OECD - Foreign Aid Contributors....Country by Country.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:00 am

Read an article the other day where a guy with no legs was fighting a judgment of being denied Disability Aid because he was told "You've got a pair of arms haven't you".......Food bank use on the increase and the NHS is in freefall.........

Interesting to note that Britain gave India £1.5 billion in aid last year and India's foreign aid budget was £1.6 billion in 2015.....Britain are basically giving India aid to give aid to others..

These are the main figures from 2015..............I imagine things changed little in 2016...We'll see in due time..

1. USA.................31 billion.
2. GB...................19 billion.
3. Germany...........18 billion
4. Japan...............9 billion
5. France..............9 billion
5. Australia.......... 3 billion

12. Australia.........3 billion.

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:04 am

Per Capita.

USA: 97
GB: 296

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:06 am

Scottrf wrote:Per Capita.

USA: 97
GB: 296

GB should follow suit.

Charity begins at home....

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Post by rick_dagless on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:27 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Per Capita.

USA: 97
GB: 296

GB should follow suit.

Charity begins at home....

Why does it begin at home? What is the difference between someone disadvantaged here and somewhere else?

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:28 am

rick_dagless wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Per Capita.

USA: 97
GB: 296

GB should follow suit.

Charity begins at home....

Why does it begin at home?  What is the difference between someone disadvantaged here and somewhere else?
We have to see them.

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Post by rick_dagless on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:31 am

Ah, cheers for clarifying Scott Smile

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:34 am

On a serious note I would say it's easier to effect change where you can be sure the money is going to good causes. But there's obviously the balance that the money would stretch further abroad. Not an easy issue to balance.

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Post by rick_dagless on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:35 am

Fair point.

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Post by rodders on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:46 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Read an article the other day where a guy with no legs was fighting a judgment of being denied Disability Aid because he was told "You've got a pair of arms haven't you".......Food bank use on the increase and the NHS is in freefall.........

Interesting to note that Britain gave India £1.5 billion in aid last year and India's foreign aid budget was £1.6 billion in 2015.....Britain are basically giving India aid to give aid to others..

These are the main figures from 2015..............I imagine things changed little in 2016...We'll see in due time..

1. USA.................31 billion.
2. GB...................19 billion.
3. Germany...........18 billion
4. Japan...............9  billion
5. France..............9  billion
5. Australia.......... 3 billion

12. Australia.........3 billion.

Maybe list the countries which receive the payments and compare them with the ones the UK and USA do most arms trade with, it might show we aren't as generous as it appears.
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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:54 am

rick_dagless wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Per Capita.

USA: 97
GB: 296

GB should follow suit.

Charity begins at home....

Why does it begin at home?  What is the difference between someone disadvantaged here and somewhere else?

"Government by the people for the people"..........These other Countries have Governments and the Leaders tend to live in opulent style...

Take care of your own....First........

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Post by rick_dagless on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 10:57 am

So leave it to the people whose leaders are corrupt? Whilst our less corrupt leaders do a better job? Doesn't sound right.

Who are my own?

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Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 11:01 am

rick_dagless wrote:Who are my own?

Good question. Never quite understood why I'm supposed to care more about some guy who I've never met who lives 200 miles away, than some guy who I've never met who lives 2000 miles away.

Perhaps, in an overall economic sense, taking care of 'our own' benefits ourselves more, but then it becomes not about 'our own' but about 'me'.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 11:02 am

rick_dagless wrote:So leave it to the people whose leaders are corrupt?  Whilst our less corrupt leaders do a better job?  Doesn't sound right.

Who are my own?

You can't be World police.......When you can't look after your own people......In my opinion...

It's my opinion and you're more than welcome to disagree.. thumbsup ....

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 11:05 am

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You can't be World police.......When you can't look after your own people......In my opinion...
laughing From a 'Yank'. Hilarious.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 11:20 am

Foreign aid isn't really aid. It's our clumsy way of investing in markets who will make money and buy our stuff. It hepls a few people but mostly it goes towards moneyed peoples in poor countries who can exert influence on the government of said country to buy our exports. Even if they dont need em.

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Post by rick_dagless on Thu 02 Mar 2017, 11:21 am

JuliusHMarx wrote:
rick_dagless wrote:Who are my own?

Good question. Never quite understood why I'm supposed to care more about some guy who I've never met who lives 200 miles away, than some guy who I've never met who lives 2000 miles away.

Perhaps, in an overall economic sense, taking care of 'our own' benefits ourselves more, but then it becomes not about 'our own' but about 'me'.

Yep, this.


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 9:49 am

Hilarious & predictable OP of horsesh*t nonesense.

American is one of the worst foreign aid donators in the developed world. Don't think it's ever got above 1% GDP compared to the UK which seems to be dilligently sticking to 1.7%.

Trumps found another $100bn or something like that to funnel into military spending though, probably needed though #makingAmericanhatedagain

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 11:10 am

rick_dagless wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:
rick_dagless wrote:Who are my own?

