The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

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The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by No9 on Mon 27 Feb 2017, 2:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

1) Hartley - Not a chance. Playing like a Muppet, being sub'd each game, because he's not up to it. As it stands, unlikely to go on the tour, never the less be Capt.

2) Alun Wyn - Blown it. Was the first choice (IMO). Set up for him, with Warbs standing down as Welsh Capt, but AWJ loathing of being interviewed and the appalling Welsh team performance has ruined his chance of Lions Capt. The nail in the coffin being his comment this week, that he wanted to kick the penalties but Biggar and Halfpenny didn't want to..... WTF... WHO'S CAPT!!!

3) Laidlaw - Not sure of a starting place as Lions 9, and with injuries, will he be ready for the tour.


which, IMO has pushes Rory Best into the pole position for Lions Capt. With the exception of Brown, he's been the on form hooker this 6 Nations, and as Gats has already stated he would like the Lions capt to also captain his country, Best is now the first choice.

... But Warbs is a good outsider, has he's been there, works well with Gats and has the professional attitude needed. He handles the media well and is starting to show return in his form.

Thoughts...

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:58 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Just occurred to me that, if Hartley does manage to make the tour, then he'll be the first current England captain to be selected for the Lion since 2005. Steve Borthwick and Chris Robshaw both missed out.

 Not a case of 'if' RF, Hartley will make the tour. so will Robshaw if he recovers.
Don't think Robshaw will be selected, even though he wouldn't let anyone down. Hartley is certainly in line for selection but injury or disciplinary action could still see him miss out.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by aucklandlaurie on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 2:51 am

Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Just occurred to me that, if Hartley does manage to make the tour, then he'll be the first current England captain to be selected for the Lion since 2005. Steve Borthwick and Chris Robshaw both missed out.

 Not a case of 'if' RF, Hartley will make the tour. so will Robshaw if he recovers.

Robshaw? Assuming CJ Stander and Warburton and Itoje are kidnapped by the Men In Black, Robshaw might tour. Otherwise, zero chance. He is a journeyman, an ex captain who lead his team to ignominy at a RWC, with no discernible x factor that would indicate he is Lions material. Nor will he have had the opportunity to demonstrate his form in the 6 Nations and thus unless he has a star rep - he does not - his selection is unjustifiable.

 When fit, Robshaw is the hardest working International forward in Britain. hard work is an attribute valued very highly by some.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by aucklandlaurie on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 3:26 am

Just something else.

Bryn Gatland has been called into the Crusaders squad as first five, I'm just trying to imagine the interest that would arise should he play for the Crusaders against The Lions in June.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Gwlad on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 3:52 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Just occurred to me that, if Hartley does manage to make the tour, then he'll be the first current England captain to be selected for the Lion since 2005. Steve Borthwick and Chris Robshaw both missed out.

 Not a case of 'if' RF, Hartley will make the tour. so will Robshaw if he recovers.

Robshaw? Assuming CJ Stander and Warburton and Itoje are kidnapped by the Men In Black, Robshaw might tour. Otherwise, zero chance. He is a journeyman, an ex captain who lead his team to ignominy at a RWC, with no discernible x factor that would indicate he is Lions material. Nor will he have had the opportunity to demonstrate his form in the 6 Nations and thus unless he has a star rep - he does not - his selection is unjustifiable.

 When fit, Robshaw is the hardest working International forward in Britain. hard work is an attribute valued very highly by some.

Gwlad

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Must work harder, never going to set world on fire but if he works hard he might flip burgers etc etc.

Hard working is a crock. Was McCaw or Kronfeld or Jones a 'hard worker'?

No they were much more, hard worker is how you describe a guy who has nowt all else to offer, a la Robshaw

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by aucklandlaurie on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 4:16 am

Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:Just occurred to me that, if Hartley does manage to make the tour, then he'll be the first current England captain to be selected for the Lion since 2005. Steve Borthwick and Chris Robshaw both missed out.

 Not a case of 'if' RF, Hartley will make the tour. so will Robshaw if he recovers.

