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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Wed 08 Mar 2017, 1:43 pm

2015 Tory Manifesto............."No increases in VAT, National Insurance contributions or Income Tax..."

Oh dear.....

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:35 am

Yawn

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Post by Ent on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 10:56 am

Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 11:00 am

Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.

Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........

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Post by Ent on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 11:06 am

Class 4 is profits, income - expenses. Increase only effects around 8k profits I think.

I know next to nothing about this so happy to be corrected.

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 11:14 am

Same here Ent, speaking of which can anyone explain to me why a flat rate of tax for everyone is a bad idea?. We're all paying the same percentage of tax's then and wouldn't you be able to shut a lot of the loopholes?


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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 11:29 am

Derbymanc wrote:Same here Ent, speaking of which can anyone explain to me why a flat rate of tax for everyone is a bad idea?. We're all paying the same percentage of tax's then and wouldn't you be able to shut a lot of the loopholes?


If you're bored, google regressive versus progressive taxes.

Flat rate taxes have advantages such as transparency and a lack of convolution (went to a presentation the other day and apparently the UK has the world's most convoluted tax code - the book is about 6 inches thick!!).

However they are also considered regressive as proportionally they hit those on lower incomes harder. Take VAT for example - a flat tax. Someone earning £100k pa with a general VATable expenditure of £20k pa pays £4k pa VAT which is 4% of gross income. The same VAT cost to someone on £50k is 8% of gross income. Etc etc

Tories haven't got a jot of credit for taking millions of low income workers out of tax completely.

Someone earning £12k pa now pays no income tax.

With a flat, say, 25% tax rate they'd only take home £9k pa. The aforementioned £100k pa person would take home £75k as opposed to £65k under the current 'progressive' tax regime which basically involves higher earners paying more into the pot proportionally than lower earners.

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Post by Derbymanc on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 11:32 am

Cheers Toppy, gives me a better understanding of how it works, would be interested to see/know what the effect would be even if we closed the loopholes now (would business's just move elsewhere etc)

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 11:45 am

TBH, when talking income tax, I don't think flat or tranched rates really involve or are relevant loopholes.

Majority of tax payers are PAYE - no loop holes to take advantage of there.

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Post by superflyweight on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:17 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.

Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........

Can they now look forward to statutory sick pay and paid holidays?

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:24 pm

superflyweight wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.

Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........

Can they now look forward to statutory sick pay and paid holidays?  

I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:24 pm

superflyweight wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.

Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........

Can they now look forward to statutory sick pay and paid holidays?  
No, just double normal hourly rates.

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:25 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?
Yes and state pension (which is now equal).

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:30 pm

Scottrf wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?
Yes and state pension (which is now equal).

NI pays for your holidays?? Wowzers. Never knew that. Thought it was brought in for the NHS back in the day and then meant to cover state pension somewhat but otherwise just all going into a pot.

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Post by Scottrf on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:40 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?
Yes and state pension (which is now equal).

NI pays for your holidays?? Wowzers. Never knew that. Thought it was brought in for the NHS back in the day and then meant to cover state pension somewhat but otherwise just all going into a pot.
Holidays I don't know about actually.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:43 pm

I get confused by it all. I do know my missus and I both pay NI PAYE but she gets less paid leave than me.....seems like it has more to do with company policy than national tax affairs.

And my tiler mate who's self employed gets no paid annual leave from memory. Maybe he's accountant finds away to adjust for it but I don't know.

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Post by superflyweight on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:45 pm

It doesn't have to be directly attributable to be a pertinent argument. Your point was that they were being brought into line with PAYE tax payers and my point is that PAYE tax payers generally benefit from certain perks - e.g. paid annual leave and employment protection.


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Post by Scottrf on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:45 pm

As far as I know you're entitled to 20 days minimum & BHs, your employers can offer more holidays if they like. But yes that's full time employed staff.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:50 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn

You seem to have become more interested.... Rolling Eyes

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:54 pm

Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

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Post by Ent on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 12:56 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.

There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:01 pm

Ent wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.

There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.

It isn't irrelevant......

Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......

Manifesto is your bond........

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:02 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn

This brings nothing to the thread and you're just looking to incite a reaction here.

No more, please.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:17 pm

Ent wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.

There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.

Democracy in action!

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:22 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
Ent wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.

There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.

Democracy in action!

Yep......At Elections we elect people to represent us on pledges/manifesto.......The winner forms the Government..

It doesn't become null and void......Call an Election and lose a crap load of seats back to the Liberals......Probably win a load of Labour ones mind !!....

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:24 pm

Oh I know, mate. Tories were going mental when Brown became PM after Blair resigned, but they're fine with May becoming PM after Cameron fell on his sword.

Also, regarding the budget, the Tories are the party for "Hardworking Britons" yet they make things harder for the already squeezed self-employed, discouraging others from starting business and then they give huge corporations a 3% tax cut.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:34 pm

superflyweight wrote:It doesn't have to be directly attributable to be a pertinent argument.  Your point was that they were being brought into line with PAYE tax payers and my point is that PAYE tax payers generally benefit from certain perks - e.g. paid annual leave and employment protection.  

 

And PAYE tax payers also lose out on certain perks, swings & roundabouts, your point is largely superfluous.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:35 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn

You seem to have become more interested.... Rolling Eyes

People contributed something more debate-worthy than the OP.

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Post by TopHat24/7 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:36 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.

There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.

It isn't irrelevant......

Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......

Manifesto is your bond........

More classic Truss hypocritical bullsh!t.

"Your manifesto is your bond". Christ almighty.

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Post by Pr4wn on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:37 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn

You seem to have become more interested.... Rolling Eyes

People contributed something more debate-worthy than the OP.

Who also contributed something far more debate-worthy than "yawn".

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:39 pm

Pr4wn wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn

You seem to have become more interested.... Rolling Eyes

People contributed something more debate-worthy than the OP.

Who also contributed something far more debate-worthy than "yawn".

Let baby have his tantrum..

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Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:41 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.

There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.

It isn't irrelevant......

Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......

Manifesto is your bond........

More classic Truss hypocritical bullsh!t.

"Your manifesto is your bond". Christ almighty.

You just make statements.....You don't back them up....

No point in having a conversation with you really...Is there ??..........

Thought this thread was boring you anyway ??.. Cool

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Post by Ent on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 1:50 pm

Major world events will mean the manifestos get adjusted.

A call for a general election and suggestions they should've had a back up plan are very sensible but here we are.

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Post by navyblueshorts on Fri 10 Mar 2017, 2:35 pm

If a "manifesto is your bond", then everyone is in trouble aren't they? They're made to be broken. I wouldn't believe any of them if they said the sun was going to rise tomorrow...


Last edited by navyblueshorts on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Galted on Fri 10 Mar 2017, 3:43 pm

TopHat24/7 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?

You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.

They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...

*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.

Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.

There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.

It isn't irrelevant......

Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......

Manifesto is your bond........

More classic Truss hypocritical bullsh!t.

"Your manifesto is your bond". Christ almighty.

Laugh
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Post by Mad for Chelsea on Wed 15 Mar 2017, 1:42 pm

Well that got abandoned rather quickly. Mustn't upset the media chums after all...

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Post by CaledonianCraig on Wed 15 Mar 2017, 2:13 pm

Theresa May: 'This woman is not for turning.' laughing
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Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 15 Mar 2017, 9:46 pm

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well that got abandoned rather quickly. Mustn't upset the media chums after all...
Yes. Great idea eh? Lets continue to allow the self-employed to exploit tax inequalities and loopholes while the PAYE suckers make up the slack that those w*nkers don't pay....
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