Good question. Never quite understood why I'm supposed to care more about some guy who I've never met who lives 200 miles away, than some guy who I've never met who lives 2000 miles away.

Perhaps, in an overall economic sense, taking care of 'our own' benefits ourselves more, but then it becomes not about 'our own' but about 'me'.

Yep, this.


Care about your NHS and other services that need more money.

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Post by rick_dagless on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 11:21 am

They need more efficiency over more money, though both would be good.

The sentiment stands, there are more people abusing the NHS in this country than people from elsewhere, most of who come here genuinely needing assistance, and I do not see why the latter are worse than the former.

Though I feel we are not going to hit common ground here TRUSS.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 11:25 am

They need more more money and better efficiency..

But just carry on giving India 1.5 billion a year when India's foreign aid budget is 1.6 billion...

Granny can wait for her new hip.

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Post by rick_dagless on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 11:32 am

My granny is dead, other granny's are not "my own" so therefore I don't distinguish between them

I refer the honourable gentleman to my previous statement regarding money, but will retire gracefully from the discussion in the knowledge that we agree to disagree, and I have a busy day.

Glad tidings dear chap.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:11 pm

4.6 billion cuts in Social care provision..

Not good..

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:23 pm

I see where both sides are coming from, both offer equal logic, though personally I lean towards Truss' viewpoint.

Current UK GDP is what, £1.8-1.9 trillion? If you reduced our very weighty foreign 'aid' commitment from 1.7% to 1.5% (which still puts us way up the moral ladder ahead of most countries in the world, especially the US) that would free up £3-4bn to invest domestically.

That's a lot of nurses or police constables....

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:29 pm

As if the money would go into the NHS under a Tory government. Rolling Eyes

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:32 pm

Pr4wn wrote:As if the money would go into the NHS under a Tory government. Rolling Eyes

Didn't say it would. But it could. It could be put to better use than paying for some Uganda girl band, for example....

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:35 pm

But this is the standard excuse from the Tories. There's too much leaving the UK in foreign aid. It would be much better if we cut taxes for the well-off so all their donors could be that little bit richer.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:39 pm

Pr4wn wrote:But this is the standard excuse from the Tories. There's too much leaving the UK in foreign aid. It would be much better if we cut taxes for the well-off so all their donors could be that little bit richer.

Not a standard 'excuse' at all.

Basically that's actually just leftist fluff.

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 12:41 pm

Well no, it's not. The Tories have cut taxes for the wealthy while cutting funding for public services, leading to the NHS being critically underfunded this winter.

Surely you can't deny that.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 1:04 pm

Cut taxes for the wealthy? Which are those - the 50% top rate which didn't raise any money?

They've cut taxes much more substantially for the poor - tax free threshold is now double what it was under Labour.

They have made extensive cuts, many of which I agree with as I think the public sector is bloated, inefficient and not cost effective. There are too sides to the NHS coin - underfunded and over-used (abused). My concern is primarily the latter.

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 1:09 pm

Yes, the 50% was what I was referring to. Whether it raised any money is irrelevant. The point was that it raised money for their chums, so all is well.

And it would be the latter, despite the protests of everyone working in the NHS (that doesn't appear in the Daily Heil) and everyone in charge of the NHS who all say that the crisis in the NHS is underfunding.

I know you're a smart guy, Toppy. Do you really, honestly believe that the historic crisis in the NHS this winter was caused by foreigners who aren't allowed to be using the NHS, using the NHS? Really?

Or could it be the billions of pounds that have been taken from their budget combined with the billions taken from the social care budgets that force people into hospital?

Come on, mate. You're not that stupid. The Tories have been choking the NHS too much and it's coming back to bite them.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 1:11 pm

The ideology of blaming others is easier than the reality that we have to fund it better.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 1:44 pm

Scottrf wrote:The ideology of blaming others is easier than the reality that we have to fund it better.
Mr. Nail? Meet Mr. Hammer...
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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 2:55 pm

Pr4wn wrote:Yes, the 50% was what I was referring to. Whether it raised any money is irrelevant. The point was that it raised money for their chums, so all is well.

And it would be the latter, despite the protests of everyone working in the NHS (that doesn't appear in the Daily Heil) and everyone in charge of the NHS who all say that the crisis in the NHS is underfunding.

I know you're a smart guy, Toppy. Do you really, honestly believe that the historic crisis in the NHS this winter was caused by foreigners who aren't allowed to be using the NHS, using the NHS? Really?

Or could it be the billions of pounds that have been taken from their budget combined with the billions taken from the social care budgets that force people into hospital?

Come on, mate. You're not that stupid. The Tories have been choking the NHS too much and it's coming back to bite them.

Deary me.


Also, did I ever say anything about 'foreigners' using the NHS?????

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 2:56 pm

navyblueshorts wrote:
Scottrf wrote:The ideology of blaming others is easier than the reality that we have to fund it better.
Mr. Nail? Meet Mr. Hammer...

Totally agree.

