England vs Italy

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England vs Italy

Post by nathan on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 9:01 pm

28 players that have been kept.

Forwards (16): Jack Clifford (Harlequins), Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Jamie George (Saracens), Teimana Harrison (Northampton Saints), Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints), James Haskell (Wasps), Nathan Hughes (Wasps), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Joe Launchbury (Wasps), Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints), Joe Marler (Harlequins), Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins), Mako Vunipola (Saracens), Mike Williams (Leicester Tigers), Tom Wood (Northampton Saints)

Backs (12): Mike Brown (Harlequins), Danny Care (Harlequins), Elliot Daly (Wasps), Owen Farrell (Saracens), George Ford (Bath), Jonathan Joseph (Bath), Jonny May (Gloucester), Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs), Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs), Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors), Anthony Watson (Bath), Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers)

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 10:43 pm

Club section nathan, can one of the admins move it over?

Even with injuries, the strength in depth in that squad is impressive. What are people's views of Te'o? He started coming good in Leinster middle of last season, slow to pick up Union. Curious that he and Burgess switched codes similar time from the same Rabbitohs side but while one was aloud to develop the other was rushed through with medjia all over every minute detail of play.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by nathan on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 7:18 am

Oops

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:28 am

Moved

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:54 am

I wonder is Mike Williams and Slade will get a shot. I like to think that this England side is good enough to allow 1 or 2 experiments while keeping the core relatively unchanged.

Mako V should really be an impact off the bench - I wouldn't want to risk him so soon after injury.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by robbo277 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:59 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Club section nathan, can one of the admins move it over?

Even with injuries, the strength in depth in that squad is impressive.  What are people's views of Te'o?  He started coming good in Leinster middle of last season, slow to pick up Union.  Curious that he and Burgess switched codes similar time from the same Rabbitohs side but while one was aloud to develop the other was rushed through with medjia all over every minute detail of play.

Te'o's a big guy but he doesn't run straight lines, which makes him more of a handful for defences.

I wouldn't be in a rush to abandon 2 play-makers mid-tournament, so would keep Te'o as an impact option off the bench, but assuming he's fit this summer I'd look at giving him the away series at 12, with Farrell unlikely to be available for England. Hopefully he'll give us a real option of two different styles of play next season.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 9:59 am

I'm worried about our depth at hooker. Jamie George has had a lot of Test match game time recently, but we really don't know how well our third choice can go in the heat of battle.

I would think there is a good case for standing the Saracens man down against Italy to see how Taylor can perform.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:04 am

laughing Yahoo Whistle warning

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by BamBam on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:05 am


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Re: England vs Italy

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:06 am

Serious point on Taylor...

I don't think he or Cowan-Dickie will see much game time under Jones until their basics improve.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:11 am

I actually think that this will be Hartley's last tournament. He was described by Jones as being the "foundation captain". This summer, whether he is on the Lions tour or not Jones will surely be looking at the next players on his list, so quite possibly Taylor and LCD will be competing to be George's backup.

Who else might be on the radar?

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:12 am

This is going to be a massacre.

I fear this could be England's record score against Italy.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:23 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:This is going to be a massacre.

I fear this could be England's record score against Italy.

I struggle to see England scoring the 80 points they managed in 2001, but hopefully they will concede less than the 23 they did in that game. Interestingly all Italy's points were scored in the first half, during which they led for a while and were still level until a Balshaw try in the 34th minute. England scored 47 unanswered points in the second half. A similar performance would probably see as much criticism as praise.

I feel this is almost a "no-win" game for England. Whatever they do will either be deemed not good enough or will be accompanied by references to Italy's abilities.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:24 am

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:This is going to be a massacre.

I fear this could be England's record score against Italy.
I often feel we underperform when the expectations are so heavily weighted towards us. It only takes a slow start for everyone to start getting a bit restless.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:28 am

Handicap for this game is at 42. Insane. Still 18 points off the record margin. Italy are 40/1 which is quite embarrassing.
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by TightHEAD on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:30 am

Lets give Italy some respect, surely they can't play as badly as they have done for the past two games again!

I just want to see England be disciplined throughout the game and not force it. There is a danger everyone will want to score tries and more often than not you end up making mistake after mistake in that situation.

Just keep the score board ticking over Lads.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:32 am

80/1 on Betfair

110/1 for HT/FT which tbf, is probably the better bet if you fancy chucking a couple of quid at it. I mean, if Italy ARE going to win I can't see them coming from behind.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:34 am

Italy will be sh*tting themselves. They got truly pumped by Ireland at home. Even the highs of beating SA in the Autumn disappeared after the Wales game.

I honestly think Italy will struggle to score 6 points.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by TrailApe on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:38 am

I just want to see England be disciplined throughout the game and not force it

Same here - nowt flash but grind them down and when they are down give them a good kicking and rip them several new orifices so that they bleed tries.