Robshaw? Assuming CJ Stander and Warburton and Itoje are kidnapped by the Men In Black, Robshaw might tour. Otherwise, zero chance. He is a journeyman, an ex captain who lead his team to ignominy at a RWC, with no discernible x factor that would indicate he is Lions material. Nor will he have had the opportunity to demonstrate his form in the 6 Nations and thus unless he has a star rep - he does not - his selection is unjustifiable.

 When fit, Robshaw is the hardest working International forward in Britain. hard work is an attribute valued very highly by some.

Gwlad

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Must work harder, never going to set world on fire but if he works hard he might flip burgers etc etc.

Hard working is a crock. Was McCaw or Kronfeld or Jones a 'hard worker'?

No they were much more, hard worker is how you describe a guy who has nowt all else to offer, a la Robshaw

 I think you misunderstand the term in relation to forwards Gwlad, rather than compare his contribution to that of a number of All black opensides you might be better to compare him to some one who goes out there jumps, lifts, tackles and moves bodies for 80. ie a Jerome Kaino. but hey, everyone to their own.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Scottrf on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 5:38 am

gavstar wrote:Any of the above posters who wrongly accused you, dan biggar ,of overruling your captain etc etc now know they were wrong......but they wouldn't say that now would they ?.......
Because after a few days they've come up with a story for the press?

The video shows what happened. If you believe AWJ made the decision good luck to you.
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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Cyril on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 8:11 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Cyril wrote:NZ must be finding this very amusing Laugh

 Probably more confusing than amusing.

 But its very important that we see who the Lions bring down here as fullbacks, as it may well influence who Hansen plays at fullback, rather than just going for Ben from accounts it may well be better to play him on the wing and use either Dagg or Barrett at fullback possibly even McKenzie. at this stage Bennny will be vice captain and that is another tangent for consideration.

 Do you guys have any thoughts as to who you see as being Lions vice captain should Hartley go off injured or red carded?
I doubt the Lions will win a mid-week game never mind challenge in the tests. Pick whoever you like, it won't make a difference with the tactics and personnel we'll be employing.

#endthelionsnow

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 9:23 am

It's importance to have balance.

Robshaw is excellent if you have enough ball carriers around him because his workrate very high indeed.

Not the most effective ball carrier though. Shouldn't be a lack of ball carrying in the Lions pack though.

Think it's harsh to call Robshaw a journeyman Gwlad. He just has his strengths and weaknesses. Offers a lot though. Just don't expect him to play like a Stander and Billy.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 9:38 am

Chris Robshaw is IMO England's best forward. Even better than the insanely hyped Itoje.
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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 9:55 am

Shocked To be fair Itoje is insanely hyped but he's a talisman. He's a player whose come into the England side and looks mostly at ease at international level. Very few players have made as quick a transition as him.

He stands out for numerous reasons - the way he looks, the way he plays, his combative style, he's more eloquent than almost all the other England players.

He's not the messiah though - still needs to improve his discipline, ball carrying and he's not as quick as others.

Entitled to your opinion Ruggerradge. I think England's best forward is Billy V. When England lost Billy to injury in the 2015 RWC, they lost to Wales and got hammered by the Aussies. Without Billy this year in the 6 nations they've lacked his go forward.

I think Robshaw is in danger of going from underappreciated/underhyped to overhyped.

He's good sure but he needs players around him to make him effective, put him in a pack lacking ball carriers and he'll find it much harder because he doesn't offer it himself.

I think England can handle Robshaw's absence better than Billy's personally.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Barney McGrew did it on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 9:58 am

Robshaw and Itoje are polar opposites on the PR front. But arguably, for England, Robshaw is missed more than Maro would be. Just look at how the current England BR has struggled for balance (admittedly we were/are originally also missing Haskell & Billy). Robshaw’s work rate allows the rest of the English team time and space to do their jobs. He will slot straight back into the team. And will be part of the Lions if fit.
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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Totalflanker on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:04 am

Throwing a name in that I've not seen mentioned - Peter O'Mahony.....At first glance certainly not an obvious consideration but.......

