurt chucker Rolling Eyes


There was an article in teh Times today stating that Rob Howley is on a hiding to nothing with (predominantly) Welsh media and fans. It states that the AI results were better than those Gatland had achieved, described the performance last time out as their best since 30-3 in 2013 (and noting Howley was in charge then) yet he is constantly slammed.

Then of course you get the rest of the world joining in, and trying to WUM.



As I said earlier I applaud this move by WRU.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Gwlad on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:42 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Who will this game benefit Georgia or Wales?

Will Georgia can any of the gate receipts?

Or is this game designed so that Wales will at least win 1 game in the Ai? Whistle

no its designed so hat you can get a prediction right. thumbsup

do you think it will be a close game….50 points or so?


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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by ChequeredJersey on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:44 pm

I wish the RFU would do this
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Cyril on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:50 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:I wish the RFU would do this
Fiji seem to be England's adopted Tier 2 nation. 3 games in the last 5 years?

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by munkian on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:01 am

Cyril wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:I wish the RFU would do this
Fiji seem to be England's adopted Tier 2 nation. 3 games in the last 5 years?

Makes it easy to scout for potential new England caps.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Scottrf on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:08 am

munkian wrote:
Cyril wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:I wish the RFU would do this
Fiji seem to be England's adopted Tier 2 nation. 3 games in the last 5 years?

Makes it easy to scout for potential new England caps.
Easier for you, you play England in the 6 Nations.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by cascough on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:12 am

Cyril wrote:
ChequeredJersey wrote:I wish the RFU would do this
Fiji seem to be England's adopted Tier 2 nation. 3 games in the last 5 years?

Makes sense. There's a huge Fijian population in London.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 22 Feb 2017, 9:20 am

ChequeredJersey wrote:I wish the RFU would do this

We already give Wales a game in england every two years to help support them.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Shifty on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 7:29 pm

international198 wrote:It'll be interesting to see how good Georgia are. I believe Wales lost against Romania once therefore they could be a banana skin.

Once? I wish it was only once...
They stuffed us in 1983, with a score of 24-6.
Then in 1988 they beat the team that finished third in the world cup, and won a triple crown 15-9 in Cardiff. Jonathan Davies was hounded out of Welsh rugby as a result of that. Our first ever win was in 1994, which was very lucky in a World Cup qualifier. Doh

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Shifty on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 7:37 pm

ChequeredJersey wrote:I wish the RFU would do this

It has never worked for England. They adopted a policy like this at the turn of the century.
Every time they have pushed the boat out and helped develop rugby in tier B countries, England end up crushing the touring team.
Think back to what they did to countries like:

England 134 - 0 Romania
England 110 - 0 Netherlands
England 111 - 13 Uruguay
England 106 - 8 United States
England 101 - 10 Tonga
England 84 - 6 Georgia

Those scores don't help anyone. The point being is you blood a few new caps in these games, but historically speaking Englands second and third choice players are not much inferior to their first choice.

On the other hand we have seen with Wales for example that when they rest key players that they nearly always slip on the banana skin.
Japan only just lost to Wales in November, and did lose on the last Lions tour when they went to Japan, Fiji drew in cardiff a few years ago. Samoa smashed Wales in Cardiff a few years ago etc.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Griff on Fri 24 Feb 2017, 8:15 pm

I thought that the IRB/World Rugby influenced the fixtures these days? Or are the AIs out of their jurisdiction? I know they ensure that the 6 nations teams tour some of the smaller nations on the summer tours, rather than just arrange tours to the big nations, hence Wales to Japan and Tonga, etc. So I'm sure England will be touring such nations in the summer going forward. But not sure, as I say, how the AIs are arranged.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Gwlad on Sat 25 Feb 2017, 6:10 pm

Sack Howley

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Shifty on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 8:14 am

Griff wrote:I thought that the IRB/World Rugby influenced the fixtures these days? Or are the AIs out of their jurisdiction? I know they ensure that the 6 nations teams tour some of the smaller nations on the summer tours, rather than just arrange tours to the big nations, hence Wales to Japan and Tonga, etc. So I'm sure England will be touring such nations in the summer going forward. But not sure, as I say, how the AIs are arranged.

The IRB create the fixtures on rotation every 8 years.  The next lot I think are due in 2019 but New Zealand have opted out of the system because they want countries to share the gate takings, instead of being paid a retainer.  The European teams obviously don't want this as New Zealand have 30,000 seater stadiums and the 6 NAtions have 60-80k seater stadiums.

Personally I'm expecting a split in 2019, I'd b just as happy to increase the size of the 6 Nations and not play the Sanzaar teams.

Just for reference it's called the "World Rugby tours programme".
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 1:44 pm

Personally, I back New Zealand, and would be on their side for a 'sharing gate receipts' system, and favour very much keeping the SH sides on our roster.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Shifty on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 3:19 pm

SecretFly wrote:Personally, I back New Zealand, and would be on their side for a 'sharing gate receipts' system, and favour very much keeping the SH sides on our roster.

