6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

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6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by LondonTiger on Thu 09 Mar 2017, 4:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

     
ENGLAND v SCOTLAND
Saturday 10th March
16:00 GMT
Twickenham Stadium

Live on ITV, RTE, FR2, DMAX

Referee - Matthieu Raynal
AR1 - Romain Poite
AR2 - Marius Mitrea
TMO - Ben Skeen

A. Head to Head

134 Played 134
74 Won 42
18 Drawn 18
42 Lost 74
1,562 Points 1,141

B. Recent Form

6 February 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
9 – 15 to England

14 March 2015
Twickenham, London
25 – 13 to England

8 February 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
0 – 20 to England

2 February 2013
Twickenham, London
38 – 18 to England

4 February 2012
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
6 – 13 to England

C. Teams


ENGLAND


Starting XV:

15. Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 58 caps), 14. Jack Nowell  (Exeter Chiefs, 21 caps), 13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 31 caps), 12. Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 50 caps), 11. Elliot Daly (Wasps, 11 caps), 10. George Ford (Bath Rugby, 33 caps), 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 68 caps), 1. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 49 caps), 2. Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 82 caps), 3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 72 caps), 4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 40 caps) , 5. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 56 caps), 6. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 10 caps), 7. James Haskell (Wasps, 73 caps) , 8. Nathan Hughes (Wasps, 6 caps).

Finishers

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 15 caps), 17. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 40 caps), 18. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 6 caps), 19. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 48 caps), 20. Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens 32 caps), 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 69 caps), 22. Ben Te’o (Worcester Warriors, 6 caps), 23. Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 24 caps).

SCOTLAND


Starting XV

15. Stuart Hogg (Glasgow Warriors) – 51 caps; 16 tries, 3 pens, 89 points
14. Tommy Seymour (Glasgow Warriors) – 34 caps; 15 tries, 75 points
13. Huw Jones (Stormers) – 6 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
12. Alex Dunbar (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps; 6 tries, 30 points
11. Tim Visser (Harlequins) – 29 caps; 12 tries, 60 points
10. Finn Russell (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 5 cons, 8 pens, 44 points
9. Ali Price (Glasgow Warriors) – 3 caps

1. Gordon Reid (Glasgow Warriors) – 22 caps
2. Fraser Brown (Glasgow Warriors) – 23 caps
3. Zander Fagerson (Glasgow Warriors) – 7 caps
4. Richie Gray (Toulouse) – 63 caps; 3 tries, 15 points
5. Jonny Gray (Glasgow Warriors) – 31 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
6. John Barclay CAPTAIN (Scarlets) – 58 caps; 4 tries, 20 points
7. Hamish Watson (Edinburgh Rugby) – 8 caps; 1 try, 5 points
8. Ryan Wilson (Glasgow Warriors) – 25 caps

Substitutes:
16. Ross Ford (Edinburgh Rugby) – 105 caps; 2 tries, 10 points
17. Allan Dell (Edinburgh Rugby) – 6 caps
18. Simon Berghan (Edinburgh Rugby) – 1 cap
19. Tim Swinson (Glasgow Warriors) – 27 caps; 1 try, 5 points
20. Cornell Du Preez (Edinburgh Rugby) – uncapped
21. Henry Pyrgos (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 4 tries, 3 pens, 29 points
22. Duncan Weir (Edinburgh Rugby) – 25 caps; 2 tries, 7 cons, 10 pens, 1 drop, 57 points
23. Mark Bennett (Glasgow Warriors) – 19 caps; 6 tries, 30 points

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:45 pm

demosthenes wrote:My take?

Scotland were overpowered.   They were a bit unlucky.  Unlucky insofar as Italy gave England a fright, and what Scotland faced was the England that could be, rather than what had been.

Scotland did show what by they could do when they had the ball, and if they had not been so unlucky with injuries to the backs - their main attacking weapon - they might have got a bonus point.

But they still wouldn't have won.

Well done England.

Bang on that. England were unplayable today. Joseph was brilliant beyond words. So fast, so powerful.

I feel desperately disappointed. I thought that Scotland team had a real chance to win that match, but losing Hogg and then Bennett 2 minutes later really killed the game as a contest.

Taking nothing away from England. They targeted poor Ali Price on that wing with some excellent kicking from hand.

I have never seen England play so well though. They were tremendous.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by lostinwales on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:48 pm

Just one of those days when everything goes right for one team and wrong for the other.

Hard to make any assessment of Scotland's performance today

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Cumbrian on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:51 pm

The thing that annoyed me was that the commentators stuck to the pre game narrative that England would simply strangle the life out of plucky Scotland. I swear I heard the Scottish commentator say that England 'squeezed the life out of Scotland', we'd scored 5 tries at that point! Frak that, England dominated Scotland, completely cut them to shreds! I've heard all week how it was going to be England's set piece against Scotland's exciting backs, when it was England's backs that tore Scotland a new one.