- Appreciate might be a dark horse as an option.
- From all that has gone on I think we are looking at a tour captain rather than a test Captain and don't necessarily think he makes the test team, but on a tour may force the point.
- For me I was glad he didn't play against Scotland as genuinely believe a tight loss might have turned into a tight win had he been fit.
- AWJ would have been a shoe in even though again tour captain because don't see him as starter, but given how Wales has gone this year and in particular some of the captaincy indecision and chat that has gone on, potentially no longer the unifying force.
- POM on the other hand as figurehead and someone folks follow through brick walls, I don't see anyone better from this point of view. All other candidates are good but have a 'BUT' next to there name.
- Believe his leadership of Munster this year especially following Anthony Foley's passing shows the maturity and commitment of someone who just gets it. Added to which as a Glasgow fan I would prefer anyone else on the pitch but him in a match against us - if things carry on in Europe in the same vein I see Munster winning the tournament with him at the helm. He has a steel about him.



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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:09 am

If you took out Itoje and put in Robshaw you'd still lose Itoje's pushing power in the scrum, his ability in the lineout and his general power. Plus Itoje is one of the more intelligent rugby players in the team.

You lose things with Itoje not in the team. Itoje's handling is also just as good as Robshaw.

Robshaw is faster and has better discipline. His workrate is also higher though Itoje's isn't low.

To be honest if Robshaw comes back in, it's Lawes who would make way not Itoje.

Totalflanker sorry I don't see it. A few Irish candidates but don't see O Mahony being one.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:15 am

Again Billy V is good but lots of teams have a large abraisive ball carrier. For me Billy isn't any better than Picamoles, or Stander. Or better than Reid or Faletau.

Robshaw however he is the sort of player that does all the dirty work, he tidies up all the loose ball, he slows the opposition ball down, he makes turnovers, he quietly leads the team through deeds instead of words. He is England's Paul O'Connel or McCaw and his absence this 6N has been obvious. Particularly in the Italy game. I reckon he would have seen through that "Volpe" tactic pretty quickly.

He is IMO Englands best player, followed very closely by Joe Launchberry and Owen Farrell (despite an off day last weekend).
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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:32 am

True lots of teams have large abrasive ball carriers but I think Billy is the pick of the bunch.

I think the only no 8 who can match him is Read though they are different players.

Picamoles benefited from not having to face Billy.

He also is one of those ball carriers who can truck up the ball from a standing start.

Wales became weaker when Faletau came on for Moriarty. Don't expect the same on Saturday!

Robshaw does indeed do all those things that you say but he wouldn't help with ball carrying. He's one of the more intelligent players agreed.

I think the gap between Hughes and Billy has been greater than Itoje and Robshaw - Itoje has had a pretty good tournament.

Think we've lost more with Billy out personally.

Itoje also has run the lineout and been in the 2nd row in the scrum because he's supposedly the 2nd strongest 2nd row scrummager after Kruis.

Itoje and Robshaw are completely different players who have their own strengths and weaknesses. Ideally England will look to play both.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Cyril on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:36 am

Speaking of Picamoles has been the best player in 6 Nations by some distance so far.

He's the best 8 in NH at the moment, though Billy will probably take that back once he's playing regularly.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by rodders on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:51 am

I'd say Heaslip is no 1 in the NH at the minute.

He's playing the best rugby of his career, although having Stander alongside him seems to be freeing him up to play further out from the ruck.
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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 10:56 am

rodders wrote:I'd say Heaslip is no 1 in the NH at the minute.

He's playing the best rugby of his career, although having Stander alongside him seems to be freeing him up to play further out from the ruck.

Speaking as a representative fan of the only country to have played both Ireland and France, Picamoles caused us much greater problems than either Stander or Heaslip. Both of whom were marked out of the game by Watson and then Barclay.