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Post by Pr4wn on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 2:59 pm

"There are too sides to the NHS coin - underfunded and over-used (abused). My concern is primarily the latter."

If that's not a heavy implication then I don't know what is. Maybe not about foreigners, but you clearly think that the underfunding of the NHS over the last eight years is not as serious a problem as abuse.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:19 pm

Pr4wn wrote:"There are too sides to the NHS coin - underfunded and over-used (abused). My concern is primarily the latter."

If that's not a heavy implication then I don't know what is. Maybe not about foreigners, but you clearly think that the underfunding of the NHS over the last eight years is not as serious a problem as abuse.

My post has zero to do with foreigners. Though I should have expected the cheap shot from somehow always so desperate to shoe-horn their personal views & grievances into a debate no matter how wrong or irrelevant.

I think the NHS should be better funded.

However I think underfunding pressure is consequential on the over-use/abuse, hence why I think the latter is a greater concern - no point continually pumping more money into something indescriminately without addressing the fundamental issue which is causing that money to be continuously swallowed up.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:22 pm

In what areas specifically? People using the GP for minor illnesses; or fatties/smokers taking up so many resources? Or?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:26 pm

Anything and everything, Scott.

Ridiculous amount is wasted on people bleeding the NHS for free OTC drugs, for example.

A&E is full of people with bugger all wrong with them.

GP surgeries are chock full of old people and young mothers with kids for minor grievances like a headache or upset stomach.

Flat chested girls getting nice new fake titties and other cosmetic surgery abuses.

Violent drunks getting into scrapes every Friday & Saturday night.

The list goes on and on.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:30 pm

You don't have stats on any of that. Just made up daily mail hear say.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:31 pm

But GPs agree. Hear them on phone ins all of the time. The problem is that it's political suicide to get too far into that debate.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:32 pm

Ok. Because I have no stats none of that actually happens.

Along with no stats I also have no eyes, apparently.

Must see if that's covered by my private medical insurance, try get it sorted.

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:35 pm

Yup. Hear similar rubbish a lot.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:36 pm

LOL

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:37 pm

The inefficiency of the NHS and all of our services is down to one simplexpert thing. Cronyism. Doesn'tattercliffe if it's labour or tories...people like Jeremy hunts business end up with public contracts. G4s repeatedly end up with contracts and sodexo as well. All of these service companies are spectacular and repeated f*ck ups. This should be up of public tender rather than either ending up as their mates or the cheapest option. I agree with you to that point where the inefficiency ought to be addressed first..but that means people suffer unnecessarily. Throw money at it for the momentire just to plug that gap and slowly and carefully select more efficient providers.

As for foreign aid...I know you to be more practical than ideological toppy so don't go all moralistic on me now. Foreign aid is bribery pure and simple and we can't afford not to give out bribes post Brexit. There is the nub. We temporarily gain money for the NHS then in the long run have to close/sell it anyway because no f*cker is trading with us. Maybe just stop charging the NHS business rates.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:38 pm

How about this? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33375976
https://www.theguardian.com/healthcare-network/views-from-the-nhs-frontline/2015/jul/13/wasting-gps-time-no-i-cant-prescribe-you-new-shoes

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:38 pm

Good god. I need some sleep.

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Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:39 pm

ShahenshahG wrote:The inefficiency of the NHS and all of our services is down to one simplexpert thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health

"The United Kingdom ranks first overall, scoring highest on quality, access and efficiency"

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Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:42 pm

I much as I love Jeremy hunt where has he got those made up figures from. How does a missed hospital appointment cost anything additional? The hospital already has its budget the nurse or.consultant will just do paper work or move to the next patient immediately. Think the nhs.is going downhill due to qipp and social.work cuts personally.

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Post by ShahenshahG on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 3:54 pm

Scottrf wrote:
ShahenshahG wrote:The inefficiency of the NHS and all of our services is down to one simplexpert thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/jun/17/nhs-health

"The United Kingdom ranks first overall, scoring highest on quality, access and efficiency"

I know that already, you'll find no bigger fan of the NHS than me. Just because it's the best doesn't mean it can't be better. As long as these inefficiencies exist we will forever be distracted from the perpetual underfunding of the NHS because the press lead the narrative in this country. And they hate foreigners and poor people more than they love the NHS save as a stick to beat the politicians with.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 03 Mar 2017, 5:31 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Anything and everything, Scott.

Ridiculous amount is wasted on people bleeding the NHS for free OTC drugs, for example.

A&E is full of people with bugger all wrong with them.

GP surgeries are chock full of old people and young mothers with kids for minor grievances like a headache or upset stomach.

Flat chested girls getting nice new fake titties and other cosmetic surgery abuses.

Violent drunks getting into scrapes every Friday & Saturday night.

The list goes on and on.
Interesting that something like 90% of all prescriptions in England/Wales are dispensed free. Typically, I'm one of the 10% who have no such luxury mad. Really? 90% are entitled to free prescriptions? Even my wife, who's one of these, thinks it's nuts.
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