Before this weekends games I was worried about Ireland, now I will be severely disappointed if we lose to them. It would be a massive opportunity missed, England are clearly the better team.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Gwlad on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:54 pm

lostinwales wrote:Just one of those days when everything goes right for one team and wrong for the other.

Hard to make any assessment of Scotland's performance today

No it isn't. They were defenseless. They shipped countless first phase tries. Game over.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:55 pm

lostinwales wrote:Just one of those days when everything goes right for one team and wrong for the other.

Hard to make any assessment of Scotland's performance today

Not really, we lost our greatest attacking threat in the 20th minute. We then. Lost his replacement in the 22nd minute. The fact we finished with a fly half at full back and a scrum half on the wing and still scored 2 tries in the 2nd half shows we didn't give up.

I'm encouraged by the heart and effort we showed but slightly disappointed that Barclay was mouthing off and it cost us a try.

England absolutely clicked today and we never really got over the loss of Brown to the sin bin and then the loss of Hogg and Bennett in quick succession.

England were criticised for not playing heads up against Italy and being made to look foolish. Nothing could be further from the truth today. They brutally exposed lax tackling in the midfield and changed the angle of attack brilliantly after each phase. In addition they kept punting the ball to Ali Price who did his best to stem the tide but sadly it wasn't enough.

I just hope Hogg, Seymour and Wilson get over their head injuries to play next week.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by trebellbobaggins on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:55 pm

Overall a good win. Scotland are not a bad side at all but Eng were fantastic today.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by TheMildlyFranticLlama on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:57 pm

Gwlad wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Just one of those days when everything goes right for one team and wrong for the other.

Hard to make any assessment of Scotland's performance today

No it isn't. They were defenseless. They shipped countless first phase tries. Game over.

Agreed, our midfield defence in particular was awful. We shouldn't overlook our errors no matter how good England were.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by lostinwales on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 6:58 pm

This may sound crazy but the Scots should take it as a mark of respect that England felt they had to produce a performance like that. The Scots have come a long way but maybe this is a sign of how much further there is to go

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by mid_gen on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:01 pm

I think in all honesty a full strength England squad under EJ would be a much better contest than the lions under Gatland.


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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:01 pm

Agreed mid.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:05 pm

Don't mean to ridicule the lions here, it's the gatland bit.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by B91212 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:18 pm

I think Scotland really missed big Greg Laidlaw today. He would have calmed the team down after that start and got them playing in better areas. Don't think it would have changed the result, better team playing to their potential and all that but it would have helped. Thought Barclay and J. Grey were disappointing, Scotland needed them to lead by example in the face of adversity but instead they became frustrated and a bit petulant. Still Grey jr especially will learn from it for the future.

Huw Jones certainly looks some prospect in an attacking sense and playing his club rugby in Glasgow with his international teammates next year you would think will help his defencive progression. I expect Saracens will be watching the video of the midlfield defence between Russell and Dunbar for their upcoming euro quarter final although I'm sure so will Mr Townsend.

As an England fan I'm well happy of course, plenty of positives but also things to work on for next weekend.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Gwlad on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:22 pm

Rugbyjk wrote:Don't mean to ridicule the lions here, it's the gatland bit.

Yeah i mean why should you support a winning Lions coach who actually would have won a 2nd tour were it not for the inability of an English prop to scrummage and an Irish 10 to know when it is the smart move to kick it into touch. Rolling Eyes

But that is the contribution we can expect from England and Ireland while it is Welshmen who score the points!

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:22 pm

A lot was made before the game about the Scottish back row getting over the ball but today showed you simply cannot play a 6, 7 & 8 that are so underpowered compared to their opposition. It was only a small moment in the match but Itoje stopping two Scots dead in their tracks highlighted the power difference.

Everything came off the line out and I don't remember a single occassion when we were remotely challenged, Youngs had time every time and the same old passage then came the Ford/Farrell axis feeding JJ. We used the rolling maul sparingly but again the power of the English pack gave us easy yardage.

Guscott made an interesting point about Jonny Gray in his recent BBC article that whilst he makes his tackles every single time he doesn't dominate or push back in the way Lawes or Launchbury do.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:24 pm

Gwlad ur deluded.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Hammersmith harrier on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:24 pm

Gwlad wrote:
Rugbyjk wrote:Don't mean to ridicule the lions here, it's the gatland bit.

Yeah i mean why should you support a winning Lions coach who actually would have won a 2nd tour were it not for the inability of an English prop to scrummage and an Irish 10 to know when it is the smart move to kick it into touch. Rolling Eyes

But that is the contribution we can expect from England and Ireland while it is Welshmen who score the points!

How do you figure that one out, the best the Lions would have done in 09 was drawn the series but the third test becomes a completely different game at 1-0.

We'll be happy with our back to back championships.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:25 pm

For the record I don't blame Vickery, he was packing down with Winnie the Pooh at hooker.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:32 pm

I'm sorry, RDW is unavailable right now - he's currently drowning his sorrows.

Utterly pathetic from Scotland.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:32 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm sorry, RDW is unavailable right now - he's currently drowning his sorrows.