Mind you Picamoles may have just looked utterly devestating because we practically ran out of backrow players to throw at him with Hardie and Barclay both off with concussions and Strauss playing on with a bruised kidney and Watson having to play the full 80 against a terrifyingly physical french team.
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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:16 am

rodders wrote:I'd say Heaslip is no 1 in the NH at the minute.

He's playing the best rugby of his career, although having Stander alongside him seems to be freeing him up to play further out from the ruck.

Heaslip is well down the pecking order imo, although he had a great few tests against the AB's.

Itoje seems to be suffering from 2nd season syndrome, he's struggling to get into games as much as when he first broke through. The hype should subside soon as he's failing to deliver on the pitch.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:21 am

Sgt Poorly another comment which shows that you don't watch much rugby.

Itoje wasn't struggling vs Italy, he was one of our best players.

Against France and Wales who was playing in a poor backrow with Wood ineffectual,Clifford struggling and Hughes a level or two below Billy. Context is important.


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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:22 am

Cyril wrote:Speaking of Picamoles has been the best player in 6 Nations by some distance so far.

He's the best 8 in NH at the moment, though Billy will probably take that back once he's playing regularly.

Nah Hogg has been easily the best player in the 6 nations. Picamoles has carried very well but he hasnt been as influential as Hogg who played a big part in two wins.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:25 am

It's Pooly thumbsup

Itoje has struggled for me, he's not impressed in any game. If Robshaw was fit I imagine he'd be looking at a spell on the bench.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:28 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
rodders wrote:I'd say Heaslip is no 1 in the NH at the minute.

He's playing the best rugby of his career, although having Stander alongside him seems to be freeing him up to play further out from the ruck.

Heaslip is well down the pecking order imo, although he had a great few tests against the AB's.

Itoje seems to be suffering from 2nd season syndrome, he's struggling to get into games as much as when he first broke through. The hype should subside soon as he's failing to deliver on the pitch.

Moriarty and Heaslip have been the best 8s. Heaslip will more than likely be selected for the Lions tour. He nearly always plays really well in a Lions jersey. Strauss has been good too. Hughes has been muck. Billy V and Heaslip will travel and Moriarty/Faletau will provide the back up. Hughes hasn't a hope and Strauss probably wont be considered.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:29 am

Gunsgermsv2 Hogg has been good but he's had an awful lot of help from Russell and the other Scottish players to get the best from him whilst Picamoles hasn't had much support from his fellow Frenchmen.

Hogg's been getting the plaudits whilst his less glamorous Scottish colleagues have been doing more of the donkey work/pulling the strings.

Sgt Pooly you must have missed the Italy game because Itoje was excellent. Don't need to even believe me, read the ratings in the media, look at the stats, re-watch the game and look at what Itoje does - bundling a frightened Italian into touch, bossing the lineout both in defence and attack, some great handling, 3 turnovers and so on.

It's not debatable.


Last edited by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:29 am

The pack in general have been lethargic. Launchbury dragging us through. Not sure I'd go with 2nd season syndrome for Itoje bur more quite a few changes in the pack including position for him which takes a bit of time to bed in. That said if Jones decided he is a lock alone it would be back to the bench for him.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:32 am

beshocked wrote:Gunsgermsv2 Hogg has been good but he's had an awful lot of help from Russell and the other Scottish players to get the best from him whilst Picamoles hasn't had much support from his fellow Frenchmen.

Hogg's been getting the plaudits whilst his less glamorous Scottish colleagues have been doing more of the donkey work/pulling the strings.

You just dont like Hogg because he is Scottish and much better than any of the English backs. Picamoles has had plenty of help, Spedding is one of the top carriers in the tournament and the French pack is quite big and has good players. They are just a fairly disorganised side.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:33 am

I disagree about Heaslip and Moriarty.

Moriarty has been impressive defensively but looks what he is, a 6 playing 8. He's been making around 10m a game which is shocking for a number 8. Hughes has struggled to make a huge impact but he's been our only major carrying option which makes him easy to defend.

Heaslip, I just don't rate. I don't even know how he gets a game for Ireland tbh, you have better options.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:34 am

Hogg has been generally outstanding, perhaps another deserved player of the 6N on its way?