So you want to favour New Zealand who only spend money on small stadiums, against even smaller countries like Wales, Scotland, and Ireland who invested in huge national stadia to try and generate enough money to fund the professional game?

You do understand if this New Zealand system happens, it's basically the end of professional rugby in 4 of the 6 nations as it's money generated from the international game that funds pro rugby in those countries.

The only major country that would benefit from this is New Zealand, I'd be happy for them to leave the international game than kill it in Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 3:40 pm

Shifty wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Personally, I back New Zealand, and would be on their side for a 'sharing gate receipts' system, and favour very much keeping the SH sides on our roster.

So you want to favour New Zealand who only spend money on small stadiums, against even smaller countries like Wales, Scotland, and Ireland who invested in huge national stadia to try and generate enough money to fund the professional game?

You do understand if this New Zealand system happens, it's basically the end of professional rugby in 4 of the 6 nations as it's money generated from the international game that funds pro rugby in those countries.  

The only major country that would benefit from this is New Zealand, I'd be happy for them to leave the international game than kill it in Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy.  

I don't see how you see it's the end of Professional rugby...wouldn't Scotland, Wales and Ireland then share gate receipts from playing in Lansdowne, Paris, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Principality?

plus a condition of any agreement could I'm sure demand an increase in capacity of stadiums within an agreed period in NZ.

I don't see the doomsday scenario at all.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Shifty on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 4:39 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Shifty wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Personally, I back New Zealand, and would be on their side for a 'sharing gate receipts' system, and favour very much keeping the SH sides on our roster.

So you want to favour New Zealand who only spend money on small stadiums, against even smaller countries like Wales, Scotland, and Ireland who invested in huge national stadia to try and generate enough money to fund the professional game?

You do understand if this New Zealand system happens, it's basically the end of professional rugby in 4 of the 6 nations as it's money generated from the international game that funds pro rugby in those countries.  

The only major country that would benefit from this is New Zealand, I'd be happy for them to leave the international game than kill it in Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy.  

I don't see how you see it's the end of Professional rugby...wouldn't Scotland, Wales and Ireland then share gate receipts from playing in Lansdowne, Paris, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Principality?

plus a condition of any agreement could I'm sure demand an increase in capacity of stadiums within an agreed period in NZ.

I don't see the doomsday scenario at all.

It would still be a huge net loss from the November games. IF this happens I'd rather expand or double up on the 6 NAtions and dump them to be honest.
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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 6:34 pm

Dumping SH is running away from them and running away from the many familial ties too across those Nations. I have more relatives in America and Australia than I have in any European nation, including England.

I'm sorry but two or three games against Wales or England in a year wouldn't be close to the impact of just one against Australia, SA or New Zealand.  People have to realise - whether they like it or not - so far, and for a long time, NZ are the draw and the market place to add gloss to any series.

I'm not at all for European navel gazing 'derby' games.  I'm sick of the sight of our local bunch, whether that's in Pro12, in European Competition or onto the 6N.  It's great in itself but enough is enough - the SH are a breath of fresh air when they come or when we travel down.  And I seriously don't think the NZ proposal would in any way threaten the existence of Scottish, Welsh or Irish rugby.... and just think of the advantages if more games were played in a place like America over the next decade or so.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 6:39 pm

Shifty wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Personally, I back New Zealand, and would be on their side for a 'sharing gate receipts' system, and favour very much keeping the SH sides on our roster.

So you want to favour New Zealand who only spend money on small stadiums, against even smaller countries like Wales, Scotland, and Ireland who invested in huge national stadia to try and generate enough money to fund the professional game?

You do understand if this New Zealand system happens, it's basically the end of professional rugby in 4 of the 6 nations as it's money generated from the international game that funds pro rugby in those countries.  

The only major country that would benefit from this is New Zealand, I'd be happy for them to leave the international game than kill it in Wales, Scotland, Ireland and Italy.  

It would be a massive help to the Pacific Islanders too, think you need to look beyond New Zealand and their undoubted childishness and see who else it would benefit. Ultimately though the countries with bigger stadia would only play teams with equally big stadia.

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Re: Wales to play Georgia in 2017 AI

Post by Shifty on Sun 26 Feb 2017, 7:15 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:It would be a massive help to the Pacific Islanders too, think you need to look beyond New Zealand and their undoubted childishness and see who else it would benefit. Ultimately though the countries with bigger stadia would only play teams with equally big stadia.

Look at it this way, New Zealand could fly in and play England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland, all within frisby distance of each other. Where as Wales could tour New Zealand play 3 tests and be all over the place playing in front of 20k-30k people. It's a crazy idea.

The pacific nations are an issue I agree, but they are small islands with a few hundred thousand people on them. Also some of them are third world economies. Many clubs already have academies in those countries and even more talented young players are given academy places in New Zealand and Australia.
You also have to look at the level of fraud in those countries, Tonga were almost banned for fraud in their union due to money vanishing.
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