No Mercy No Quarter.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Cumbrian on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 10:53 am

I feel terribly arrogant saying it, but this game is about the bonus point. We need to get it nailed down as quickly as possible because if we miss out it could make all the difference come the end of the Championship. I don't want players getting jittery and to start making silly mistakes.

I feel bad for Italy because I really want them to be better and to be a bigger challenge, but that is not the reality of the situation right now.
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:02 am

Yeah this could be a bit of a seal pup clubbing. It will not be a pretty sight.
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by beshocked on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:20 am

robbo277 wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Club section nathan, can one of the admins move it over?

Even with injuries, the strength in depth in that squad is impressive.  What are people's views of Te'o?  He started coming good in Leinster middle of last season, slow to pick up Union.  Curious that he and Burgess switched codes similar time from the same Rabbitohs side but while one was aloud to develop the other was rushed through with medjia all over every minute detail of play.

Te'o's a big guy but he doesn't run straight lines, which makes him more of a handful for defences.

I wouldn't be in a rush to abandon 2 play-makers mid-tournament, so would keep Te'o as an impact option off the bench, but assuming he's fit this summer I'd look at giving him the away series at 12, with Farrell unlikely to be available for England. Hopefully he'll give us a real option of two different styles of play next season.

Teo has impressed me so far. I don't think the 2 playmakers has actually been particularly effective so far in the tournament.

I've always favoured having a bludgeon and rapier in the centres.

Too many backline players out of form and not enough cutting edge.

3 tries in 2 games isn't great. 2 of them have been with the reinforcements on the pitch.

Sure the Italian game will inevitably boost the try count but it was tough going breaking down France and Wales till those reinforcements turned the tide.

Not every rugby league player has struggled with the switch - look at Denny Solomona.

There was just so much pressure put on Burgess. Plus he was probably picked in the wrong position.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:28 am

Is Solomona someone who is looking for England representation? Burgess was handled so badly in a rush for pre-WC readiness.
Given time to develop and a bit of sympathetic management and he would have been a great resource for the RFU.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:30 am

He becomes available in the autumn. I find it hard to believe Jones hasn't already had a chat but there's been no indication on who he'll represrnt; ignoring the fact he's al ready played for Samoa at league.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by doctor_grey on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:32 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:He becomes available in the autumn. I find it hard to believe Jones hasn't already had a chat but there's been no indication on who he'll represrnt; ignoring the fact he's al ready played for Samoa at league.
He sure can finish, though.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by propdavid_london on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:35 am

If he is keen, and the residency rules aren't changed then he would be an interesting one to take on the England tour of Argentina.
He is certainly making more of an impact than Josh Charnley at Sale.........although we are going a bit off topic here.


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Re: England vs Italy

Post by TightHEAD on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:37 am

Tries will come vs Italy this year but we must stick to our game plan.

Individuals wanting to up their scoring stats could cause us problems but I'm sure Eddie has it covered.

England by 40+ in 4th gear.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by BamBam on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:44 am

Apparently Sale think he qualifies in March .. but there doesn't seem to be any definitive answer

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:52 am

I thought initially it was given when he moved to Broncos so February then read it was the Autumn but then just seen this.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/denny-solomona-want-play-england-9859562.amp

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:53 am

Solomona signed for London Broncos in January 2014, he then agreed a move to Castleford in July 2014 having played 17 times for the Broncos.

Technically I guess his residency starts from whenever his first RL contract over here started - even if I believe that to be pants.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 11:59 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:He becomes available in the autumn. I find it hard to believe Jones hasn't already had a chat but there's been no indication on who he'll represrnt; ignoring the fact he's al ready played for Samoa at league.

Dear lord I hope not....

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Scottrf on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:01 pm

If he's good enough he's English enough Cool
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:01 pm

LondonTiger wrote:Solomona signed for London Broncos in January 2014, he then agreed a move to Castleford in July 2014 having played 17 times for the Broncos.

Technically I guess his residency starts from whenever his first RL contract over here started - even if I believe that to be pants.

Exactly the same as Henry Paul, Vainkolo etc etc. Playing for NZ in league but because they played in England for English clubs, their residency began in accordance to Union availability.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:02 pm

Scottrf wrote:If he's good enough he's English enough Cool

Ah mate, I just cant bring any liking for him playing for England. Very similar to Hughes. I haven't warmed to him and probably wont.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by GeordieFalcon on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:03 pm

Back to the game though.

Im not expecting a massacre. it "should" be a comfortable win but I don't think it'll be huge.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by LondonTiger on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:03 pm

This will be why Sale thing the 8th March

http://www.totalrl.com/solomona-named-broncos-squad-face-wolves/

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by BamBam on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:08 pm

Yeah that was the same thing I saw LT and 7.5, Eddie will be on top of it I'm sure

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:22 pm

I think the most England have won by is about 45 in recent years. Id say it will be something similar.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by munkian on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:34 pm

England have been made to work for every slight win so far, I don't see this being a 'massacre'
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Tattie Scones RRN on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:50 pm

munkian wrote:England have been made to work for every slight win so far, I don't see this being a 'massacre'

Yeah against France and Wales.