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:37 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Gunsgermsv2 Hogg has been good but he's had an awful lot of help from Russell and the other Scottish players to get the best from him whilst Picamoles hasn't had much support from his fellow Frenchmen.

Hogg's been getting the plaudits whilst his less glamorous Scottish colleagues have been doing more of the donkey work/pulling the strings.

You just dont like Hogg because he is Scottish and much better than any of the English backs. Picamoles has had plenty of help, Spedding is one of the top carriers in the tournament and the French pack is quite big and has good players. They are just a fairly disorganised side.

Disagree. Hogg is quality and yes he's better than any of the English backs but he's been getting the glory thanks to the work done by others. He's played well and made the most out of the opportunities given but his team mates have put him in those positions. He wouldn't be in the same position if Russell wasn't fizzing out those passes and Scotland weren't giving him some platform to work with.

He's fed off his team mates well.

Let's just say that his surname is appropriate....

He's the best full back in the NH so yes I rate him.

Picamoles has had to shoulder most of the burden because France are so disorganised.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by IanBru on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:41 am

beshocked wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Gunsgermsv2 Hogg has been good but he's had an awful lot of help from Russell and the other Scottish players to get the best from him whilst Picamoles hasn't had much support from his fellow Frenchmen.

Hogg's been getting the plaudits whilst his less glamorous Scottish colleagues have been doing more of the donkey work/pulling the strings.

You just dont like Hogg because he is Scottish and much better than any of the English backs. Picamoles has had plenty of help, Spedding is one of the top carriers in the tournament and the French pack is quite big and has good players. They are just a fairly disorganised side.

Disagree. Hogg is quality and yes he's better than any of the English backs but he's been getting the glory thanks to the work done by others. He's played well and made the most out of the opportunities given but his team mates have put him in those positions. He wouldn't be in the same position if Russell wasn't fizzing out those passes and Scotland weren't giving him some platform to work with.

He's fed off his team mates well.

Let's just say that his surname is appropriate....

He's the best full back in the NH so yes I rate him.

Picamoles has had to shoulder most of the burden because France are so disorganised.
By that logic, Chris Paterson is the greatest player to ever play the game.

So we're saying that a player should be discounted because he has good team mates? That's... an interesting way of looking at things.
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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:42 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hogg has been generally outstanding, perhaps another deserved player of the 6N on its way?

I would say so if he continues playing the way he has.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:43 am

beshocked wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
beshocked wrote:Gunsgermsv2 Hogg has been good but he's had an awful lot of help from Russell and the other Scottish players to get the best from him whilst Picamoles hasn't had much support from his fellow Frenchmen.

Hogg's been getting the plaudits whilst his less glamorous Scottish colleagues have been doing more of the donkey work/pulling the strings.

You just dont like Hogg because he is Scottish and much better than any of the English backs. Picamoles has had plenty of help, Spedding is one of the top carriers in the tournament and the French pack is quite big and has good players. They are just a fairly disorganised side.

Disagree. Hogg is quality and yes he's better than any of the English backs but he's been getting the glory thanks to the work done by others. He's played well and made the most out of the opportunities given but his team mates have put him in those positions. He wouldn't be in the same position if Russell wasn't fizzing out those passes and Scotland weren't giving him some platform to work with.

He's fed off his team mates well.

Let's just say that his surname is appropriate....

He's the best full back in the NH so yes I rate him.

Picamoles has had to shoulder most of the burden because France are so disorganised.

I agree Russell has been exceptional. Very under rated player. He would be my Lions starter. However, Hogg has been outstanding.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:49 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I disagree about Heaslip and Moriarty.

Moriarty has been impressive defensively but looks what he is, a 6 playing 8. He's been making around 10m a game which is shocking for a number 8. Hughes has struggled to make a huge impact but he's been our only major carrying option which makes him easy to defend.

Heaslip, I just don't rate. I don't even know how he gets a game for Ireland tbh, you have better options.