Utterly pathetic from Scotland.

How was twickers?
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:33 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Gwlad wrote:
Rugbyjk wrote:Don't mean to ridicule the lions here, it's the gatland bit.

Yeah i mean why should you support a winning Lions coach who actually would have won a 2nd tour were it not for the inability of an English prop to scrummage and an Irish 10 to know when it is the smart move to kick it into touch. Rolling Eyes

But that is the contribution we can expect from England and Ireland while it is Welshmen who score the points!

How do you figure that one out, the best the Lions would have done in 09 was drawn the series but the third test becomes a completely different game at 1-0.

We'll be happy with our back to back championships.

A successful Lions coach with the cream of the home nations and Ireland to choose from, gets a 2-1 squeaky win against a side that a year later were whitewashed by a young emerging England side?

Great Withering Lost Antagonistic Deluded person

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:33 pm

You weren't great RDW but chill, England were gonna have a good game this 6 nations. Just hoping we have left sumat back for next week.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Cumbrian on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:34 pm

Rugbyjk wrote:For the record I don't blame Vickery, he was packing down with Winnie the Pooh at hooker.

Vickery has plenty of years to redeem himself yet,the old Raging Bull still going strong last time I heard.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:35 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:I'm sorry, RDW is unavailable right now - he's currently drowning his sorrows.

Utterly pathetic from Scotland.

How was twickers?

censored

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:35 pm

Can cook a bit too.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Gooseberry on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:36 pm

You have to admire Vickery for coming back from that and leading England on to their current success...shoe in for the Lions captaincy surely ...unless he finally retires

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:36 pm

Rugbyjk wrote:Can cook a bit too.

Both of them

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:37 pm

Lol

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:40 pm

Any news on the injured players ether side?

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:41 pm

So boys, Ireland next. (2nd) grand slam and a world record to be won. How we feeling about it?

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Cumbrian on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:41 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Any news on the injured players ether side?

Phil Vickery is fine.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:41 pm

Well with Fern Britton to feed you need to be adaptable, all salads one month, props diet the next.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:41 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:Any news on the injured players ether side?

Vern Cotter has said Scotland have now suffered 8 concussions in the last 2 games

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:43 pm

Scotland normally post up a butchers bill on Monday. Bennett's tournament is over tho, that looked nasty. Also Wilson got absolutely rattled, I'd be surprised if he or Seymour can make it back for the Italy game.

I actually didn't see what happened to Hogg, so I dunno bout that.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:44 pm

Hogg just didn't fancy it mate.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:47 pm

Lol I cannae blame him but in all seriousness I didn't see what happened.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Scottrf on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:49 pm

Hoggs was a head injury. Not sure what from.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:52 pm

Rugbyjk wrote:So boys, Ireland next. (2nd) grand slam and a world record to be won. How we feeling about it?

I still have nightmares about an Ireland side that has nothing to play for, the day after Paddy's day and against the side they love to beat the most. They will not need any motivation to give their all to stop us gaining a second consecutive GS. They could play out of their skins.

I don't think they have enough ammunition but it could get nasty. Hopefully with nothing else to play for, a few might have their minds on staying fit for the Lions and not put in that extra few percent.

The battle of the front rows will be fascinating, Ireland's front row seriously under performed yesterday against a front three that has struggled all 6N. Neither of England's front threes have struggled to date against any opposition. They haven't dominated, but that is now longer what the game is about. On current form it would be 6 Englishmen going with the Lions just for the front rows.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:53 pm

Errr, gatland...

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 7:55 pm

I didn't see what happened to Hogg either' it must have been a collision that he got up from and then felt a bit iffy. Daly passed the HIA, came back on but then went off, presumably not feeling 100%

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:03 pm

mid_gen wrote:I think in all honesty a full strength England squad under EJ would be a much better contest than the lions under Gatland.


100% agree! such a shame the Lions is touring NZ , when everyone wants to see England in a three match series vs the world champions, also how come you can say things like that yet I get Banned?
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:06 pm

I'd rather see the lions.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:07 pm

I do not want Hogg at 15 for the lions.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:07 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I'd rather see the lions.

Why? Everyone wants to see the top two teams in the world go head to head.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:08 pm

Obviously not everyone. I want to see the lions.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:08 pm

Can't like rugby much then if you want to watch Gatlandball, again!
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:09 pm

I want to see an impartially selected lions by a coach thats bothered to turn up to all the games.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:11 pm

Rugbyjk wrote:I want to see an impartially selected lions by a coach thats bothered to turn up to all the games.

clap clap clap clap couldn't put it better myself
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:11 pm

If Roberts makes the tour again I'll Turn my back on the Lions this year.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by Rugbyjk on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:11 pm

Cheers TH.

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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 8:14 pm

Shocking Gatland wasn't there, but I guess it's a long way to travel from Cardiff to Twickemham for someone in such an important position after a night out with his mates celebrating a win over Ireland.
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Re: 6N 2017: England vs Scotland (take 2)

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