I'll be astounded if England don't put at least, if not more, on them as much as Ireland did.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by munkian on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:51 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
munkian wrote:England have been made to work for every slight win so far, I don't see this being a 'massacre'

Yeah against France and Wales.

I'll be astounded if England don't put at least, if not more, on them as much as Ireland did.

Ireland had their tails up after losing to Scotland and have their attacking play nailed down.
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by cascough on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 12:54 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
munkian wrote:England have been made to work for every slight win so far, I don't see this being a 'massacre'

Yeah against France and Wales.

I'll be astounded if England don't put at least, if not more, on them as much as Ireland did.

Astounded?

Christ, we really are on a hiding to nothing.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:21 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:
munkian wrote:England have been made to work for every slight win so far, I don't see this being a 'massacre'

Yeah against France and Wales.

I'll be astounded if England don't put at least, if not more, on them as much as Ireland did.

Surely astounded is a bit strong? 53 points is a big margin. I think England have only won that much a couple of times v Italy.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by TightHEAD on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:30 pm

I think the only reason Ireland ran up a big score was that the Italians looked like they gave up during the 2nd half and wanted to swap sides......again!
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by Cyril on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:34 pm

You've got to love the way that Ireland losing to Scotland and beating Italy is somehow more impressive than England beating France and Wales.


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Re: England vs Italy

Post by munkian on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:42 pm

Cyril wrote:You've got to love the way that Ireland losing to Scotland and beating Italy is somehow more impressive than England beating France and Wales.


Whose said that ?
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by robbo277 on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:43 pm

England's average score against Italy is 40-12 - that's all time though.

In recent years, (last 10 encounters), Italy have not managed to pass 20 points.

England scored 59 points in 2011, topped 50 in 2014 and hit 40 in the previous two years.

But if you take out the aberration of Bergamasco at scrum half in 2009, in 2007 to 2013 (2009 and 2011 excepted as mentioned), England struggled to score against Italy though and only once passed 20 and never passed 30.

There are two types of game when England play Italy. England score freely and put Italy to the sword, or England struggle and it's much tighter. Strangely, home or away doesn't appear to have that much of an impact, as 2 of England's big scores were at home and 2 were away.

I think England's defence should be enough to keep Italy out for large periods of the match, and I can't see them breaking form and scoring buckets of points. It will come down to how many points England can put on Italy.

I'm expecting some, 4 tries and a bonus point, but not 60. 60 points is rare. Maybe 5/6 tries and mid to late 40s. I think anything less would be a little disappointing. Any more will just serve to prove how rubbish Italy are, and not how good England are.

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Re: England vs Italy

Post by munkian on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:44 pm

robbo277 wrote:England's average score against Italy is 40-12 - that's all time though.

In recent years, (last 10 encounters), Italy have not managed to pass 20 points.

England scored 59 points in 2011, topped 50 in 2014 and hit 40 in the previous two years.

But if you take out the aberration of Bergamasco at scrum half in 2009, in 2007 to 2013 (2009 and 2011 excepted as mentioned), England struggled to score against Italy though and only once passed 20 and never passed 30.

There are two types of game when England play Italy. England score freely and put Italy to the sword, or England struggle and it's much tighter. Strangely, home or away doesn't appear to have that much of an impact, as 2 of England's big scores were at home and 2 were away.

I think England's defence should be enough to keep Italy out for large periods of the match, and I can't see them breaking form and scoring buckets of points. It will come down to how many points England can put on Italy.

I'm expecting some, 4 tries and a bonus point, but not 60. 60 points is rare. Maybe 5/6 tries and mid to late 40s. I think anything less would be a little disappointing. Any more will just serve to prove how rubbish Italy are, and not how good England are.

This
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by TightHEAD on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 2:47 pm

Cyril wrote:You've got to love the way that Ireland losing to Scotland and beating Italy is somehow more impressive than England beating France and Wales.


Ah but its all about the Irish Crac. Leprechaun
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Re: England vs Italy

Post by majesticimperialman on Tue 21 Feb 2017, 3:05 pm

Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Italy will be sh*tting themselves. They got truly pumped by Ireland at home. Even the highs of beating SA in the Autumn disappeared after the Wales game.

I honestly think Italy will struggle to score 6 points.


Italy will score atleast 6 points due to England's indisapline. some one on the England side will give away a penalty or 2 with in kicking range.

I do expect England to come out with a big score. But i also think Italy wil put up a bit of a fight. They all ways do in the first half.l

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