So who are your 2 8s for the Lions tour? For me it will be Billy V and Heaslip.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:50 am

Not saying a player should be discounted because he has good team mates. I am saying that Hogg is winning much more plaudits than his colleagues - in my opinion unfairly so. He's taking almost all the glory.

The backrow did particularly well vs Ireland and Wales. Scotland have functioned remarkably well with a creaking scrum. J.Gray has been good.

It's been the Hogg show with some minor cameos being credited for others...

Do you think Chris Paterson has taken the game to a team like Picamoles did vs England? Picamoles was well deserved MOTM. Rarely do you see a MOTM from the losing team.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:53 am

Jamie George should be Lions captain. Discuss.

Wink

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:55 am

beshocked wrote:Not saying a player should be discounted because he has good team mates. I am saying that Hogg is winning much more plaudits than his colleagues - in my opinion unfairly so. He's taking almost all the glory.

The backrow did particularly well vs Ireland and Wales. Scotland have functioned remarkably well with a creaking scrum. J.Gray has been good.

It's been the Hogg show with some minor cameos being credited for others...

Do you think Chris Paterson has taken the game to a team like Picamoles did vs England? Picamoles was well deserved MOTM. Rarely do you see a MOTM from the losing team.

Well England werent great in that game but scraped a win.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:56 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Jamie George should be Lions captain. Discuss.

Wink

He has about as much chance as Hartley. None.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 11:58 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:Jamie George should be Lions captain. Discuss.

Wink

No, he's not a guaranteed starter. Not captain material at the moment.


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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 12:02 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Jamie George should be Lions captain. Discuss.

Wink

He has about as much chance as Hartley. None.

I still think Gatland will go with AWJ or Warburton. I can feel it in my bones.

As for the question of which number 8 will be selected, I think Billy V is guaranteed provided he is fit. Second choice is, for me, a straight shoot between Faletau and Heaslip. Right now it would be Heaslip, as Faletau needs to prove fitness and form.

Strauss could have been a bolter, as he played well against Ireland and France (probably our best player in that game), but his injury has deprived him of the chance to finish the tournament.

Hughes has been a bit disappointing if I'm being honest. I thought he'd make more of an impact.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 12:03 pm

beshocked wrote:Itoje wasn't struggling vs Italy, he was one of our best players.

Against France and Wales who was playing in a poor backrow with Wood ineffectual,Clifford struggling and Hughes a level or two below Billy. Context is important.
Everyone who started was below par against Italy, so saying Itoje was one of our best players is not much of an accolade.

Itoje is still one of the first names on the sheet but he isn't dominating moments in the match like he did before. He was outplayed by his Welsh backrow counterparts, and you can't just blame his partners, since he managed to shade his head-to-head against France

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by beshocked on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 12:10 pm

Rugby fan you are right it's not much of an accolade perhaps but he still had a good influence on proceedings.

I focus on Itoje a lot when I watch games, I am sure others single out players too, I thought his interventions though not as eyecatching as a line break were useful, like retrieving the ball on the England line and getting it back to our players, shepherding an Italian into touch, attacking with 2 lineout steals, getting 3 turnovers etc.

I don't think Itoje's carries have been particularly strong in this tournament though.

Itoje,Clifford,Hughes away in Wales vs Warburton,Tipuric and Moriarty isn't the easiest H2H, especially as Moriarty had the best game I've seen from him.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:13 pm

beshocked wrote:Rugby fan you are right it's not much of an accolade perhaps but he still had a good influence on proceedings.

I focus on Itoje a lot when I watch games, I am sure others single out players too, I thought his interventions though not as eyecatching as a line break were useful, like retrieving the ball on the England line and getting it back to our players, shepherding an Italian into touch, attacking with 2 lineout steals, getting 3 turnovers etc.

I don't think Itoje's carries have been particularly strong in this tournament though.

Itoje,Clifford,Hughes away in Wales vs Warburton,Tipuric and Moriarty isn't the easiest H2H, especially as Moriarty had the best game I've seen from him.

I do think Moriarty at 6 is a potential bolter selection for the Lions. He's up against Barclay, Robshaw and Haskell, as I think we can assume CJ Stander will tour (as will Warburton), but the intensity of his tackling is very handy. I'd like to see him become more of a 80 minute player however.

Itoje at 6 is still a question mark for me. It's where I wanted him to play, and still think it's the position where he could truly reach the highest level in the game, but his best international performances have been at lock (with Kruis, Robshaw, Haskell and Vunipola completing the back five of the scrum). Plenty more to come from him in that position I think, and Launchbury isn't making to easy to him to switch back to lock (although the return of a fully fit Chris Robshaw may well push him back there).

All in all, pretty healthy dilemmas for Eddie Jones to have.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:27 pm

funnyExiledScot wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Jamie George should be Lions captain. Discuss.

Wink

He has about as much chance as Hartley. None.

I still think Gatland will go with AWJ or Warburton. I can feel it in my bones.

As for the question of which number 8 will be selected, I think Billy V is guaranteed provided he is fit. Second choice is, for me, a straight shoot between Faletau and Heaslip. Right now it would be Heaslip, as Faletau needs to prove fitness and form.

Strauss could have been a bolter, as he played well against Ireland and France (probably our best player in that game), but his injury has deprived him of the chance to finish the tournament.

Hughes has been a bit disappointing if I'm being honest. I thought he'd make more of an impact.

I agree on all points more or less. I reckon it will be AWJ. I also think a lot has been made of his poor captaincy. I think mostly fairly unfairly. He is the best candidate for me.

Strauss is a good player but I think he will be overlooked unless Scotland win their next two games and he is outstanding.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Rugbyjk on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:29 pm

Ok, I'm guessing we're Welsh Friday night then?

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Rugbyjk on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:30 pm

Wrong subject, apologies

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:30 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:Jamie George should be Lions captain. Discuss.

Wink

He has about as much chance as Hartley. None.

I still think Gatland will go with AWJ or Warburton. I can feel it in my bones.

As for the question of which number 8 will be selected, I think Billy V is guaranteed provided he is fit. Second choice is, for me, a straight shoot between Faletau and Heaslip. Right now it would be Heaslip, as Faletau needs to prove fitness and form.

Strauss could have been a bolter, as he played well against Ireland and France (probably our best player in that game), but his injury has deprived him of the chance to finish the tournament.

Hughes has been a bit disappointing if I'm being honest. I thought he'd make more of an impact.

I agree on all points more or less. I reckon it will be AWJ. I also think a lot has been made of his poor captaincy. I think mostly fairly unfairly. He is the best candidate for me.

Strauss is a good player but I think he will be overlooked unless Scotland win their next two games and he is outstanding.

He is injured for the rest of the tournament, and probably Glasgow's forthcoming win over Sarries as well, so I don't think he'll make it now.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:50 pm

Ah grand, gonzo then.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by Cyril on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 1:55 pm

A big NO to Heaslip.

He'd probably only want to go over there for a bit of networking or to open a supermarket anyway. He might be persuaded if it's renamed The British, Irish and Heaslip Lions.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 2:00 pm

Cyril wrote:A big NO to Heaslip.

He'd probably only want to go over there for a bit of networking or to open a supermarket anyway. He might be persuaded if it's renamed The British, Irish and Heaslip Lions.

Haha all of that is true however, he will play out of his skin in the test matches as he has done in all five Lions test matches he has played in.

His next game against Wales is his 100th test cap.

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Re: The Lions WUM Swamp of Madness No Holds Barred Shootout Thread

Post by funnyExiledScot on Tue 07 Mar 2017, 2:07 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:A big NO to Heaslip.

He'd probably only want to go over there for a bit of networking or to open a supermarket anyway. He might be persuaded if it's renamed The British, Irish and Heaslip Lions.

Haha all of that is true however, he will play out of his skin in the test matches as he has done in all five Lions test matches he has played in.

His next game against Wales is his 100th test cap.

That just shows the lack of competition for places in Irish rugby.... Wink

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